Quick question guys, Sierra says they dont recommend their Match King bullets be used for hunting, Is it because they are to soft and may explode on impact, or to hard and will most likely pass through the animal without expanding?????
175 Sierra Match King
- Thread starter UH-1H Huey
- Start date
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
Might not penetrate and expand in a controlled manner like a hunting bullet will. Some people use them but most do not. If you want a match bullet for hunting try the hornady amax I hear people have good luck with them.
Might not penetrate and expand in a controlled manner like a hunting bullet will. Some people use them but most do not. If you want a match bullet for hunting try the hornady amax I hear people have good luck with them.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
I can attest to the fact that those bullets work really well on humans, but as for big game I'm not totally sure as to their effectiveness. I kind of had the same question and posed it to Berger Bullets because I saw that they offered the 175 grn VLD in a hunting version as well as a target version. The answer I got was that the bullets' jacket was specifically designed to retain more weight as the bullet expanded and transferred it's KE. The target VLD's jackets were not as strong, obviously designed for punching paper.
I would guess that Sierra doesn't recommend the use of the Matchking on game due to the lack of testing as well as simply that the bullet wasn't designed to reliably expand while retaining mass. Some friends I've talked to have killed elk and mule deer with the Matchking and they said it worked very well. As with any hunting scenario, shot placement is absolutely key. I've seen 200+ lb mule deer killed with 90 grn .243 Winchesters. If that bullet is placed where it needs to go, not much is going to keep that animal alive.
I can attest to the fact that those bullets work really well on humans, but as for big game I'm not totally sure as to their effectiveness. I kind of had the same question and posed it to Berger Bullets because I saw that they offered the 175 grn VLD in a hunting version as well as a target version. The answer I got was that the bullets' jacket was specifically designed to retain more weight as the bullet expanded and transferred it's KE. The target VLD's jackets were not as strong, obviously designed for punching paper.
I would guess that Sierra doesn't recommend the use of the Matchking on game due to the lack of testing as well as simply that the bullet wasn't designed to reliably expand while retaining mass. Some friends I've talked to have killed elk and mule deer with the Matchking and they said it worked very well. As with any hunting scenario, shot placement is absolutely key. I've seen 200+ lb mule deer killed with 90 grn .243 Winchesters. If that bullet is placed where it needs to go, not much is going to keep that animal alive.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Svwm_k9hYk&feature=related"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Svwm_k9hYk&feature=related" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Sierra does not reccomend them for hunting. They make them. Why argue? Plenty of deer get killed every year with them and plenty of deer run off to never be found.
They don't reccomend them because they may expand and they may not. They are designed to punch paper and slap steel. Plenty will tell you any number of things to justify using them because there is always some folks that think they are smarter than bullet designers. A matchking that hits brain or spine or heart will always kill the animal. A bullet that passes cleanly through the lungs could end in one hell of a tracking job.
SMK's have a relatively hard core in comparison to an actual hunting bullet. This subject is very contentious and is endlessly debated.
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Svwm_k9hYk&feature=related"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Svwm_k9hYk&feature=related" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Sierra does not reccomend them for hunting. They make them. Why argue? Plenty of deer get killed every year with them and plenty of deer run off to never be found.
They don't reccomend them because they may expand and they may not. They are designed to punch paper and slap steel. Plenty will tell you any number of things to justify using them because there is always some folks that think they are smarter than bullet designers. A matchking that hits brain or spine or heart will always kill the animal. A bullet that passes cleanly through the lungs could end in one hell of a tracking job.
SMK's have a relatively hard core in comparison to an actual hunting bullet. This subject is very contentious and is endlessly debated.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
I thank one reason that the ski is not recommend for hunting is it is used in the military. The military can't use hunting bullets to kill people.
I thank one reason that the ski is not recommend for hunting is it is used in the military. The military can't use hunting bullets to kill people.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
Oh my goodness! They don't recommend it because they don't want nitwits who chose a target bullet bitching because the big one got away after being shot with their bullet. It is simply about negative publicity. Sierra seeks to avoid it, of course.
smk's penetrate and do not expand despite being a hollow point because they were never designed to be hunting bullets. Smk's also bend and glance off parts like bone, changing direction, becoming unpredictable and hence unreliable in destruction.
