Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing

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padom

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Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/08/2016 Last edited 12/08/2016 by padom

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Two boxes of the new .224 Hornady 73g ELD-M showed up today. I loaded up an OCW with 8208XBR in .2g increments from 23.2g to 24.2g to test in my 20" WOA 1:7 SDM AR. They are longer than a 77smk and a tad shorter than a 77 TMK. I have to finish my seating depth testing with the new 6.5 130ELDM tomorrow. If I have time I will shoot this test otherwise I will shoot it early next week.

1xLC Annealed
205M
8208XBR
2.2585" COAL



From left to right

Nosler 77cc, Hornady 75BTHP, Hornady 73 ELD-M, 77TMK, 77smk

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/09/2016 Last edited 12/09/2016 by KibaSH
(1 vote)

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I have some 73 ELD's for testing in my AR as well, currently finishing off a batch of ammo so I can reload and test.

I'd recommend you also pick up some Nosler 70 RDF's for testing... they also look like they'll work well in an AR at mag length.

Here were my measurements:

73 ELD: 1.050 long, 0.490 base to ogive, 0.560 tip to ogive

70 RDF: 0.961 long, 0.381 base to ogive, 0.580 tip to ogive

Loaded to max mag length the RDF will eat less case capacity since it's 0.089" shorter than the 73 ELD but it will also be .020" further from the lands than the 73 ELD. Should be OK though as I haven't found the RDF's to be really seating depth sensitive. Ogive of the RDF will be right at or slightly into the neck when loaded to AR mag length, but the 73 ELD is right there too. The big difference between the two is that the 70 RDF has a 0.211 G7, nearly the same as a 75 Amax, compared to the 73 ELD at 0.195 G7. The Nosler stated 0.211 G7 seems to be very close, if not a little conservative, based off my testing at 600Y.

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/09/2016 Last edited 12/09/2016 by padom

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I didnt know the 70 RDF's were available yet. Will order a few boxes today if I can find them! My testing with both the 140 ELDM and 130ELDM have told me they are extremely accurate jumping and dont need to be close to the lands. Hoping the 73ELDM show the same results. Also, I have plenty of room still in the case for powder even with 24.2g 8208XBR, not compressed which is good news. This was not the case with the longer 77TMK which I did not like.



At $7/100 cheaper than the RDF and 77smk, if these things shoot like my 77smk go to load than it will be my new AR precision bullet.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/09/2016 Last edited 12/09/2016 by KibaSH

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I got the 70 RDF's from Midway several weeks ago.

I've tried the 70 RDF's out of my 223AI bolt gun. They gave a nice velocity jump over the 75 Amax I was using but so far I haven't been able to get that rifle to group the RDF's quite as good as the 75 Amax. Close, but not quite. I also have 75 ELD's to try, they look really good and have a great BC, but they're not AR-mag length friendly obviously. Depending on results I may run the 75 ELD out of the 223AI bolt gun and the 70 RDF or 73 ELD in the AR.

Much like you I've had very good luck with the 140 ELD out of my 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun as well, currently waiting on the 140 RDF to test.

The 6mm 105 RDF runs really well out of my 6 Dasher, they might become the go-to bullet for that rifle over the Berger 105 Hybrid.

Hoping for good results with the 73 ELD and 70 RDF in my AR. Sure is nice to have all these new high BC bullets coming out from multiple manufacturers, it's always good to have more options! I'm planning on testing Varget, H4895, and AR Comp in the AR with the 70 RDF & 73 ELD.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/09/2016 Last edited 12/09/2016 by KibaSH

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FYI here's a pic... 70 RDF top, 73 ELD middle, 75 ELD bottom.

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sawgunner2001XGunny Sergeant
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/10/2016

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If a guy has a good load worked up with the 75gr BTHP, is the new 73gr ELD worth going through another workup for? I see it has a very slight edge in BC, and can probably be pushed a couple FPS faster, but I'm failing to see where I'd see a significant advantage of going through another load workup? My thought is that it will be a better, but only marginally with no breathtaking advantages... Or am I making excuses and being lazy???

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/10/2016 Last edited 12/10/2016 by padom

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Ok so I was able to shoot the OCW yesterday with my 20" WOA SDM 1:7. I loaded 5 foulers to shoot over the Magnetospeed V3 so I could get an idea of speed. I do not shoot my OCW's with the Magnetospeed on. I loaded the foulers to my same 75BTHP and 77smk charge weight of 23.6g 8208. All rounds were loaded to 2.258" COAL. This charge was dead on with my 77smk load in speed at 2800fps and SD8.4. Accuracy was not there but I was not looking for accuracy with an OCW. I suspect these like to be seated deeper just like my 77smk and 75BTHP loads. And yet again, after shooting the OCW 23.4-23.8 shows an obvious node. That node exists with pretty much every 75/77g bullet Ive tested with 8208XBR. Im now going to load up a seating depth test with 23.6g 8208XBR and see how accurate this bullet can be.

sawgunner, per the test I just did yesterday with these new 73"s, your same load should work just fine with these bullets. At least it does with 8208 for me, but I personally always test to confirm. I never had great luck with the 75's, they shot OK but not nearly as good as the 77smk do in my rifle.

