He spelled Centralia wrong.
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Getting sideways with the ATF is probably a badge of honor in some circles of this community. Would any of those companies’ customers not buy from them because of Vickers? I think a lot would buy more because of this situation.One question is how many of these businesses and organizations are still going to want to be linked on his website?
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Larry's Links
Blue Force Gear – Makers of very well designed and fabricated tactical slings for an amazingly wide variety of weapons. First class products. TangoDown – TangoDown makes high quality...www.vickerstactical.com
They already are. I understand AFT if denying post samples to dealers on MG's they deem as not appropriate for LE use. IE, 1919's, M2's, Vickers, MG'08's, and many others. They are also calling the LE that is on request letter and discussing did they really request the demo and why, do they intend to purchase.I think this is the tip of the iceberg. I see them getting these Demo guns out of circulation. Eforms it sounded great but like smartphones there is always an alternative reason and it wasn’t To speed things up.
Let’s see. He imported parts kits from Russia which were on a no import list and did business with Kalashnikov Concern which is a no no. Machine-guns with no serial numbers. FA guns with a letter from the local sheriff for demonstrations and then not demonstrating and how many FA guns do you need for podunkville PD? Evidently quite a few. I had a source from a mfg that told me what the scoop was when The investigation started because of a relationship they had with LAV.Thats why they should've just done what me and my neighbor do to show off in tiktok.
Just buy whatever demilled cool shit you want, reweld them bitches and machine whatever trigger/sear parts you need, etc. No paperwork, FFL/SOT, or tax stamp needed!
On a more serious note- cliff notes(tard version for those of us with fetal alcohol syndrome) on what Mr Vickers did?
Hunter Biden?Well, they didn’t exactly single Vickers out. If you find an unregistered machine gun in Grampa’s attic, your choices are surrender it to the ATF, or go to prison for a long time and surrender it to the ATF…
It is ironically refreshing that the ATF treats celebrities like Vickers the same as a nobody like me.
Maybe if I start doing drugs at some point in the future, I’ll get some leniency… IDK. Win some lose some.Hunter Biden?
THISLet’s see. He imported parts kits from Russia which were on a no import list and did business with Kalashnikov Concern which is a no no. Machine-guns with no serial numbers. FA guns with a letter from the local sheriff for demonstrations and then not demonstrating and how many FA guns do you need for podunkville PD? Evidently quite a few. I had a source from a mfg that told me what the scoop was when The investigation started because of a relationship they had with LAV.
real short version is greed and he FAFO. 2A or not you can’t import shit from countries that are on the no import list. Doesn’t matter what the items are.
While the above may well be true, Youtube is chock a block full of SOTs showing off their cool post ‘86 nontransferable machine guns. SOTs should know the laws, and while we don’t have to agree with them, we must accept that the ATF is paying attention when it comes to the NFA.
Falsifying letters to illegally import machine guns for personal enjoyment and/or resale? That’s not walking the line. That’s flaunting it while submitting paperwork to the ATF, telling them what you are doing.
The collective GunTube sphincter just shut so tight you couldn’t push a greased BB through it.
Illegal importation of restricted guns/parts caused the democrats to cheat? Or, scary machine guns scared Dems into making Biden the most popular pres ever? I’m very confused.THIS
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is why Biden is President!
No, Biden won because of Dominion.THIS
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is why Biden is President!
I personally consider it a badge of honor 100%Getting sideways with the ATF is probably a badge of honor in some circles of this community. Would any of those companies’ customers not buy from them because of Vickers? I think a lot would buy more because of this situation.
Fox bet $750M on that BS. How'd that work out?No, Biden won because of Dominion.
This... Is why his approval ratings is above zero.
On a more serious note- cliff notes(tard version for those of us with fetal alcohol syndrome) on what Mr Vickers did?
Look ^^^^^^ one of the people that believes that Fox news is not sleeping in the same bed as CNN, MSNBC and the rest of the propaganda arm of the government.Fox bet $750M on that BS. How'd that work out?