Sierra makes hunting bullets. They're called Gamekings. Target bullets are called Matchkings. Get it?
Oh my goodness! They don't recommend it because they don't want nitwits who chose a target bullet bitching because the big one got away after being shot with their bullet. It is simply about negative publicity. Sierra seeks to avoid it, of course.
smk's penetrate and do not expand despite being a hollow point because they were never designed to be hunting bullets. Smk's also bend and glance off parts like bone, changing direction, becoming unpredictable and hence unreliable in destruction.
Sierra makes hunting bullets. They're called Gamekings. Target bullets are called Matchkings. Get it?
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
This topic comes up every year...
Believe it or not, I have found the GAMEkings to be more accurate than the MATCH kings....in a 1/12 twist barrel....
Shot a 2" group at 550 yards with them.........
This topic comes up every year...
Believe it or not, I have found the GAMEkings to be more accurate than the MATCH kings....in a 1/12 twist barrel....
Shot a 2" group at 550 yards with them.........
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic comes up every year...
Believe it or not, I have found the GAMEkings to be more accurate than the MATCH kings....in a 1/12 twist barrel....
Shot a 2" group at 550 yards with them.........
</div></div>
Wait just one second. You wouldn't be suggesting that someone should use GAME-King ammo for animals (also known as game), and MATCH-King ammo for shooting matches (targets/competitions) would you? It's almost like Sierra designed 2 different bullets for 2 different jobs. They even named them according to their intended use.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic comes up every year...
Believe it or not, I have found the GAMEkings to be more accurate than the MATCH kings....in a 1/12 twist barrel....
Shot a 2" group at 550 yards with them.........
</div></div>
Wait just one second. You wouldn't be suggesting that someone should use GAME-King ammo for animals (also known as game), and MATCH-King ammo for shooting matches (targets/competitions) would you? It's almost like Sierra designed 2 different bullets for 2 different jobs. They even named them according to their intended use.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
Why even take a chance with a bullet designed for punching paper? I love to hunt and also love to eat deer. I also believe that I have a responsibility to the animal to do everything within my power to make a kill as ethically as possible. If that means I have to put out a few extra bucks and a little more time working up a hunting load then so be it.
Why even take a chance with a bullet designed for punching paper? I love to hunt and also love to eat deer. I also believe that I have a responsibility to the animal to do everything within my power to make a kill as ethically as possible. If that means I have to put out a few extra bucks and a little more time working up a hunting load then so be it.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
Southwest makes game kings that match the SMK
http://www.southwestammunition.com/product_p/308lrh.htm
Southwest makes game kings that match the SMK
http://www.southwestammunition.com/product_p/308lrh.htm
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic comes up every year...
Believe it or not, I have found the GAMEkings to be more accurate than the MATCH kings....in a 1/12 twist barrel....
Shot a 2" group at 550 yards with them.........
</div></div>
I have found this to be true as well. I cannot understand why people insist on continueing the use of SMKs for hunting.
I do not often tell this story but here goes, who gives a shit...I know.
When I was young and really stupid I had a 243win I had decided would be a good idea to load up with 70gr SMKs. They were FAST and all young guys know, and some old ones, that SPEED is what kills
This was long before the internet so I didn't have information at my fingertips other than Sierra's disclaimer and let's face it; who really believes that shit huh? I admit the first few deer I killed with that load died spectacular deaths. The first I shot, a 7 pointer ~160lbs, took the round through both lungs blowing a hand size chunk of same out the ENTRANCE hole, he staggered about 10ft and fell over. It was obvious immediately why Sierra did not want me using these bullets, they kill too quickly...silly bulletsmiths. Fast forward 2or 3 more deer and a crisp November morning. I decided to ride the fields before work and spotted one just outside the dog fennel at about 200yd. This was litterally the deer of my life, 19-3/4 inside spread a really impressive coastal plains Carolina buck likely weighed over 200lbs, also a rarity. Put the duplex on his shoulder because his lungs were in the tall grass. At the crack of the rifle he disapeared, there was no question in my mind I hit him. I went straight to the spot and there was no question I had hit him but no deer. Blood and hair on the fennels plenty....for a short distance. 50yds in and I am hunting for FLECKS not pools. I am going to be late for work so I leave. At lunch the crew just happened to be on the north end of the county...imagine that. The 3 of us went back to the spot and tracked him to the creek ~400yds I knew I couldn't track him in the dark with such a cold trail after work so I wrote him off with a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Long story short 2 weeks later a friend asked me if I heard about the buck that was killed over off 903. I said no and he comenced to telling me the damndest thing. Seems this guy killed one with 19-3/4 inch spread with an ugly festering hole in his shoulder..........."No shit", I say. I went straight to the 85gr Nosler Solid Base and never looked back.
