Where are the "Americans"?

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

The only "Americans" on my roof today have been the assistant project manager from the roofing company and a guy from an HVAC outfit to hook up the bathroom fan out and through.

The people who are actually doing the roofing aren't licensed, aren't accountable to anyone but their coyote, and are in a position to make a merry fucking mess out of everything. And now the token roofing Gringo just informed me that he has to leave and I get to supervise.

The only things I got going for me right now is a killer command of Spanish and a surly fuckin' disposition.

diverdon · Jun 4, 2018

I just had a new roof put on. 100% American crew and a great job. It was not the cheapest quote.

2ndamendfan · Jun 4, 2018

Getting a roof in a few weeks. One of my customers is a roofer, just him a any help he can find. He will tell you (as we know) hard workers are hard to find. There might be cheaper out there but the loss of a great customer is not worth it so what he charges is what he charges. He did my grandpas home last year. Was the only one who would come out (family did not know I had a contact). Grandpas house is small and no one would even stop and bid it. He did my uncle's a few weeks ago and my uncle is happy.

2ndamendfan · Jun 4, 2018

I would be curious what everyone is paying. I know mine will be in the area of 11k, That is complete tear off. Neighbor was quoted over 12k for his so he did a cover up for 9k.

Nik H · Jun 4, 2018

2ndamendfan said:
I would be curious what everyone is paying. I know mine will be in the area of 11k, That is complete tear off. Neighbor was quoted over 12k for his so he did a cover up for 9k.

Price is very dependent on the complexity of your roof and on the materials you select.

I have a bow roof which requires staging and I used architectural grade shingles which are 2X the cost of regular asphalt shingles....don't ask what it cost. I cry every time I think about it. They were all American as well other than the people cleaning up the mess.

diverdon · Jun 4, 2018

2600 square simple roof, with tariff, 11,600 with GAF shingles.

2ndamendfan · Jun 4, 2018

Nik H said:
Price is very dependent on the complexity of your roof and on the materials you select.

I have a bow roof which requires staging and I used architectural grade shingles which are 2X the cost of regular asphalt shingles....don't ask what it cost. I cry every time I think about it

True, I will find out how many "square" mine is. Mine is pretty simple with a pretty shallow pitch so no shit I was a little shocked. I was figuring 7 -8k.

2ndamendfan · Jun 4, 2018

diverdon said:
2600 square simple roof, with tariff, 11,600 with GAF shingles.

That should be very close to mine. So in the ball park at least.

mdmp5 · Jun 4, 2018

We as a country have become accustomed and dependent on cheaper labor and materials. The mainstream media is chastising Trump for imposing tariffs on other countries, and they are calling him dumb because he doesn't understand that the consumer will end up paying more. Well, that is exactly what is going to happen and he does know this. What it will ultimately do over time, is reset things and make the economy adjust to domestic suppliers again. It's not painless at all, but anyone who thinks there is a painless way of doing this is delusional.

FS1 · Jun 4, 2018

A Florida tile roof replace = 40-50 grand.

Nik H · Jun 4, 2018

2ndamendfan said:
True, I will find out how many "square" mine is. Mine is pretty simple with a pretty shallow pitch so no shit I was a little shocked. I was figuring 7 -8k.

The standard asphalt materials are ~$24 for 33 square feet. Then there is the water barrier, nails, etc. Materials should be ~$3,500 for a standard roof. Labor is the cost

W54/XM-388 · Jun 4, 2018

I guess I'm in for a big shock when I need mine replaced.
I had mine done back in 2001, a smaller average house and the total cost back then was $3k

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

About $15K here for a 2,400 sf shallow-pitched main roof, plus a complete tear-down on a two-car garage with GAF 30-year asphalt and flashing. So far we're a dozen pieces of additional plywood in at about $50 per.

Maggot · Jun 4, 2018

"Where are the "Americans"?

Sitting at the trailer waiting for the welfare check to show up. Jeezzzz

Hope the break in the rain holds for ya.

RNWRKNP · Jun 4, 2018

2200sqft, $8,300 with a connection and collecting on a favor. All Mexican crew and Spanish comes in handy come time to tell them to pick up their lunch trash along with their cigarette butts out of the landscaping?

RNWRKNP · Jun 4, 2018

Veer_G said:
About $15K here for a 2,400 sf shallow-pitched main roof, plus a complete tear-down on a two-car garage with GAF 30-year asphalt and flashing. So far we're a dozen pieces of additional plywood in at about $50 per.

5 ply CDX or OSB? Painful I know but pays dividends down stream.

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

RNWRKNP said:
2200sqft, $8,300 with a connection and collecting on a favor. All Mexican crew and Spanish comes in handy come time to tell them to pick up their lunch trash along with their cigarette butts out of the landscaping?

