Got into LR shooting a couple of years ago with a Remington 700 SPS tactical in .308. I took some Precision Rifle classes and shot a couple F-class matches at the Whittington Center. Now, want to do a custom or semi-custom rifle build to correct all things that I wish I had on my first rifle. Better action, longer barrel, better stock, etc. I mainly want to shoot LR recreationally, some "Steel Safaris" shoots and some F-class matches with this tactical rig. Looking at a Surgeon Scalpel in .308 in the AI 1.5 stock, Jewell trigger upgrade and some sort of muzzle brake. My original desire was to do a M24-style build with the Kreiger 5R barrel, upgrade the action, upgrade the stock, but the Scalpel seems to have most of what I want already in it. Looking for people's opinions on if the Scalpel is worth the $4K price tag? Help me spend my money right.
New LR rifle advice
- Thread starter jackal82
- Start date
Re: New LR rifle advice
If I had $4000 to put into a custom rifle, it would be a GAP with a Surgeon action in an AICS stock, Krieger Barrel, and Jewel trigger. 5R barrel is great, 1:10 is an excellent barrel as well. If you are going to compete, watch your weight-- it adds up fast.
If I had $4000 to put into a custom rifle, it would be a GAP with a Surgeon action in an AICS stock, Krieger Barrel, and Jewel trigger. 5R barrel is great, 1:10 is an excellent barrel as well. If you are going to compete, watch your weight-- it adds up fast.
Re: New LR rifle advice
Jewels are very nice triggers, but i've heard from guys at the range say the triggers didn;t handle dirt as well as old style remingtons.
Scalpels have stellar reputations.
Also, there is an 1993 AI AW for sale in the classifieds for $4250 (great deal). That would be a great option for all uses you specified in the OP.
Jewels are very nice triggers, but i've heard from guys at the range say the triggers didn;t handle dirt as well as old style remingtons.
Scalpels have stellar reputations.
Also, there is an 1993 AI AW for sale in the classifieds for $4250 (great deal). That would be a great option for all uses you specified in the OP.
Re: New LR rifle advice
I have heard the same thing about the jewel triggers, but I have yet to see a problem. I use my gun, but I don't intend to drag it through mud puddles. I have not even needed to clean the trigger yet. It still breaks at a beautiful 12 oz with no take-up. I actually find it harder to shoot my other guns after using this trigger.
I have heard the same thing about the jewel triggers, but I have yet to see a problem. I use my gun, but I don't intend to drag it through mud puddles. I have not even needed to clean the trigger yet. It still breaks at a beautiful 12 oz with no take-up. I actually find it harder to shoot my other guns after using this trigger.
Re: New LR rifle advice
I think that your money might go a little further at GAP. They will both be 1/4 MOA rifles.
I would get a quote form both and go from there. I agree that you need to watch the weight. Money doesn't come easy these days and you still have glass to buy.
I think that your money might go a little further at GAP. They will both be 1/4 MOA rifles.
I would get a quote form both and go from there. I agree that you need to watch the weight. Money doesn't come easy these days and you still have glass to buy.
Re: New LR rifle advice
You can't go wrong with the surgeon. One of my buddies shoots the scalpel, with great results. All said and done I think his was closer to $4700....
Just to mix it up though, I'm sure there's a custom builder near you that would love to put together a sick build for you.
You can't go wrong with the surgeon. One of my buddies shoots the scalpel, with great results. All said and done I think his was closer to $4700....
Just to mix it up though, I'm sure there's a custom builder near you that would love to put together a sick build for you.
