Mausingfield - SwitchLug - Xray build advice

[Just Macca]

So I'm considering a Mausingfield build with the following ideas. This'll be a long one sorry as I have a few ideas swirling around. Let us know what you think.

- Firstly; I at minimum want to use a long action. If the .585" (Lapua) action is the same footprint as the standard long action, I'll use it and buy two spare bolts in .540" and .470". Can anyone confirm that? Is the Lapua Mag bolt face M5 even available yet?

- Secondly; I'm wanting to set it up as a switch barrel using the West Texas Ordnance SwitchLug. To do so, I'll need to pin it to the integral lug of the Mausingfield. Can anyone foresee any issues securing the switch lug to the ARC M5? Furthermore, does the Long action (.540" and .585") have the same .185" thick recoil lug as the short action M5?

- Thirdly; I want to use a KRG Xray stock. Will the long action M5 have any fitment issues? KRG states that the Xray has a .400" lug pocket. Has anyone ever milled one larger? I'll need to mill it an extra .135" to accommodate the M5 integral lug AND SwitchLug sandwiched together. KRG have been very helpful providing pictures on how much larger the pocket can go. Seems like it's doable.

- Fourthly; I want to use the Bix n Andy Tacsport Two stage trigger. Anyone know of any fitment issues with either the Xray or ARC M5?

Let me know what you think.

 

[samb300]

I have no experience with the Mausingfield, but I'm pretty sure the new Switch Lug does not require the "double thick" lug that the original gen did.

 

[powdahound76]

The lug is integral according to their website.

why not get shouldered barrels and just torque them on?
For my $, the repeatablity of that is better. Its not like the rig you are looking to build is cheap to build or shoot, why skimp?

just thoughts. Keep it updated, I like to see what cool stuff is being done.

 

[mm509]

Mausingfield has an integral lug, no need for the switchlug. You can either get pre shouldered barrels or use savage style barrel nuts.

 

[samb300]

The benefit of the Switch Lug is one allen key and no other tools lets you swap barrels that are already headspaced. Both pre-shouldered barrels and barrel nuts require a vice and torque wrench or a headspace gauge...not exactly quick in comparison.

Their website is outdated compared to what they're showing on their facebook page. Like the picture I posted above, they are offering a version that works with integral-lug actions, and doesn't double the thickness.

I have an AI, which IMO is far superior (at a $ cost) to the Swtich Lug. So I have no skin in the game. Just sharing what I've been seeing online.

 

[317millhand]

You can get a mausingfield made without an integral lug as well

 

[bohem]

Good luck modifying the mausingfield to accept a SL.

1) The mausingfield is incredibly hard compared to other receivers. About 16-18 points hard on the RC scale than a Rem 700 action.
2) If you try it and fail, you've voided the warranty on the action entirely.
3) If you do manage to get it, you've voided the warranty on the action entirely

 

[Just Macca]

The benefit of the Switch Lug is one allen key and no other tools lets you swap barrels that are already headspaced. Both pre-shouldered barrels and barrel nuts require a vice and torque wrench or a headspace gauge...not exactly quick in comparison.

Their website is outdated compared to what they're showing on their facebook page. Like the picture I posted above, they are offering a version that works with integral-lug actions, and doesn't double the thickness.

I have an AI, which IMO is far superior (at a $ cost) to the Swtich Lug. So I have no skin in the game. Just sharing what I've been seeing online.

samb300 is on the money.

I love the Mausingfield and want one for a build. I want the switch lug as its a quick and simple solution to swap barrels without needing to pull my rifle apart or carry wrenchs etc.

I've considered AI. But the AXMC is heavy and solitary in purpose. Plus finding parts and someone to work on them where I live is not worth the hassle.

As for warranty, I understand its a gamble, but the juice is worth the squeeze. Thank you all for your help, I had no idea about the nee design of switch lug.

 

[SFree]

You can get a mausingfield made without an integral lug as well

Repeat... The Mausingfield may be purchased WITHOUT the integral lug. Ted set them up that way for the purpose of using the action with an Elisio tube chassis.

 

[Just Macca]

Repeat... The Mausingfield may be purchased WITHOUT the integral lug. Ted set them up that way for the purpose of using the action with an Elisio tube chassis.

Gotcha. May still pursue the option utilising the ring set up as opposed to the full lug.

Does anyone know the pin layout of the lugless Mausingfields? And if the LA's are available without a lug?