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sawgunner2001XGunny Sergeant
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/10/2016

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Thanks for the data, padom. I've got a good load with my 75gr BTHP's, so I'll stick with those for now. This is good to know though, for if/when they discontinue it or they go through some sort of spell where they're impossible to get.

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/10/2016 Last edited 12/10/2016 by padom

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As a side not I also tested the new Hornady 52g ELD Match bullets yesterday with H4895 and Varget. Very impressed with the 52g ELD / H4895 combo. Not so much with Varget. I used Sierra book data for the 52smk as a starting point. Loaded 25.3-26.5 in .3g increments of H4895. I loaded 5 foulers to shoot over the chrono at 26g and speed was 3321fps!!! Zero pressure signs! Shot the OCW and found a node between 25.6-26.2. I came home and inspected the brass, zero ejector marks on the case head, primers look good. Deprimed and primed the brass to see if the pockets were blown out. Nope, still just as tight as I loaded them initially. Very happy. Gonna be a nice little plinking load.

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/10/2016 Last edited 12/10/2016 by padom

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I shot my seating depth test today and the result were disappointing.

I shot my OCW at 2.2585 COAL. Found an obvious node between 23.4-24.0 but groups were large at 1.5-3". I went with 23.6g and loaded a seating depth test going shorter in .003" increments 4 times. The groups never got any smaller. I am going to load 2 groups going longer in .003 increments above mag length to see if these 73's like to be closer to the lands. Would be ashame if that's the case because they would not fit in a mag... Will report back

Going to try Varget and RE15 as well to see if they just done like 8208..

Shot a 5 shot group with my 77smk go to load just to confirm everything is functioning properly because I got a new QD scope mount and it was .4" so gun is shooting just fine as always.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/10/2016 Last edited 12/10/2016 by KibaSH

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I'm loading up 73 ELD's and 70 RDF's for an OCW test in my AR right now. Going to try H4895 and AR Comp for the first trip out. Should be able to test them Monday morning. I'll post back what my results are.

Also, some data from my AR & chamber (JP 22" barrel):

73 ELD jumps 0.118" when loaded to mag length
70 RDF jumps 0.135 when loaded to mag length

It's apparent Hornady tried to optimize the 73 ELD so the ogive is closer to the lands and the bearing surface has been located such that as much of the bearing surface as possible is engaged in the neck when loaded to AR mag length. The bearing surface of the 70 RDF is shifted back a little further than ideal for loading to AR mag length, but it should still work in an AR at mag length... guess I'll find out soon.

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/10/2016

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I'm going to load up OCW's tonight with H4895, AR Comp and RE15. Will shoot them tomorrow.

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/11/2016 Last edited 12/11/2016 by padom

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Got out to test the 73's with AR Comp, H4895, and RE15. AR Comp was slow and needed more gas, didn't adjust my AGB but with AR Comp it was not grabbing the next round or locking back on last round. RE15 showed promise, going to do a seating depth test with it and H4895 was a hammer at 23.5g dead in the middle of a node. That's my same load with 77smk. .3" 5 shot group with my 23.5g foulers. Going to test that further as well.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/11/2016 Last edited 12/12/2016 by KibaSH

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I've noticed the same thing about AR Comp, the loads listed on Alliant's webpage are optimistic in terms velocity. Takes more powder than they say to get there. However, if you load up a little more than they say I've found the velocity is there, there aren't pressure signs, and the ES/SD is tight.

Curious, how high did you go on your AR Comp loads?

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/11/2016

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I went 22.2 - 23.4 in .3g increments with AR Comp. It shot the worst of all the powders I tested. Started seeing ejector swipe at 22.5 and it got heavier up from there. The target looked like buck shot, shots all over the place. Bullets impacting WAY high compared to all the other powders tested so far with 73 ELD's.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/11/2016

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That's almost the exact same charges and increments I loaded up. I'll report back with my results tomorrow.

 

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/11/2016

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I was loaded to 2.261

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/12/2016 Last edited 12/12/2016 by padom

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Got out again today to shoot the seating depth tests with H4895 and RE15. H4895 has shown the best results with the 73ELD in all my testing. I chrono 5 fouler rounds of both H4895 and RE15. 23.3g H4895 chrono 2789. RE15 23.7g was 2668. Accuracy through all the seating depth testing was above 1moa. That powder is out.

