Kool sniper pix
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Re: Kool sniper pix
Very cool. I'm not sure that Model 70 is a Van Orden rifle. I seem to recall that the Van Orden Contract rifles used Lyman scopes and possibly Target stocks. Still a cool rifle though.
Very cool. I'm not sure that Model 70 is a Van Orden rifle. I seem to recall that the Van Orden Contract rifles used Lyman scopes and possibly Target stocks. Still a cool rifle though.
Re: Kool sniper pix
Great picture, looks like it came out of one of Peter Senich's books.
Senich has sevearl great books on Sniping all containing great photos.
I have most of his books, well worth reading if you're interested in the history of sniping.
I have his German and British Sniping Books but I think his best is the books on Vietnam Sniping............Maybe because that was my war.
Great picture, looks like it came out of one of Peter Senich's books.
Senich has sevearl great books on Sniping all containing great photos.
I have most of his books, well worth reading if you're interested in the history of sniping.
I have his German and British Sniping Books but I think his best is the books on Vietnam Sniping............Maybe because that was my war.
Re: Kool sniper pix
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RidgeAve. Rifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very cool. I'm not sure that Model 70 is a Van Orden rifle. I seem to recall that the Van Orden Contract rifles used Lyman scopes and possibly Target stocks. Still a cool rifle though. </div></div>
They're both M14s.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RidgeAve. Rifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very cool. I'm not sure that Model 70 is a Van Orden rifle. I seem to recall that the Van Orden Contract rifles used Lyman scopes and possibly Target stocks. Still a cool rifle though. </div></div>
They're both M14s.
Re: Kool sniper pix
awesome pics, I had no idea that there were suppressed M14 sniper rifles in Vietnam.
awesome pics, I had no idea that there were suppressed M14 sniper rifles in Vietnam.
Re: Kool sniper pix
Those look like the old Sionics silencers... those were the state of the art at the time... but I never knew they did them for the 7.62... I thought they were just for the M16/CAR-15/XM177E2.
Very neat photos! Cheers,
Sirhr
Those look like the old Sionics silencers... those were the state of the art at the time... but I never knew they did them for the 7.62... I thought they were just for the M16/CAR-15/XM177E2.
Very neat photos! Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: Kool sniper pix
The pants are interesting too. I've seen pics of tiger stripe but not these woodland scheme. I'm interesting is seeing more of these historic pictures.
The pants are interesting too. I've seen pics of tiger stripe but not these woodland scheme. I'm interesting is seeing more of these historic pictures.
Re: Kool sniper pix
In about 2003, I did some work down at the Natick Soldier Center in Mass. That's where Army uniforms, camo, field gear, etc. are developed.
So when you pointed out the pants, I googled Natick and woodland to see if they gave a date for development of Woodland pattern.
Below is a link to a pretty interesting paper that came up, showing that they were doing tests as early as 1962... And refining patterns throughout the late '60s and into the '70s.
For anyone in interested in how the patterns/uniforms are developed and in how the Natick Labs looked at camouflage science/psycholgy, this paper is very worth reading!
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA096884
Cheers,
Sirhr
In about 2003, I did some work down at the Natick Soldier Center in Mass. That's where Army uniforms, camo, field gear, etc. are developed.
So when you pointed out the pants, I googled Natick and woodland to see if they gave a date for development of Woodland pattern.
Below is a link to a pretty interesting paper that came up, showing that they were doing tests as early as 1962... And refining patterns throughout the late '60s and into the '70s.
For anyone in interested in how the patterns/uniforms are developed and in how the Natick Labs looked at camouflage science/psycholgy, this paper is very worth reading!
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA096884
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: Kool sniper pix
Those scopes looks state of the art for back then as well. Kinda neat that those weapons dont look too far from what is used today.
Those scopes looks state of the art for back then as well. Kinda neat that those weapons dont look too far from what is used today.
