Rifle Scopes Help with 1-6 or 1-8 for 16" 308 AR

C_R_Slacker · Jun 3, 2018

So I'm going to be finishing up my 16" 308 AR soon and I need to get glass. I've looked and researched and settled on a burris xtrii or trijicon accupower unless someone recommends something else.

Price needs to be $1,200 or less. Daylight bright illumination isn't a deal breaker but would be nice. I'm more interested in how it shoots on 8x than on 1x, so I want a reticle that has a fine aiming point and is mil or moa based as opposed to a bdc. I also really want an exposed elevation turret. Don't care if the windage is capped or not.

I know the burris is a bdc, but it does have mil wind holds and I tend to dial elevation and hold wind so I'm ok with it even though I wish it had mil hashes on the elevation too. I know the trijicon reticle is a bit coarse, but I really like all the other aspects of the reticle, so I'm ok with it too.

Is there anything else I'm missing in the 1-6 or 1-8 world that fits what I want? I've thought about a pstii to save some money, but I'm not sure about it. I wish I could combine the Burris and trijicon reticles and it would be perfect.

VegasHKShooter · Jun 4, 2018

I had the Burris XTRII 1-8 and it’s a fantastic scope. I used it on both my .308 as well as my small frame AR’s. I have nothing but positive things to say about the scope.
Another option would be a pre owned Vortex Razor 1-6. You can find them all day at your price point. Excellent glass, and a very usable mil or MOA reticle. They are SFP, but in a 1-6, I don’t see that as a negative. They are only a 1-6, but I had no problems engaging out to 600-650 with a 6X. Just a suggestion to look at. Either is a fantastic scope.

gr8fuldoug · Jun 4, 2018

Just had a buddy who is is a ballistics analyst for the NYPD run the new Athlon Optics Cronus BTR 1-6x24 SFP - ATSR2 SFP IR MOA through it's paces and he was blown away at the quality. This is a great scope, in your price range and IMO a fantastic choice

longshot2000 · Jun 5, 2018

Let me see... I love the newer 1-6x and 1-8x scopes. My go-to scope in that range that does not break the bank is the Nightforce NX8, but it is $500 more than your budget. Next would be the Accupower 1-8x. Very nice optic and has been used and abused in the field.

It is always easy to talk about what is better, and some that come to mind are even more expensive than the NX8. The Burris is a good choice, and as many will point out, "this is not like other Burris scopes..." I have had good luck. But, it is a Burris scope, and that brings me back to the Accupower.

Doug points out Athlon. You either are or are not a fan. I am not. Lots of smart shooters here swear by Athlon. I am sure they are not wrong. It is just a niche brand. Outside of this forum, you almost never hear of Athlon.

C_R_Slacker · Jun 5, 2018

I've looked through an accupower and thought the reticle was a little coarse. On paper it's .2 mil I believe. But...the gun it's going on isn't a truly precision, long range rig, so it may be a non-issue. After using an accupower, do you feel the reticle thickness holds you back for shooting 2+ moa targets out to 600 yards or so?

CSTactical · Jun 5, 2018

@C_R_Slacker my favorite LPV under $1,500 is still the Vortex Razor Gen II with the JM-1 reticle, especially now that they trimmer a little bit of weight.
Pros: Very clear glass with little edge distortion, true 1x, a generous eye box, durable, daytime bright and it doesn't break the bank.
Cons: It's still a little heavy compared to say the Nightforce NX8 or Kahles K16i but within a half ounce of the ATACR 1-8.
Neutral: It's SFP and the typical Vortex Razor Bronzish color (We can Cerakote it)

ForgeValley · Jun 5, 2018

I put a primary arms platinum 1-8 with ACSS reticle on my 7.62 AR and really like it. The ACSS is a bdc, but I am pretty sure they have a mil version.

C_R_Slacker · Jun 5, 2018

CSTactical said:
@C_R_Slacker my favorite LPV under $1,500 is still the Vortex Razor Gen II with the JM-1 reticle, especially now that they trimmer a little bit of weight.
Pros: Very clear glass with little edge distortion, true 1x, a generous eye box, durable, daytime bright and it doesn't break the bank.
Cons: It's still a little heavy compared to say the Nightforce NX8 or Kahles K16i but within a half ounce of the ATACR 1-8.
Neutral: It's SFP and the typical Vortex Razor Bronzish color (We can Cerakote it)

How do you feel about running this scope with the elevation turret uncapped? That's the one thing I am unsure of about this scope (or the pstii of I want to go cheaper)? I would really like to have an exposed elevation turret if I could.

skatz11 · Jun 5, 2018

If money was no object and your se on1-8 the ATACR is amazing. Got to handle one the other week.