H4895 showed a seating depth that was shooting just under 0.5". I am going to load up 25 or so of these and test them tomorrow out to 600yd. I will save the rest to test in my incoming Shillen and Rock Creek barrels. Still not the same easy .3, .4" accuracy of my 77smk in this gun but pretty good.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/12/2016 Last edited 12/14/2016 by KibaSH

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I've got some data too from 300Y OCW testing this morning with the 70 RDF & 73 ELD. Unfortunately the breeze started picking up during this session so there was more horizontal than I'd like to see on the targets, but there were several promising loads.



All were loaded in LC brass, Remington 7.5 primers, and loaded to 2.260" for max mag length. Barrel is an 8 twist 22" JP. Velocities from the Labradar.



70 RDF / H4895:

node at 23.6-24.2gr, 23.9gr was 2867 fps

faint ejector marks starting to show up at 24.2gr / 2920 fps

still faint ejector marks and primer radii just starting to flatten at 24.8gr / 2957 fps. Node between 24.5gr & 24.8gr. Really like the velocity here and the ejector marks are very faint, but don't think it will be a safe load on 100F summer days.



70 RDF / AR Comp:

node at 23.0-23.3gr, 23.3gr was 2863 fps.

faint ejector marks starting to show up at 23.3gr.



73 ELD / H4895:

node at 23.4-24.0gr. 23.7gr was 2812 fps.

faint ejector marks starting to show up at 24.0gr / 2852fps, a little heavier at 24.3gr, and ejector smear & gouge at 24.6gr / 2931fps. Great group at 24.6gr though. Big velocity change and big elevation jump between 24.3 & 24.6, looks like a pressure spike at 24.6.



73 ELD / AR Comp:

node between 22.1-22.4gr. 22.4gr was 2775fps

node between 22.7-23.0gr. 23.0gr was 2842 fps.

faint ejector marks starting to show at 23.3gr / 2866fps.



For the 70 RDF, both H4895 and AR Comp showed nodes right around 2860fps. For the 73 ELD, both H4895 & AR Comp showed nodes right around 2820fps. The RDF has a velocity advantage at the nodes and a BC advantage over the 73 ELD at .211 G7 vs .195 G7. The 70 RDF / 23.9gr H4895 combo gives the most margin from a node to the onset of faint ejector marks, I'm hoping the rifle likes that best.

Couldn't determine a group size winner between bullets & powders because of the breeze kicking up and causing too much horizontal. Had several very promising groups though with both the 70RDF & 73 ELD with both powders, looks like the 70RDF will run at AR mag length which is great news. Need to retest the nodes on a calm morning to see what bullet and powder combo groups best.

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/12/2016 Last edited 12/12/2016 by padom

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I had all good numbers myself with things that looked promising but other than H4895, accuracy just wasnt there. Submoa accuracy, accuracy between .6-.75, yes but not the bughole accuracy of my 77smk load.

Interested in seeing what kind of consistent groups your able to get. I have 50rd loaded up with the above H4895 .5moa load to test out to 600yd tomorrow. Hopefully its a calm day out there.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/13/2016 Last edited 12/14/2016 by KibaSH
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Did some more testing today at the nodes, but I wasn't on my game today when it came to shooting small groups.

70 RDF / 23.9 H4895 was about 1/2 MOA @ 300Y for the bulk of the group, but there were a few flyers that I wasn't sure were the gun or me. Labradar data says it was probably me. LOL. Need to try again.

73 ELD / 23.7 H4895 looked really promising... had 5 shots within 3/4" @ 300Y, but also had several out of family flyers. Again, not sure if it was the gun or me.

73 ELD / 22.8 AR Comp: About 1 MOA @ 300Y, no real grouping going on. Pretty sure the rifle doesn't like this bullet/powder combo.

Also did some testing at 550Y on steel. Just like at 300Y it looked like the 73 ELD / H4895 combo was the winner in terms of group size. Was scratching my head when I noticed the 70 RDFs @ 2850 needed 3.6 mils and the 73 ELDs at 2825fps neded 3.4 mils. This was at 52F / -280' DA. I'm thinking it's a zero offset artifact as I haven't yet verified the 100Y zeros for the 70RDF & 73 ELD. Based off testing in my 223AI bolt gun I know the .211 G7 on the nosler RDF is pretty much spot on and thus I expected it to beat the 73 ELD in terms of elevation at 550Y.

Need to order a couple more boxes of the 73 ELD, I'm almost out.

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/13/2016

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I tested my 73ELD H4895 load out to 500yd today. Bottom line, not impressed, eat least with my 20"WOA. The accuracy doesnt come close to my 77smk load which shoots light out in all my AR's. Im out as well, ordered 3 more boxes the other day. Kinda wished I didnt but will test them in the the Rainer Shillen and Rock Creek barrels arriving this week. Hoping the RDF arriving tomorrow do better but not holding my breath. I had erratic shots at distance as well and it wasnt me. They would start to group then 2 or 3 erratic shots every group I shot.

