Hathcock Model 70 Project

Blueoval56

Blueoval56

Captain Bigbars
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 21, 2013
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Canadian Big Sky Country
#1


I've always wanted to build a copy/ close replica of Carlos Hathcock's Model 70 and about a month ago this rifle sort of fell into my lap! As it stands right now it's definitely not a replica by any means but I couldn't pass it up and I figured it would be a great way to kick my but into gear and actually build what I want. A starting point if you will.

The rifle is dated at 1946, which wasn't a year in the batch of rifles that were actually used but doesn't bother me any. It has a standard sporter weight 24" barrel chambered in good 'ol 30 Gov't 06 with decently clean and strong rifling.

The stock seems to have been refinished at some point(looks great) and obviously had a ground to fit recoil pad installed to replace the factory steel butt plate. I also own an all original 1953 Winchester Model 70 30-06 with the original steel butt plate and I am not ashamed to say that recoil pad is a very welcomed modification!

This rifle is a perfect starting point for a project like this, for me anyways, because I won't be destroying any collector value. This rifle was drilled at some point for a side scope mount, then the holes were welded back up. whoever did so did a nice job, but it's still noticeable. The bolt was also jeweled at some point. I own a few un-altered pre-64's, so I've been looking for something that has already been half chewed up to begin with.

It came with the Hi-Lux 8X USMC W.M. Malcom scope and it is very clear. The mounts are a little rough but they are repeatable and seems to be a decent scope. Since I would probably never find an original, this one will do me just fine.

The only things I want to upgrade is the barrel to the original "heavy" contour, get some better scope blocks from Steve Earl, and have the whole thing re-blued or perhaps a different finish.

My biggest question is can a stainless barrel be blued so as to match the rest of the rifle? If the answer to that is no, should I go with a chromoly barrel or stay with stainless and go a different finish route like a matte cerecote of some kind?

This is what I'm aiming to replicate( I know this isn't Hathcock):


Here's some more pics:




















I loaded up a ladder test with Winchester brass, IMR4350, CCI br2's and 200gr SMK's. Started at 49grs and worked up to 56.0gr in 0.5gr increments and this was the result of the test.


I loaded over book max to find what the actual max would be but I didn't really see any pressure signs. The last 4 rounds, 54.5 55.0 55.5 and 56.0 had some very slight stiffness in the bolt lift. After measuring all the bases just above the web those last 4 expanded 0.001" more than the rest so I'm going to assume 54.0gr is max.

Some loaded rounds:



Any ideas you might have would be great or just let me know what ya think!
 
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#2
If I was you, I might look up this guy on ebay and write him and see if he has anymore of these barrels. He sold quite a few, and claims they came from a USMC armorer. Which honestly looking at the barrels, I think he was probably likely telling the truth.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Wi...392204?hash=item465d61a98c:g:VPMAAOSwCGVX~6vg


Model 70's I think original from WRA had the receiver black oxide, and the barrel was blued. The Marine model 70's with the sporter barrels I've seen, like the two documented ones that Ryan has, have all seemed to be original finish. The ones with the replacement target barrels I've seen, have mostly looked like total rebuilds with all metal refinished. But I have only seen 3 or 4 that have claimed to be real. They seem really rare.

If I was building one, I would just re-black oxide the receiver/bolt/trigger housing, and blue the barrel. That seems consistent with the ones that I have seen that seem likely they are real.
 
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#3
You can Cerakote the stainless barrel...a good artist can pretty much replicate any finish. My Hathcock tribute
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/Q4XwrVy.jpg"}[/IMG2]
 
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#4
cplnorton said:
If I was you, I might look up this guy on ebay and write him and see if he has anymore of these barrels. He sold quite a few, and claims they came from a USMC armorer. Which honestly looking at the barrels, I think he was probably likely telling the truth.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Wi...392204?hash=item465d61a98c:g:VPMAAOSwCGVX~6vg


Model 70's I think original from WRA had the receiver black oxide, and the barrel was blued. The Marine model 70's with the sporter barrels I've seen, like the two documented ones that Ryan has, have all seemed to be original finish. The ones with the replacement target barrels I've seen, have mostly looked like total rebuilds with all metal refinished. But I have only seen 3 or 4 that have claimed to be real. They seem really rare.

If I was building one, I would just re-black oxide the receiver/bolt/trigger housing, and blue the barrel. That seems consistent with the ones that I have seen that seem likely they are real.
Click to expand...