For value and max magnifaction on a 308 I would have to look at the Burris 1-8 or the Primary Arms Platinum. They’re both LOW Japan produced scopes.

All of that being said the Razor Gen2 with JM1 is still my go to for 3gun, and it’s an incredible scope.

CSTactical · Jun 5, 2018

C_R_Slacker said:
How do you feel about running this scope with the elevation turret uncapped? That's the one thing I am unsure of about this scope (or the pstii of I want to go cheaper)? I would really like to have an exposed elevation turret if I could.

I've never thought about doing that as I would use the JM-1 reticle to hold for elevation.

C_R_Slacker · Jun 5, 2018

I've only looked through one of these scopes, the accupower, all my other comparisons are on paper. I like the Burris and vortex reticles because they seem to have the finest aiming dots or crosshairs of all the LPV's I've looked at. The accupower is a little more coarse, and everything else is an moa or more aiming point which I think is more than I want. If the nx8 had a finer aiming point, I would just save longer and get it because I love the size and weight.

That being said, is a 1-1.5 moa aiming point really that detrimental to shooting 2+ moa sized steel at 600? On paper it seems like it would be a hindrance, but is it really in practice? I've never used one, so I am just going on speculation.

CSTactical · Jun 5, 2018

This is an older review on the original 1-6 Razor Gen II but it's a good one IMO

Stoweit · Jun 5, 2018

I have a Razor gen 2 1-6 with JM-1 reticle with Areo ul Mount, sold gun it was on. Looking for $900.00 for both shipped. PM me if your interested.

Dank27 · Jun 5, 2018

I just got a trijicon 1-8x28 ffp mil/mil and I love it

koshkin · Jun 5, 2018

You kinda need to decide if you want a FFP or SFP scope.

If you want a 1-8x FFP, your best options are Burris XTR II and PA Platinum. I am still waiting for the new Griffin Mil reticle that PA is coming out with. It looked very interesting. Until then, XTR II is sorta my default recommendaiton in this category.

If you prefer SFP, then there are several good options, Vortex Razor Gen 2e being somewhere near the top of the list.

ILya

C_R_Slacker · Jun 5, 2018

koshkin said:
You kinda need to decide if you want a FFP or SFP scope.

If you want a 1-8x FFP, your best options are Burris XTR II and PA Platinum. I am still waiting for the new Griffin Mil reticle that PA is coming out with. It looked very interesting. Until then, XTR II is sorta my default recommendaiton in this category.

If you prefer SFP, then there are several good options, Vortex Razor Gen 2e being somewhere near the top of the list.

ILya

1st vs 2nd doesn't matter to me in a LPV. Like I said in the original post, I'm more interested in what the reticle looks like on 6-8 power than on 1.

I saw in another thread that you don't care too much for the accupower 1-8. Is it the reticle or something else about it?

koshkin · Jun 5, 2018

C_R_Slacker said:
1st vs 2nd doesn't matter to me in a LPV. Like I said in the original post, I'm more interested in what the reticle looks like on 6-8 power than on 1.

I saw in another thread that you don't care too much for the accupower 1-8. Is it the reticle or something else about it?

It is a respectable scope, but I do not like the reticle too much, especially at low power. At high power it works fine.

ILya

schlaiek · Jun 5, 2018

Razor2 gets my vote, tough I haven't had an opportunity to play with the new NFs.

VegasHKShooter · Jun 6, 2018

If you are willing to up your budget, the NX8 is the best scope out there in that price range, or even close. It checks every box. It’s fantastic on 1X, truly red dot fast, mil reticle, FFP, lightweight, nuclear daylight bright, smaller than older 1-4’s. It’s the whole package. I have read some folks complaining that the reticle is too big at 1moa. I say “B.S.” When you get out and actually shoot the scope, it’s not too big. I have shot mine out past 625yds, and it allows you to make hits all day. If you have the gun, and the skill, the NF NX8 is NOT going to hold you back. I sold my Razor 1-6 when I got my NX8, it’s that good.
I was only responding to the scopes in the price point you asked about in your O.P. If you have some flexibility, the NX8 all day!!