 

[samb300]

It sounds like pursuing the "lugless" action is the way to go. Josh at PVA (bohem) knows what he's talking about; if he says it's a bad idea to do on the integrated lug version, it's worth listening.

Do you need the switch barrel setup right off the bat? I have been following WTO for a bit, but it's still unproven on a large scale and personally I'm never a fan of being the first adopter of anything newly released to market (cars, phones, guns, etc).

Would it make sense to have a Mausingfield built up in your main caliber, and when you shoot that barrel out to replace it with a SL setup if indeed it proves itself worthy in the field?

 

[Just Macca]

It sounds like pursuing the "lugless" action is the way to go. Josh at PVA (bohem) knows what he's talking about; if he says it's a bad idea to do on the integrated lug version, it's worth listening.

Do you need the switch barrel setup right off the bat? I have been following WTO for a bit, but it's still unproven on a large scale and personally I'm never a fan of being the first adopter of anything newly released to market (cars, phones, guns, etc).

Would it make sense to have a Mausingfield built up in your main caliber, and when you shoot that barrel out to replace it with a SL setup if indeed it proves itself worthy in the field?

Yeah I think you, and Josh of course, have a really good point regarding the action hardness.

Perhaps I could see if I could get them to do me a one off with an integral lug and one pin hole at the 6 o'clock position.

I know what you mean about first adopters. I think I may try and do it in such a way so that I can discard the lug if necessary and go standard.

 

[winniethepooh]

I like the build except for the xray. Your balling out everywhere else why skimp on the chassis. I recently emails wto about a tikka switch barrel lug but they don't have any plans for one yet...maybe

 

[Just Macca]

I like the build except for the xray. Your balling out everywhere else why skimp on the chassis. I recently emails wto about a tikka switch barrel lug but they don't have any plans for one yet...maybe

Plan was to save weight, but just noticed the whiskey Gen V is polymer on the front end anyway. So duly noted.

 

[LRI]

When the Savage nut isn't sexy enough, lets pile up more stuff in front of the action. . .


I'll likely get some shit for this which is fine.

Ten years or so ago everyone wanted black guns because they were soooo modular and cool. drop two pins and your instantly transformed into whatever application you felt like. All one has to do is stack upper receivers up like firewood and were ready for any kind of war.

That was/is the plan. Then suddenly everyone realizes that isn't cool enough so lower receivers are purchased to complete the uppers.

Now its bolt guns. Lets fill a zip lock bag with bolt heads, extractors, and glorified pinch rings so we can do the same thing.

I would offer this for consideration: If anyone reading this is young enough to have plans for the rest of your life, chances are you're not done buying gun stuff yet. Were not buying guns to thwart communist aggression or to put food on our tables. It's a hobby, just like cars, fishing, etc. If the same logic were to apply we'd all buy one fishing pole with 5 different tips and reels to answer any need that might surface. . . Maybe one lure that we can put a variety of different hook sizes onto? A single golf club handle with a bag full of drivers, putters, and wedges maybe?

A novel concept might be to just buy what one can afford at the moment. Build that piece as best as you can afford. Go enjoy the shit out of it, then move onto the next project afterward. The amount of work to swap barrels, optics, zeroing, etc... is likely to make this venture not so appealing once you go through the trouble a couple times.

Just a thought. . .

 

[Massoud]

Chad has a good point about switch-able stuff. I used to love that stuff, and still do theoretically. In reality you never end up switching stuff, at least I never did. Whether it was optics or barrels or uppers, it just didn't happen. Our new SOTIC has the switchable barrels like a Savage, so the concept does live on and will probably be the standard going forward for the higher end rifles.

To add, the long action X-ray is a bit heavier than the regular X-ray because of the W-3 forend. However it's just a few ounces and the total weight is still just a bit over 3lbs which is still very light for a chassis. The W-3 forend adds a lot of usefulness so I would consider it worth the extra weight.

Thank you for considering our chassis.
Justin

 

[Rockfish Dave]

I swap barrels on 2 of my 3 actions and dread taking everything apart. If you do swap barrels this does look like a viable option. Seems like it would take some of the pain out of the process.

Swapping barrels isn't for everyone.

 

[RyanM]

I too find the benefit of a the switch barrel set up to be oversold. I have an AI AX with 308, 6.5X47, and a 6XC barrel. The AI is probably one of the easiest (it not the easiest) systems to switch barrels on and I still do it rarely. The POI is pretty consistent on the same barrel after a few round to settle in but all of the barrels differ in the POI and I do not enjoy adjusting the zero on my scope often.