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/13/2016

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I didnt have great luck with the 75 Hornadys either but better accuracy than these. Really wanted these to shoot well with higher bc and way cheaper than 77smk.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/13/2016 Last edited 12/13/2016 by KibaSH

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Interesting you were seeing the same grouping + flyers behavior. I can't 100% attribute that to the load as I felt and knew I wasn't shooting at my best this morning. I'm going to pick up a couple more boxes of the 73 ELD's to retest and see if the group + flyers behavior continues. Labradar shows it's not an out of family velocity causing the flyers. I know my 22" JP can shoot excellent, with my N133 / 53 gr Vmax squirrel blaster combo it's a solid 1/3 MOA @ 300Y load.

I've never tried the 77 SMKs before, maybe I'll try those as well since you have great luck with them. You're using the regular 77 SMK and not the 77 TMK, correct?

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/13/2016

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I shoot 77smk with and without cannelure. both shoot one hole groups with 23.6g 8208, 2801 SD 7.

I tested the 77tmk and they had to be loaded longer than mag length to get same accuracy as 77smk.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/13/2016 Last edited 12/13/2016 by KibaSH

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Thanks. Adding a couple boxes of those to my order to test. Need to find a good heavy bullet target load for this gun for when I'm not using the 53 Vmax to shoot meat targets.

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spawnof918vXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/16/2016

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KibaSH wrote:

I'm loading up 73 ELD's and 70 RDF's for an OCW test in my AR right now. Going to try H4895 and AR Comp for the first trip out. Should be able to test them Monday morning. I'll post back what my results are.

Also, some data from my AR & chamber (JP 22" barrel):

73 ELD jumps 0.118" when loaded to mag length
70 RDF jumps 0.135 when loaded to mag length

It's apparent Hornady tried to optimize the 73 ELD so the ogive is closer to the lands and the bearing surface has been located such that as much of the bearing surface as possible is engaged in the neck when loaded to AR mag length. The bearing surface of the 70 RDF is shifted back a little further than ideal for loading to AR mag length, but it should still work in an AR at mag length... guess I'll find out soon.​

In my 308, the optimum jump length for 175 SMK is .060", but it's .120" for Berger 175 OTM both at 2.810" COAL.

I think there may be jump nodes as there are powder charge nodes. Testing will prove that out.

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KibaSHX72 MONTHS
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/16/2016 Last edited 12/16/2016 by KibaSH

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Not a lot of room for tuning of jump with either of these bullets at AR mag length unfortunately, you pretty much get what you get based on the throat of your barrel. If you're loading to mag length you're limited to about 2.260" max, and at mag length the ogive of both the 73 ELD and 70 RDF are pretty much right at the end of the neck, the RDF moreso than the ELD. Start pushing them deeper and you're going to start seeing a "ring" as the ogive is pushed below the neck. Less bullet to neck contact means less neck retention/grip and you risk substantial bullet movement during cycling & chambering which could spike pressure if the bullet gets forced deeper into the case. Probably won't happen though as most heavy bullet AR mag length loads are mildly compressed.

You could possibly push the 73 ELD back to about 2.230" before the ogive is below the neck and you start getting a "ring" if you wanted to test more jump, but the 70 RDF has the bearing surface further rearwards compared to the 73 ELD and is already on the verge of showing a "ring" when loaded to 2.260".

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padom

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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/16/2016 Last edited 12/16/2016 by padom

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idk about the 70RDF but no issues seating the 77cc, 77smk, 75BTHP and 73ELDM deeper for seating depth testing. My WOA actually prefers deeper for best accuracy. 1.858" Ogive for 77smk.

New 20" Ultramatch showed up yesterday. Broke it in with 77cc and it showed some great groups. Time to start load development for it next week.

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MMH762XSergeant
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Re: Hornady .224 73 ELD-M Testing
12/16/2016

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Nothing to add - just trying to learn how to load for an AR.

 

[Guest]

Here's results of my testing with the 73 ELDM in my new 20" Rainier UltraMatch Shilen 1:8 barrel. The ELD-M's shot the best of everything I tested so far in this barrel. Very happy with this load.

OCW Test






Seating Depth Test



[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/IBbyvSm.jpg"}[/IMG2]




Accuracy Test to confirm load

 

[TonyTheTiger]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/s10.postimg.org\/t33l6cssl\/20170218_134855.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Really liking the 73 ELD's, this is a crappy pic of a good representation of the 3 shot groups I've been getting. This one measures .37 outside to outside, most 5 shot groups around .5 MOA. I'm at 23.8gr of 8208 in LC brass with CCI450's and loaded to 2.35" OAL in cut mags. My chrono took a dump on me but data out to 700 yards says I'm around 2850 fps.

