455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

[Anchor Zero Six]

Factory tapered barrel was cut to 16" recrowned and threaded for can. Stock was unmodified. Front support was a ruck rear was a Triad squeeze bag and all shots were fired from a bench at 25 yds 5 round groups except the one indicated as 10 round (was the best fired so I kept it).

Lilja barrel was fired same distance, position and support. Stock was pillar bedded as well as the first 1.5" of barrel. All groups were 10 round fired from two five round mags in under 1 min using a shot timer.

Ammo used (not shown is the CB shorts or the Rem bulk pak fired from the factory barrel)

Group pic of all the targets

Groups from factory barrel

Groups from Lilja barrel

16" CZ barrel
-CB shorts were just a bad idea lol 8" and I swear I saw one corkscrew out the barrel.
-American Eagle .455"
-Remington bulk pack .405"
-Aguilla SS .405"
-CCI Mini Mag .365"
-Remington HP .340" (10 round group)

21" Lilja
-Remington HP .410"
-CCI Mini Mag .310"
-Augilla SS .250"
-Fiocchi (40grn LRN) .250"
-American Eagle .215"
-Eley Target Rifle .210"
-Eley EPS .190" and .245" but I'm calling a flyer at top left that was 100% me so I went back and fired another 10 round group.

So whats it all mean? I have no idea as the Rem HP shot the best of the ammo fired from the factory barrel and was the worst from the Lilja. The AE was the worst out of the factory barrel but in the top three from the Lilja. I have NEVER spent $15.00 on a 50 round box of .22lr in my life but I have also never owned a high end rimfire so I was curious to try it. I may fire Eley from time to time but I was VERY happy that one of the cheapest ammo's tested fired only marginaly worse than the two most expensive match ammos.

Some quirks with the Lilja, the chamber is VERY tight and you realy have to use some effort to close the bolt also extraction wasnt as positive as with the factory barrel and I think the cuts may be a bit tight but I have not narrowed it down to that just yet. I dint have any failures to extract or eject but it wasnt as positive as the factory barrels were.

 

[catronro]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

That is some shooting right there...I have a lilja on my 10/22 and while its comparing apples and oranges, my groups arent that good.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

Not sure if I'm measuring properly...used navigation dividers to get as close to what I thought was center to center of furthest shots and measured that with the calipers. So close together its very difficult.

25 yds indoors no wind probably helps a little. Normally I wouldn't regard that as a viable measure of anything however rimfire matches are fired at this distance so I figured it could be relevant info.

Will get some yardage in when I have time off when its not raining ( Seattle area)

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

Well I got a chance to do some 100yd shooting afterwork today.

Honestly dont know what to think as part of me is thinking I made a 400.00 mistake.

Other part of me hasnt a clue what to expect from a .22lr at 100yds but if this was a centerfire I would already have it posted for sale.

OK lets get to it then...

Fired a few rounds of AE at 50 yds to rezero the scope then moved to 100 and made a few small adjustments. I then changed the target using a virgin target holder in case I "lost" any shots off of the paper. Conditions were overcast (Umm Seattle duh) and clarity wasnt great with the small objective of the optic and the cloud cover. Didnt get set up till 530 so I was racing against what little daylight I had. Temp 50 altitude 365. Rifle was set up on a sandbag that we use to hold down the target stands that I drapped my truck towel (for the muddy doggie) over and lastly the ever present Triad rear bag.

Here is the pic

Groups were measured outside edge to edge of furthest two shots. All groups are 10 round fired under 1 min with a mag change (2x5 round mags). As previously stated optic zeroed with AE but I didnt rezero for any other ammo fired, just held PAI. Any missing relevant info I overlooked just let me know.

Silver box Federal ammo wasnt listed in the 25yd test as I just picked up a brick today on my way home. Dont know what to call it only info I have is its in a silver and blue box and 510 is on one of the sides. Good news it is cheapreadily available and did the best of all ammo tested.

I couldnt find 2 shots and they were one each from the Eley ammo. I indicated where I think they hit but couldnt really tell. Fresh backer showed no stray off paper hits so I dont think I had any flyers esp with the Eley ammo

Federal=1.685 (2 hits Point Of Aim)
American Eagle=1.945 (4 hits POA)
Eley EPS=2.140
CCI Mini Mag=2.420 (1 hit POA)
Eley Target Rifle=2.625
Remington HP=2.700
Aguilla SS=2.625 (had to laugh at the 6" drop to the closest round from POA)
Fiocchi= 4.460

So what do I do with this data? I was dissapointed in the expensive Eley ammo, was I shooting beyond its intended range? Is this supposed to be used at 50yds?

