How far past max powder charge will you go?

7

7.62gunr

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 11, 2011
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Oregon
#1
How far past max powder charge will you go in your BOLT gun?


With my .308 bolt I kept my 168 loads to warm pressures and still got flat primers.

Recently I have started developing a 208 Amax load for my Savage 110.
I went all the way to 80 grains of H1000 before seeing and real pressure signs. At 79.5 grains I saw nothing other than a "flattish" primer but at 80 grains I got a "wave" in the primer.


It should be known that the bullet is seated .010 of the lands which does account for some of the higher powder charge tolerance(less compression in the case)

208 Amax .010 off lands.
168 Amax at spec COL
2012-05-03192916.jpg

wave in primer
2012-05-03162828.jpg

2012-05-03162855.jpg

2012-05-03163010.jpg

2012-05-03173244.jpg

3 bullets and only off by .1
2012-05-03173545.jpg
 
#3
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: donovan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">first pic has a ejector mark also you are at pressure .......
Between the the 300 and the win the half moon </div></div>

Rog, this was at 80 grains. I have no interest in going past this point.
Anyone know how temperature sensitive H1000 is?
 
#4
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

What is the motivation to push that hard? Just curious, I have always been pretty conservative with pressure, been there when a bolt let go. That flinch never dies... LOL

Dave
 
#7
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

Reaching the 'edge' of MAX Pressure ( edge of return ) is you can barely lift your Bolt Handle to extract & pierced Primmer or Blown .
You don't want to get to the MAX pressure & the the edge of No Return. & there's is very little room in-between . So same bet is the accuracy node that will get you there with comfortable pressure .
.
 
#8
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reaching the 'edge' of MAX Pressure ( edge of return ) is you can barely lift your Bolt Handle to extract & pierced Primmer or Blown .
You don't want to get to the MAX pressure & the the edge of No Return. & there's is very little room in-between . So same bet is the accuracy node that will get you there with comfortable pressure .
. </div></div>
So how would you feel being over max book by a grain before you show significant pressure?
I have no interest in running at max pressure because I can. I just want to know what my safe max is so I can find a node that shoots nice and has good velocity.
 
#9
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

You got any idea where your Vel. is hovering @ with the Load you are shooting ? & how were the groups on-paper @-Range with the load you were shooting ?

<span style="text-decoration: underline">& I really don't use published load data much for hand loading .</span>
You are going to guess with trial & error then the only way to find a ( safe max load ) . by taking the handload up by a couple 1/10's @ a time till you just get the the edge of where the bolt 'just starts' to get sticky Lift, & Primmer starting to flatten . Then back it off little by little till you get the groups tight @ the range you want to shoot . & do this with consideration to your working Alt. & Temp .
You don't want to running the ragged edge & then shoot it up @ terrain of high Alt. & High Temp. then you will bust over your pressure comfort zone you set-up.

But if you Not interested in getting max-performance Vel. . Then just stop anywhere that the groups look good before the Bolt gets sticky & Primmer pierce or pressure blow-by around the primmer pocket .

There is lots of good Load info in the reloading forum in this Website .
.
 
#10
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

I'm with Dave. Why push it? I "play" with loads posted by other guys, here, and use their data, to "push" over book, but I back off the loads, when I see any signs of over pressure. I like my life . What's the "reward", for putting it at risk. I load a great shell for my 5R, that runs at 2300 fps. You can shoot flies, with it, at 100. And it doesn't "push" the brass, the gun, or me. Just the thoughts of an "older guy". We don't heal like we used to.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David Taylor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the motivation to push that hard? Just curious, I have always been pretty conservative with pressure, been there when a bolt let go. That flinch never dies... LOL

Dave </div></div>
 
#11
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

OK. I missed this post. Sorry. I don't mind being "over the book" cause I have several books, and they all show different max loads. Like all the other guys, here, say. Each gun is a little different. My "hot load", for my 308 is 44.7 Varget, behind a 168. My Hornady book says 44 gr. is the max.My Hogdon book, puts Max at 46 gr. I wouldn't have gone past the Hornady numbers, or gotten another book, and found another great node, unless I'd asked the guys here, and read the posts about the loads. We'll all agree on one thing. Be careful, and you'll live longer.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62gunr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reaching the 'edge' of MAX Pressure ( edge of return ) is you can barely lift your Bolt Handle to extract & pierced Primmer or Blown .
You don't want to get to the MAX pressure & the the edge of No Return. & there's is very little room in-between . So same bet is the accuracy node that will get you there with comfortable pressure .
. </div></div>
So how would you feel being over max book by a grain before you show significant pressure?
I have no interest in running at max pressure because I can. I just want to know what my safe max is so I can find a node that shoots nice and has good velocity. </div></div>
 
#13
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

I dont use published data period

I always load to identify max for given combo in my rifle, i generally do load work in heat of TX summer triple digits. Thus negating any temp related surprises, not difficult.
Why give up increased performance/accuracy
I find max ceiling and work backwards until i get load that shoots tight, it may well be over book max but under max for given combo in my rifle.
Published data is lawyer proofed for general public, a savvy reloader can safely surpass factory loads with ease.
Reloading allows those that are savvy enuff to realize accuracy and velocity gains specific to their rifle, mass produced ammo can never do that. Done correctly such loads are as safe as OTC ammo in rifle they were developed for.
Primers are NOT a good indication of over pressure, you are however getting light ejector wipe so your at top end.
Work backwards until you get accuracy you want n call it good.
 
#14
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

>,,,"Published data is lawyer proofed for general public ".
-
Yes . published data is basically a 'liability' starting point .
I got books back in 50's-60's that have published Load Data that is Way-fast & Hotter Vel. than published data now in today's books . But they have to as this is turned into a Litigious society since the 50's & 60's .
.
 
#16
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

I use the mid point in the manuals as a starting point and work up until I see pressure signs. In my 700 in 308 I am loading 46.3gr of RL15 and a 178 A-Max. I also have the bullet pushed out to 2.940" which is about ~0.040 off the lands. Thats where it likes it. Thats about 2.5gr over what the books say. Im still not at pressure either. iirc I went up to 47gr but the accuracy dropped off. Ive shot the load in 115 degree heat in the Mojave Desert and 35 degree cold in Texas and it performed the same. I usually only look at the books as a base starting point and then do my own interpretations.
 
#17
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

Looks like your Savage has a node about the same place my 300wm sendero has one. I'm currently working on a load that's 78.6 gr. H-1000 .040" off the lands and I'm getting velocities right in there with your 78.5 loads.
 
#19
Re: How far past max powder charge will you go?

Well, great big maybe on that one. I usually start my .30 and .338 loads out around -0.050" off the lands. I guess an exception (always exceptions) to that is supposedly Berger VLDs like to be close. I have some 210 VLDs I'm going to be trying out tomorrow, first time with VLDs for me. I loaded those at -0.010" off the lands. We'll see how that goes, I guess they're more sensitive to jump than the Horn 208s I've been using.
I've just started working up loads for these heavys with my 300WM, I've been shooting 155 Sierra Palma bullets in it and it's a real tack driver with those, cuts a ragged hole at 100 yds.
 
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