Gunsmithing Restoration Questions??

[tomcatfan]

So I started this thread asking about whether or not it would be worth it to restore an old fire arm. I get the point as I have read from different sources that restoring an old firearm greatly depreciates its value. With that being said, I am curious why that is.

When I look at restorations(when done properly) they almost always increase the value of the item being restored. Really old run down cars, when restored properly can be worth multiple times more than the original price of the car. People restore and sell houses for huge profits. There are shows like American Restoration where people take in various dilapidated items and restore them for an increase in value. So my question is, why does restoring a firearm decrease its value?

The way I look at it, if a firearm has its finish removed and bare metal exposed, it is prone to corrosion. If a firearm has damage which could make it dangerous to use, shouldn't you fix it? Wouldn't proper restoration return the firearm back to its original like condition and help preserve the firearm? In doing that wouldn't that be worth something? I get that some of this stuff is a market driven thing, but I just don't get why the market acts the way it does.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

No. Just shoot and clean it. Good honest wear reduces the collector value less quickly than a refinish job. JMHO

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

I agree that refinishing will never bring you a return on investment, but honest wear won't hurt. I throw up in my mouth every time I see a pre 64 cerakoted, a classic colt is no different.

 

[tomcatfan]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

I would never cerakote an old firearm. I am looking to get it hot blued the same way it came from the factory. I am also looking to take a 1970's era remington 700 that my grandfather gave me and have it reblued as well. I'm doing that just due to the fact it has rust on it and I want the thing to last for ever (or as long as I do). I have stopped the rusting process as best as I can but I would like to get it refinished so that I won't have to worry about it in the future. This leads me to the question I have about restoration.

 

[Dr. Vette]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

Taking a worn out car and restoring it will increase its value - though it is easy to get "upside down" on the cost vs the new value. I suspect the same is true of guns.

In addition, untouched original cars in very good to excellent condition are almost always worth more than an identical restored car. In the auto hobby we have a saying - "It's only original once" - and that holds true of many other valuables as well. Untouched excellent condition firearms are also highly valued.

Having said that a 1970s era Rem 700 is not particularly rare or valuable - sort of like a mid 70s Corvette.

You won't significantly affect its value in a negative way if you have the rifle properly reblued and/or the stock properly refinished. I'd even think hard about putting on a quality recoil pad like a Pachmayr while you're at it.

Good luck with the rifle!

 

[tomcatfan]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

You bring up a good point about only being original once. The same is true for being upside down in restoring things. I only have the restoration knowledge on what I see and read. They wouldn't put it on tv if they were upside down in an investment. So that perspective is very flawed.

 

[Willys46]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

Value? What is the value of something you never plan on selling? It sounds like that firearm was given to you and it will be handed down and is not a collector piece, its more of a family heirloom. If your kids or grand kids sell it when your gone, then a reduced value is what the deserve!

If it was new in box and never fired, I would say not to fire it, but make it useful the way your grandfather expected it to be used! That's what he intended.

 

[tomcatfan]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

I was referencing the remington as an example of an older firearm that I am going to have reblued. What I'm asking about is has no sentimental value and being refinished and restored. I agree with you 100% that something passed down has more value than an insurance company will pay you if god forbid something happens. But unfortunately, I've noticed that I do have to put value on family heirlooms for insurance purposes.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

I think the rarity and value of pristine objects of identical origin makes a difference here.

A rare item is usually viewed as a unique specimen, and the value of evidence of age and provenance far outweigh any benefit that restoration might achieve.

In instances where many, many examples exist (I.e. AK-47, Mosin-Nagant 91/30, etc,) rarity is not a factor, and modifications (of any nature, either as restoration or upgrade) become more desirable.

Sentimental value is real. An heirloom is a piece of family history, and that history may take any path the current custodian/steward of that heirloom chooses. I have several heirloom rifles, and for my purposes, it benefits me and my descendants that they be maintained in good working order, I intend that both the descendants and the firearms be shooters.

Other stewards will have different motivations. It's their business what that might be.

Insurance values should be replacement cost at current blue book value. In cases of antiquity, it could pay to enlist an accredited appraiser. Someday, that value is going to have a purpose, one way or another.

Greg

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

I will present this side, being on the other side of the counter.
Just because it is old, doesn't make it worth a pile of money to begin with.
Some old Stevens .22 that was Grandpa's first gun may be worth a lot snetimentally, don't get me wrong, recognize this too well judging by the some of the time I have invested in my own projects that were ridiculous, and I would never have paid for what I did.
Restoration is one thing as well, refinishing is another. Taking something original and refinishing it, yes does essentially take the value down, espeically if it isn't done right. I have seen some otherwise nice pieces ruined because scratches were not removed, lettering and numbering were run or ruined, checkering sanded over... the list goes on.
An original classic car that was otherwise 'good' but got shiny new paint will not bring what it would have to a collector.
I took my FIL's Savage 99F,that had the buttstock chopped for all those short little Vermonters, and was completely missing the forearm. I made a new buttstock, fabricated a matching forearm, polish and blue to as original a finish as possible, re color cased the lever, jeweled up the bolt and made a gorgeous job out of it. It is no longer collectible, although it is restocked, custom etc. Doesn't mean the work I did to it isn't worth the money I could have charged, but to a collector it is nothing short of butchery.
Refinish and restoring are two different things and the decision should be made on Is the gun worth it? Despite sentimentality? Is the gun going to gain value or lose value?
I have some old pieces that are awesome, Swedes and a P-17 etc that are fully functional and have great bores. On the outside they are rough, but again functional and two are sentimental. Will I touch them? No. would they lose value? Yes. Would someone else? Hard to say.
Greg hit the nail squarely with availability being a determining factor, with the comparison of Mosins and AKs. One day the opposite will be true, but for now it is.
I have a 788 in .30-30 that I still have the scope hole plugs in, original sight, excellent condition but it is patinaed and has age and handling marks and I could make it flawless again, but the collectibility and originality would be ruined. They are relatively rare, and especially rare in the condition mine is in.
Long winded but I hope this helps.

 

[tomcatfan]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

^^ All of the posts have made sense and I have heard what everyone has said. Thank you for your inputs.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

Here is a good example. I bought this 1902 parker vh 12 #2 frame from the store most famous for squeezing every last cent out of a gun. It is obviously a restore, although done many years ago and by someone who was clearly a master.....but it did bad things to the value on the market.....but I feel like I roped the moon by owning it. I ended up paying about what one would pay for a similar cz import shotgun and the same case.

Sometimes, the value is much higher to the owner, than the market.....let your heart guide you.

 

[tomcatfan]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

That is a beautiful shotgun. Im not sure what the original looked like, but that is nice.

 

[cattle buyer]

Re: Restoration Opinions??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hero's machine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a good example. I bought this 1902 parker vh 12 #2 frame from the store most famous for squeezing every last cent out of a gun. It is obviously a restore, although done many years ago and by someone who was clearly a master.....but it did bad things to the value on the market.....but I feel like I roped the moon by owning it. I ended up paying about what one would pay for a similar cz import shotgun and the same case.

Sometimes, the value is much higher to the owner, than the market.....let your heart guide you.</div></div>
Whomever did that work was a MASTER , I would never blink an eye vis owning and shooting that baby doll. Im almost willing to bet that is a Turnbull or whoever taught him!!