The Fed ammo had the best group but the AE yeilded more hits on POA.

I have no pont of reference as to what a respectable 100yd .22lr group would be but as it stands now I'm not very happy.

Last gripe was the trigger...HORRIBLE. I reinstalled the factory trigger because I sent the Timney in for repair (wasnt catching the bolt). All I can say is I noticed it wasnt the Timney and there was a whole lot of creep by comparison.

 

[1shot2kill]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

start using the federal bulk pack
the eley yielded more hits because you zeroed for the eley

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

I can't believe I typed that ...hello NyQuill. Yeah zeroed with American Eagle (AE) .

 

[Jerz_Subbie]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

It does look rather poor. Federal Silver/blue box 510 is just that, Fed 510. It's also sometimes called Champion(that's what my 510 here says) and used to be Gameshok IIRC.

Try a couple others if you can. Maybe your barrel is really picky about ammo. Pick up some CCI SV, Green tag, and some Wolf MT or ET. If you can't get decent groups out of any then you know there's something else going on. But I'm no expert so I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable will chime in with thought.

 

[itguy]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

I would agree. Your groups are not near tight enough for some of that ammo you used. I know you were pressed for time. Is there any way you can do this test again? When you have good daylight, no wind to worry about etc? Your Eley should be tiny little groups at 100. I have no idea about the bulk stuff in the Lilja nor the Aguilla. I know its not near the same but I have never had great luck with a 10-22 or my recently sold 40x with anything but Eley or wolf. The Rem. HP was pretty good to in my 40x but not the 10-22 with Kidd.

I would get a couple boxes of each ammo again. This time do a good cleaning between the ammo changes. Re-zero every time for each ammo and make sure you shoot 10 or so shots to re-season the barrel every time. If you can find some Lapua Midas or RWS target and R50 I would try those as well. More expensive but might prove to do better. If it does the same thing it did with this test I would say you have a headspace or crown or some other issue.

Good luck. I am interested to see how this turns out as I think I want to go with a 455 instead of a more expensive Annie just to save some money right now.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

I've found that only quality ammunition will allow me to take advantage
of the accuracy of the Lila Varmint Taper on my 455 American.
At 50 yards placing 10 rounds inside a 3/8 inch diameter hole is not uncommon.

Obtaining sub-moa groups at 100 yards off bipod and rear bag
isn't difficult under calm wind conditions.

Using inexpensive ammunition means poorer quality control and factory seconds.
If the ammo isn't consistent, your accuracy won't be either.

The biggest problem I had in fine tuning my 455,
was eliminating play between the receiver/barrel and stock.
Only takes 2 thousandths of an inch play at the receiver
to make 6 tenths of an inch error at 50 yards. Pillaring,
epoxy shimming and an epoxy barrel support pad were needed
to remove the slop that was causing the non-human errors.

As for cleaning, a dry patch pulled from breech to muzzle
between ammo brand changes, is all that has been needed.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/rimfire_maintenance.htm

Anything more than that has made accuracy drop until the barrel is recoated.
Over cleaning just wastes quality ammo.
If you want to shoot cheap ammo, use the CZ factory barrel.
It's fine for when the accuracy required is minute of squirrel.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

I do beleive I have the issue narrowed down to stock fitment as jaia mentioned. Dont know if I would say its difficult to bed this action but all of my bedding up till now has been on 700's and I think I could do one of those blindfolded. I dont think I bedded enough of the barrel to give the needed support.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

Adding support to the barrel was the last thing I tried.
The Lilja Varmint Taper barrel weighs 40 ounces, factory barrel weighs 33.
That shifted the center of gravity of the scope, receiver/barrel assembly forward.

The CZ center of gravity is 1-1/4 inches forward of the receiver

The CG of the Lilja assembly is at 2-1/4 inches forward of the receiver

I used temporary shims made of automotive engine gasket material
to test for the best location for the support pad.
Trial and error led to the determination of the right spot.
Moving the shims, increasing the thickness of shims and firing 5 shot groups,
there was no doubt when the right location was achieved. Groups got tight.
No surprise when it turned out to be under the CG of the Lija setup.