Re: New LR rifle advice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackal82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got into LR shooting a couple of years ago with a Remington 700 SPS tactical in .308. I took some Precision Rifle classes and shot a couple F-class matches at the Whittington Center. Now, want to do a custom or semi-custom rifle build to correct all things that I wish I had on my first rifle. Better action, longer barrel, better stock, etc. I mainly want to shoot LR recreationally, some "Steel Safaris" shoots and some F-class matches with this tactical rig. Looking at a Surgeon Scalpel in .308 in the AI 1.5 stock, Jewell trigger upgrade and some sort of muzzle brake. My original desire was to do a M24-style build with the Kreiger 5R barrel, upgrade the action, upgrade the stock, but the Scalpel seems to have most of what I want already in it. Looking for people's opinions on if the Scalpel is worth the $4K price tag? Help me spend my money right. </div></div>
Let the money spending begin!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackal82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got into LR shooting a couple of years ago with a Remington 700 SPS tactical in .308. I took some Precision Rifle classes and shot a couple F-class matches at the Whittington Center. Now, want to do a custom or semi-custom rifle build to correct all things that I wish I had on my first rifle. Better action, longer barrel, better stock, etc. I mainly want to shoot LR recreationally, some "Steel Safaris" shoots and some F-class matches with this tactical rig. Looking at a Surgeon Scalpel in .308 in the AI 1.5 stock, Jewell trigger upgrade and some sort of muzzle brake. My original desire was to do a M24-style build with the Kreiger 5R barrel, upgrade the action, upgrade the stock, but the Scalpel seems to have most of what I want already in it. Looking for people's opinions on if the Scalpel is worth the $4K price tag? Help me spend my money right. </div></div>
Let the money spending begin!!!!
Re: New LR rifle advice
Thanks to everyone for the input. I've got emails into both Surgeon and G.A. Precision asking about the availability of their rifles. No responses yet due to holiday and then the weekend. Anyone out there able to ballpark lag time between ordering and delivery of either of these company's semi-custom rifles like the Surgeon Scalpel or the G.A. Precision Hospitaller?
Thanks to everyone for the input. I've got emails into both Surgeon and G.A. Precision asking about the availability of their rifles. No responses yet due to holiday and then the weekend. Anyone out there able to ballpark lag time between ordering and delivery of either of these company's semi-custom rifles like the Surgeon Scalpel or the G.A. Precision Hospitaller?
Re: New LR rifle advice
Wouldn't want to guess.
It's possible they could have one on hand at any time if a customer happens to "cancel" (stuff happens, plans change, etc.).
As for the cost, if you total up the cost of the parts, and consider the labor/time to build it, and the amount of capital invested in their equipment/tooling, it doesn't seem like these builders make much profit per build.
I've been at both shops during the past year and at those times each had some rifles on hand. The important question to ask them is "what rifles do you have available right now?
For example, they might not have that exact model on hand in .308, but might have something in .260 or 6.5 Creedmore, etc.
Wouldn't want to guess.
It's possible they could have one on hand at any time if a customer happens to "cancel" (stuff happens, plans change, etc.).
As for the cost, if you total up the cost of the parts, and consider the labor/time to build it, and the amount of capital invested in their equipment/tooling, it doesn't seem like these builders make much profit per build.
I've been at both shops during the past year and at those times each had some rifles on hand. The important question to ask them is "what rifles do you have available right now?
For example, they might not have that exact model on hand in .308, but might have something in .260 or 6.5 Creedmore, etc.
Re: New LR rifle advice
I think you've gotten some good advice so far.
My own approach might be a bit different.
First, I would be asking the builder what I needed, rather than telling them. Thay do this sort of thing all the time, and they know better then most others, especially a first time custom rifle customer, what works well together, and what's actually, bare-bones-necessary to get the job done.
I'd tell them what I wanted to do and let them advise me on what will do it.
I also suspect, right off the bat, that they will respond first and foremost with some skepticism about trying to make up a multifunction shooting system. Compromises do many things fairly well, but seldom do any of them exquisitely. To do each thing superlatively, each thing may well need its own dedicated implement.
Finally, I'd not be in antsy hurry to shortchange the lowly factory rifle.
Between you, me, and that lamp post over there, what you're proposing has been proposed before by lots of folks who get a really good taste of the challenge, and end up bitten really deep by the bug.
Not a damned thing wrong with that, but it's woefully unsurprising to see so many of them end up utterly disapponted by the results of their 'gotta get me the best' approach to waging war on the wily paperbeast.
Not trying to discourage you from anything; go and follow your heart, and do what you think is best. Just suggesting that you do it with a mind to not being 'that guy'.
Greg
I think you've gotten some good advice so far.
My own approach might be a bit different.
First, I would be asking the builder what I needed, rather than telling them. Thay do this sort of thing all the time, and they know better then most others, especially a first time custom rifle customer, what works well together, and what's actually, bare-bones-necessary to get the job done.
