Range Report Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

KYpatriot

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Mar 31, 2009
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wishing i was in KY
I really like the program but found out something I considered unusual about Ballistic FTE. It uses a different convention for wind direction than any other official wind report I have ever used.

As a pilot I use wind reports all the time, and they are always issued issued as a bearing on the compass rose, referenced to the directions the wind is coming FROM. A wind reported as 090/10 would be coming from the east, blowing to the west, looking at a north up compass rose that is right to left. Every official wind report I have ever seen is referenced that way.

In ballisticFTE the wind is wind is input backwards from the normal convention...the 090 is the direction the wind is blowing TO, not FROM.

If you use the spin drift function, as I do, then this will cause a significant error in your wind correction- this happened to me last night.

I was shooting my .308 at an 11in wide target at 905 yards. I had a very small and steady 4 knot wind that was just shy of 1 oclock, call it 20 degrees from the right, mostly headwind but also generating a small right to left crosswind, which with a normal North up orientation I assumed (wrongly) would be input as bearing 020. Well, to Ballistic FTE, 020 is considered the heading of the wind so it was calculating a left correction for a left to right wind ...and adding the left correction for spin drift, (which is about 7in) to that for a total correction of 17inches, or about .5mil in the reticle. Now the correction was in green type, which I now realize implies a left hold, but I intuitively held into the right to left wind .5mil and of course I missed right.

I felt good breaking the shot, and with such light constant wind I couldn't figure out the miss. I corrected immediately using the reticle (easy to spot your own misses with a 308, especially when the TOF is 1.44 sec) and hit the target easily next round holding just a shade right of center.

Moral of the story, read the directions I guess.

That wind was very constant, and interesting because it was light enough and constant enough that for the first time I actually got to see the value of correcting for spin drift. The magnitude of the wind correction was about 10inches, or 0.3mil. The spin drift according to both Ballistic FTE and the equations in Bryan Litz's Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting is approximately 7 inches. Since spin drift is always right for a RH twist barrel the left 7 inches of spin correction offsets most of the 10 inches of right wind hold needed, resulting in a required hold of only 3 inches or 0.1mil of correction. Using <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> hold the next 6 rounds were good hits.

Considering the rifle is probably .8 moa at best at that range, and that without the 7inch spin drift correction the center of the group would be 5 inches off the edge of the target, it is likely I would have gotten several, if not all, misses without correcting for the spin. Since spin drift is a constant, to me it makes sense to go ahead and input the twist rate and bullet length and let the drift correction work in the background. Many days it will be lost in the noise of aim error, mirage, and wind estimation. Someday when you are really seeing the target and the wind is very steady or nearly calm then the correction comes out of the "noise" and will help you score more hits.

As long as you input the freakin wind direction into the program correctly!
 
Re: Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

Join the
confused.gif
club, KYpatriot. It beats me why the author went against convention. I had hoped he might have corrected it by now.

Apart from that, it's a great app.
 
Re: Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

My shooting partner and I were just dicussing this last night. He sent an email to the author. Hopefully it's an oversight and he'll choose to align with convention.

John
 
Re: Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

Yeah, I'm not bashing the program I love it. I just didn't expect that and found it confusing. Th good part is that it caused me to see the infamous, almost mythical spin drift with a 308 no less!
Had I input the wind correctly and scored a hit it is unlikely I would have tried to discern what was going on in the program.
I really like Bryan's book by the way. With ballistic FTE and that book there is really no excuse not to know what your bullet is going to do...as long as you input everything correctly.
 
Re: Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

Ballistic FTE works like JBM. I follow the same model with Ballistica for WP7. From JBM's site: "Angle of the wind direction. A wind blowing downrange has an angle of zero, a wind blowing to the shooter's right has an angle of 90, a headwind, an angle of 180 and a wind blowing to the shooter's left has an angle of 270 degrees."

This is relative to the shooter's position.
 
Re: Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

Yep, I got that now. My point was that all official wind data anywhere in the world records wind direction based on where it is from, not where it is blowing to, which makes that input counter-intuitive for those who use wind reports all the time.
 
Re: Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My shooting partner and I were just dicussing this last night. He sent an email to the author. Hopefully it's an oversight and he'll choose to align with convention.</div></div>
Don't hold your breath. Several people (myself included) have already reported this bug to Jonathan in the last year and a half. Weren't even dignified by an answer.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ballistic FTE works like JBM. I follow the same model with Ballistica for WP7. From JBM's site: "Angle of the wind direction. A wind blowing downrange has an angle of zero, a wind blowing to the shooter's right has an angle of 90, a headwind, an angle of 180 and a wind blowing to the shooter's left has an angle of 270 degrees."</div></div>
You are correct that JBM behaves that way (and has documented this behavior). Regardless, I find it a silly idea to copy (no personal offense meant). Civil Aviation, Air Force, Merchant Marines, Navy, snipers around the world, meteorologists, most anybody else who refers to the wind direction - use "wind blows into the compass" rule. Why Brad (JBM) did this screw-up - I've no idea. But there's no reason to follow that madness.

As for Ballistic FTE - below is the quote from its own Web site Ballistic: The Pro Ballistic Trajectory Computer, stating the opposite to what JBM and you are saying:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ballistic FTE Web site</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wind angles work like this: 0° = headwind, 90° = crosswind (right to left), -90° = crosswind (left to right). You can use any angle, of course, not just these. You can also enter input in O'Clock format; e.g. 3:00 will automatically translate to 90°. Velocity will automatically be adjusted to account for the appropriate headwind calculation. To use O'Clock format in the HUD, set the windage dial format in Settings.</div></div>
I realize that FTE's actual behavior matches JBM rather than what the FAQ claims.

The real reason (I think) for this behavior is - the original FTE used Jonathan's own ballistic engine, which took the wind input like every other sane program did. That is documented in the FAQ. When JBM engine got integrated into FTE, it brought with it that schizophrenic wind angle reversal. Jonathan chose to ignore this incompatibility, which could be addressed by tying the angle switch to the ballistic engine selection in the Settings.

So in the meanwhile, if you want to use FTE, just reverse the wind input. It's stupid but it works (verified).
 
Re: Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

After reading through this, I'm going to reverse the directions in my app, e.g. go from:

--> = 90 and 270 (-90) = <--

to

<-- = 90 and 270 (-90) = -->

To make sure I have this straight a 90 deg wind will = 3 o' clock, right?

 
Re: Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After reading through this, I'm going to reverse the directions in my app, e.g. go from:

--> = 90 and 270 (-90) = <--

to

<-- = 90 and 270 (-90) = -->

To make sure I have this straight a 90 deg wind will = 3 o' clock, right?
</div></div>
Yes, exactly.

The mnemonic rule we used was "<span style="font-style: italic">Wind blows into the compass, current flows out of the compass</span>".

So if you are in the "center" of the compass - the wind is coming <span style="text-decoration: underline">at you</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline">from</span> a given azimuth, like if you're facing North then wind coming directly from your right (3 o'clock) is 90 degrees.

And the current is going <span style="text-decoration: underline">away from you</span>, so if you're facing North, then the current at 90 degrees would be flowing from your left to your right. <span style="font-style: italic">Which is not useful for a ballistic program, unless you're computing for the Naval guns.
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</span>
 
Re: Funny thing happened with Ballistic FTE....

I've sent an email as well, he responded but he was under the impression that the wind function is correct. I replied quite professionally to state the reality that the wind function is indeed backwards and I never heard back.

Other than that, I really like the program.