Guys, Please check out our new reticle that we designed in conjunction with USO. These should be available this fall. Let me know what you think.
Rifle Scopes New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
- Thread starter Big Dog Steel
- Start date
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn! Nice work Ryan! </div></div>
+1
Can you post "Page 2 of 2" or the reticle specs when you have time?
Thanks and congrats again on a job well done!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn! Nice work Ryan! </div></div>
+1
Can you post "Page 2 of 2" or the reticle specs when you have time?
Thanks and congrats again on a job well done!
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
My only constructive criticism on the reticle, and not just this one, but many of them, is for me personally the windage hold offs at the .5 and 1 mil marks below the center.
I really think you should open the area up around the center of the reticle and not start the windage hold-off until the 2 mil mark.
Consider your target, size and distance do you rally need to hold off that far at 300 yards ? Cause that is pretty much what we talking about 300 yards and in... if the target is 6 inches wide at 300 that is 2 MOA in size. if you have to hold off to the point of needing a reference the wind is gotta be hauling something fierce, I mean a 10 MPH wind for a 260 is only .3 at 300 yards, and if you are tracking a mover can't you reference the main reticle scale just above you.
I think some of the problems with christmas tree reticles for me, is that busy feeling because it crowds the center of the reticle. Too much going on...
This is not a direct attack against this one, I see nothing to really dislike for the masses, but getting rid of just the 1+ on that first line would in my opinion open it enough to not crowd the center. I think you can use the references above and below well enough to not need it to be successful
My only constructive criticism on the reticle, and not just this one, but many of them, is for me personally the windage hold offs at the .5 and 1 mil marks below the center.
I really think you should open the area up around the center of the reticle and not start the windage hold-off until the 2 mil mark.
Consider your target, size and distance do you rally need to hold off that far at 300 yards ? Cause that is pretty much what we talking about 300 yards and in... if the target is 6 inches wide at 300 that is 2 MOA in size. if you have to hold off to the point of needing a reference the wind is gotta be hauling something fierce, I mean a 10 MPH wind for a 260 is only .3 at 300 yards, and if you are tracking a mover can't you reference the main reticle scale just above you.
I think some of the problems with christmas tree reticles for me, is that busy feeling because it crowds the center of the reticle. Too much going on...
This is not a direct attack against this one, I see nothing to really dislike for the masses, but getting rid of just the 1+ on that first line would in my opinion open it enough to not crowd the center. I think you can use the references above and below well enough to not need it to be successful
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
Thanks guys!
Frank, I do understand where you are coming from. We actually talked about the center being more open at one point, but felt with the fine reticle and open center we should be able to keep it clean enough to not obstruct the view. The tree itself is pretty open. Our thinking is that your brain can figure out where the shot needs to be faster than counting a bunch of .2 lines. We determined the length of each line in the tree by taking a 308 class rifles ballistics and thinking worst case, what would I need for a 20mph wind? We ended up with 1 Mil vertically and .5 Mils horizontally. The small cross hairs in the tree are .25 Mils wide and tall with a .09 center dot. The center is .28 mil wide in the horizontal and same vertically. This translates to about as close to 1 MOA (1.008" @ 100 yards) as we could get. What this means for us is that a 1 MOA target at any distance will fill the center. This should get you on target quickly. The center dot is .05 mil or about 3/16" @ 100 yards which is a good size for shooting groups as well as distant targets.
The milling portions are all .1 mil. This was a big deal for us, even though the milling portions of any comp is typically only a fraction of the total points. We felt like the finer milling would facilitate a better call and hopefully translate into more hits/points.
Thanks guys!
Frank, I do understand where you are coming from. We actually talked about the center being more open at one point, but felt with the fine reticle and open center we should be able to keep it clean enough to not obstruct the view. The tree itself is pretty open. Our thinking is that your brain can figure out where the shot needs to be faster than counting a bunch of .2 lines. We determined the length of each line in the tree by taking a 308 class rifles ballistics and thinking worst case, what would I need for a 20mph wind? We ended up with 1 Mil vertically and .5 Mils horizontally. The small cross hairs in the tree are .25 Mils wide and tall with a .09 center dot. The center is .28 mil wide in the horizontal and same vertically. This translates to about as close to 1 MOA (1.008" @ 100 yards) as we could get. What this means for us is that a 1 MOA target at any distance will fill the center. This should get you on target quickly. The center dot is .05 mil or about 3/16" @ 100 yards which is a good size for shooting groups as well as distant targets.