Jodidas colillas de puta madre por todas partes de mi jardín ... ¡ coño !

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

RNWRKNP said:
5 ply CDX or OSB? Painful I know but pays dividends down stream.

I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't eyeball the sheathing as it was going up the ladder. Figure on lowest common denominator shit, I imagine.

RNWRKNP · Jun 4, 2018

Veer_G said:
Jodidas colillas de puta madre por todas partes de mi jardín ... ¡ coño !

Exactly! I no me quero oir que usted yorando. Lavante tu vestido I bete a trabajar! Butchered the spelling I know?

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

RNWRKNP said:
Exactly! I no me quero oir que usted yorando. Lavante tu vestido I bete a trabajar! Butchered the spelling I know?

It's okay. I spell for a living, in a few languages, even.

RNWRKNP · Jun 4, 2018

Veer_G said:
It's okay. I spell for a living, in a few languages, even.

Out of curiosity, how many do you speak amigo?

Deleted member 113831 · Jun 4, 2018

Veer_G said:
Jodidas colillas de puta madre por todas partes de mi jardín ... ¡ coño !

That's not Mexican. It's Puerto Rican.

Redmanss · Jun 4, 2018

The two times I had a roof redone, it was 100% American labor. That's because it was 100% my labor. I don't pay anyone to do anything I can do myself.

Don't sell a Hispanic crew short though, I've watched some run a nail gun that sounds like Rob Leatham running a stage.

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

Skookum said:
That's not Mexican. It's Puerto Rican.

¡ Qué te jodas, puto !

RNWRKNP · Jun 4, 2018

Whites boys who are capable of working on a roof in our heat are damn few now? Gentleman from across the border that I taught how to frame are running things now.

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

Redmanss said:
The two times I had a roof redone, it was 100% American labor. That's because it was 100% my labor. I don't pay anyone to do anything I can do myself.

Don't sell a Hispanic crew short though, I've watched some run a nail gun that sounds like Rob Leatham running a stage.

Nope. The problem is that the roofing company employs somebody who employs the crew. You get a break in the chain and have to depend upon them knowing their shit.

2ndamendfan · Jun 4, 2018

W54/XM-388 said:
I guess I'm in for a big shock when I need mine replaced.
I had mine done back in 2001, a smaller average house and the total cost back then was $3k

Grandpa's was $3500 last year. about 800 square feet. small home from WWII. Garage is detached and about 15 years newer than the house so they are on alternating cycles. It too is about 800 sqft. So would have been about $7000 to do both at the same time.

RNWRKNP · Jun 4, 2018

Veer_G said:
Nope. The problem is that the roofing company employs somebody who employs the crew. You get a break in the chain and have to depend upon them knowing their shit.

Fortunately you know the language and can ask question. Regular Joe doesn’t have that luxury....from memory you have some construction back ground?

RNWRKNP · Jun 4, 2018

Redmanss said:
The two times I had a roof redone, it was 100% American labor. That's because it was 100% my labor. I don't pay anyone to do anything I can do myself.

Don't sell a Hispanic crew short though, I've watched some run a nail gun that sounds like Rob Leatham running a stage.

The Hitachi double tap!

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

RNWRKNP said:
Fortunately you know the language and can ask question. Regular Joe doesn’t have that luxury....from memory you have some construction back ground?

I did some day labor in a few trades way back in the day, but not hardcore stuff like roofing or framing.

MtnCreek · Jun 4, 2018

Veer_G said:
Nope. The problem is that the roofing company employs somebody who employs the crew. You get a break in the chain and have to depend upon them knowing their shit.

I'd get lien waivers from the sub and supplier before paying. They sound like crooks.

RNWRKNP · Jun 4, 2018

Exactly this^^^^^

pmclaine · Jun 4, 2018

When I was a kid only Daddy warbucks had house cleaning staff and gardeners.

Ever notice now the Dodge Caravan driving through the neighborhood from which two ladies exit mop buckets in hand or the landscaping trailer that slams down its ramp on Saturday at 0700 and unleashes a swarm of mowers and weed whackers.

and what do you really get for this convienience?

One friend I know stated she cleaned after the cleaners because they didnt do the job she wanted.

Going out and inventing the cure for cancer now that you dont have to cut your lawn or sitting around getting fat and lazy?

Kids - how you liking those summer lawn cutting/paperboy jobs where you learned honest work means money in your pocket?

You gain nothing through this. You actually lose.

The illegal labor you hire gets to work under the table most times and on the back end is also filing for EIC credit.

You pay him with your wallet and your taxes.

While from you the government has created two working parents which effectively doubled tax takings when the stay at home parent became a worker.

Who is the slave?

Things dont happen until someone decides on a reason to make them happen.

The cheap labor/products economy goes against everything that the pols claim to be for - living wages, family, the environment.