I pretty much will put on the 6/6.5MM barrels at the start of the season and then take them off and put on the 308 barrel over the winter.

I do take the barrels off for cleaning which is pretty handy though.

 

[spife7980]

I do take the barrels off for cleaning which is pretty handy though.

This is the first thing Ive heard that has really made me want to get a switch barrel.

 

[Ledzep]

whew.. void warranty and poke holes in a MF to rely on 3 dainty little pins... Braver than me.

 

[5RWill]

Chad, didn't the toroidal lugs kind of void the ability to have a switch barrel setup on the mausingfield? At least without incorporating a barrel nut? I thought I read that in the mausgingfield vs TL3 thread you posted in.

I'd also agree switch barrel is probably more hassle than it's worth when it comes down to it. I'm still entertaining the thought just so i could have a short 6.5x47L & 6.5 SAUM now, rather than waiting and building the 6.5 SAUM down the road.

 

[LRI]

Chad, didn't the toroidal lugs kind of void the ability to have a switch barrel setup on the mausingfield? At least without incorporating a barrel nut? I thought I read that in the mausgingfield vs TL3 thread you posted in.

I'd also agree switch barrel is probably more hassle than it's worth when it comes down to it. I'm still entertaining the thought just so i could have a short 6.5x47L & 6.5 SAUM now, rather than waiting and building the 6.5 SAUM down the road.

??? Never said anything like this.

What I did say is that pre fitting shouldered barrels on Mausingfields can be hit or miss. You can do it and stay within SAAMI guidelines on HS, however if your trying to split hairs and mitigate case growth, it really takes the action in your hand.

 

[5RWill]

??? Never said anything like this.

What I did say is that pre fitting shouldered barrels on Mausingfields can be hit or miss. You can do it and stay within SAAMI guidelines on HS, however if your trying to split hairs and mitigate case growth, it really takes the action in your hand.

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying, i was recalling on memory and hadn't found the time to go look up the thread and couldn't remember the exact reasoning behind it.

 

[Rockfish Dave]

Ha ha! Okay, challenge accepted!

I've adopted the Surgeon CSR model with a Bighorn TL-3. I'll swap barrels just to show someone I can do it. I have two flats machined into the muzzle just behind the brake adapter. It costs $0 to have them added and I use an AutoZone $30 torque wrench and 11/16 crowsfoot to screw shouldered barrels on and off, at 40 ft/lbs. The barrels return to zero and take about 60-90 seconds to change. I am a chronic Horus/ Trmr user and use a 3x20 S&B MTC to lock the turrets on individual barrels zeros and hold for everything I shoot. Switching barrels are a non-issue and don't require any special tooling. I have taken 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place in the last 60 days with this TRUE switch barrel system.

I think part of the problem is people defining prefit barrels as switch barrels. A barrel nut'd prefit is really not a switch barrel anymore than a an action with two shouldered barrels requiring complete disassembley plus a few gunsmith tools to "switch" barrels. Using these so called switch barrels, no wonder folks aren't switching barrels as much as they envisioned themselves doing so.

Well said, your setup is one of the better ones I've seen. For pure convenience and speed it's hard to beat.

The remage barrel I have is the biggest PITA to install with the proper headspace. Good for changing barrels at home but not convenient.

 

[karagias]

All,

Chad from LRI made me aware of this post. After reading it, I can understand the desire for a barrel that is easily removed and replaced. I also think that I need to answer some questions about the use of the Switch Lug with a Mausingfield action. It is true that modifying a Mausingfield action in any way essentially voids the warranty. This policy exists for at least the two following reasons. First, it encourages the customer to contact me before doing anything to the action. The Mausingfield has been revised more than once because of good customer feedback. Secondly, the receiver of a Mausingfield is rather hard and difficult to machine. This is especially true for those who are not manufacturing experts.

That said, I do not recommend modifying a Mausingfield for use with the Switch Lug. Drilling holes parallel to the length of a Mausingfield receiver would require that the entire action assembly be tested for safety, and I have little or no confidence that it would pass if such modifications were made to the receiver. Holes drilled into the face of the receiver will undoubtedly result in stress concentrations that could potentially lead to fractures. I realize that many receivers have been drilled in order to pin recoil lugs but Mausingfield receivers were not among them. I would not recommend doing this to any receiver unless appropriate tests have first been conducted.

Now, in the spirit of competition and innovation, I can offer what I think is a properly designed barrel thread locking devise. Have a look at the pictures below.