I think the barrel support pad functions because it is dampening stock flex.
I found that the stock fore end can be manually deflected about 15 thousandths
off the line of the barrel before real resistance is apparent.
Using subsonic rounds, very little flex is created so accuracy is good.
Using supersonic 22 ammo or the 17 hmr barrel and ammo produced
greater recoil and as a result greater stock flex. That results
in a wider spread of trajectories at the target.
Dampening the flex eliminated the rifle caused fliers.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

Jaia you da man!

Poped the action out of the stock and found the balance point shown by the black mark on the tape on the barrel. The rear piece of tape on the stock is marking where the bedding curently ends and the forward mark is where the balance pint would be.

Since this was at this point still just a best guess as to what the cause of the problem may be I didnt want to do anything drastic in case this turned out not to be the cause of the issue. My solution was to use modeling clay as a stand in for bedding so I could see if it improved the groups at all.

Turns out it worked better than I could have wished for! These were the best 100yd groups I fired using Eley/Remington Target Rifle ammo. Top is 5 rounds (.380"), middle is 10(.880") and the bottom was 20(.825" not including the flyer that was my fault)!

 

[tmshot]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

wow,
Huge difference, how about the cheap stuff? Any better there?

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

Yeah the AE and the Fed 510 were hovering around an inch or so for 5 rounds but I had some wind actually very light breeze which was enough to screw up any pic worthy groups so I didnt bother.

By the time I moved to the Eley TR there was no breeze to deal with.

Speaking of wind or rather breeze, it was very eye opening to see just how very little it takes to move a rimfire pill. I understand the reasons why but I had never really seen it first hand. Probably one of the reasons alot of rimfire matches are held indoors lol.

Oh to follow up on the above post I will be bedding the stock barrel channel this week with bedding compound now that the clay proved the concept to be sound.

 

[shooterman_zero17]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

That's what I'm talkin about. Damn good shooting.

And good info here too, which obviously works. I'm taking notes on this for later.

 

[Turk]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

Keep the clay in there!!!

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

LMFAO!

Probably should but its pretyy compressable so I want to go a less temporary and more ridgid route...but I appreciate the suggestion

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

Anchor Zero Six,
I normally just read what's posted here in order to learn more.
I make no claims to any real skill or knowledge, but when this line was posted...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Honestly dont know what to think as part of me is thinking I made a 400.00 mistake.</div></div>

and having been through the same learning curve myself,
figured I'd help flatten the learning curve a little, and calm some nerves.
Lilja makes quality barrels, have to work hard to equal them.

Looks like your Lilja barrel dropped right in, I wasn't so lucky.
Mine took some work to assemble. Not Lilja's fault as the
the CZ machining process left some ridges in my receiver.
Between that and some heavy bluing, the Lilja barrel wouldn't fit.
Had to put a drop of lapping compound in the receiver and
hand lap the CZ receiver and Lilja barrel tenon to fit.
A very tight fit.

You can see the results of the lapping in the pics...

And there is a definite difference between a match chamber and the CZ chamber.
The CZ is intended to be a sporter/hunting rifle. Possibility of dirt or inclement weather
when being used, not to mention the variety of ammo that might have to fit.
So the chamber is a little sloppy to guarantee loading and extraction even under bad conditions.
As a result most 22lr ammo will drop right in with room to spare
and a bit of play...

Whereas the Lilja has a match chamber meant for range/bench use and top of the line ammo.
The bullet will engage the rifling before the round is fully seated.
Chamber walls are in contact with all sides of the brass when loading.
Not worried about dirt or out of tolerance casings...

Better explained here...

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/chamber_info.htm

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

Everything about this endevor has been a bit humbling. I have built from a pile of parts a few 700 based rifles and bedded six or seven over the last year. Driving a centerfire also is something I'm very at ease doing.

FF to playing with an animal of a whole new breed and its like resetting to a knowledge level of zero. I actually am enjoying it I like to learn new things as the years go by.

My interests change over time, started shooting then building 1911's got bored moved to AR's got bored moved to bolts and 308 AR's, got into working on and building AK's for a stint now onto precision rimfires and an urge to get something vintage as well. In the end I enjoy tinkering as much as shooting so I dont consider any of it a waste of time.