The milling portions are all .1 mil. This was a big deal for us, even though the milling portions of any comp is typically only a fraction of the total points. We felt like the finer milling would facilitate a better call and hopefully translate into more hits/points.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
I am talking specifically about the christmas tree underneath...
Where it starts at 1+ and then goes to 2+ etc.
Having the .5 dot @ .5 mils and the .5 dot @ 1 mil is fine, but do we really need to know where 1 is... starting it 2+ because to me the 1+ crowds the center
Think Mayan and not Egyptian in your pyramid. The dots are fine, the number 1 is what bothers me.
The rest of the reticle I get and I have no issue with... Personally I think Comps should do less mil ranging although at K&M with 2 stages being necessary for milling that is fine by me. So the .1 graduations on the edges are well out of the FOV not to worry. I get that and have no issue.
The breakdown of the .5 mils both vertical and horizontal is perfectly fine, however I think I am smart enough to know where 1 mil lines up I don't need big 1+ to crowd the most important part of a reticle. That is what I am saying
I am talking specifically about the christmas tree underneath...
Where it starts at 1+ and then goes to 2+ etc.
Having the .5 dot @ .5 mils and the .5 dot @ 1 mil is fine, but do we really need to know where 1 is... starting it 2+ because to me the 1+ crowds the center
Think Mayan and not Egyptian in your pyramid. The dots are fine, the number 1 is what bothers me.
The rest of the reticle I get and I have no issue with... Personally I think Comps should do less mil ranging although at K&M with 2 stages being necessary for milling that is fine by me. So the .1 graduations on the edges are well out of the FOV not to worry. I get that and have no issue.
The breakdown of the .5 mils both vertical and horizontal is perfectly fine, however I think I am smart enough to know where 1 mil lines up I don't need big 1+ to crowd the most important part of a reticle. That is what I am saying
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
I'm a average shooter with no tactical or competition experience ( except for F Class). But with my very limited experience I know I do not care for a dot in the center of the crosshairs surrounded by open space. Such as the reticle in the IOR (MP 8 version?). Too easy to get lost in and bend in with the the surrounding area sometimes. Solid lines intersecting always seem to pull the eye to the center of the target as least for me. My 2cents.
I'm a average shooter with no tactical or competition experience ( except for F Class). But with my very limited experience I know I do not care for a dot in the center of the crosshairs surrounded by open space. Such as the reticle in the IOR (MP 8 version?). Too easy to get lost in and bend in with the the surrounding area sometimes. Solid lines intersecting always seem to pull the eye to the center of the target as least for me. My 2cents.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can see some use for that one...... </div></div>
For sure that reticle rocks!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can see some use for that one...... </div></div>
For sure that reticle rocks!!
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
REALLY nice reticle. And in a USO, what's not to like? After reading Lowlight's post's I would have to agree with him about starting the x-mas tree windage hold-off's at the 2 mil mark as opposed to immediately after the center of the crosshair.
REALLY nice reticle. And in a USO, what's not to like? After reading Lowlight's post's I would have to agree with him about starting the x-mas tree windage hold-off's at the 2 mil mark as opposed to immediately after the center of the crosshair.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
REALLY like the floating dot aim point,i think that is one of the most overlooked "nice to have" features. very well thought out. also, the .1 mil section is a must for me. bravo,
now about these mayan pyramids and taking the numbers down....is there something we need to know Frank
id say drop the #'s to 2mil holdover level as well,but its a very very minor thing and def not a deal breaker.
ps. big dog steel rocks! i beat on some of your 45%ipsc yesterday and today
also its purdy cool that JB and the uso crew will work direct to put this together.
REALLY like the floating dot aim point,i think that is one of the most overlooked "nice to have" features. very well thought out. also, the .1 mil section is a must for me. bravo,
now about these mayan pyramids and taking the numbers down....is there something we need to know Frank
id say drop the #'s to 2mil holdover level as well,but its a very very minor thing and def not a deal breaker.
ps. big dog steel rocks! i beat on some of your 45%ipsc yesterday and today
also its purdy cool that JB and the uso crew will work direct to put this together.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
Are your .1 lines for milling visible at high power?
Any way to stagger/chevron the lines?
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For fine milling it seems to make it easier and faster to pick off the right line at least to my old eyes.
Are your .1 lines for milling visible at high power?
Any way to stagger/chevron the lines?
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vs
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<span style="color: #CCCCCC">.</span>_
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For fine milling it seems to make it easier and faster to pick off the right line at least to my old eyes.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are your .1 lines for milling visible at high power?