That would be a neat way to go but unfortunately I'm up in Canada and getting anything ITAR controlled north of the border is a bit of a nightmare. It could be done with an import service but after import fees, taxes, shipping and the conversion of our very weak dollar I would end up paying close to $500 for that barrel. For that price I can get a new single point cut rifled match barrel made by a local buy and have it custom contoured for no extra price.

good to know about the black oxide finish on the receiver though, I'll definitely try to get that done. Biggest problem for me is that most new barrels, especially match grade, are stainless and I don't think you can blue stainless.

I appreciate the info though!
 
#5
buffalowinter said:
You can Cerakote the stainless barrel...a good artist can pretty much replicate any finish. My Hathcock tribute
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/Q4XwrVy.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Click to expand...

That's a great looking rifle! What's the details on that one?

Im hoping to go the stainless cerakote route and get it as close as I can. I'm going to leave the rubber butt pad and it will still have a jewelled bolt anyway so it's definitely not going to be an exact replica. Just looking to get close!
 
#6
Great project. I just passed down my Win 70 .30-'06 Featherweight to the next generation.

Nothing any great shakes, it is a post '63 push feed with a Bell and Carlson lighter weight sporter stock in forest camo with a Weaver V-16 mounted. Always hit whatever I aimed it at, and served long and hard as a deer rifle.

It and I also took 4th In the 1997 NJ State Sniper Championships, feeding on FGMM 168's. It also delivers an honest and consistent 1MOA at 250yd with 165SGK (48.1gr IMR4064) handloads.

Best fortune with your Carlos rifle.

Greg
 
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#7
You are correct in that stainless cannot be blued as it is. I've read that the only way to do it is to first plate the barrel with a metal that will accept bluing. IIRC, Remington did this with some of their rifles at one time. Can't recall if they were 264 or 7mm Rem mag offhand.
 
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#9
Keep an eye on the CMP Auction Site. These rifles pop up every now and then, not often but they do show up. I got this guy for $501 delivered to my door. It was advertised as missing parts. Yeah it was, it was missing the an action screw and one that held on the trigger guard. I had a few of those hanging around. This one is in 308 and came from the AMU. All it would take is an '06 reamer if one was inclined. I'm not.

Its a Winchester Target and has the clip guide cut into the receiver so it can be used in the HP across the course matches which was my goal for the rifle.

It came with the scope blocks, the sights are Redfield Palma which I also got from the CMP.

DSCN0101.JPG
 
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#10
Very nice rifle. I hope you don't mind but I was able to move my eyes beyond and it looks like you are fortunate to enjoy some beautiful shooting area if perhaps a bit cold.

Sound like you have done some homework already regarding improving the function of your scope. There are some very good posts on the CMP forum that explain making the Malcolm scope a very functional product. Steve Earle blocks and non Chinese mounting hardware are big improvements. If I recall correctly I think the base mount screws are staked and you should follow the procedure for replacing them so that you don't mess the mounts up.

Go at this with a long range attitude. a little investment here and there, enjoy the hunt for parts on Ebay or on various sites, in the end you are going to have a dynamite rifle. Really it already looks like a nice rifle you will just have a rifle more like the one you want.
 
#11
Blueoval 56:
My Hathcock tribute is based on what he considered the "ideal" rifle as discussed in his authorized biography, "White Feather". The rifle is a Winchester M70 in 30-06. The barrel is a "sendero" profile made by Bartlein and installed by Moon. I did all the other work. The rifle is pillar bedded and barrel free-floated in its original stock. It has a Timney trigger and Redfield limited edition 3x9 scope similar to the original scopes used in Vietnam (there are some notable exceptions, but it's not a bad replica and is actually made by Leupold for Redfield). The action and barrel is done in a custom Cerakote mix of od green and graphite black. The bolt and trigger guard are done in graphite black. It shoots around .5 to .75 MOA.
 
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#12
This is a pretty cool thread. As noted BuffaloWinter's rifle is mostly what Gunny Hathcock wanted in a rifle. Not what he was able to get the Marine Corps to adopt.

One huge factor is whether he preferred the controlled round feed of the pre-'64, which he used in VietNam, or the post-'63. An example of which he was given a tribute rifle? Did he prefer the Winchester 70 post-'63 push feed to the Remington 700 SA push feed that the Marine Corps did get? I myself prefer the Winchester. But that is a non-factor.