I know that a 70gr SMK is not a 168 but I told the story to make a point. The one that gets away will not be that spike or doe tag.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic comes up every year...
Believe it or not, I have found the GAMEkings to be more accurate than the MATCH kings....in a 1/12 twist barrel....
Shot a 2" group at 550 yards with them.........
I have found this to be true as well. I cannot understand why people insist on continueing the use of SMKs for hunting.
I do not often tell this story but here goes, who gives a shit...I know.
When I was young and really stupid I had a 243win I had decided would be a good idea to load up with 70gr SMKs. They were FAST and all young guys know, and some old ones, that SPEED is what kills
I know that a 70gr SMK is not a 168 but I told the story to make a point. The one that gets away will not be that spike or doe tag.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic comes up every year...
Believe it or not, I have found the GAMEkings to be more accurate than the MATCH kings....in a 1/12 twist barrel....
Shot a 2" group at 550 yards with them.........
</div></div>
I too found the Gamekings to be very accurate in my 7mag. And yea, they kill stuff good, too.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This topic comes up every year...
Believe it or not, I have found the GAMEkings to be more accurate than the MATCH kings....in a 1/12 twist barrel....
Shot a 2" group at 550 yards with them.........
</div></div>
I too found the Gamekings to be very accurate in my 7mag. And yea, they kill stuff good, too.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
Not to add fuel to the fire... But to answer the question of "Why do people bring this up":
Obviously, its because they have developed a good shooting load with a Matchking, and know the velocity, the trajectory, and loading "quirks" with it. They just know how to make known-good ammo with it, and how to shoot it. Lets face it: Doing "good" load development that leaves you with the warm fuzzies that you have a reliable loading is time consuming. Beyond that, many people just don't have the time/wherewithall to validate such a load and get GOOD dope for it.
So, would you rather hunt with a bullet with known-good external ballistics and unknown terminal ballistics..... Or, a bullet with unknown external ballistics and known-good terminal ballistics?
I would choose the bullet I KNOW I can score a good hit with. Obviously, I'm referring to hunting at *longer* ranges than many typical deer-hunters take shots at. I personally don't like woods/brush hunting. I like to lay in the grass off a 100 acre beanfield and KNOW that I can hit any deer that steps foot on the field.
All that said, I agree 100% that one is well advised to hunt with a good hunting bullet, not a good target bullet. Being there is still time before rifle season begins to develop a hunting load. My advice for anyone that has a good SMK load, is to buy some SGKs of the same/close weight develop a load.
Personally, I've found SMKs to be more accurate than SGKs, but the SGK is no slouch.
Not to add fuel to the fire... But to answer the question of "Why do people bring this up":
Obviously, its because they have developed a good shooting load with a Matchking, and know the velocity, the trajectory, and loading "quirks" with it. They just know how to make known-good ammo with it, and how to shoot it. Lets face it: Doing "good" load development that leaves you with the warm fuzzies that you have a reliable loading is time consuming. Beyond that, many people just don't have the time/wherewithall to validate such a load and get GOOD dope for it.
So, would you rather hunt with a bullet with known-good external ballistics and unknown terminal ballistics..... Or, a bullet with unknown external ballistics and known-good terminal ballistics?
I would choose the bullet I KNOW I can score a good hit with. Obviously, I'm referring to hunting at *longer* ranges than many typical deer-hunters take shots at. I personally don't like woods/brush hunting. I like to lay in the grass off a 100 acre beanfield and KNOW that I can hit any deer that steps foot on the field.
All that said, I agree 100% that one is well advised to hunt with a good hunting bullet, not a good target bullet. Being there is still time before rifle season begins to develop a hunting load. My advice for anyone that has a good SMK load, is to buy some SGKs of the same/close weight develop a load.