I'd tell them what I wanted to do and let them advise me on what will do it.
I also suspect, right off the bat, that they will respond first and foremost with some skepticism about trying to make up a multifunction shooting system. Compromises do many things fairly well, but seldom do any of them exquisitely. To do each thing superlatively, each thing may well need its own dedicated implement.
Finally, I'd not be in antsy hurry to shortchange the lowly factory rifle.
Between you, me, and that lamp post over there, what you're proposing has been proposed before by lots of folks who get a really good taste of the challenge, and end up bitten really deep by the bug.
Not a damned thing wrong with that, but it's woefully unsurprising to see so many of them end up utterly disapponted by the results of their 'gotta get me the best' approach to waging war on the wily paperbeast.
Not trying to discourage you from anything; go and follow your heart, and do what you think is best. Just suggesting that you do it with a mind to not being 'that guy'.
Greg
Re: New LR rifle advice
remember that the muzzle brake comes off at nra sanctioned f class events. nra rules states no brakes.
remember that the muzzle brake comes off at nra sanctioned f class events. nra rules states no brakes.
Re: New LR rifle advice
Greg, thanks for the different perspective. My ability to contact them and hold a sustained conversation about what I'm looking for in a rfle is limited. I'm currently deployed to Afghanistan and allow myself one nice firearm purchase per deployment. Email responses with any of these companies has been limited too. I will send out another email to both shops using your input and have them advise me on what set up would work best. Thanks again for the insight.
Greg, thanks for the different perspective. My ability to contact them and hold a sustained conversation about what I'm looking for in a rfle is limited. I'm currently deployed to Afghanistan and allow myself one nice firearm purchase per deployment. Email responses with any of these companies has been limited too. I will send out another email to both shops using your input and have them advise me on what set up would work best. Thanks again for the insight.
Re: New LR rifle advice
Glad to help. I, too, can recall being deployed in another region and time, and spending large parts of my free time planning for my return. The flights of fancy can be breathtaking.
I also recognize that you have practical experience and can discern between the practical and the wishful. There is a huge urge to get it perfect the first time. I support that urge, and my most practical advice is to allow the pros an opportunity to share the benefit of their experience with you as part of that process. I think that if you were to ask them (and you can) they'd probably say they really wish more of their customers would give them that chance.
Offhand, I think you'd likely end up with a more effective implement, and they might even save you some cold cash in the bargain.
Keep in mind that helping a deployed serviceman is at the top of these folks lists of priorities. Please allow them to do their best, their way, in that interest.
In the end, there are many ways to defur these felines, and a lot of the differences add up more to preferences than to practical performance issues. If someone is building something special for me, I want them to be using the components they have the most experience with and faith in. I have never had a bad experience doing that. I only have the one custom rifle (the original Ghost Dancer SH project rifle), but it's been reconfigured several times. I have asked for help, gotten it beyond my wildest dreams, and can only thank my stars I had the benefit of so much good outside experience.
The path to wisdom begins by recognizing how much one doesn't know.
Greg
Glad to help. I, too, can recall being deployed in another region and time, and spending large parts of my free time planning for my return. The flights of fancy can be breathtaking.
I also recognize that you have practical experience and can discern between the practical and the wishful. There is a huge urge to get it perfect the first time. I support that urge, and my most practical advice is to allow the pros an opportunity to share the benefit of their experience with you as part of that process. I think that if you were to ask them (and you can) they'd probably say they really wish more of their customers would give them that chance.
Offhand, I think you'd likely end up with a more effective implement, and they might even save you some cold cash in the bargain.
Keep in mind that helping a deployed serviceman is at the top of these folks lists of priorities. Please allow them to do their best, their way, in that interest.
In the end, there are many ways to defur these felines, and a lot of the differences add up more to preferences than to practical performance issues. If someone is building something special for me, I want them to be using the components they have the most experience with and faith in. I have never had a bad experience doing that. I only have the one custom rifle (the original Ghost Dancer SH project rifle), but it's been reconfigured several times. I have asked for help, gotten it beyond my wildest dreams, and can only thank my stars I had the benefit of so much good outside experience.
The path to wisdom begins by recognizing how much one doesn't know.
Greg