The Redfield is just a lot more durable in it's solid mounts with internal adjustment than the Unertl in it's external mounts. The external mounts were great for target shooting but not so rugged as to undertake day in/day out operations in the bush. As far as accuracy and quality of glass, the Unertl was pretty hard to beat. Mounts again being the weak point.

Moving forward in RVN, we again had an externally adjusted scope in the Leatherwood ART scope. Note how much more robust the construction is in the mounts. Many #'s of spring counter-pressure vs. the "tappy-light" spring pressure in the Unertl (Fecker) mounts to get the supports to their original position. The Marines tested ithem but didn't adopt them.

Hathcock and a number of others removed the recoil (fore & aft) spring of the Unertl as it had a tendency to slam the scope forward after firing and break the internals.

Moving forward after VN, we found wood warped way too much in hot wet conditions followed by dry conditions. Enter the composite stock. Hatchcock used a wood stock in VN but his tribute rifle was a composite. Funny how we never considered the laminate stocks like the Germans used in WWII to keep warpage to a minimum. I wonder if we can find that pic of him with his tribute rifle?
 
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#13
This one is mine. It might be possible it's real as it came from a Marine officer who served back then, but I don't know how you could ever prove/authenticate one unless you had a document with the serial number on it. But if you go by the books, everything seems right on it. But it's a total rebuild. 1942 dated receiver, with a 56 dated WRA barrel, mismatched bolt, all the metal looks like it's been refnished, and the stock has been beat to crap and then heavily sanded.

If nothing else, it's really a nice representative piece.

But I've tried to find documents on the Marine Model 70's at the archives with the hopes of finding the actual serials, but I find very little on them.

 

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#14
I think this is a pic of him with the rifle he was awarded.
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/modernamericanheroes.files.wordpress.com\/2010\/07\/carlos-hathcock-marine-sniper-21129964.jpg"}[/IMG2]
 
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#17
As I remember from reading Henderson's book many moons ago, GySgt Hathcock deployed to VietNam in the '66-69 time frame. The M40 (wood stock R700 & Redfield) was around but he was VERY familiar with the M70 target rifle as part of the USMC Rifle Team. He did win the Wimbledon Cup with it after all. Those rifles were in the Winchester Marksman stocks with their wide forends and deep grips. Any pictures I have seen, the stocks used overseas were more like hunting stocks. As with Kraig's rifle above, it would have been clip-slotted and while original Win70 Target rifles came with either a Std, heavy or bull barrel, one would assume the rifles sent overseas were former target rifles that had been reworked by the 'Team armorers with new barrels. Again, I would presume the heavy profile (slightly bigger than a varmint profile) was used as a compromise between multiple-round accuracy in the heat and weight, as seen in these pictures.
 

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#18
sirhrmechanic said:
Blueoval... that's gorgeous!

Thanks for posting and keep us informed as the project progresses.

Since when is a sporting rifle barrel ITAR controlled, BTW? I know they added a lot of stuff to ITAR, but I didn't think that would have made the list.

Cheers,

Sirhr
Click to expand...

Thanks Sirhr!

I'm not sure to be honest, all I know is that I need an import permit to get any firearm barrel into Canada. I haven't looked into doing the paper work myself but a good friend has done it and said it was a lengthy process.
 
#19
kraigWY said:
Keep an eye on the CMP Auction Site. These rifles pop up every now and then, not often but they do show up. I got this guy for $501 delivered to my door. It was advertised as missing parts. Yeah it was, it was missing the an action screw and one that held on the trigger guard. I had a few of those hanging around. This one is in 308 and came from the AMU. All it would take is an '06 reamer if one was inclined. I'm not.

Its a Winchester Target and has the clip guide cut into the receiver so it can be used in the HP across the course matches which was my goal for the rifle.

It came with the scope blocks, the sights are Redfield Palma which I also got from the CMP.

DSCN0101.JPG
Click to expand...

That's a very nice rifle! I've seen it proudly displayed on this site a few times. Being in Canada it's a lot tougher to get stuff imported, but for that price it would be a steal even after the exchange rate! I have seen a few Bull guns for sale at various gun shows and foolishly passed up some good ones. Last year I came across a rifle similar to yours but with the bull contour in 300 H&H for $1300(decent price for up here) and I've kicked myself ever since for not grabbing it when I had the chance!
 