It harms each of those and more ask yourself "Than why are they doing it?"

Its not for you thats for sure.

Deleted member 113831 · Jun 4, 2018

Veer_G said:
¡ Qué te jodas, puto !

No mamas buey! Callete o te meto la putisa!

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

Skookum said:
No mamas buey! Callete o te meto la putisa!

It's "no mames," Señor Analfabeto. And then "cállate," and "putiza," but you don't really mean to threaten me, do you?

Redmanss · Jun 4, 2018

I despise shitty and shady contractors. I won't even try to give suggestions on that, deferring to other members here who have a lot more experience in that corner. I'll just say I've never had to deal with them myself because I'm a stickler for researching companies before signing off on work, my ex though was an idiot slut and best I could tell would take the one who would let her suck their cock for a discount. She's an ex for good reason, the games whores play while one is away...

Watch for them scarring the shingles in the heat. Good companies won't do a roof in the hot sun, shitty ones who just want your money will walk all over 120°F asphalt shingles like it's their bitch.

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

Redmanss said:
I despise shitty and shady contractors. I won't even try to give suggestions on that, deferring to other members here who have a lot more experience in that corner. I'll just say I've never had to deal with them myself because I'm a stickler for researching companies before signing off on work, my ex though was an idiot slut and best I could tell would take the one who would let her suck their cock for a discount. She's an ex for good reason, the games whores play while one is away...

Watch for them scarring the shingles in the heat. Good companies won't do a roof in the hot sun, shitty ones who just want your money will walk all over 120°F asphalt shingles like it's their bitch.

It's 70º today, we're good.

QuickNDirty · Jun 4, 2018

I've never been on a roof that was room temperature. Them bitches get hot.

hollowoutadime · Jun 4, 2018

In Ohio. Spending about 150K on a home and barn addition, I'm acting as GC, hiring out the work I won't/can't do myself. I sent architect drawings to 5 or 6 poured foundation companies, got a quote from one. Hired them. They don't do flat work (floors), but a mexican on the crew does. Did very nice work, involved a 135' boom pumper truck to span the house . Nobody interested in framing it (sent plans to several), mexican guy had a good framer. He had a good roofing crew. Put down about 40 square for around 3K labor, mostly new construction (so not too much tear off). Mexican framer has exterior trim and a drywaller and mason (brick face). They have worked hard, I often bought the lunch. Wasn't about costs, was about getting project done and nobody wanted to do custom work.

Barn was built around 1940. The right side was added in January. Wife not happy barn getting finished out before house, but I'm trying to learn from my mistakes framing and facing it.

I started this project last summer and couldn't get any subs (foreign or domestic).

2ndamendfan · Jun 4, 2018

hollowoutadime said:
In Ohio. Spending about 150K on a home and barn addition, I'm acting as GC, hiring out the work I won't/can't do myself. I sent architect drawings to 5 or 6 poured foundation companies, got a quote from one. Hired them. They don't do flat work (floors), but a mexican on the crew does. Did very nice work, involved a 135' boom pumper truck to span the house . Nobody interested in framing it (sent plans to several), mexican guy had a good framer. He had a good roofing crew. Put down about 40 square for around 3K labor, mostly new construction (so not too much tear off). Mexican framer has exterior trim and a drywaller and mason (brick face). They have worked hard, I often bought the lunch. Wasn't about costs, was about getting project done and nobody wanted to do custom work.

Barn was built around 1940. The right side was added in January. Wife not happy barn getting finished out before house, but I'm trying to learn from my mistakes framing and facing it.

I started this project last summer and couldn't get any subs (foreign or domestic).

Contruction booming right now. No one wants to deal with "projects". 8-10 years ago they would have been lining up.

RNWRKNP · Jun 4, 2018

hollowoutadime said:
In Ohio. Spending about 150K on a home and barn addition, I'm acting as GC, hiring out the work I won't/can't do myself. I sent architect drawings to 5 or 6 poured foundation companies, got a quote from one. Hired them. They don't do flat work (floors), but a mexican on the crew does. Did very nice work, involved a 135' boom pumper truck to span the house . Nobody interested in framing it (sent plans to several), mexican guy had a good framer. He had a good roofing crew. Put down about 40 square for around 3K labor, mostly new construction (so not too much tear off). Mexican framer has exterior trim and a drywaller and mason (brick face). They have worked hard, I often bought the lunch. Wasn't about costs, was about getting project done and nobody wanted to do custom work.

Barn was built around 1940. The right side was added in January. Wife not happy barn getting finished out before house, but I'm trying to learn from my mistakes framing and facing it.

I started this project last summer and couldn't get any subs (foreign or domestic).

The same thing that happened in Japan is happening to us. Old tradesman not being replaced by a young apprentice. Spent some time in Kobe after their big earth quake charging stupid money framing houses. All the Japanese tradesman were old men?

