Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

[SGT TickleFight]

I have been using the RCBS 505 analog scale. I have gotten my AR to shoot 0.6" and my Garand to 1.5" at 100 yards. Loads have about a 30 fps spread. A serious LR benchrest shooter said his loads have a 3 and 5 fps spread in his two guns and if I can't get below a 10 fps spread I should throw my scale out.

I trim my cases (+/- .002" is the best I can do) but I do not weight or sort my brass which is mostly military.

Is this true? Is 30 fps a bad spread for a semi-autos? My groups are not vertical - shots are well distributed. Do I need a better scale to load for my new bolt gun?

If so, what are the best digital scales for under $200?

 

[MALLARD]

Re: Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

you ES is 10 or your SD is 10 ? either way that isn't to bad

your buddy gets 3-5 ? that is tough , i've only gotten and ES/SD like that a few times. I tried to re-create it , it never happened.

shit , throwing out your scale won't solve the problem. The problem could lie with your powder, or consistent COALS , or tension.... or primer...

i have an accluab scale, it is superior to the balance beam scales i have. But like i said , i have rarely gotten 3-5 ES/SD...

what kind of scale does your buddy use ? what chrono is he using?

 

[SGT TickleFight]

Re: Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

I don't know the brand names of his equipment. He is a serious benchrest shooter - his chrono is some expensive unit from a company that no longer exists and I forget what scale he uses. I don't know all the terms yet so will have to educate me but my handloads are +/- 15 fps according to the club check-out Chrony.

This is with berger 70gr vlds and 69gr smks that don't seat very consistently (+/- 5 mils), cci 400 primers. I am also jumping from mag length - not seating close to or on the lands. I would not seat my vlds to the lands anyway because of the seating depth discrepancy which many others have experienced as well.

My results are fine with me - sometimes I get flyers pushing out close to 1 MOA, but he says I can do much better which intrigues me. I shoot from a 24" barrel and my velocities are right in line with available load data so I know that my scale is at least calibrated properly.

 

[SGT TickleFight]

Re: Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

This guy probably spends more time that I would like to preparing brass. He shoots a 6mm wildcat of some sort and 7mm mag in very expensive bench guns.

He also told me that I should buy the larger dies for my rock chucker because "the skinnier ones distort and give inconsistent case dimensions." This guy is truely nuts but you can't argue with his results.

He said if you're not shooting under an inch at 500 yards in his competitions, you should stay at home. An elbow injury keeps him from being able to shoot off hand so he only shoots LR benchrest.

 

[X-fan]

Re: Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SGT Ticklefight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

He also told me that I should buy the larger dies for my rock chucker because "the skinnier ones distort and give inconsistent case dimensions." This guy is truely nuts but you can't argue with his results.

He said if you're not shooting under an inch at 500 yards in his competitions, you should stay at home........ </div></div>

Horse shit...Nothing more.
Have a look at record groups/scores and you will see what I mean.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

Have him load some ammo for you so he can prove your setup is faulty. Stand over him to make sure everything is in spec.

I agree with the previous poster. Pure BS. If he is truly shooting under 1" at 500 yards, he would win 99% of the matches he shoots in...

You are shooting a gas gun which will cause enough ES on its own. 30 for a gas gun is great. Also think about it this way, 10FPS spread is 20 FPS extreme spread. Using his logic, you are at 15 fps spread. Chronographs can make a huge difference too. Some are way more accurate than others. Shoot over his crono to rule out any problems with yours.

Bottom line, I think the guy is full of it

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

<span style="font-style: italic">"A serious LR benchrest shooter said his loads have a 3 and 5 fps spread in his two guns and if I can't get below a 10 fps spread I should throw my scale out."</span>

You need a better source of info; few - if any - chronographs can accurately clock ES to low single digits. So, call that guy a serious B.S. shooter and I'll agree. And anyone claiming to get more than very rare 3 three shot 1" groups at 500 yards will lie to you about other stuff as well.

The way to get low ES is through careful load development, not precisely weighted charges. We can't get low ES with a poorly chosen charge no matter how precisely we may duplicate the weights; there is MUCH more to obtaining low ES than simply weighing powder to the last kernel and any casual BR shooter/reloader knows it. And the ammo neither knows nor cares if the powder was weighed on a beam or digital scale.

Most 'serious BR shooters' neck size their competition cases. The diameter of FL sizer dies won't have much effect on the ammo if the sizer is adjusted for correct shoulder placment and there is no way to walk into a store and get 'large' or 'skinny' dies by choice anyway.

The die maker's tolerances are SAAMI industry standards, and the tolerance range isn't very large to start with, so the 'skinny sizer distortion' comment is without foundation. Even custom FL dies aren't likely to do much better than what you have now, if they made any difference at all.

 

[X-fan]

Re: Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

Guys like the "serious LR bench rester" really piss me off.
There is no relationship between his bench gun and your AR...Other than his ability to create a elevated sense of self worth at your expense.

A reliable AR that can print 1/2" on demand is nothing but a jewel.

To answer your question about the scale until you get to a $300.00 Santorious I would stick with your 505.
A better scale can help, but it is part of an upgraded and well thought out rifle and reloading system. What you have to ask yourself is what are you hoping to accomplish? Then formulate a plan to go after those goals...Be realistic or be prepared to waste a lot of time and money chasing goals that may not happen.

If it were me I would work on dialing consistency and repeatability rather than more supposed accuracy...Realistically how much more accuracy can you possibly use with a rifle (never mind an AR)?

Good luck!

 

[BCP]

Re: Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

I wouldn't worry about it.

Until you start shooting benchrest competitively listening to those fags is almost always a waste of your time.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Digital Powder Scale - Muzzle Velocity

Serious BR shooters are some of the last people to get reloading advice for a AR from, some of there techniques are spot on, and the rest simply won't cut it in a mag fed weapon. I use a very expensive scale to reload with, but it's not a electronic scale, it's a balance beam, and in order to maintain single digit ES/SD the scale is only part of the process, annealing and neck turning are also required, get your Scale up to eye level, or use a USB camera and your computer to see the needle.