According to some of the smooth brains above, you’re the reason Biden is President.There are only two legal ways for a new (post-'86) machine gun to enter the chain of commerce in the US:
1) Sale to a military or law enforcement entity
2) Sale of a sample from a manufacturer or importer to another SOT for the purpose of demonstration to the above-stated entity
What Mr. Vickers admitted doing is participating in a conspiracy with law enforcement agents to import machine guns for the supposed purpose of demonstration, but actual for other intended purposes (read: flexing on the 'gram). Furthermore, he did the same with firearms that originated in countries currently under embargo (presumably Russia or China; I'm unaware of anything cool that would be imported from North Korea or Iran).
Now, many will exclaim that this has been going on for decades. All the fancy stuff with which the kids on YouTube are playing came from the manufacturer via a "law letter". There are usually hundreds of post-'86 samples for sale at any given time, and any knowledgeable person would have doubts that all of these were demonstrated to LE. What's different is that various three-letter agencies have generally gotten more active in pursuing cases of this type in recent years - it's not just the ATF, and it pre-dates Biden. The ATF has certainly picked up its enforcement actions in this area judging by other less-flashy prosecutions in recent years (included a different police chief and dealer who tried to transfer a M134 on a law letter). Furthermore, there was presumably a number of transactions involved over a period of time. Finally, the violation of an arms embargo - no matter how insignificant - adds a twist to the story.
I don't like that this happened, I don't think it's fair, I don't think justice has been served, and I don't think any actual harm has been addressed. But this is one of those situations where the guy in front of you on the freeway goes past a cop doing five over the speed limit and you roll through at ten over - both of you were in violation of the same stupid law but it's pretty clear only one of you will be getting a ticket at that moment.
I look forward to the glowie/boot-licker accusations because some posters here are stuck in that program loop.
I personally consider it a badge of honor 100%
Me and my neighbor do buy one get one AR DIAS's for Glock switches at the monthly gun show here. Its been a huge hit. Some biker looking dude said hes gonna introduce me to his super cool Border Patrol cousin visiting from Arizona next week so we can start doing some int'l business like my bro @Mr.BR ! Its gone be Ferraris and Ukrainian escorts for yours truly here soon gents!
Way I see it... moral of the story that ATF wants to get across: doing class 3 and destructive device business in the states is a big NO-NO! Doing class 3 & destructive biz across the border? A-ok!!!!
Only when it goes along with their agenda……Well, they didn’t exactly single Vickers out. If you find an unregistered machine gun in Grampa’s attic, your choices are surrender it to the ATF, or go to prison for a long time and surrender it to the ATF…
It is ironically refreshing that the ATF treats celebrities like Vickers the same as a nobody like me.
Greed doesn’t always mean money. You get 2 post samples with letters from the sheriff and it’s pretty cool and fun. Then you start pushing the envelope by getting a couple more and then a couple more and then a couple more until you have 33 samples (I don’t know how many he had it’s just a random number) for demonstration to a department with 4 guys on the force. He got greedy.Scratching my head on this entire event, will never believe Vicker’s was all about the cheese. Any time I see
” conspiracy “ in these indictments it causes my bullshit meter to kick in. Is there any indication that this possibly was a chapter out of Jameswesleyrawles book? A guy that has had a lifetime shooting anything anytime goes rogue, missing pieces to this story. Bay of Pigs coming to a town near you!
"Conspiracy" in the legal context means that you communicated or cooperated with other parties to commit a crime. It is a standard charge that you get pretty much by default unless you are Mr. Lone Wolf.Scratching my head on this entire event, will never believe Vicker’s was all about the cheese. Any time I see
” conspiracy “ in these indictments it causes my bullshit meter to kick in. Is there any indication that this possibly was a chapter out of Jameswesleyrawles book? A guy that has had a lifetime shooting anything anytime goes rogue, missing pieces to this story. Bay of Pigs coming to a town near you!
