Rifle Scopes FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

[BgBmBoo]

I tried searching for this topic and came up empty....though I am sure it has been talked about.

I have been getting interested in 3 gun matches and have a nice JP needing some glass. I have been looking at the Bushnell 1-6.5 scopes. But need some input on what is the better option for 3 gun. FFP or SFP?

Thanks,Stan

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

what price range are you looking at? I'd give up magnification on the high end for true 1x.

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

Well...I believe the Bushnell 1-6.5 is around $1100. And from what I have read they are a true 1X. I like the looks of the BTR2 reticle.

So...back to the original question.

 

[mscott]

Re: FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

I see no need for a FFP on a low powered 3 gun scope. If I miss a target I'm not going to waste time dialing, so it wouldn't matter if the reticle was correct for measuring. I simply hold where needed to make a connection with the target and move to the next one. Chaces are that with a low powered variable you'll always be on max power anyway for long shots.
If the SS 1-6 was sfp I would have ordered one by now, but I'm still deciding on that one. As already mentioned, true 1x on the bottom is very important to me.

 

[Decoy]

Re: FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

The real questions are which class are you going to be shooting in and what distance will you be completing at?

If you are shooting open class then you will probably be running a red dot sight on the side of the gun for 1-75 yards so you can go with a higher power on the low end and maybe a higher power on the high end. For my open gun I run a C-More STS on a Burkett side mount with a 1.5 x 6 Burris XTR using a LaRue Tactical One piece mount on the top. I am good out to 600 with this set-up.

Scope tactical set-up is a little different. For the fast short and long back-up sight system I use the 45 degree iron sight system by Barry Dueck. Fast and to the point they are easy to get used to and set up. There are quite a few new 1 x 6 scopes out there but for most average and a lot of high end shooters a 1 x 4 should work well. If you have young eyes then a 1 x 4 should rock but if you are getting older you might want to pony up and get a 1 x 6 or 1 x 8. The 1x4 Burris XTR is hard to beat and the Vortex is also getting good reviews. I used a Leupold 1x3 CQB for a few years and unless it is past 250 yards I still use that gun.

So consider your age, price range, distance to shoot and which matches you are planning to shoot to help decide.

Once the new Leupold 1x6 comes outi will be looking hard at, current I have a 1x5 weaver on and the jury is still out on it.

 

[toygunner]

Re: FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

SFP. There is no need for the other. I had a S&B short dot FFP. I hated it because on 1x it was hard to pick up a quick aiming point, unless the dot was on. If the dot was on and you powered up to 4x, the dot covered 1/2mil. and it had to be shut off mid-run.

Next I had a 1.5-6 USO MOA. It was a FFP, but it had the large cirle that worked on low power for a quick aiming point. On the 6x for the longer range it was a little so since you had to count lines for the correct dope.



The current scope I use is the Swarvoski 1-6 BRT i. It is a SFP. It is the best scope I have used to date. The BRT is dead on with my 77gr. load. The dot can be left on and it does not interfere with the reticle.

I shoot TAC Optics class where only one optic is allowed. Just my two cents.

 

[00bullitt]

Re: FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

Whether for 3 gun or any type of use, I'm rather opposed to a FFP scope with a high end mganification of 6x or less.

Typically you utilize a 200 yard zero on an low power variable scope. A 200 yard zero keeps the bullet no higher than 1.5" above the line of sight. From 25-200 yards that's basically a POA/POI hold. If you are shooting beyond 200 yards, you will most likely be on your max magnification. If for some reason you are using a magnification setting less than max, you are still using the main centerline of the crosshair or aiming point most likely to allow slightly more precision at a distance out to 200. Utilizing a 200 yard zero, nothing is affected.

FFP starts to become a benefit above 6x as the scope crosses in to a different type of use category. For example, the Leupold CQBSS. Very rarely does the need arise to utilize 8x. 5-6x being the more utilized magnification setting for 3 gun. Its good to have your reticle remain in proportion to the target so that it subtends properly when utilizing holds.

If you plan to dial your dope for targets beyond 200, the SFP will be fine. Some will say that dialing is not fast. I tend to disagree as I have won many of long range 3 gun stages dialing my dope while others were using their hold overs. It all lies in your experience level and capability. I personally prefer a BDC style of reticle for 3 gun, but I have never been slowed down enough for it to matter to dial.

 

[LocoGringo]

Re: FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

It's highly unlikely you'll be doing any actual range estimation during the competition, so I believe it's a non-factor. FFP or SFP are relevant if you're doing range estimation because if it's a SFP scope, you need to know which magnification power setting to make the range estimation or have a cheat sheet that tells you the dimensions of the reticle at different powers. The FFP reticle changes automatically with the magnification setting, so it's not a concern which magnification setting the scope is in. In 3-gun you're looking for speed and accuracy, but you don't do any range estimation.

 

[nickw]

Re: FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's highly unlikely you'll be doing any actual range estimation during the competition, so I believe it's a non-factor. FFP or SFP are relevant if you're doing range estimation because if it's a SFP scope, you need to know which magnification power setting to make the range estimation or have a cheat sheet that tells you the dimensions of the reticle at different powers. The FFP reticle changes automatically with the magnification setting, so it's not a concern which magnification setting the scope is in. In 3-gun you're looking for speed and accuracy, but you don't do any range estimation. </div></div>

Correct, but don't forget that in addition range estimation the FFP reticle will allow you to use the reticle to hold over at any magnification as it (the reticle) subtends the same at every magnification. Granted, you are usually shooting at max magnification anyway, so the need to hold over on a lower magnification is not common. As 00buillit said above, with a 200 yard zero you are good to go poa/poi 25-200 yards. Even at 300 yards you are only about 7-8" low with a 200 yard zero, so holding over on a 10" flash target is pretty easy. Its not until you get past 300 that a FFP or good BDC reticle is really needed (that is if you don't dial). Most 3gun matches don't shoot much past 300 and those that do, don't have a lot of LR shots at those distances. Pick a reticle that will allow you to easily engage the 0-300 yard targets 1st and then figure out how you want to engage the LR targets.

 

[mberry223]

Re: FFP or SFP for 3 gun scope?

I am new to 3-Gun, but not new to FFP vs SFP.

I can think of two reasons to look at FFP, both are reticle dependent.

1. The scope has a reticle that when dialed down to 1 power becomes a big red dot in the scope, or some type of circle/dot.

2. You have stages that require you to use fairly exact holds, say small targets at 400 yards or more. If you are transitioning from near targets to far targets and don't switch your scope all the way up in the heat of the moment, it could make a difference.

To me it comes down to the reticle and how I intend to use it. Right now I run a NF 1-4 with a mil-dot in the SFP. There are faster reticles out there, but I'm used to a mil-dot and it works for me. I will change to a 1-8 soon and won't let FFP vs SFP impact my decision as much as the reticle and scope design. 3-gun shots usually aren't far enough to matter that much. The ability to shoot your near targets quickly and accurately will probably effect your score more than anything.