Personally, I've found SMKs to be more accurate than SGKs, but the SGK is no slouch.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
I've killed my share of deer with 175's, never had one get away. I suppose I should make a different load for a game bullet and work out the POI and trajectory differences- honestly, at the ranges I hunt it shouldn't make a difference, but I tend to work up one good load and then keep loading them until I have a reason to change. Maybe it'll bite me in the butt one day, but so far I have no complaints.
Maybe I'm different than most, but sitting in a deer stand and shooting a deer with a boring rifle with a boring bullet is, well, boring. I don't have access to a place I can stalk, so I hunt stands when I hunt- I'm just shooting food anyway, not outwitting Old Mossy. I want to know how my gear will perform, just for sheer curiosity if nothing else. I just killed a deer with my 3 gun rifle with a 62gr Barnes, it performed flawlessly. The next one will probably be with a .260 and a 130 Berger, but I really want to shoot one with my carry pistol.
I've killed my share of deer with 175's, never had one get away. I suppose I should make a different load for a game bullet and work out the POI and trajectory differences- honestly, at the ranges I hunt it shouldn't make a difference, but I tend to work up one good load and then keep loading them until I have a reason to change. Maybe it'll bite me in the butt one day, but so far I have no complaints.
Maybe I'm different than most, but sitting in a deer stand and shooting a deer with a boring rifle with a boring bullet is, well, boring. I don't have access to a place I can stalk, so I hunt stands when I hunt- I'm just shooting food anyway, not outwitting Old Mossy. I want to know how my gear will perform, just for sheer curiosity if nothing else. I just killed a deer with my 3 gun rifle with a 62gr Barnes, it performed flawlessly. The next one will probably be with a .260 and a 130 Berger, but I really want to shoot one with my carry pistol.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
Just to beat a little more, an already deceased horse, I don't shoot the 175's because I don't have a range long enough to justify them. But up to 300 yds, the 165 Gamekings shoot to the same POA as the 168 Matchkings in both my .308 and '06. The hollowpoint Gamekings are devastating...
Just to beat a little more, an already deceased horse, I don't shoot the 175's because I don't have a range long enough to justify them. But up to 300 yds, the 165 Gamekings shoot to the same POA as the 168 Matchkings in both my .308 and '06. The hollowpoint Gamekings are devastating...
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm.
Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
Nothing of the sort, wer're just giving our opinions. Normally this conversation isn't so civil.
Nothing of the sort, wer're just giving our opinions. Normally this conversation isn't so civil.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
And good honest civil gentleman like opinions is what I would like to hear. And most of what is on this thread is, except for a few smartass remarks,
And good honest civil gentleman like opinions is what I would like to hear. And most of what is on this thread is, except for a few smartass remarks,
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
Red sc, I am not directing this towards you, your answers were civil and not condescending.
Red sc, I am not directing this towards you, your answers were civil and not condescending.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
for my friends and myself we use them for deer.and all shoots have always been DRT shoots useing them.but will add that the biggest deer to date was around 200#.maybe some of the guys here are able to shoot bigger deer.
why not just take them and try them to see for your self.
for my friends and myself we use them for deer.and all shoots have always been DRT shoots useing them.but will add that the biggest deer to date was around 200#.maybe some of the guys here are able to shoot bigger deer.
why not just take them and try them to see for your self.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And good honest civil gentleman like opinions is what I would like to hear. And most of what is on this thread is, except for a few smartass remarks, </div></div>
I tried to be as civil as I could, the facepalm was not in direct response to your question but what I knew it might spawn. I can show you smartassed if you like, believe me I am talented in that arena, ask around.
Turbo you and I most often agree, but a man that shoots often and enough to be proficient shouldn't have any trouble developing a proper hunting load most calibers carry a shitload of suitable hunting bullets to at least get close enough ballistics. I was a bean field hunter as well but rare was the time I needed to stretch my cartridge far beyond PBR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And good honest civil gentleman like opinions is what I would like to hear. And most of what is on this thread is, except for a few smartass remarks, </div></div>
I tried to be as civil as I could, the facepalm was not in direct response to your question but what I knew it might spawn. I can show you smartassed if you like, believe me I am talented in that arena, ask around.