Even if your conspiracy bullshit were true, which it is not, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.Look ^^^^^^ one of the people that believes that Fox news is not sleeping in the same bed as CNN, MSNBC and the rest of the propaganda arm of the government.
You truly don't believe that Fox would expose the banana republic. Do you know how much they were given to promote the COVID propaganda?
Fox is controlled opposition
Anyone wonder when the whole of Washington DC is going to be charged with conspiracy? As it is said way too often, the Government does NOT like competition!!!"Conspiracy" in the legal context means that you communicated or cooperated with other parties to commit a crime. It is a standard charge that you get pretty much by default unless you are Mr. Lone Wolf.
Well laid out.There are only two legal ways for a new (post-'86) machine gun to enter the chain of commerce in the US:
1) Sale to a military or law enforcement entity
2) Sale of a sample from a manufacturer or importer to another SOT for the purpose of demonstration to the above-stated entity
What Mr. Vickers admitted doing is participating in a conspiracy with law enforcement agents to import machine guns for the supposed purpose of demonstration, but actual for other intended purposes (read: flexing on the 'gram). Furthermore, he did the same with firearms that originated in countries currently under embargo (presumably Russia or China; I'm unaware of anything cool that would be imported from North Korea or Iran).
Now, many will exclaim that this has been going on for decades. All the fancy stuff with which the kids on YouTube are playing came from the manufacturer via a "law letter". There are usually hundreds of post-'86 samples for sale at any given time, and any knowledgeable person would have doubts that all of these were demonstrated to LE. What's different is that various three-letter agencies have generally gotten more active in pursuing cases of this type in recent years - it's not just the ATF, and it pre-dates Biden. The ATF has certainly picked up its enforcement actions in this area judging by other less-flashy prosecutions in recent years (included a different police chief and dealer who tried to transfer a M134 on a law letter). Furthermore, there was presumably a number of transactions involved over a period of time. Finally, the violation of an arms embargo - no matter how insignificant - adds a twist to the story.
I don't like that this happened, I don't think it's fair, I don't think justice has been served, and I don't think any actual harm has been addressed. But this is one of those situations where the guy in front of you on the freeway goes past a cop doing five over the speed limit and you roll through at ten over - both of you were in violation of the same stupid law but it's pretty clear only one of you will be getting a ticket at that moment.
I look forward to the glowie/boot-licker accusations because some posters here are stuck in that program loop.
KudosThis is not to say that these gentlemen were not guilty of a crime. But even a pedestrian view of leftist progressive Marxist theory understands that the generation of an infinite mass of rules and regulations and laws is necessary to their ends. Only after these rules are on the books can the maxim "Show me the man, I will show you the crime" be applied to everyone. Including you. And me. And everyone reading this.
Well laid out.
There is a rough analog that which we are all familiar. It is the NY v Trump case where the allegations are that Trump overstated real estate values.
In both the Trump case and the Vickers case, it is quite difficult to identify the damaged party.
What is not difficult to identify is the mis-allocation of manpower, brainpower, time, effort, energy, legal billing hours that brought both of these cases to what is certainly a judge-shopped courtroom.
This is not to say that these gentlemen were not guilty of a crime. But even a pedestrian view of leftist progressive Marxist theory understands that the generation of an infinite mass of rules and regulations and laws is necessary to their ends. Only after these rules are on the books can the maxim "Show me the man, I will show you the crime" be applied to everyone. Including you. And me. And everyone reading this.
FAFO may apply to this sad story to a greater or lesser extent. But only the terminally naive think that they could escape a similar attack by a tyrannical prosecution.
A lot going on there. A lot.Can you make a compelling case or even prove that LAV is the victim of "tyrannical prosecution" like Trump?
I always thought of LAV as a cool guy and I like the two point slings named after him. HOWEVER, I have no problem with him getting prosecuted and punished to the full extend of the law similar to the guy who passed me on the right going 50 over the speed limit finally getting pulled over and relegated to public transportation for a while. That speed limit maybe stupid but going rogue is even more retarded.