The devise consists of a split collar and a nut. Encircling the bore (hole) of the split collar is a shallow conical seat against which a conical, spherical, toroidal, or otherwise axi-symmetrical form of the nut will come to bear. The screw of the split collar can then be tightened and thus effectively pre-load the barrel thread thereby immobilizing the receiver and the barrel with respect to one another. The advantage of such an arrangement over the Switch Lug is that it does not require one to drill holes into the face of a receiver. Additionally, it significantly pre-loads the barrel thread because as the split collar's screw is tightened, the collapsing action of the split collar's cone forces the barrel and the receiver in opposing directions with tremendous mechanical advantage. Threads are meant to be pre-loaded for multiple reasons, the least of which, in this particular application, is not the preservation of the positional relationship between barrel and receiver/scope.

Assembly is easy. Simply screw the nut onto the barrel thread as far as possible ensuring that the conical (or more generally, axi-symmetrical) seat of the nut is facing the receiver. Slip the split collar over the barrel thread so that the cone (countersink) is facing the nut. Screw the barrel into the receiver until it comes to stop against a go+ gage. Ensuring the the screw of the split collar is loose, turn the nut back towards the receiver so as to firmly sandwich the split collar between the receiver and the nut. Doing so should cause the split collar to open by a small amount. Finally, tighten the screw of the split collar to pre-load the barrel-receiver joint thus completing the assembly process.

I will have the first parts in hand within the next few days at which point I will post a video of the assembly and dis-assembly process. After that, we'll head to the range and see if we can shoot some tiny little groups. All parts have been designed to work with Savage pre-fit barrels having a 1.063-20 UN 2A thread approximately 1.500" in length (standard savage small shank.) I have also designed variants for barrels having shoulders.

Ted

 

[Massoud]

All,



Now, in the spirit of competition and innovation, I can offer what I think is a properly designed barrel thread locking devise. Have a look at the pictures below.



Ted

Hahaha, we have something like that coming as well. We've been refining it and added a couple twists but it's the same functionality.
Justin

 

[LRI]

Ted,
That is pretty cool! What would be the advantage of this system over a standard Savage barrel nut. It looks like for disassembley the collar and nut would come off with the barrel or fall free from the action. Would a person be able to remove or install a barrel with the receiver still in the stock?

What are your thoughts on simply screwing a shouldered barrel into a mausingfield and torquing it to 40 ft/lbs?

Silas

Ted doesn't make it a habit of frequenting The Hide so maybe I can help on this one. Advantage might be a bit aggressive. From a terminal performance perspective I don't think one outshines the other. We spoke on this topic almost 2 years ago now and the consensus then was more about convenience. That's really where this assembly starts to out pace the others. Go gauge and a single allen key; That's all a guy needs.


Personally, I think its pretty Soviet in appearance. That's my opinion. I feel guns have grown ever more distant from the elegance the makers once worked so hard to deliver. Today's vibe strikes me more as like a scene from Call of Duty.

 

[mm509]

Well, I like the ARC barrel nut / split ring.....A lot in fact.

Here is what I really like about it, the fact that I can switch barrels without a complete tear down (minus removing the trigger). I could literally do a barrel swap in the field, not that I "need" to, but that I can. I find I switch barrels a couple times a month, depending. This system facilitates barrel swaps with nothing more than a go gauge and allen key, no barrel vices, action wrenches, etc. Plus it is done correctly; tensioning the tenon threads!!

I am a materials guy by trade, specifically metals. I dont like thin wall thicknesses, especially at near thread valleys. Thin metal + cyclic life cycles = weak areas. To pin a recoil lug, is not the answer. Does it work? Yep. Will it never fail? Maybe. If it does and you are injured, are you liable? Absolutely. Your nearest cracker jack lawyer wouldn't touch that case.

In reply to Chad's "Soviet in Appearance"....is this ARC barrel nut / split ring hideous? Oooh fuck yeah!! It literally looks like a bag of burnt up assholes. Is it function over fashion? In my opinion, yes. I will absolutely try one of these, especially on my mausingfield, that I switch between WSM cases, Creedmoor, and Dasher. I am looking forward to seeing where this goes.

 

[Just Macca]

Well this thread went better than I could have hoped for, I have the perfect solution for my question. Thank you so much for your time Chad and Ted.

 

[ltfirehunter]

Hope this arrangement will be available for other actions also

 

[Ledzep]

Put another locking screw on the front collar so you only have to headspace once. I'm only half joking.