 

[mason.ostrom]

I tried the 70gr RDF on monday out my Rainier Rock creek 16" barrel, and got horrible results. Accuracy around 3 moa. I was using 25.3-25.9gr of CFE223. I may have to give the 73gr ELD a try. I get good accuracy (.75-1.0 MOA) using CFE 223 and 75gr Hornady HPBTs.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/s18.postimg.org\/5qo5n2bk5\/20170401_142413.jpg"}[/IMG2]

These bullets with 23.8gr of 8208 and CCI450's is working awesome for me. This is a 1.5" 5 shot group at 450 yards.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/s17.postimg.org\/feizxfz6z\/20170401_144439.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Blasted off another 15 rounds quick and it's still under MOA for all 20 shots.

 

[bunsen27]

Thanks for all the great info in this thread! I'm currently doing load development for a 26" barreled Savage 12 BVSS. It's supposed to be a 1 in 9" twist, but actually measured 1 in 8.25". It is able to stabilize the 73gr ELD's. I've only tested Varget thus far and have been very pleased with the results. I've found two nodes ~1gr apart at 23.0gr and 24.0gr. I've tested up to 24.8gr with no pressure signs, but the loads are definitely compressed.

new LC brass
Win Small Rifle Primer
Hornady 73gr ELD-M
COL = 1.929

 

[Juggerxxx]

Hoping to add to the pool of data for the 75gr ELD with four different powders. Going to run this test on a Tikka 24" varmint. Was seeing good results on the 73gr ELDs with tight groups, wide nodes and velocities.

 

[steve123]

Just wanted to let you guys know that a friend duplicated Padom's load of 23.4 8208XBR and it shot the best compared to other loads he shot in his AR! Slight ejector smear but he isn't worried about it.

 

[padom]

Since receiving my can last month and testing my load out with the can on, the accuracy isnt the same with this load. Going to do a new load work up 23g-23.8g 8208XBR to see if the can prefers a different load.

 

[bunsen27]

Since receiving my can last month and testing my load out with the can on, the accuracy isnt the same with this load. Going to do a new load work up 23g-23.8g 8208XBR to see if the can prefers a different load.

What suppressor are you shooting and what is your attachment method?

 

[padom]

Rugged Surge 7.62 using their QD Brake. Using this same can and brake on my 10.5" 300blk SBR the accuracy didnt change with my go to load for that gun. Same bughole accuracy on my 26" Bartlein/BighornTL3 6.5x47L with the can/brake combo as well.

 

[bunsen27]

Rugged Surge 7.62 using their QD Brake. Using this same can and brake on my 10.5" 300blk SBR the accuracy didnt change with my go to load for that gun. Same bughole accuracy on my 26" Bartlein/BighornTL3 6.5x47L with the can/brake combo as well.

Sounds like the suppressor and mount are good. Possibly the additional weight messed with your barrel harmonics or velocity changed enough to move you outside the node.

 

[padom]

Yea Im just going to do a new OCW between 23.0-23.8 and go from there.

 

[H3nchman]

Padom. I have searched and read a lot of your posts on precision AR loads. Do you recommend using the elds in a WOA 18" 1:7 spr barrel or should I use SMKs? Also, You use LC brass. Is this mixed years and uniformed? Or is it single lot?

Thanks

 

[padom]

All my brass is matching headstamp, fully prepped. Flash hole deburred, military crimp reamed out, SS tumbled and annealed, FL sized with a Forster FL sizing die bumping shoulders back .003 from fired case headspace.

I do not recommed the ELD's in WOA's. Of my 3 WOA's they ALL shot lights out with 23.6g 8208XBR and 77smk. Thats a 16", 18" SPR, and 20" SDM. They shot the older Hornady 75BTHP second best with same load. I did extensive testing with the 73 ELD's and many different powders and they just shot like shit in the WOA.

I decided to test 3 different Rainier Ultramatch barrels and they shoot lights out with the new 73 ELD's and 8208XBR.

 

[H3nchman]

Thank you. I did not mean to derail your thread. I appreciate your extensive testing.

 

[bunsen27]

I did final confirmation testing yesterday of my previous OCW results by shooting three groups suppressed/unsuppressed. The loads were ~24.2gr of Varget thrown by a Lee powder measured. I randomly checked five of twenty charges and all were 24.2gr. 0.5 MOA is not too darn shabby for a bone stock factory rifle.




Out to 400yds this load behaves reasonably similar to my 6.5 Creedmoor 130gr Berger AR Hyrbrid load drop wise, but with increased wind drift.

I've decided to give the woodchucks a slight advantage this year by switching to the .223Rem for anything inside 400yds.

 

[700smooth]

great post thanks for the testing

 

[Juggerxxx]

Hoping to add to the pool of data for the 75gr ELD with four different powders. Going to run this test on a Tikka 24" varmint. Was seeing good results on the 73gr ELDs with tight groups, wide nodes and velocities.