Any way to stagger/chevron the lines?
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For fine milling it seems to make it easier and faster to pick off the right line at least to my old eyes.
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i like left right left right on elev line and high low high low on windage line for .1 mil section. but again not a deal breaker the msr i run is long short and it works very well also, but if i had my rathers it would be staggered
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are your .1 lines for milling visible at high power?
Any way to stagger/chevron the lines?
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<span style="color: #CCCCCC">. .</span>_
<span style="color: #CCCCCC">.</span>_
For fine milling it seems to make it easier and faster to pick off the right line at least to my old eyes.
</div></div>
i like left right left right on elev line and high low high low on windage line for .1 mil section. but again not a deal breaker the msr i run is long short and it works very well also, but if i had my rathers it would be staggered
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are your .1 lines for milling visible at high power?
Any way to stagger/chevron the lines?
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vs
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<span style="color: #CCCCCC">.</span>_
<span style="color: #CCCCCC">. .</span>_
<span style="color: #CCCCCC">. . .</span>_
<span style="color: #CCCCCC">. .</span>_
<span style="color: #CCCCCC">.</span>_
For fine milling it seems to make it easier and faster to pick off the right line at least to my old eyes.
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Yes, the milling portions are visible all the way up to 25x. If you look closely at the milling portion on the vertical leg of the reticle, for example, you will notice that we center the milling portion on the reticle so you can measure something the size of the reticle if you have to. However, we completely left out the vertical stadia line within the milling portion, as well as left a clean space around the milling area to help make it easier to measure with. We also changed the size of the lines at .5 and 1 mil. The width of the 1/10 mil mark is 1/2 MOA, the half mil mark is 1 MOA and the full mil mark on the milling portion is 2 MOA we did this so you could use it as a quick check. Say for example you have close to a 10" target and you get ready to mil it and notice it lines up almost exactly with your 2 MOA mark, without actually milling it you know you are ballpark 500 yards.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are your .1 lines for milling visible at high power?
Any way to stagger/chevron the lines?
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vs
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<span style="color: #CCCCCC">.</span>_
<span style="color: #CCCCCC">. .</span>_
<span style="color: #CCCCCC">. . .</span>_
<span style="color: #CCCCCC">. .</span>_
<span style="color: #CCCCCC">.</span>_
For fine milling it seems to make it easier and faster to pick off the right line at least to my old eyes.
</div></div>
Yes, the milling portions are visible all the way up to 25x. If you look closely at the milling portion on the vertical leg of the reticle, for example, you will notice that we center the milling portion on the reticle so you can measure something the size of the reticle if you have to. However, we completely left out the vertical stadia line within the milling portion, as well as left a clean space around the milling area to help make it easier to measure with. We also changed the size of the lines at .5 and 1 mil. The width of the 1/10 mil mark is 1/2 MOA, the half mil mark is 1 MOA and the full mil mark on the milling portion is 2 MOA we did this so you could use it as a quick check. Say for example you have close to a 10" target and you get ready to mil it and notice it lines up almost exactly with your 2 MOA mark, without actually milling it you know you are ballpark 500 yards.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
It looks like a very well thought out reticle. Only things I would change: remove the wind holds on the first half mil and full mil, only number the tree in even numbers. Neither is a deal breaker for myself, if I get another USO it will be at the top of the list.
It looks like a very well thought out reticle. Only things I would change: remove the wind holds on the first half mil and full mil, only number the tree in even numbers. Neither is a deal breaker for myself, if I get another USO it will be at the top of the list.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
reticles are not easy to please everyone for sure,
because I catch a majority of my impacts below the cross hairs...
my thoughts are get rid of the Tree all together or at least a variation without, or start at 4 mil to 7 mil
Open up the center, no center dot (if a dot was present i wouldn't want it to cover up a half inch dot@100
Possibly a very small quarter mil dot for wind holds on the main horizontal stadia starting from 1.25
change the outer larger stadias to varying sizes common but hard to mil size's ex., (top).35,(bottom).65,(left).75,(Right).85
just some thoughts, great work.
reticles are not easy to please everyone for sure,
because I catch a majority of my impacts below the cross hairs...