 

[CMP70306]

Could this be made to work with the current LA Mausingfield scope rail or would a shorter rail be required? Based on the CAD drawings it appears that a shorter rail flush with the front of the action would also be required.

Either way I'll take the new rail, split collar, 6 barrel nuts and that adjustable sear firing pin, just show me where to sign up.

 

[steve123]

Hold on here, what's up with this = "that adjustable sear firing pin" and what purpose does it serve???

Thanks for any info.

 

[Ledzep]

Hold on here, what's up with this = "that adjustable sear firing pin" and what purpose does it serve???

Thanks for any info.

The ARC Facebook page had a post on it a day or two ago. I think Ted's getting feelers for it to see if it's something to pursue. It was a replacement cocking assembly with adjustable sear position that lets you control where the sear engagement is relative to the bolt cycle path. In other words, time the engagement location so that there is no cock-on-close action going on, nor any cam/spring-driven bolt drop when chambering. Different aftermarket triggers have different sear lengths, or at least where the sear hits a particular cocking piece.

 

[CMP70306]

Edit: Ledzep beat me to the punch while I was typing and his is better, See above for explanation.

 

[samb300]

If barrel tenon pre-load is so important, then why is the current AI system so successful? Is it because the barrels headspace off the shoulder and it doesn't matter that there is only like 10 ft-lbs of torque with them being hand tight?

Or is the tenon pre-load only important on this Savage type of system where there is no shoulder?

 

[steve123]

The ARC Facebook page had a post on it a day or two ago. I think Ted's getting feelers for it to see if it's something to pursue. It was a replacement cocking assembly with adjustable sear position that lets you control where the sear engagement is relative to the bolt cycle path. In other words, time the engagement location so that there is no cock-on-close action going on, nor any cam/spring-driven bolt drop when chambering. Different aftermarket triggers have different sear lengths, or at least where the sear hits a particular cocking piece.

Thanks for explaining. That'd be cool.

 

[LRI]

Ted and I just spoke. He made sample parts last night. 1st article beta testers are in the works. I'm tasked with spinning up a couple barrels. The tennon design on these will be a little different than what most are thinking. It works better this way. Soon as I have a CAD model I'll run a couple.

More to follow. . .

 

[Just Macca]

Ted and I just spoke. He made sample parts last night. 1st article beta testers are in the works. I'm tasked with spinning up a couple barrels. The tennon design on these will be a little different than what most are thinking. It works better this way. Soon as I have a CAD model I'll run a couple.

More to follow. . .

Very interested. Looking forward to seeing how it all works.

 

[CMP70306]

Any update on the ARC collar design?

 

[b2948kevin]

Couple of interesting points after reading this thread:

1. Switch barrels, though theoretically interesting, generally require more effort than anticipated
2. Ted is a machinist first, and a shooter second. He's 100% engineer and 0% bullshit. Bravo.
3. I love seeing the LRI/ARC relationship and how they work together to put together some awesome products. It is rare to see such open cooperation like this, and the results are really good. Keep it up guys. There are a lot of us (silent majority) rooting for you.

 

[karagias]

If barrel tenon pre-load is so important, then why is the current AI system so successful? Is it because the barrels headspace off the shoulder and it doesn't matter that there is only like 10 ft-lbs of torque with them being hand tight?

Or is the tenon pre-load only important on this Savage type of system where there is no shoulder?

If I understand the AI system correctly, it actually does preload the thread. Imagine an internally threaded version of the Barloc split collar, essentially a split barrel nut that can be clamped around the barrel thread. When such a nut is brought to bear against the face of the receiver and clamped, the 60 degree thread forms of the barrel, receiver, and nut cooperate to separate the barrel and the receiver. The Barloc does what the AI system does but in a different way necessitated by the design of existing receivers and barrels. The AI folks are sharp cookies. I like them. Always have.

Ted

 

[karagias]

If I understand the AI system correctly, it actually does preload the thread. Imagine an internally threaded version of the Barloc split collar, essentially a split barrel nut that can be clamped around the barrel thread. When such a nut is brought to bear against the face of the receiver and clamped, the 60 degree thread forms of the barrel, receiver, and nut cooperate to separate the barrel and the receiver. The Barloc does what the AI system does but in a different way necessitated by the design of existing receivers and barrels. The AI folks are sharp cookies. I like them. Always have.

Ted

A barrel nut version of an AI system would necessitate timed threads. AI cleverly solved that by essentially cutting an integral nut into the receiver. Thread timing is a natural consequence in this case.