Turbo you and I most often agree, but a man that shoots often and enough to be proficient shouldn't have any trouble developing a proper hunting load most calibers carry a shitload of suitable hunting bullets to at least get close enough ballistics. I was a bean field hunter as well but rare was the time I needed to stretch my cartridge far beyond PBR.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
I dont really want to set up a new load for the 308, and like i said, it is going out west with me for a back up gun, and if i get a chance i may use it for coyotes while I'm out there. It probably wont leave the lodge.
I dont really want to set up a new load for the 308, and like i said, it is going out west with me for a back up gun, and if i get a chance i may use it for coyotes while I'm out there. It probably wont leave the lodge.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
If it is a backup gun then you have to shoot what you have to shoot in the thing...no worries. As far as coyotes shoot em with match kings. Nuisance animal is another story. Good luck and have fun out west.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2815514&gonew=1#UNREAD
I knew this was here somewhere. Actually 2 threads going on this subject. I couldn't find it last nite. Too many adult beverages.
If it is a backup gun then you have to shoot what you have to shoot in the thing...no worries. As far as coyotes shoot em with match kings. Nuisance animal is another story. Good luck and have fun out west.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2815514&gonew=1#UNREAD
I knew this was here somewhere. Actually 2 threads going on this subject. I couldn't find it last nite. Too many adult beverages.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm. </div></div>
Not busting your balls, just pointing out a huge hole in your logic, or lack there of. Can I use a baseball bat to play cricket? Sure I can, but it's not the right tool for the job. Difference is, if you use a baseball bat to play cricket, you'll just look foolish. You use the wrong tool to try to take an animal, you could wound it, and not kill it. The whole idea is to be a <span style="font-weight: bold">RESPONSIBLE </span>hunter, not some jackass who runs around the woods shooting deer in the ass and letting them get away, only to get infected and die a slow painful death.
Your claim that you don't have time to develop another load, is a bullshit excuse. You develop a target load for 1/2 MOA or better. You develop a hunting load for 1 MOA. One trip to the range and you can have an MOA load with a legitimate hunting bullet. Do the job right, use the right tools, be a responsible hunter, and shoot for a humane kill.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm. </div></div>
Not busting your balls, just pointing out a huge hole in your logic, or lack there of. Can I use a baseball bat to play cricket? Sure I can, but it's not the right tool for the job. Difference is, if you use a baseball bat to play cricket, you'll just look foolish. You use the wrong tool to try to take an animal, you could wound it, and not kill it. The whole idea is to be a <span style="font-weight: bold">RESPONSIBLE </span>hunter, not some jackass who runs around the woods shooting deer in the ass and letting them get away, only to get infected and die a slow painful death.
Your claim that you don't have time to develop another load, is a bullshit excuse. You develop a target load for 1/2 MOA or better. You develop a hunting load for 1 MOA. One trip to the range and you can have an MOA load with a legitimate hunting bullet. Do the job right, use the right tools, be a responsible hunter, and shoot for a humane kill.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm. </div></div>.
Why do you care?
I kill with SMK's and will continue to do so. What people thinks matters little, role how you want to.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm. </div></div>.
Why do you care?