Admittedly I am to lazy to post the results for all four of the different powders I used on the 75gr ELD tests. The summary is i had terrible results with 8208 and AR Comp. wouldn't group for shit and the speeds were all over the place. H4895 had some good nodes and groups but still high SD and ES. Varget was a clear winner with tight groups surrounded by very little difference in POI above and below those powder charges. Varget also had unbelievable low single digit SD and ES!!!!!!! The tikka 24" barrel pushed them right at 2905fps with only 24.4gr of Varget. That speed was verified today with a ton of fun at the 1000 yard range with an elevation requirement of 28.5 MOA. Lots of hits at 1000 yards before the wind picked. Very accurate bullet and load that was hitting 6" triangles consistently at 400, 500 and 600 yards. Had a few left over that were devistating on a few prairie dogs! The PDogs were hoping high into the air and spinning very fast after impact.
i will be ordering a good amount more of these.

 

[Juggerxxx]

I thought the comparison between a 140gr ELD and the 75gr ELD was interesting. Obviously when the wind picks up it a whole other story.

 

[bunsen27]

I thought the comparison between a 140gr ELD and the 75gr ELD was interesting. Obviously when the wind picks up it a whole other story.

My 73gr ELD load @ 2900fps is also nearly identical to my 130gr Berger AR Hybrid load @2800fps. At around 480yds the flight paths diverge by greater than 2 inches with the gap growing to 10 inches by 650yds. Wind drift is ~ 1.5x for the 73gr versus the 130gr.

 

[bunsen27]

I spent yesterday shooting with a buddy at Ridgway rifle club and finally got to see what this load and rifle could do at distance beyond 600yds. My buddy was routinely making hits on a full sized IPSC at 1k with 77gr STMK's @2930fps from his Short Action Customs 1 in 7.7" twist Brux barreled rifle. Very impressive!

I took a stab at the 900yd groundhog targets and scored a second round hit, a miss, then followed up by connecting with two more hits in a row. I was only having to hold 4-5 MOA of wind for the quartering 4-6mph wind at a target that's ~7 inches at it's widest point (base) and averages around 5 inches wide. It has also proven highly lethal on real groundhogs killing them "dead right there".

 

[heytonyman]

I've worked with this bullet quite a bit recently as well. Testing two powders in 3 different AR's and finding great results.

First with Varget at 2.260 COAL. Fully prep'd Winchester brass, GM205MAR primers. Gun is a bastard build AR. Has an older Larue Stealth upper with the 18" Lothar Walther 1/8 twist. Also used a SAS Arbiter 7.62 during testing. This combo comfortably shot the 77SMK into 1/2" at 100 so I use that as a benchmark.

Physically couldn't get enough Varget into the case to find any pressure signs. Loads past 25.0 grains were compressed to the point of bullet deformation so that was out but shot them anyways. Like they say with Varget, if you ain't crunching you ain't living.

Accuracy was outstanding. Best groups I've ever seen from this rifle and across the charges more accurate than the 77SMK or 70RDF ever was. Wish I would have seen more distinct velocity nodes throughout the charges and a bit tighter SD but the 24.8 load has done well on whistlepigs out to 700 yards. 2685fps is what I'm plugging into JBM and it lines right up with the advertised BC out to 700 so far. The velocity isn't mind boggling but from a canned 18" gasser it's right near what I expected to see. 40fps faster than my 77 SMK load.

<a href='http://i.imgur.com/mkWSFcY' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/mkWSFcY.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>
<a href='http://i.imgur.com/5tvnI8v' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/5tvnI8v.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>
<a href='http://i.imgur.com/jfKUG1a' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/jfKUG1a.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>

 

[heytonyman]

Second powder tested was H4895. Going off others helpful information in this thread I expected to see a node in the upper 23g range and that's exactly what I found. I ran the full spectrum anyways just to feel this faster powder out. Again, no pressure signs were seen in case heads but noted pretty flattened primers up past the 24.0 grain mark. Also, heavily compressed with slight bullet deformation north of 24.2 grains. I get the feeling these projectiles must have VERY thin jackets as the SMK's seemed like they could take a bit more crunch with no signs of abuse.

Test rifle was a budget build PSA 16" light stainless kit. 5.56 Chamber and again with the SAS Arbiter 7.62 suppressor. Typical accuracy hovers around 1 MOA with a decent load. Fully prep'd WMA brass (Winchester Military) and GM205MAR primer. Found a very nice velocity node from 23.7-24.0 with 23.8 being a standout on the chrono. Group size tho warranted additional testing of seating depth. Found that this barrel liked a bit more jump. Final load was 23.8g at 2.220" COAL or 1.768" ogive.

I may may revisit the previous LW barreled rifle with this powder just to see an apples to apples comparison of H4985 to Varget.