At any rate we all have something to learn and something to teach and thats what makes these forums the welth of info that they are.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we all have something to learn</div></div>

That's why I'm here...
I'll be watching as you continue to update this thread.
One last thought though: After going through all the trouble
of purchasing a rifle with a free-floated barrel, which is
supposed to be the accepted form of an accurate match grade rifle,
we had to go through all the trouble of finding the right spot
to back-fill and un-float the barrel. Who knew?

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

Well mine wasn't a varmint so I had to open up the channel. In theory it shouldn't matter but perhaps the varmint stock has more mass thereby possibly more rigid....I donno just a guess.

 

[shooterman_zero17]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything about this endevor has been a bit humbling....At any rate we all have something to learn and something to teach and thats what makes these forums the welth of info that they are.

</div></div>

I second the humbling bit...shooting my CZ has made me a better shooter without a doubt. Even after not shooting for just a little, it will take me a few groups to get back into it. Those first groups sometimes make me second guess myself and the money I've spent...

...that or second guess myself for not getting out and shooting more often.

I will keep watching this as well; I'm especially interested to see your after results from bedding instead of model clay-ing the barrel.

 

[tmshot]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

I couldn't resist. Got the lilja this week. Thanks to Ao6 and Jaia for making it utterly impossible to pass up.

I hope A06 doesn't mind a little thread high jacking. I had a little time at the range.

This was at 50. 5 shots. top one was not in this group.

Gotta find that cheap high velocity ammo that it likes too. This is the blue box federal.. not bad

Mini-mags... Not as good as expected. I'm going to try everything in the bargain bin... haha

only had one good crack at 100 yds.

was really rushed to get home and help wrangle a two year old.

Looks like I will need to play with the weight center and find that sweet spot as well. Thanks for sharing guys. This thing is a tack driver. Can't wait to try a bunch more types of ammo.
And oh so nice with that bull barrel

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

If you're looking for an inexpensive ammo for the range or hunting,
the Lilja likes CCI Standard Velocity. About 25 bucks a brick.
At 50 yds the CCI SV shoots as well from the Lilja as Wolf ME from the CZ factory barrel.
The subsonic rounds are more accurate due to less wind deflection.
Those supersonic 22 rounds create a sail out of compressed air molecules
which increases the rounds apparent surface area and wind loading.

 

[tmshot]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Sounds good. They will be next on my list. I am looking for the best hunting ammo out of this rig, out to 100 yds.

Another question. Does anyone notice the bolt was hard to close even without a round in? Thinking about lapping around the bolt handle area a little bit. This seems to be the locking "lug" area. Thoughts?

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

The fed and AE shoot decent enough for me for most of my plinking needs. I'll be saving the match stuff for my ocd moments.

Very nice looking rifle was it a factory varmint? Or did you need to do any stock work on the barrel channel?

Imho get that barrel supported a wee bit better and your groups will shrink. Clay worked well for me as a temp fix.

 

[tmshot]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

American like yours. Dowel rod with sand paper opened it up quickly and easily. I'll be working on the barrel channel to support it as well.
Does your bolt close hard?

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Yes its the tight match chamber.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

According to Lilja, you will have to work to close the bolt
First comment on chamber page...

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/chamber_info.htm

 

[tmshot]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

I see.
Mine is closing tight WITHOUT a round in. I don't think the chamber should have anything to do with it. I'll take another look tonight.
Thanks Guys

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Hmmm yeah don't know about that one. It closed just fine before I assume?

Maybe try removing and reinstalling it, but this time loosen the rear screw that holds the mag well. Tighten after barrel is installed.

Let us know how it works out.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

TMshot,
Did you check the tenon length on the Lilja barrel
compared to the tenon length of the CZ factory barrel?
Easy enough to set breech face to tenon shoulder of the two barrels
and see if there's a gap at the end of one of the tenon/shoulders.

Did you check the headspace of the 2 barrels also?

AZ6,
Had a chance to range test the newly bedded barrel?

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

No not yet, we are back to wet and soggy days as of late. First clear day I'm all over it.

 

[tmshot]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

I did not have too much time with it last night. I took the barreled action out, I am going to need to open of the stock a tiny bit more on the right side.
When I put it back together it seemed to cycle the action much easier.
I will have to examine it closer when I have more time.
Thanks for the suggestions. I will try them as well.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Had a chance to hit the range for a short time yesterday. All out of match ammo more should arrive tomorrow from midway.