(My initial assumption that LAV is an upstanding guy was confirmed by his guilty plea. I hate nothing more than guys that think they are smarter and above the law and then turn into whining bitches when caught.)
Yes, our current justice system is over-bloated, biased and increasingly agenda driven but it is orders of magnitude better than anarchy. If you don't believe me, ask the folks from the former CHAZ. They thought they could and should do everything they wanted -laws be dammed- and that turned into mayhem in a few days.
The NFA contains a bunch of bullshit that needs to go but I do not think anyone could convince me that legal full auto for everyone would be a good idea at this stage of our society. It is also never going to happen because of the class 3 lobby whose expensive toys would become near worthless overnight.
If it is discussed ad nauseam on arfcom how the intent of the NFA law can be circumvented, in this case pertaining to the creation of post 86 machine guns, then maybe a smart person should not go down this road of predictable legal trouble.
Newsflash: The NFA is constitutional until the SCOTUS decides otherwise.You have no problem with him being prosecuted and punished "to the full extent of the law" for breaking an unconstitutional law?
Man with friends like you who needs enemies.
This is like saying you have no problem with an abusive husband violating a restraining order to beat his wife because the husband said it was OK to ignore the restraining order.
You are like the wife who accepts her husbands beating because "she's afraid to live alone"...
Scratching my head on this entire event, will never believe Vicker’s was all about the cheese. Any time I see
” conspiracy “ in these indictments it causes my bullshit meter to kick in. Is there any indication that this possibly was a chapter out of Jameswesleyrawles book? A guy that has had a lifetime shooting anything anytime goes rogue, missing pieces to this story. Bay of Pigs coming to a town near you!
"Conspiracy" in the legal context means that you communicated or cooperated with other parties to commit a crime. It is a standard charge that you get pretty much by default unless you are Mr. Lone Wolf.
Or just like follow the laws and they won't come knocking. Obviously, he committed some serious crimes that he plead guilty to. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Wow. You seem quite confident in the absoluteness of this post.Let’s see. He imported parts kits from Russia which were on a no import list and did business with Kalashnikov Concern which is a no no. Machine-guns with no serial numbers. FA guns with a letter from the local sheriff for demonstrations and then not demonstrating and how many FA guns do you need for podunkville PD? Evidently quite a few. I had a source from a mfg that told me what the scoop was when The investigation started because of a relationship they had with LAV.
real short version is greed and he FAFO. 2A or not you can’t import shit from countries that are on the no import list. Doesn’t matter what the items are.
.....one more "Protector of the Realm"! Do you want nice things, or do you want sugar free bubble gum to protect your family?Or just like follow the laws and they won't come knocking. Obviously, he committed some serious crimes that he plead guilty to. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Brianf used his daddy’s money to try and start a gun company. He’s too good to get down into the nuts and bolts of things. Theis and his wife were writing company checks for whatever they wanted. He convinced brianf to buy a big ass commercial zero turn to mow the 25 square feet of grass He then used it to mow yards for Cash all week while brian stayed in new yawkActual? I know most of the story but I must have missed the lawn mower part.
Go suck a dick fedOr just like follow the laws and they won't come knocking. Obviously, he committed some serious crimes that he plead guilty to. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Brianf used his daddy’s money to try and start a gun company. He’s too good to get down into the nuts and bolts of things. Theis and his wife were writing company checks for whatever they wanted. He convinced brianf to buy a big ass commercial zero turn to mow the 25 square feet of grass He then used it to mow yards for Cash all week while brian stayed in new yawk
And dumb fuck republicans going along with it.Clearly the same folks that brought you covid regulations would never fuck the eyes out of a highly visible gun advocate.
Example: you can go to walmart but not church
Weird parallel, fucking the consitution at will in real time.