<a href='http://i.imgur.com/iXkt477' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/iXkt477.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>

<a href='http://i.imgur.com/FfTEa31' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/FfTEa31.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>

<a href='http://i.imgur.com/7nA2eKO' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/7nA2eKO.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Anyone try the 73 ELD's with CFE? Someone just gave me a pound so now I have to get rid of it somehow.

 

[Yondering]

Bumping this old thread to ask if anyone has more follow up info on good loads with this 73gr ELD bullet in AR mags.

I'm going to start by working up to the 23.4gr 8208 load, the AR I'll be doing this with likes the 75gr BTHP at that charge better than anything else in that weight range so I'm hoping it likes the 73 as well.

 

[918v]

23.6grs @ 2.260” is excellent. Shoots dime size groups out of my Tikka. Single digit ES. 2900 FPS.

 

[padom]

My AR prefers them a little longer at 2.273 out of ASC SS mags

 

[Yondering]

Thanks for the input guys. I do have ASC mags so the longer OAL is an option.

Still not sure if I really see an advantage (on paper) over the 75gr BTHP, since that one shoots so well, but thought I should give them a try at least.

 

[lennyo3034]

I decided to test 3 different Rainier Ultramatch barrels and they shoot lights out with the new 73 ELD's and 8208XBR.

What load of 8208 and what velocities were you getting?

I will be rebarreling soon and am considering these to replace the 77 tmk.

 

[bunsen27]

I can report that Ramshot TAC is also a good powder option for the 73gr ELD-M's in a bolt gun. I'm getting great velocities and accuracy with minimal pressure signs on both 73gr and 75gr loads (3010fps and 2945fps).

The barrel is a 26", 1 in 8' Criterion Remage barrel with a .223 Wylde chamber. I'm seating the bullets 0.015" off the lands which is way out there compared to mag length on a gasser.

I'm going to see how it handles the 80 ELD-M's this weekend. I think I can push them fast enough to be stable (2940fps yields SG = 1.4).

 

[ssteve]

Getting 2720fps out of them with 24.2gr of varget. Barrel is a crane spec 18” mk12 centurion arms barrel.

Loaded to mag length and I tested all the way up to 25gr(fairly compressed) with no pressure signs

 

[garandman]

Reviving....following....

 

[slowmanpew]

Been lurking for a while... thanks to many people for helping me zone in on some good nodes. I've only loaded the 73gr ELD's with 8208XBR, and started seeing some pressure signs around 23.7gr. Before I found some data here I was only loading up to 23.2, and my best 5-shot group at the time was 1.6" at 200 yards (22.4gr). I'll be at the CMP this friday to do some more testing and hope to bring that group size down a bit.

I purchased the Hornady 11th edition 5.56 load data through their mobile app. I hope its okay to post this here.

 

[bunsen27]

Been lurking for a while... thanks to many people for helping me zone in on some good nodes. I've only loaded the 73gr ELD's with 8208XBR, and started seeing some pressure signs around 23.7gr. Before I found some data here I was only loading up to 23.2, and my best 5-shot group at the time was 1.6" at 200 yards (22.4gr). I'll be at the CMP this friday to do some more testing and hope to bring that group size down a bit.

I purchased the Hornady 11th edition 5.56 load data through their mobile app. I hope its okay to post this here.

Are you loading for a gas gun or bolt gun? Hornady's load data is quite conservative FYI. I would not go above 23.5gr of XBR8208 for 73gr and even that could be a bit spicy dependent on variables. Work your way up obviously,

 

[slowmanpew]

Are you loading for a gas gun or bolt gun? Hornady's load data is quite conservative FYI. I would not go above 23.5gr of XBR8208 for 73gr and even that could be a bit spicy dependent on variables. Work your way up obviously,

A gas gun, rifle length gas tube in an 18" bbl, so the cycling is fairly soft, had plenty of cycling issues with H335 in the first half of book load ranges for that powder.

My first workup with the 73grELD/8208XBR was 20.0 - 22.4gr, then did one with 22.0 - 23.2gr. These were all for shooting 5 round groups, as I didn't have a chrono yet, and 22.4gr was the winner. Then I got my magnetospeed and ran a ladder of 21.9 - 23.7, the top end just starting to show some pressure signs (ejector marks only).

 

[bunsen27]

A gas gun, rifle length gas tube in an 18" bbl, so the cycling is fairly soft, had plenty of cycling issues with H335 in the first half of book load ranges for that powder.

My first workup with the 73grELD/8208XBR was 20.0 - 22.4gr, then did one with 22.0 - 23.2gr. These were all for shooting 5 round groups, as I didn't have a chrono yet, and 22.4gr was the winner. Then I got my magnetospeed and ran a ladder of 21.9 - 23.7, the top end just starting to show some pressure signs (ejector marks only).

Ok for the gas gun I'd stay below 23.6gr of XBR8208. My goto load of XBR8208 is 23.3gr under a 77 SMK in a LC case.