Fig · Jun 4, 2018

I got a construction job when I was 14. One of the owners of the building we were rehabbing was a roofing contractor, and a lot of the clean up guys (what I was) worked there when they didn't have a roofing job to go to. I worked my butt off, but they kept telling me that roofing was a lot harder than construction and that I wouldn't last a day.

Every Summer after that till I went to college I spent on a roofing gang in South St. Louis. Five bucks an hour was huge money for a kid in the '80s. The other kids were making $2.10 minimum wage in their summer jobs scooping ice cream or whatever.

Shingle jobs were practically a day off. We would do 200 square, pitch tear-offs in the 100 degree heat. I set rolls, mopped, ran the luger, and was kettle man. I can still set shingles pretty fast.

The crew was all white (all former convicts covered in prison ink) when I started. They were rough. Rougher than any crowd I served with. Just about every single one was an alcoholic and most drug users. Never on the job, but definitely as soon as they were off.

Towards the end (my senior year) there were some Mexicans on the crew. They worked very hard and knew their shit. I was proud to work along side them. They would drink beer after work, but not get blind drunk like some of the other guys. They were pretty straight laced next to the criminals we worked with.

All in all it was a great education. I've done quite a few difficult and challenging things in my life, but they all seemed pretty easy next to some of my days in high school working on a huge roof. I wouldn't trade that education for anything. At least 50% of my no-quit comes directly from there. I am still very close friends with the boss, who is now retired and his kid is running the company. I use them whenever I can and refer a lot of business to them.

So yea, I'm a roofer!

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

Meanwhile, on the set of "Cien Techeros Mexicanos Dijeron" ...

Redmanss · Jun 4, 2018

PFA? We no need no stinkin' PFA... https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_materials/fy12/sh-23536-12/StudentReferenceMaterials.pdf

Good thing you're getting pics, I'm sure your insurance company will greatly appreciate them if/when one of them falls the fuck off.

Mike 556 · Jun 4, 2018

For any of you fellas thinking of getting some roofing done, a few important items to make sure are included are installation of ice and water shield on the first 6' of the roof, in all valleys, and in any area where there is step flashing. Make sure that the drip edge is installed first and the the ice and water is installed over the drip edge. If installed properly, it will eliminate any water damage from ice damming. Have the roofer weave the shingles in the valleys, much more watertight than an open valley, and easier to install properly than an open valley. After the step flashing is installed, make them put either zip tape or a 1' strip of ice and water shield over the vertical section of step flashing, when installed this way, it eliminates any chance of any water penetrating behind the siding and running down behind the step flashing. If you have to replace or install new roof sheathing, I would highly recommend using Zip roof sheathing with the zip tape on the butts and seams, virtually indestructible. As for the shingles, a lot of companies have whats referred to as a lifetime shingle, just make sure that its at least a 300 lb per square shingle and you should be good to go. If any of you guys have any questions concerning building, just give me a shout. I have 39 years in the business and will try to help make sure you get the proper product along with the correct installation procedure. There's a lot of fly by night contractors out there, and Id be more than happy to try and alleviate the bullshit they pedal! Start a tread, because for the last month I cant access my Fucking PMs!

Mike

Veer_G · Jun 4, 2018

Redmanss said:
PFA? We no need no stinkin' PFA... https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_materials/fy12/sh-23536-12/StudentReferenceMaterials.pdf

Good thing you're getting pics, I'm sure your insurance company will greatly appreciate them if/when one of them falls the fuck off.

Yeah, I'm trying to pretend that I'm not seeing the worst of it.

Fig · Jun 4, 2018

Ok, well, I WAS a roofer. Can't compete with that ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑!

Snipe260 · Jun 4, 2018

Veer_G said:
Nope. The problem is that the roofing company employs somebody who employs the crew. You get a break in the chain and have to depend upon them knowing their shit.

I'm sure they will get it done fast. But a lot of these Mexican crews operate under, we will be long gone before the gringo knows something wrong!

ArmyJerry · Jun 4, 2018

I am calling ICE

ArmyJerry · Jun 4, 2018

Bottom line, we subsidize the workforce of the owner of that company

We pay emergency room medical

We pay for their food stamps and for the welfare of their unmarried baby mommas brood that dwarfs any Irish brood you could ever find.

We pay to educate their illegal little sponges

Our own poor are damaged by this refuse from other countries taking the resources we set aside for our poor

They drive down wages for our poor, thus diminishing opportunity for the poor we have hat might want to dig themselves out of the cycle of poverty

All arguments that are contrary and support illegal cheap labor are the same arguments used in support of slavery earlier in our history.

Trump is failing, all illegals got to go, every last one of them and their fucking little sponge kids.

VeerG this is criminality, take action and call ICE man.

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