C_R_Slacker · Jun 6, 2018

Thanks, the reticle size was a concern about the nx8 and other scopes. That's why I was asking for first-hand knowledge. It's one thing to analyze things on paper, but sometimes when you actually use something it's not what you thought it would be. I'm going to try to find these scopes in a store somewhere so I can see them in person. Unfortunately there isn't anywhere less than two hours from me that carries high end optics.

mpk1996 · Jun 6, 2018

yeah, 1-8x best scope for the money is the nx8. if that is to high a budget, grab a 1-6 vortex razor II. as far as dialing goes (exposed turrets) I think it is overrated at this mag range and cal choice. At that distance and mag level I think you are over thinking the need to dial. its not an optic to think you are going to shoot 1/2 moa plates at 800 yds with. If you want to do that, look at something in a 3-15x class scope which will have turrets that you can dial. You will have no problem using hold over (in either a BCD or mil/moa based reticle) at reasonable size targets are reasonable range in a 308 gas gun. If you end up with a BDC reticle, just spend a little bit of time to figure out what each line actually represents in your rifle/ammo combo (the Strelok ballistics app is a great help as a starting point).

Luke · Jun 6, 2018

I have the Razor Gen2 1-6x on an AR-15 and love it. Haven't used a Nightforce, however. This deal would be hard to beat:

Stoweit said:
I have a Razor gen 2 1-6 with JM-1 reticle with Areo ul Mount, sold gun it was on. Looking for $900.00 for both shipped. PM me if your interested.

C_R_Slacker · Jun 6, 2018

mpk1996 said:
as far as dialing goes (exposed turrets) I think it is overrated at this mag range and cal choice. At that distance and mag level I think you are over thinking the need to dial.

Very possible, haha. I do overthink things a lot. But I've never used a LPV, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can before I drop $1,000+ on one.

VegasHKShooter · Jun 6, 2018

Agree about dialing etc. For what we’re doing here with 5.56 and LPV’s, we are trying to put bullets on bad things quickly in the 100-400yd range. Granted, we can, and I have taken my 5.56 out to 650yds, but being realistic, the round is out of gas. In my line of work (LEO), it’s going to be very difficult for me to articulate shooting someone at over 200/300 yards. Articulating how or why someone was a deadly force threat at that distance is going to be VERY few and far between. Not saying never, just saying the VAST majority of shooting situations that civilian law enforcement are involved in are going to be close (50 yds or less). Anyway, I’m getting off topic, but dialing with these scopes is really not the most likely use. With a 50/200 zero, impacts will be within an acceptable area from contact distance out to approx 250 yds. For those uses, these LPV’s are incredible.

ThunderRun · Jun 7, 2018

Here's my two cents... On 1-6x or 1-8x scopes, the primary purpose for me is the ability to rapidly engage targets while having a bit of magnification for those mid range shots (300-600 yards). Eye relief is the most important thing to me in these set ups. Can I increase magnifications through the whole range without my cheek weld shifting? How forgiving is the eye box? The Cronus 1-6x fits the bill without having the fisheye effect.

As for BDC reticles, don't consider them caliber or load specific, use Strelok Pro and see what your substensions are. On the Cronus 1-6x with the ATSR2 reticle, you can get precise holds without obscuring the target, as well as wind compensation.

longshot2000 · Jun 7, 2018

CavScout85 said:
I put a primary arms platinum 1-8 with ACSS reticle on my 7.62 AR and really like it. The ACSS is a bdc, but I am pretty sure they have a mil version.

Yes, good point. I forgot about this one.

steve123 · Jun 7, 2018

I had to have a "1-8" and I wanted daylight bright illume, I also wanted a mil reticle. On a budget I had pretty much decided $1100 was enough money to be spent.

Reading Ilya's review on the Burris XTR2 gave me the info I was looking for, plus when asked here on the Hide people liked the scope for the money.

I got the FFP version. Usually in this type of scope I'd pick a SFP but Mike from CS tactical explained to me that once in a while I might want to adjust the FOV and magnification for certain stages thus keeping the sub-tensions correct for holdoffs and holdovers which I hadn't considered. Before on a SFP I'd just stay on 1x for close stuff or 6x for far stuff where the sub-tensions were correct.