I have a lot of experience with the 73's in a bolt gun, but not as much in a gasser. I recall the 73's can be persnickety when restricted to AR mag length.

 

[jLorenzo]

Great thread. Thanks for documenting all this stuff. Anyone have a good load for the 75 bthp (not to derail but theres alot of good stuff in this thread)
I have an 18" WOA SPR barrel. Not shooting so great at mag length. Going to work back, I have heard between 2.23-2.24 they start to tighen up. Good velocity and single digit SD with 24.3 of RL15, no pressure, 2700fps.

 

[6.5SH]

Great thread. Thanks for documenting all this stuff. Anyone have a good load for the 75 bthp (not to derail but theres alot of good stuff in this thread)
I have an 18" WOA SPR barrel. Not shooting so great at mag length. Going to work back, I have heard between 2.23-2.24 they start to tighen up. Good velocity and single digit SD with 24.3 of RL15, no pressure, 2700fps.

FWIW Hornady loads the 75gr BTHP T2 TAP at 2.235"

 

[Yondering]

Great thread. Thanks for documenting all this stuff. Anyone have a good load for the 75 bthp (not to derail but theres alot of good stuff in this thread)
I have an 18" WOA SPR barrel. Not shooting so great at mag length. Going to work back, I have heard between 2.23-2.24 they start to tighen up. Good velocity and single digit SD with 24.3 of RL15, no pressure, 2700fps.

I use 23.5gr Benchmark, S&B SR primers, LC brass. Try seating shorter than mag length; these bullets can do well with a lot of jump.

 

[slowmanpew]

Ok for the gas gun I'd stay below 23.6gr of XBR8208. My goto load of XBR8208 is 23.3gr under a 77 SMK in a LC case.

I have a lot of experience with the 73's in a bolt gun, but not as much in a gasser. I recall the 73's can be persnickety when restricted to AR mag length.

I shot my 5 groups last Friday at 200 yards. I had 4 sighter shots at 23.0gn and they did way better (.47moa) than the other 5 groups (23.1 - 23.5), so I am going to have to revisit that load. Previously 22.4gn was the magic number with 8208/73eld.

Edit: The 73gr ELD-M has to be seated to 2.432" before it touches the lands in this rifle. I don't have any modified mags to see if seating it any longer helps, and until I replace my $99 barrel I don't think it's worth my time on this rifle.

 

[Gentleman4561]

Old thread, but wanted to share.

73ELD-M
New Starline Brass
Powder - Shooters world precision - 25.7 which gives me 2675 out of an 18” barrel (OVER MAX) No pressure signs.
Primer - Federal GMM SRP
OAL - 2.256

This gun shoots in the .75” range with Atlanta Arms MK262 load, and that is what I have shot for a few years. Decided to start loading for this gun and figured I would give the 73 ELDMs a shot as they have a bit better BC.

I think this has great potential, I just have spoiled myself with so much bolt gun shooting that my fundamentals are rough and I am struggling to shoot the gas gun well.

Found the charge weight via a combo of OCW w/ a chrono, but really didn’t find any significant flat spots. The velocity was a pretty straight line.

 

[Yondering]

Old thread, but wanted to share.

73ELD-M
New Starline Brass
Powder - Shooters world precision - 25.7 which gives me 2675 out of an 18” barrel (OVER MAX) No pressure signs.
Primer - Federal GMM SRP
OAL - 2.256

This gun shoots in the .75” range with Atlanta Arms MK262 load, and that is what I have shot for a few years. Decided to start loading for this gun and figured I would give the 73 ELDMs a shot as they have a bit better BC.

I think this has great potential, I just have spoiled myself with so much bolt gun shooting that my fundamentals are rough and I am struggling to shoot the gas gun well.

Found the charge weight via a combo of OCW w/ a chrono, but really didn’t find any significant flat spots. The velocity was a pretty straight line.

None of my 5.56 rifles wanted to do any better with that bullet either. I gave up on it and stayed with the 75 BTHP instead, which shoots great in all my rifles.

FYI if you can find it, both 8208 and Benchmark will do about that same velocity with the 75 BTHP and the 73 ELD and are fairly temp stable to boot. Just an alternative. 24.0gr of 8208, or 23.5gr of Benchmark were both good accuracy loads for me with the 75 BTHP at right around that velocity, although the 73 still wouldn't group all that well.

You mention your powder gave pretty linear velocity increases, which sounds like a number of ball powders I like to use. With several of them, my load workup method in those cases is to find max and work out a comfortable pressure load from that, and then just work on seating depth to dial in accuracy. Leverevolution is one example (and it works great for high velocity 5.56 loads, faster than anything else you'll find, but there's no published data) - I find max with bullets as close to the lands as feasible, back off a hair, then just adjust seating depth for accuracy. If it's not good enough, then I'll try a few different primers; usually some will shoot better than others.