Re: Kool sniper pix
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those scopes looks state of the art for back then as well. Kinda neat that those weapons dont look too far from what is used today.</div></div>
Those are PVS-2's. Early night vision scopes, sometimes called 'Starlight' scopes.
Believe that was a similar setup to the one Chuck Mawhinny (sp?)used Valentines night '69 or '70 in Vietnam when he and his spotter blocked an attack by VC. He killed virtually an entire VC platoon (16 enemy killed, head shots, at night, at close range... and in a matter of a minute or two). That action stopped an attack on an American unit. He probably saved a lot of American lives that night...
Mawhinney's actual issue M40 bolt rifle is on display at the Marine Corps Museum... that alone is worth visiting the museum!
Cheers,
Sirhr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those scopes looks state of the art for back then as well. Kinda neat that those weapons dont look too far from what is used today.</div></div>
Those are PVS-2's. Early night vision scopes, sometimes called 'Starlight' scopes.
Believe that was a similar setup to the one Chuck Mawhinny (sp?)used Valentines night '69 or '70 in Vietnam when he and his spotter blocked an attack by VC. He killed virtually an entire VC platoon (16 enemy killed, head shots, at night, at close range... and in a matter of a minute or two). That action stopped an attack on an American unit. He probably saved a lot of American lives that night...
Mawhinney's actual issue M40 bolt rifle is on display at the Marine Corps Museum... that alone is worth visiting the museum!
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: Kool sniper pix
I have one of the starlight scopes. Unfortunately when I cracked the first round of sighting it in the tube blew. It has been a paper weight for about three years. Anyone know who rebuilds them?
Cool photo southern boys no doubt judging by the hunting club sign!
I have one of the starlight scopes. Unfortunately when I cracked the first round of sighting it in the tube blew. It has been a paper weight for about three years. Anyone know who rebuilds them?
Cool photo southern boys no doubt judging by the hunting club sign!
Re: Kool sniper pix
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The pants are interesting too. I've seen pics of tiger stripe but not these woodland scheme. I'm interesting is seeing more of these historic pictures. </div></div>
The cammo uniforms in the photo are not Woodland pattern. The pattern is called EDRL. It came in a few color patterns with variations of browns and greens. I believe the EDRL uniforms were being issued around 1967.
I was issued the green base pattern EDRL's in the late 70's ( My uniforms had Vietnam era mfg. dates on the tags) in the Marines. I noticed there were a number of EDRL variations of patterns being issued at the time. I even saw one pattern used in the sleeves and another pattern used on the back of the blouse.
It looked like they were using up all of the misc. EDRL pattern fabric. All of these uniforms were made of 100% cotton rip stop and has no reinforced knees or seat.
I remember being able to buy the first Woodland 50/50 NYCO twill in 1981-82.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The pants are interesting too. I've seen pics of tiger stripe but not these woodland scheme. I'm interesting is seeing more of these historic pictures. </div></div>
The cammo uniforms in the photo are not Woodland pattern. The pattern is called EDRL. It came in a few color patterns with variations of browns and greens. I believe the EDRL uniforms were being issued around 1967.
I was issued the green base pattern EDRL's in the late 70's ( My uniforms had Vietnam era mfg. dates on the tags) in the Marines. I noticed there were a number of EDRL variations of patterns being issued at the time. I even saw one pattern used in the sleeves and another pattern used on the back of the blouse.
It looked like they were using up all of the misc. EDRL pattern fabric. All of these uniforms were made of 100% cotton rip stop and has no reinforced knees or seat.
I remember being able to buy the first Woodland 50/50 NYCO twill in 1981-82.
Re: Kool sniper pix
The M14 is heavy enough by itself. I couldn't imagine how freaking heavy it would be with the night scope installed and hauling it around in the jungle for miles.
The M14 is heavy enough by itself. I couldn't imagine how freaking heavy it would be with the night scope installed and hauling it around in the jungle for miles.