I kill with SMK's and will continue to do so. What people thinks matters little, role how you want to.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. </div></div>
My opinion... the only animal I have taken with a 175smk is one raccoon at 30 feet and one ground hog at 90 yards. My muzzle velocity was 2550 as fired from a stock Remington tactical. Understand these are small animals... I saw zero expansion in both. The raccoon was a running shot, well more of a loping shot seeing as they don’t really run, it was hit in the chest and continued to go another 30 yards before giving into night. The ground hog was an ear shot, on both sides, it took me a few minutes of close inspection to figure that out, but ya, he dropped right where he stood watching me out of the corner of his eye as they like to do. I personally like to use berger vld's for deer. They hit and 2.5-3 inches later rip apart in a coned, shaped charge like fashion. They will quite literally tear a ground hog in half. Not all of my SMK hits have been the same, I took another nuisance coon with a 69 smk (2810fps) from a 223 and it exploded just like the bergers do. I have no experience on game with the A-max but it is made to expand so you would be gtg in that regard. I have downed one mule deer with the 155 scenar at 2850fps at the muzzle. The deer was quartering toward and the bullet entered forward in the left front shoulder and cut across 15-20" of deer to exit out the back of the right rib cage. Everything in that animal was liquefied, yet he stood leg locked for several seconds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. </div></div>
My opinion... the only animal I have taken with a 175smk is one raccoon at 30 feet and one ground hog at 90 yards. My muzzle velocity was 2550 as fired from a stock Remington tactical. Understand these are small animals... I saw zero expansion in both. The raccoon was a running shot, well more of a loping shot seeing as they don’t really run, it was hit in the chest and continued to go another 30 yards before giving into night. The ground hog was an ear shot, on both sides, it took me a few minutes of close inspection to figure that out, but ya, he dropped right where he stood watching me out of the corner of his eye as they like to do. I personally like to use berger vld's for deer. They hit and 2.5-3 inches later rip apart in a coned, shaped charge like fashion. They will quite literally tear a ground hog in half. Not all of my SMK hits have been the same, I took another nuisance coon with a 69 smk (2810fps) from a 223 and it exploded just like the bergers do. I have no experience on game with the A-max but it is made to expand so you would be gtg in that regard. I have downed one mule deer with the 155 scenar at 2850fps at the muzzle. The deer was quartering toward and the bullet entered forward in the left front shoulder and cut across 15-20" of deer to exit out the back of the right rib cage. Everything in that animal was liquefied, yet he stood leg locked for several seconds.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Why do you care?
<span style="color: #FF0000">I kill with SMK's and will continue to do so. What people thinks matters little, role how you want to.</span> </div></div>
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case. A disclaimer on every page of a loading manual is useless.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Why do you care?
<span style="color: #FF0000">I kill with SMK's and will continue to do so. What people thinks matters little, role how you want to.</span> </div></div>
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case. A disclaimer on every page of a loading manual is useless.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm. </div></div>
Uh, welcome to the kinder, gentler version of SH. If the comments in this thread hurt your feelings you would have never survived the bashing it would have produced three months ago.
You are in a strongly opinionated, not to mention experienced world here. You must learn to chip thru the unpleasantness and learn the lesson being imparted.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm. </div></div>
Uh, welcome to the kinder, gentler version of SH. If the comments in this thread hurt your feelings you would have never survived the bashing it would have produced three months ago.
You are in a strongly opinionated, not to mention experienced world here. You must learn to chip thru the unpleasantness and learn the lesson being imparted.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 350 Kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sierra bullets are accurate but they suck for hunting.Matchking or gamekings are accurate but they either blow up or pencil through.Barnes X bullets have no equal when it comes to a hunting bullet </div></div>
Hmmm seems that I recall that Nosler and Hornady make a few bullets as well,along with several other companies, that have put more than a couple of pounds of venison in the freezer.
<span style="font-style: italic">No equal is a pretty bold claim</span>. Pick one that's designed for the job, and place the bullet in the vitals. My $0.02
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 350 Kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sierra bullets are accurate but they suck for hunting.Matchking or gamekings are accurate but they either blow up or pencil through.Barnes X bullets have no equal when it comes to a hunting bullet </div></div>
Hmmm seems that I recall that Nosler and Hornady make a few bullets as well,along with several other companies, that have put more than a couple of pounds of venison in the freezer.
<span style="font-style: italic">No equal is a pretty bold claim</span>. Pick one that's designed for the job, and place the bullet in the vitals. My $0.02
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qld4390</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm. </div></div>
Not busting your balls, just pointing out a huge hole in your logic, or lack there of. Can I use a baseball bat to play cricket? Sure I can, but it's not the right tool for the job. Difference is, if you use a baseball bat to play cricket, you'll just look foolish. You use the wrong tool to try to take an animal, you could wound it, and not kill it. The whole idea is to be a <span style="font-weight: bold">RESPONSIBLE </span>hunter, not some jackass who runs around the woods shooting deer in the ass and letting them get away, only to get infected and die a slow painful death.
Your claim that you don't have time to develop another load, is a bullshit excuse. You develop a target load for 1/2 MOA or better. You develop a hunting load for 1 MOA. One trip to the range and you can have an MOA load with a legitimate hunting bullet. Do the job right, use the right tools, be a responsible hunter, and shoot for a humane kill. </div></div>
I am a responsible hunter, that's why I asked the Fucking question. I just wanted to know if the bullets were to soft or to hard. just asking. Good lord, this is pathetic.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qld4390</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Son of a Bitch!!!!!! If I had known I was going to get dogged out, flamed, beaten up, and humiliated, I would not of ask the Fucking question.