R
Thank you sir.There are only two legal ways for a new (post-'86) machine gun to enter the chain of commerce in the US:
1) Sale to a military or law enforcement entity
2) Sale of a sample from a manufacturer or importer to another SOT for the purpose of demonstration to the above-stated entity
What Mr. Vickers admitted doing is participating in a conspiracy with law enforcement agents to import machine guns for the supposed purpose of demonstration, but actual for other intended purposes (read: flexing on the 'gram). Furthermore, he did the same with firearms that originated in countries currently under embargo (presumably Russia or China; I'm unaware of anything cool that would be imported from North Korea or Iran).
Now, many will exclaim that this has been going on for decades. All the fancy stuff with which the kids on YouTube are playing came from the manufacturer via a "law letter". There are usually hundreds of post-'86 samples for sale at any given time, and any knowledgeable person would have doubts that all of these were demonstrated to LE. What's different is that various three-letter agencies have generally gotten more active in pursuing cases of this type in recent years - it's not just the ATF, and it pre-dates Biden. The ATF has certainly picked up its enforcement actions in this area judging by other less-flashy prosecutions in recent years (included a different police chief and dealer who tried to transfer a M134 on a law letter). Furthermore, there was presumably a number of transactions involved over a period of time. Finally, the violation of an arms embargo - no matter how insignificant - adds a twist to the story.
I don't like that this happened, I don't think it's fair, I don't think justice has been served, and I don't think any actual harm has been addressed. But this is one of those situations where the guy in front of you on the freeway goes past a cop doing five over the speed limit and you roll through at ten over - both of you were in violation of the same stupid law but it's pretty clear only one of you will be getting a ticket at that moment.
I look forward to the glowie/boot-licker accusations because some posters here are stuck in that program loop.
Another one of the problems is that vickers conspired with some sheriffs. Dumb move.
@wade2big has been warning us for a while about this, and he was right.
Well laid out.
There is a rough analog that which we are all familiar. It is the NY v Trump case where the allegations are that Trump overstated real estate values.
In both the Trump case and the Vickers case, it is quite difficult to identify the damaged party.
What is not difficult to identify is the mis-allocation of manpower, brainpower, time, effort, energy, legal billing hours that brought both of these cases to what is certainly a judge-shopped courtroom.
This is not to say that these gentlemen were not guilty of a crime. But even a pedestrian view of leftist progressive Marxist theory understands that the generation of an infinite mass of rules and regulations and laws is necessary to their ends. Only after these rules are on the books can the maxim "Show me the man, I will show you the crime" be applied to everyone. Including you. And me. And everyone reading this.
FAFO may apply to this sad story to a greater or lesser extent. But only the terminally naive think that they could escape a similar attack by a tyrannical prosecution.
Thank you sir.
But... sooo.... how'd he get caught? Did it raise some red flags when he tried to do business with Kalash Concern? Or..?? (keep in mind the fetal alcohol syndromeI aint got brainpower like you and @sirhrmechanic )
Speaking of Kalash Concern, if biz with them is a no-go, how come we can get those semi auto Vityaz here in the states? And I aint talking about the PSA AK-V.. but the legit ones. Can't remember the exact model/name that they're called here.. the semi auto 9mm AK Vityaz clones. Thought them were imported from Kalashnikov Concern??
Also @E. Bryant off topic I know.. but I remember your CMMG Banshee barrel not having concentric threads or some such so had to chuck it into the lathe and fix that.. how much trouble would it be to get a 10mm Banshee, pick up a 9mm Banshee barrel, rechamber to 9x25 Dillon, and throw that barrel in the 10mm? 8-9" barrel 9x25 Dillon would make one helluva PDW IMO! 115's @ damn near 1900+ fps I'd reckon?
No....no child.....that's not how the constitution works at all....
I think you parsed this out quite well. The differences are indeed innumerable. Thanks for dwelling in the minutia.I think the big difference in the two cases is that Vickers admitted to violating a federal law, and the NY state attorney general is suing Trump in civil court for allegedly misstating property values (a suit would could have easily be brought by his organization's counterparties if they felt fraud has occurred). Two very different things unless you're trying to make broad sweeping political connections, in which case there will presumably be no acceptable counterargument so any debate is pointless.