Re: Kool sniper pix
those are XM-21's by the way. Production of the M-21 did not happen until the 70's. All of those rifles were hand made down at Benning in the AMTU shops. I know one of the guys on the design team that built them. His name is Gerald "Hook" Boutin. Many here already know of Hook. He served in WWII, Korean and three tours in Viet Nam. One tour as the First Shirt in an Airborne unit and two more as an sniper instructor on the XM-21. He gave me some of the blue prints on the XM-21 and NM M-14 gas system mods he did in the 60's. I was working on Georgia Nat'l Guard NM M-14's at the time and he was interested to see if any of the ideas would help us. Interesting things they tried to see if they could sqeeze more accuracy out of the M-14 design. A fully shoured OP rod guide seemed to work the best but was very hard to keep aligned so the idea got dropped. Anyway Hook would most likely know those guys, his mind is sharp as a tack, even after going through a heart operation just a couple months ago. Here's a link to a PBS interveiw he did some years ago about WWII.
http://www.gpb.org/wwii/gerald-boutin
those are XM-21's by the way. Production of the M-21 did not happen until the 70's. All of those rifles were hand made down at Benning in the AMTU shops. I know one of the guys on the design team that built them. His name is Gerald "Hook" Boutin. Many here already know of Hook. He served in WWII, Korean and three tours in Viet Nam. One tour as the First Shirt in an Airborne unit and two more as an sniper instructor on the XM-21. He gave me some of the blue prints on the XM-21 and NM M-14 gas system mods he did in the 60's. I was working on Georgia Nat'l Guard NM M-14's at the time and he was interested to see if any of the ideas would help us. Interesting things they tried to see if they could sqeeze more accuracy out of the M-14 design. A fully shoured OP rod guide seemed to work the best but was very hard to keep aligned so the idea got dropped. Anyway Hook would most likely know those guys, his mind is sharp as a tack, even after going through a heart operation just a couple months ago. Here's a link to a PBS interveiw he did some years ago about WWII.
http://www.gpb.org/wwii/gerald-boutin
Re: Kool sniper pix
Another link on Hook. He's in the first photo second on the left. Little guy but full of piss and vinegar. The AMU are inducting him into their hall of fame.
http://www.militarymarksmanship.org/48reunion.htm
Another link on Hook. He's in the first photo second on the left. Little guy but full of piss and vinegar. The AMU are inducting him into their hall of fame.
http://www.militarymarksmanship.org/48reunion.htm
Re: Kool sniper pix
http://www.gpb.org/wwii/gerald-boutin
That man just became another one of my heros.
THANK YOU so much for sharing that video, I could listen to him for days.
http://www.gpb.org/wwii/gerald-boutin
That man just became another one of my heros.
THANK YOU so much for sharing that video, I could listen to him for days.
Re: Kool sniper pix
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cattle buyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
very best
Van Orden USMC mod 70 </div></div>
guy on the left was on a discovery channel show about snipers. his chopper crashed in enemy territory, and he held off a platoon of nva crossing a river at night and killed a bunch before being wounded but kept shooting until a chopper arrived and extracted him and a companion. his night vision scope was knocked off zero in the crash but he just held over and got back on target. gave him purple heart or something.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cattle buyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
very best
Van Orden USMC mod 70 </div></div>
guy on the left was on a discovery channel show about snipers. his chopper crashed in enemy territory, and he held off a platoon of nva crossing a river at night and killed a bunch before being wounded but kept shooting until a chopper arrived and extracted him and a companion. his night vision scope was knocked off zero in the crash but he just held over and got back on target. gave him purple heart or something.
What?? I don't understand what your trying to say. But then call me old.
At our little air strip in Kontum the Air Force security guys had a set up like that in 1968 and they wore the euro type camo as in the photo.
..MJ..
Damned fine thread, Gentlemen. There is still so much to be learned from those who have gone before....
Amen we dont even know half of what they do and will never know what some of them did.
L
longguntoter
Guest
Cool. Looks like they still had the "pickle suit" going on then.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those m14's look delicious.</div></div>
You mean like this one:
USAMU Sniper School, Oct 1978
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