#20
pmclaine said:
Very nice rifle. I hope you don't mind but I was able to move my eyes beyond and it looks like you are fortunate to enjoy some beautiful shooting area if perhaps a bit cold.

Sound like you have done some homework already regarding improving the function of your scope. There are some very good posts on the CMP forum that explain making the Malcolm scope a very functional product. Steve Earle blocks and non Chinese mounting hardware are big improvements. If I recall correctly I think the base mount screws are staked and you should follow the procedure for replacing them so that you don't mess the mounts up.

Go at this with a long range attitude. a little investment here and there, enjoy the hunt for parts on Ebay or on various sites, in the end you are going to have a dynamite rifle. Really it already looks like a nice rifle you will just have a rifle more like the one you want.
Click to expand...

Thank you! And, yes, I am extremely fortunate to have the most wonderful private range at my disposal. Just under 1200 yards of room if I stretch it and hills in every direction for natures perfect back stop! The only downsides are that its in the foothills just on the east side of the Rockies and the Chinook winds can get up to 100mph on bad days! I was out yesterday trying to test a few loads at 400 yards but the wind quickly picked up to about 30 gusting 40mph and it was quickly becoming a waste of powder.

Ive read a few posts over on the CMP forums regarding the Hi-Lux and it's been very helpful. I've already replace the main cross bolts with new ones as the originals were as soft as butter. I'm going to get new blocks when I re-barrel.

I'm enjoying the project very much!
 
#21
cplnorton said:
This one is mine. It might be possible it's real as it came from a Marine officer who served back then, but I don't know how you could ever prove/authenticate one unless you had a document with the serial number on it. But if you go by the books, everything seems right on it. But it's a total rebuild. 1942 dated receiver, with a 56 dated WRA barrel, mismatched bolt, all the metal looks like it's been refnished, and the stock has been beat to crap and then heavily sanded.

If nothing else, it's really a nice representative piece.

But I've tried to find documents on the Marine Model 70's at the archives with the hopes of finding the actual serials, but I find very little on them.
Click to expand...

Very nice!!! Sure looks like it could be the real deal to me. I found a list of serial number ranges of the actual model 70's used at one point, I'll try to dig it up and post it.
 
#22
NukeMMC said:
As I remember from reading Henderson's book many moons ago, GySgt Hathcock deployed to VietNam in the '66-69 time frame. The M40 (wood stock R700 & Redfield) was around but he was VERY familiar with the M70 target rifle as part of the USMC Rifle Team. He did win the Wimbledon Cup with it after all. Those rifles were in the Winchester Marksman stocks with their wide forends and deep grips. Any pictures I have seen, the stocks used overseas were more like hunting stocks. As with Kraig's rifle above, it would have been clip-slotted and while original Win70 Target rifles came with either a Std, heavy or bull barrel, one would assume the rifles sent overseas were former target rifles that had been reworked by the 'Team armorers with new barrels. Again, I would presume the heavy profile (slightly bigger than a varmint profile) was used as a compromise between multiple-round accuracy in the heat and weight, as seen in these pictures.
Click to expand...

Those are some great pictures and great info! Thanks for sharing! The pictures will definitely help with the project and anyone else who decides to build a Hathcock tribute rifle.
 
#24
NukeMMC said:
May also want to read this American Rifleman article:
Click to expand...

The actual article:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/3/21/the-military-model-70/

I would say it is significant when a Marine Corps officer (Jim Land) goes out and procures a couple hundred of them from Rec Services to use specifically for sniping. I would go on to say it is significant if one of your best snipers used it to great extent Gotta love rag-writers. Their opinion tops everybody else's, right or wrong. I also believe they downplayed sniping in general in that article. IMO, that article isn't much worth the read as it's half regurgitated myth, half regurgitated non-relevant statistics. One reason I changed magazine choices when I renewed my NRA membership.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread....:)
 
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#25
Blueoval56 said:
Thank you! And, yes, I am extremely fortunate to have the most wonderful private range at my disposal. Just under 1200 yards of room if I stretch it and hills in every direction for natures perfect back stop! The only downsides are that its in the foothills just on the east side of the Rockies and the Chinook winds can get up to 100mph on bad days! I was out yesterday trying to test a few loads at 400 yards but the wind quickly picked up to about 30 gusting 40mph and it was quickly becoming a waste of powder.