I have a 7 mm mag that I shoot 168 bergers, but I also have a Savage 10 fcp, HS, 5r, in 308, that drives nails with the 175 matchkings. I don't want to have to develope another load for this rifle, I don't have the time, and my 7 mag should hold up just fine. I'm taking both rifles out west next month on a deer an elk hunt, the 308 is just a backup rifle, I'm not going to drive 2000 miles one way and not take a backup, understand.
It was just a quick question that I wanted a couple of opinions. I was not trying to start a shit storm. </div></div>
Not busting your balls, just pointing out a huge hole in your logic, or lack there of. Can I use a baseball bat to play cricket? Sure I can, but it's not the right tool for the job. Difference is, if you use a baseball bat to play cricket, you'll just look foolish. You use the wrong tool to try to take an animal, you could wound it, and not kill it. The whole idea is to be a <span style="font-weight: bold">RESPONSIBLE </span>hunter, not some jackass who runs around the woods shooting deer in the ass and letting them get away, only to get infected and die a slow painful death.
Your claim that you don't have time to develop another load, is a bullshit excuse. You develop a target load for 1/2 MOA or better. You develop a hunting load for 1 MOA. One trip to the range and you can have an MOA load with a legitimate hunting bullet. Do the job right, use the right tools, be a responsible hunter, and shoot for a humane kill. </div></div>
I am a responsible hunter, that's why I asked the Fucking question. I just wanted to know if the bullets were to soft or to hard. just asking. Good lord, this is pathetic.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
UH-1H,
The long and short of the bullets performance on game is that it will generally act like a FMJ when shot into a critter. It can tumble and break apart if velocity is good. It can have jacket seperation during pass through, also causing multiple wound paths. Both these things can happen if bone is impacted on the near side of the critter targeted. I can attest that if you hit the base of the neck, shoulder plate or even a solid rib, the bullet kills fine. If you do not hit bone, be prepared for a bullet that penetrates like a FMJ. An interesting thing about bullet selection is that some people who hunt VERY big critters have no problem taking a SOLID hunting for things that can kill them, and say it kills just fine. If you shoot a critter knowing that you may get penetration but no expansion, and place your shots accordingly, I believe that this bullet is quite up to the task at hand for deer, black bear, and elk sized critters. If I am using a rifle that is a hunting rifle I will use other choices(presently 150gr/180gr sierra or hornady BTSP's,SST's or Interbonds out of 308/30-06). If I am shooting longer distances or shooting management deer then the SMK is not a problem to me. I would not apply this to all weights and calibers of the SMK for deer to Elk sized critters because penetration of the different bullets will vary such as it did in another posters story above. If you still have doubts about what it is capable of, I think Elkhuntingguide and PSG have a "couple pics" of elk, bears, deer, etc shot with the 308 175 SMK. They should still be findable by search here. Hope this answers your/others question.
UH-1H,
The long and short of the bullets performance on game is that it will generally act like a FMJ when shot into a critter. It can tumble and break apart if velocity is good. It can have jacket seperation during pass through, also causing multiple wound paths. Both these things can happen if bone is impacted on the near side of the critter targeted. I can attest that if you hit the base of the neck, shoulder plate or even a solid rib, the bullet kills fine. If you do not hit bone, be prepared for a bullet that penetrates like a FMJ. An interesting thing about bullet selection is that some people who hunt VERY big critters have no problem taking a SOLID hunting for things that can kill them, and say it kills just fine. If you shoot a critter knowing that you may get penetration but no expansion, and place your shots accordingly, I believe that this bullet is quite up to the task at hand for deer, black bear, and elk sized critters. If I am using a rifle that is a hunting rifle I will use other choices(presently 150gr/180gr sierra or hornady BTSP's,SST's or Interbonds out of 308/30-06). If I am shooting longer distances or shooting management deer then the SMK is not a problem to me. I would not apply this to all weights and calibers of the SMK for deer to Elk sized critters because penetration of the different bullets will vary such as it did in another posters story above. If you still have doubts about what it is capable of, I think Elkhuntingguide and PSG have a "couple pics" of elk, bears, deer, etc shot with the 308 175 SMK. They should still be findable by search here. Hope this answers your/others question.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
For all those saying people who use SMK's aren't responsible or ethical hunters is absolute bullshit. I've lost one deer in 11 years. That deer that I lost was shot with a 7x57 SP bullet.