my thoughts are get rid of the Tree all together or at least a variation without, or start at 4 mil to 7 mil
Open up the center, no center dot (if a dot was present i wouldn't want it to cover up a half inch dot@100
Possibly a very small quarter mil dot for wind holds on the main horizontal stadia starting from 1.25
change the outer larger stadias to varying sizes common but hard to mil size's ex., (top).35,(bottom).65,(left).75,(Right).85
just some thoughts, great work.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">reticles are not easy to please everyone for sure,
because I catch a majority of my impacts below the cross hairs...
my thoughts are get rid of the Tree all together or at least a variation without, or start at 4 mil to 7 mil
Open up the center, no center dot (if a dot was present i wouldn't want it to cover up a half inch dot@100
Possibly a very small quarter mil dot for wind holds on the main horizontal stadia starting from 1.25
change the outer larger stadias to varying sizes common but hard to mil size's ex., (top).35,(bottom).65,(left).75,(Right).85
just some thoughts, great work.
</div></div>
Rich - The center dot is 3/16" @ 100 yards or a little smaller than a quarter inch @ 100 yards. The opening in the center is 1 MOA.
We are looking at starting the tree at 1 mil, removing the 1 Mil hash marks and leaving the number "1" mil text where it is to open the center slightly more.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">reticles are not easy to please everyone for sure,
because I catch a majority of my impacts below the cross hairs...
my thoughts are get rid of the Tree all together or at least a variation without, or start at 4 mil to 7 mil
Open up the center, no center dot (if a dot was present i wouldn't want it to cover up a half inch dot@100
Possibly a very small quarter mil dot for wind holds on the main horizontal stadia starting from 1.25
change the outer larger stadias to varying sizes common but hard to mil size's ex., (top).35,(bottom).65,(left).75,(Right).85
just some thoughts, great work.
</div></div>
Rich - The center dot is 3/16" @ 100 yards or a little smaller than a quarter inch @ 100 yards. The opening in the center is 1 MOA.
We are looking at starting the tree at 1 mil, removing the 1 Mil hash marks and leaving the number "1" mil text where it is to open the center slightly more.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
Get rid of the 1,
We can count to 2 without having 1 to start... the 1 is unnecessary you can reference the mils on the main horizontal crosshair.
Why does everyone insist on so many numbers... as if we need the numbers going up too... cause I am not smart enough to count the long hash marks I guess...
Numbers up, numbers down, numbers across... more numbers, need numbers, please numbers, I need numbers.
Get rid of the 1,
We can count to 2 without having 1 to start... the 1 is unnecessary you can reference the mils on the main horizontal crosshair.
Why does everyone insist on so many numbers... as if we need the numbers going up too... cause I am not smart enough to count the long hash marks I guess...
Numbers up, numbers down, numbers across... more numbers, need numbers, please numbers, I need numbers.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
Looks way too busy for me, could easily do with half that much information and still be busy. Seems like it would be hard to see your own miss if it's down in the clutter but maybe it's something you get used to but if you don't miss by using all those lines then it's not a factor.
When you get a working version bring it on down to Rayners to get some feedback from actual use at the various distances. Might be better in hand than how it appears in print.
Topstrap
Looks way too busy for me, could easily do with half that much information and still be busy. Seems like it would be hard to see your own miss if it's down in the clutter but maybe it's something you get used to but if you don't miss by using all those lines then it's not a factor.
When you get a working version bring it on down to Rayners to get some feedback from actual use at the various distances. Might be better in hand than how it appears in print.
Topstrap
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
Frank, to quote one of the greatest bands that ever played, "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes, well you might just find, You get what you need."
I like the tree starting on the 1 mil mark. My 300 yard dope for my 260 is 1 Mil and my windage in 10mph is .4, to me that has value. Plus I'm paying part of the tooling costs, sooo....yeah.
Frank, to quote one of the greatest bands that ever played, "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes, well you might just find, You get what you need."
I like the tree starting on the 1 mil mark. My 300 yard dope for my 260 is 1 Mil and my windage in 10mph is .4, to me that has value. Plus I'm paying part of the tooling costs, sooo....yeah.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
It's not always easy to judge how busy a reticle is just by looking at the drawing. A lot of people are surprised when they look through my Gen2 XR because they expect it to look a lot busier.
How heavy and thick the lines and dots are plays a big role in how distracting they are and how busy people perceive the reticle to be. Consider making some of the minor feature thinner so that they aren't as noticeable unless you're specifically trying to use them.
It's not always easy to judge how busy a reticle is just by looking at the drawing. A lot of people are surprised when they look through my Gen2 XR because they expect it to look a lot busier.