Ive read a few posts over on the CMP forums regarding the Hi-Lux and it's been very helpful. I've already replace the main cross bolts with new ones as the originals were as soft as butter. I'm going to get new blocks when I re-barrel.

I'm enjoying the project very much!
Click to expand...

Awesome to hear/see when someone has their shit together. You sir have your shit together.
 
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#27
buffalowinter said:
You can Cerakote the stainless barrel...a good artist can pretty much replicate any finish. My Hathcock tribute
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/Q4XwrVy.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Click to expand...

Thats perfect! I have a correct 70 in my safe I have wanted to do something with but reluctant to go the Unertl route as I dont think its practical as a shooter but a cool conversation peice.

I have not uncovered any evidence that Redfields were used/issued on the 70's but I feel its a more modern/practical scope.

Love the way your build turned out. Considering same but with an HTG stock. I guess that would be an M40/70 type hybrid.
 
#28
Anchor Zero Six said:
Thats perfect! I have a correct 70 in my safe I have wanted to do something with but reluctant to go the Unertl route as I dont think its practical as a shooter but a cool conversation peice.

I have not uncovered any evidence that Redfields were used/issued on the 70's but I feel its a more modern/practical scope.

Love the way your build turned out. Considering same but with an HTG stock. I guess that would be an M40/70 type hybrid.
Click to expand...

or as noted above that would be Gunny Hathcocks ideal rifle if given his build parameters which is what RTE provided him with as a sign of respect.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/modernamericanheroes.files.wordpress.com\/2010\/07\/carlos-hathcock-marine-sniper-21129964.jpg"}[/IMG2]

You and Gunny Hathcock are of like mind. That's probably the nicest thing I ever said to another dude.

Loving the litefighter by the way.
 
#29
Lol thats hillarious!

Guess I should have read the thread vs drooling at the pics.

Anyone here familiar with the Leatherwood M40 repro scope?

Their site states the BDC is set up for 168 gr 308/7.62 (M118?). Any guesses as to the MV they are assuming to use with that?

Figure if I know the MV I could tweak 06 handloads to match.
 
#30
The Unertl is plenty practical as long as practical means keeping it out of the rain and treating it kind of like a fragile flower....
P8187019_zpscdlphb5p.jpg


at least with the 03 when the scope went "out of service" the Marine had his leaf/blade sights to keep the gun running. In the case of the 70 the scope was the mission. Im sure the guys that fielded a Unertl sacrificed their own comfort to ensure the readiness of the scope - falling off the cliff better to sacrifice your body than break the scope, when its raining out who got the shelter? The marine or the scope? I think likely the scope.

The Redfield is a great improvement as far as survivability goes.....
PB116536_zpssztzyzja.jpg


but what it lacks again just leaves me to pile more respect on the guys that carried them. The reticle, even the Accurange stadia, and capped turrets, added to combat, means you really had to be good with snapshot holds. I doubt very often these guys actually got a chance to take a shot at whatever there zero was set at and they were forced to take shots holding with no real reference and yet - they did it!

Im just a mere human so for me practical became a Weaver T10.....
[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":" photo PC206625_zps1k0dfhv8.jpg","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","height":"349","width":"620","src":"http:\/\/i1005.photobucket.com\/albums\/af178\/pmclaine\/PC206625_zps1k0dfhv8.jpg"}[/IMG2]

The turrets are fantastic, I think it has a bit better survivability than the Unertl perhaps a little less rugged than the Redfield but still able to make through most walks in the woods.

On a plus side the USMC second Recon used the T10 for a time on some early A1s so it fits in with the lineage if not proven to be historically accurate.
 
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#31
Anchor Zero Six said:
Lol thats hillarious!

Guess I should have read the thread vs drooling at the pics.

Anyone here familiar with the Leatherwood M40 repro scope?

Their site states the BDC is set up for 168 gr 308/7.62 (M118?). Any guesses as to the MV they are assuming to use with that?

Figure if I know the MV I could tweak 06 handloads to match.
Click to expand...

Over at www.m40rifle.com there are quite a few builds that use the Leatherwood and the Leupold repros. Those that have mounted them are plenty satisfied. The historical minded kind of feel they should have just used a period Redfield bought off Ebay.

I understand Leupold may have a few of the 40 repros tucked away unadvertized but for sale if you ask. That may be of interest to you as I think they warranty them like their other products.