At first I was unsure but I like the 10-11 mil wide big circle for quick shooting on 1x, and it's plenty bright on a nice day, the .1 mil center dot though is not visible pn 1x which turned out to be fine, I thought I would care but I found I don't need to see it for close shooting at 1x. Discovered was the big circle is the size of the IPSC A zone around 15-20Y which I think is neat so I was bracketing vs using a fine aim point like a RD.
At 1.5x the center dot begins to be visible and by 4x it's usable, by 8x time is when the center dot really is nice.

I'd prefer a true mil holdover reticle vs BDC but I'm within .1 mil with my current 70 grain reloads with the BDC so I'm good.

The quality of the scope is fine, no complaints, and the glass is pretty good. If I were to nitpick, and it's just a thing for me, is I'd like adjustable parallax and I've got my reasons.

Yerman · Jun 7, 2018

I've got an SWFA for sale. It's got great glass!

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...prices-include-shipping.6888324/#post-7083202

ldunnmobile · Jun 7, 2018

I've had a Burris XTR II 1-8, Kahles K16i, Minox ZP8 and a S&B 1-8.

I still have the Burris.

C_R_Slacker · Jun 7, 2018

ldunnmobile said:
I've had a Burris XTR II 1-8, Kahles K16i, Minox ZP8 and a S&B 1-8.

I still have the Burris.

Wow, that says a lot

Powdermonkey4 · Jun 8, 2018

ldunnmobile said:
I've had a Burris XTR II 1-8, Kahles K16i, Minox ZP8 and a S&B 1-8.

I still have the Burris.

You can’t throw that out there without reasons why.

mpk1996 · Jun 8, 2018

as far as BDC vs MIL/MOA reticle, I found the MIL reticle to be very slow. I had a vortex razor 1-6x with the JM1 BDC reticle and like it. I also had a bunch of Kahles k624 scopes and really like the Kahles glass so I sold my vortex and got the Kahles k16 with the SM1 reticle. While the glass and FOV was awesome on that scope and on 1x everything was fine, I found that in a mult gun comp at "long" range (200-400yds) the SM1 reticle was very slow. Each shot would recoil the reticle off the tgt and it takes more time to count and see say 2.3 mils than to just run the BDC. At only 6x the hash marks for .5/1.0 mils are pretty close and it was just plain slower. I had been shooting more PRS matches and thought the .5/1.0 mil reticle would be more precise, therefor faster overall, but it was not. So, I sold my kahles and went back to a vortex with JM1 reticle since kahles doesn't offer a BDC. I think in this class scope, speed matters and frankly at the given range and target size a BDC is just better

Primus · Jun 10, 2018

At that price point, the Razor gen 2 is the only option. Everything else either built like shit or not daylight bright. I have owned them all and unless you get lucky finding an old S&B shortdot for $1000 in good condition, nothing else is worth the money at that price point.

Personally, I would save up the cash and get a NX8. The 1-6 Gen is getting long in the tooth and will not retain its value once they come out with newer models / better features.

C_R_Slacker · Jun 10, 2018

Primus said:
Personally, I would save up the cash and get a NX8.

I may be leaning this way now. Unless I happen to find a great deal on something else in the meantime, I'll just move my LRHS and MRO back and forth among three guns until I save more cash.

Birddog6424 · Jun 11, 2018

The Burris 1-8 is pretty hard to beat at it's price point. I see a lot of more expensive options and people saying you should bump your budget. But I've compared a lot of those and quite frankly, I don't see where some of them are worth the extra coin.

Glass is good on the Burris. I've run mine to 900 yards no issues. It's made by LOW in Japan, has a 34mm tube, capped or uncapped turrets, true zero stop, true 1x with no fish eye, FFP or SFP, mil turrets, daylight bright illumination, and unconditional lifetime warranty. I run this in 3 gun and beat the hell out of it, never broken one in 4 years of abuse. I can see the drawback if you must have a mil reticle, as the Burris has mil windage but BDC elevation (which I personally really like). But you can always cap windage and leave the exposed turret on elevation and dial for it. If you are running it through rapid transitions, stick with BDC.

If you want to shave ounces, or want something really compact, I would agree the NX8 is a great choice. But feature for feature, quality and durability, the Burris punches above it's weight class and compares very well to more expensive scopes.

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Rifle Scopes Help with 1-6 or 1-8 for 16" 308 AR

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