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Precision training class expectations

Andy T

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 10, 2007
420
44
Northeast
I just completed Sig Sauer's Academy two day class titled "Advanced Precision Marksman".
At the end I feel a little disappointed. The class consisted of a short lecture session on TD1 where the instructor covered the basics of ballistics, trajectory, angle shooting, and wind.
After lunch, we met at 100 yd range where we confirmed zero and then went back to three hundred yards. During both our 100 and 300 yards, I didn't see the instructor provide much feedback, to individual students, unless they had specific questions. I had issues with my rifle, and he shot it to confirm.
When we got to 300 yards, the instructor helped us calculate come ups using an iphone app, and then we shot paper and steel.
On TD2, we met at 100 yd range to confirm zero, got to put a round through a .50 cal rifle, and headed back to 500 yards. Unfortunately, the range layout prevented us from shooting at 500 without extended target holder, so we moved to 800 yards.
Once again, we got the come ups calculated, split into pairs with one student firing, and the other helping to observe hits on steel.
After lunch, we met back at 500, and this time, the target stands were the right height. Unfortunately, we were shooting paper. Most students, including myself lacked a proper spotting scope to spot paper hits at 500. So it was mostly shooting and praying, until the instructor returned with a decent spotting scope and helped us get on targets.
After 500 yards, we shifted targets to 1000 yard steel. Once again, we just dialed come ups, while the instructor offered occasional advice, after he put a few rounds through a .338 LM.
That was it.
Now, I am not sure what my expectations are for a "precision rifle class", but I was hoping for some drills, and more coaching on the instructor's part. The way this class ran, it was nothing more than a day on the range. The only difference was access to 500, 800, and 1000 yards. Are other "precision rifle classes" the same? Do they have more drills and instruction?
 
Re: Precision training class expectations

Man, that sounds like that wasn't a great class for you. The classes I've attended have included a lot of one on one direct honest feedback on all of the things I was doing wrong behind the gun. I've seen instructors use paper out to 600 yds to detect whether you have the fundamentals down and then they let you "graduate" to the steel at 700, 800, 900, and 1000.
 
Re: Precision training class expectations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Andy T</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just completed Sig Sauer's Academy two day class titled "Advanced Precision Marksman".
At the end I feel a little disappointed. The class consisted of a short lecture session on TD1 where the instructor covered the basics of ballistics, trajectory, angle shooting, and wind.
After lunch, we met at 100 yd range where we confirmed zero and then went back to three hundred yards. During both our 100 and 300 yards, I didn't see the instructor provide much feedback, to individual students, unless they had specific questions. I had issues with my rifle, and he shot it to confirm.
When we got to 300 yards, the instructor helped us calculate come ups using an iphone app, and then we shot paper and steel.
On TD2, we met at 100 yd range to confirm zero, got to put a round through a .50 cal rifle, and headed back to 500 yards. Unfortunately, the range layout prevented us from shooting at 500 without extended target holder, so we moved to 800 yards.
Once again, we got the come ups calculated, split into pairs with one student firing, and the other helping to observe hits on steel.
After lunch, we met back at 500, and this time, the target stands were the right height. Unfortunately, we were shooting paper. Most students, including myself lacked a proper spotting scope to spot paper hits at 500. So it was mostly shooting and praying, until the instructor returned with a decent spotting scope and helped us get on targets.
After 500 yards, we shifted targets to 1000 yard steel. Once again, we just dialed come ups, while the instructor offered occasional advice, after he put a few rounds through a .338 LM.
That was it.
Now, I am not sure what my expectations are for a "precision rifle class", but I was hoping for some drills, and more coaching on the instructor's part. The way this class ran, it was nothing more than a day on the range. The only difference was access to 500, 800, and 1000 yards. Are other "precision rifle classes" the same? Do they have more drills and instruction?
</div></div>

Well I hope my experiance is not gonna be like that. I may be taking sigs police sniper course. Im not liking the reviews so far.
 
Re: Precision training class expectations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can assure you the ones we hold are nothing like that.

Precision MultiGun LLC </div></div>

The first precision rifle class I took was with PMG, taught by Ryan and Tom. The level of instruction and the help from other students who attended is why I am into this sport so deep. You will come away from their class at a much higher level of capability and will reduce frustration in not having to unlearn bad habits.

I recently attend the K&M class taught by Shannon and Bryan at there range and highly recommend their training program. I will attend advanced traing classes from both of these companys in the furture.

As a bonus these guys put on the best matches you can attend!
 
Re: Precision training class expectations

That does not sound typical at all to me.

Choose courses based on the quality of instruction as interpreted through reviews by people who have trained in more than one place and you will be fine.

There's something to be said for the owner/operator smaller training companies here. Without a well known name in the firearms world to hide behind and market with, the little guy has to do it cleaner and better every time, just to keep up. There are a lot of good trainers here on the hide like this, with fantastic reputations built over years and years. Ask publicly about any one of them and people will tell you all you want to know.

Nobody's going to care about how satisfied you are with the course like an owner will. Skin in the game. And that right there is the crux of it.

If you're not being asked a couple times during the course if you are satisfied so far and getting what you need, and are not given a survey or otherwise approached afterward to get your feedback, I argue that's telling.

--Fargo007
 
Re: Precision training class expectations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That does not sound typical at all to me.
Nobody's going to care about how satisfied you are with the course like an owner will. Skin in the game. And that right there is the crux of it.
--Fargo007 </div></div>

I completely agree. I have taken classes from SouthNarc and Tom Givens, and both were extremely professional, presented a lot of valuable information, and ensured they were teaching instead of devolving into ballistic masturbation.
 
Re: Precision training class expectations

I've only taken formal instruction once, and that was with Magpul Dynamics. My experience was far different from what you describe. If the course was as you described, I would've been disappointed.