The real question is will you let the deer walk if you can't get the shot you want? Of course I'm not into hunting for the horns, I want the meat. The doe that ate a 77 Smk last year dropped like a sack of shit.
However if it makes yall feel warm and fuzzy I may pick up a box of Southwest 190 gamekings.
For all those saying people who use SMK's aren't responsible or ethical hunters is absolute bullshit. I've lost one deer in 11 years. That deer that I lost was shot with a 7x57 SP bullet.
The real question is will you let the deer walk if you can't get the shot you want? Of course I'm not into hunting for the horns, I want the meat. The doe that ate a 77 Smk last year dropped like a sack of shit.
However if it makes yall feel warm and fuzzy I may pick up a box of Southwest 190 gamekings.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
175 smk is still better than a 195 grain lead ball moving at 1100fps fired from a muzzleloader... Shot placement trumps all.
175 smk is still better than a 195 grain lead ball moving at 1100fps fired from a muzzleloader... Shot placement trumps all.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
<span style="color: #000000"> Huey, just take what you can use and leave the rest. Everyone has a reason wanting to express an opinion like you have a reason for being irritated to the extent your reaction was out of proportion with the event. Easy, hoss. And when I was flabergasted above I was expressing bewilderment at how folks couldn't get why Sierra suggested GameKing on game rather than MatchKing. Remember. George Carlin was</span> my favorite stand up.[/font][/color]
<span style="color: #000000"> Huey, just take what you can use and leave the rest. Everyone has a reason wanting to express an opinion like you have a reason for being irritated to the extent your reaction was out of proportion with the event. Easy, hoss. And when I was flabergasted above I was expressing bewilderment at how folks couldn't get why Sierra suggested GameKing on game rather than MatchKing. Remember. George Carlin was</span> my favorite stand up.[/font][/color]
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
I know they are match bullets, I was just asking if they were to hard or to soft.
I did load up some 168 bergers vlds a few months back and tried them, this rifle hates them, inch and a half groups no matter what, tried different seating depths, so on, if I can't get less then an inch, I will not shoot them. The 175 smk will group just over a 1/4 inch.. maybe I'm to picking, some guys would be fine with 1 1/2 groups. Sorry I got bent yesterday, I was having a bad day. Like I said earlier in the thread, this rifle is just going on this trip as a backup gun, and will probably never be taken out of the case. My 7 mag weatherby should be fine. 10 years ago a friend of mine lost his bolt out of his rifle on the first day hunting in Montana, we were on our way off the mountain in a foot of snow and 17 below zero, the bolt was in the rifle when we started back to the truck. Don't ask me how it fell out, I felt bad for him, but shit happens. This is why I always take a backup on a long trip.
I know they are match bullets, I was just asking if they were to hard or to soft.
I did load up some 168 bergers vlds a few months back and tried them, this rifle hates them, inch and a half groups no matter what, tried different seating depths, so on, if I can't get less then an inch, I will not shoot them. The 175 smk will group just over a 1/4 inch.. maybe I'm to picking, some guys would be fine with 1 1/2 groups. Sorry I got bent yesterday, I was having a bad day. Like I said earlier in the thread, this rifle is just going on this trip as a backup gun, and will probably never be taken out of the case. My 7 mag weatherby should be fine. 10 years ago a friend of mine lost his bolt out of his rifle on the first day hunting in Montana, we were on our way off the mountain in a foot of snow and 17 below zero, the bolt was in the rifle when we started back to the truck. Don't ask me how it fell out, I felt bad for him, but shit happens. This is why I always take a backup on a long trip.
Re: 175 Sierra Match King
I had a CZ 550 in 308 that I took on several trips and just fired factory store bought ammo. Sold it and got the Savage 10, and I have to say it has spoiled me.
I had a CZ 550 in 308 that I took on several trips and just fired factory store bought ammo. Sold it and got the Savage 10, and I have to say it has spoiled me.