How heavy and thick the lines and dots are plays a big role in how distracting they are and how busy people perceive the reticle to be. Consider making some of the minor feature thinner so that they aren't as noticeable unless you're specifically trying to use them.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
I think this reticle looks pretty good. Like the fine dot in the middle of the crosshair and the .1 mil for ranging on the outside.
I think this reticle looks pretty good. Like the fine dot in the middle of the crosshair and the .1 mil for ranging on the outside.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The milling portions are all .1 mil. This was a big deal for us, even though the milling portions of any comp is typically only a fraction of the total points. We felt like the finer milling would facilitate a better call and hopefully translate into more hits/points. </div></div>
Do like.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The milling portions are all .1 mil. This was a big deal for us, even though the milling portions of any comp is typically only a fraction of the total points. We felt like the finer milling would facilitate a better call and hopefully translate into more hits/points. </div></div>
Do like.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
Looks pretty good, but I have to agree with Frank I think. You can keep the tree dots if you must but get rid of the numbers at 1 and 2, the actual digits are the issue not the dots.
Looks pretty good, but I have to agree with Frank I think. You can keep the tree dots if you must but get rid of the numbers at 1 and 2, the actual digits are the issue not the dots.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
That looks nice. Do we know what the price will be for it?
That looks nice. Do we know what the price will be for it?
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
Is this reticle only available on high power scope like the 25x?
Is this reticle only available on high power scope like the 25x?
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
reticle design input: consider replacing the odd numbers on the vertical scale with a "dot"
reticle design input: consider replacing the odd numbers on the vertical scale with a "dot"
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
I am guessing Horus will scream patent infringement,as they feel they own all sub tended reticles. But I like it.
I am guessing Horus will scream patent infringement,as they feel they own all sub tended reticles. But I like it.
Re: New Reticle Design from BDS and USO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am guessing Horus will scream patent infringement,as they feel they own all sub tended reticles. But I like it. </div></div>
You guessed right.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am guessing Horus will scream patent infringement,as they feel they own all sub tended reticles. But I like it. </div></div>
You guessed right.
Hey guys,
This reticle is not available and will not become available. We will be rolling out some new Horus reticles for all the T-Pal series scopes. Check our website in the near future for updates.
Jason
This reticle is not available and will not become available. We will be rolling out some new Horus reticles for all the T-Pal series scopes. Check our website in the near future for updates.
Jason
Frank, to quote one of the greatest bands that ever played, "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes, well you might just find, You get what you need."
I like the tree starting on the 1 mil mark. My 300 yard dope for my 260 is 1 Mil and my windage in 10mph is .4, to me that has value. Plus I'm paying part of the tooling costs, sooo....yeah.
I think Frank has been saying you can start the tree on the 1 mil mark -- but that you don't need to label it with a number 1 as everyone knows that's 1 because 2 is right below. And I'm with those who suggested you don't need any of the odd number labels. Thus, keep the tree as is, just delete the numbers "1", "3", etc. Hope that is clear and I'm reading you and Frank correctly.
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Now that is a very well, and carefully, worded answer. I think all the information is right there between the lines.
Comparable to an H 59 reticle in many ways. I like the vertical reticle milling ABOVE the horizontal reticle for hold-under on high angle shooting, That's something the H 59 reticle on my Bushnell ERS lacks and really needs.
Yeah, the 1 mil windage could be eliminated without affecting wind hold usability much as the horizontal reticle mills are nearby and can be used for that purpose.
All in all a nicely designed reticle that can eliminate a lot of "turret twisting" and speed up the send.
Yeah, the 1 mil windage could be eliminated without affecting wind hold usability much as the horizontal reticle mills are nearby and can be used for that purpose.
All in all a nicely designed reticle that can eliminate a lot of "turret twisting" and speed up the send.
THIS is great news for those of us using Horus reticles. I've wanted a USO but ended up buying other brands recently because of the limited choices in Horus reticles from USO. I look forward to the new additions.
I can do without the finer tic marks on the vertical. I still like tics finer on the horizontal line for wind. I think I'm in the minority though. I'm getting where I don't like the clutter of my Horus as much as I used to but I keep buying them for the .2 on the wind holds.
Now if I could get this in a tasco for my .22 I'd be really happy with matching turrets of course. Very nice layout..... 
I saw a reticle that looks almost exactly like the Horus H70 in a World War 2 Howitzer scope. I really think this is where the Horus inventor he got his (copied) inspiration from. He'd have a tough time defending his patent if a judge saw this Howitzer reticle.