Im intending to build a .223 M40 and I want to send my Redfield to a company in the west that will put a mil dot reticle in it. I think that will give me the best of both worlds - some historical cred but a scope that I can better make holds with.
 
#32
Considered a real one but again even a cheap ($450.00) modern scope I feel is better than an original 60's era scope. The ranging peice was plastic and many distort over the years. Leatherwood is etched glass.

I want a shooter over a conversation peice and figure this will also serve as my hunting rifle.
 
#33
Anchor Zero Six said:
Considered a real one but again even a cheap ($450.00) modern scope I feel is better than an original 60's era scope. The ranging peice was plastic and many distort over the years. Leatherwood is etched glass.

I want a shooter over a conversation peice and figure this will also serve as my hunting rifle.
Click to expand...

and that is the exact reason those that bought them appreciate them.

SWFA was selling a 40 repro but theirs may have been either the Leatherwood or Leupold product.

Check out that M40 rifle site there are some amazing reference pieces their and guys with doctorates in Marine snipers/M40 bend over backwards to provide info.
 
#35
You know it's funny how just a simple duplex reticle, like what you find in most scopes can be a real help in ranging and holding. That is without having to go with the points on a special reticle.

Since, most of these run in the 3x-9x I'll give a rundown of what I do. First I get the actual size the reticle is on 3x, 6x and 9x. Write that down in your book, It's now part of your dope.
I then zero the rifle on the top point above the crosshair at the lowest power. Sometimes 2 moa above that point. This gives you the upper and lower crosshair bars for holds. If you turn the power to 6x from 3x you should have half the distance. And whatever the difference is between 3x and 9x, 1/3rd or ?. Practice shooting half the skinny bar and half of the large bar. If you like keeping your scope up at 9x, this will come in handy. Also, note the difference in elevation/windage from the points on a duplex to where it fully widens out to the thick part of the crosshair. More "distances" you can use.

FWIW, an FFP reticle is really handy only when you have a large and well gradiated reticle. For simpler reticles like the duplex, they aren't as flexible. This is actually where a SFP reticle is better IMO. So if you have a Redfield "look alike" but don't want to go the extra bucks to get the historical reticle type, that's a way to make your scope more useable.
 
#36
Agree sandwarrior there was a thread on old old hide many moons ago regarding this. Only thing I would add is I forgo the 6X as I dont think its precise. Are you at 6 or are you at 5.75 or 6.25? Probably overthinking this but I like to use the "stops" at each end of the power range in this application.

Burris back in the day and I think Loopy too had the substention dimensions in their literature. Dont think current offerings include that but its been 10+ years since I purchased either aside from a 2nd hand scout scope.
 
#37
Anchor six,.
So must lost good information lost in the haze of the past on this site.
I like the idea of using the solid stops on each end of the power ring. Certainly the way to go for speed.
​​​​​​The 6X is there as a separate reference for a longer range shot. The difference between 3X-9X isn't that much untill you get out a ways.
 
#38
Beautiful build. If you decide that you wanted an original Unertl, they are out there and available. They are fragile and the external rings may or may not offer as fine adjustments for windage and elevation. They are a little tedious to adjust but have very clear glass and a very fine cross hair recticle. I think the GSgt used the 10x but the 20x looks just like it. They were running about $800 for a nice one with rings a few years ago. Unless you plan to go humping through the boonies, the fragile nature of the old optic is not much of an issue.

Irish
 
#39
JG26_Irish said:
Beautiful build. If you decide that you wanted an original Unertl, they are out there and available. They are fragile and the external rings may or may not offer as fine adjustments for windage and elevation. They are a little tedious to adjust but have very clear glass and a very fine cross hair recticle. I think the GSgt used the 10x but the 20x looks just like it. They were running about $800 for a nice one with rings a few years ago. Unless you plan to go humping through the boonies, the fragile nature of the old optic is not much of an issue.

Irish
Click to expand...

It depends on the mounts. Some of them are set up at 1/8th moa adjustments. Way too fine for a sniper scope, IMO. Great for fine adjustment on a target scope.
 
#43
Lots of posts I haven't come back to as of late. Much as I described with the duplex, the mildot gives a lot of points to hold off of without ever having to change powers. If one was to follow the change of power procedures described above, it gives an incredible latitude to the scopes use. You just need the time to figure out a firing solution with the changes you make.
 
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