The fed 510 actually grouped better but it was hitting two different poi from poa. Of 10 rounds fired per group about 3-5 would hit low right about an inch but the groups were nice and tight. Think I need to start sorting ammo by weight and rim thickness.

AE was shooting at an inch (measured edge to edge) for 3 10 round groups at 100 yds. Calling the flyer in this one, the Timney is taking some getting use to as my CF rifles all have 3.5# triggers. Other two groups were about the same but had more shooter mistakes (flyers) so this was the most pic worthy lol

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

MOA at 100 yards is pretty good for inexpensive ammo.
Doesn't happen for me. Too many high or low flyers caused
by inconsistent powder/primer amounts. Only way the Lilja
will produce moa/sub-moa for me is with the quality ammo.
Are you satisfied with the barrel bedding,
or do you see more adjustment being needed?

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Happy so far, will dive further into it when I have some quality ammo. All in all I'm pretty sure bedding the barrel was the final step and nothing more will need to be done.

 

[Tempest 455]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

100 gets tough w/ the wind. Hard to expect groups like you get at 25 ot 50. My Savage will make one big cloverleaf hole at 50 with Eley Tenex. However, best I can muster at 100 (so far) is the following at 100 yards.

 

[dddoo7]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

does lilja make drop in barrels for the 455, your are you all having them installed by a smith? I am still up in the air between a CZ or a MKII, and a lilja drop in option would seal the decision.

 

[tmshot]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Drops right in,
If you get the varmint Taper contour, there is little modification to the 455 american stock.
If you go with the straight bull barrel you need to open up the stock a little more, but its not bad.
If you get a 455 Varmint, there should be no stock modification at all.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

The design of the 455 is to be able to swap barrels when you feel like it.
Get comfortable with the rifle, change the barrel to fit the intent.
No need for multiple rifles and the expense of buying them.

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Match the rimfire ammo to the situation.
22WMR for jackrabbits, 22lr for squirrels, 17 hmr for meat spray.
With a Lilja match grade barrel and some minor modifications
it's surprising how accurate a CZ 455 becomes.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Its really cool when you can find a thread documenting in great detail complete with photographs all of the work done to, and load testing for, the exact rifle you just bought. Thanks Snipershide and Anchor.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

this is a very interesting thread and amazing what that clay did.

i thought the original groups with the original barrel were off, my 455 varmint really puts some nice groups out there at 50 100 and 200.

but that lilja and the clay - is just breathtaking.

hats off to jaia for the "sweet spot" lesson, that is really valuable and appreciated information to use on CZ's or any other rifle.

great freekin thread, keeping it my "to go to" file!

 

[FAL1123]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Anchor Zero Six,
Did you measure your action's 'balance point' with or without your scope attached? I agree with TOP PREDATOR your after clay groups are amazing! I want to try and bed my savage, but part of me thinks I just need to start saving up for a CZ.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

FAL, don't get hung up on the center of gravity.
Every rifle has it's own "personality" due to the way
the parts are machined and assembled. My CZ 455 requires
different barrel shim placements, depending on whether
I have the CZ 22lr barrel, CZ 17 hmr barrel or the Lilja 22lr installed.
The Lilja liked the support pad at the CG. Both the CZ 22 and 17
barrels like a wrap-around shim all the way at the fore end of the stock.

I tested barrel shim placement beginning at the receiver, working
towards the muzzle, inch by inch. Tried loose shims and hard shims
at each location and firing 5 shot groups to test the result.
When you find the "sweet" spot, there's no doubt, groups get tight.
A roll of automotive engine gasket material, scissors and some ammo
made for an interesting morning at the range doing trial and error testing.

Here's a sample target from one of my shim-test sessions
note the last group, bottom left, hard shim set at end of forestock.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FAL1123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anchor Zero Six,
Did you measure your action's 'balance point' with or without your scope attached? I agree with TOP PREDATOR your after clay groups are amazing! I want to try and bed my savage, but part of me thinks I just need to start saving up for a CZ. </div></div>

Scope was removed, just the barreled action.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GOLDBEACHMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its really cool when you can find a thread documenting in great detail complete with photographs all of the work done to, and load testing for, the exact rifle you just bought. Thanks Snipershide and Anchor.</div></div>

<span style="font-size: 17pt">No really. What I meant to say was,<span style="font-style: italic"> I just bought Anchor Zero Six's Lilja barreled CZ 455</span> and it is due here in 3 days. Where else would it be possible to obtain the detailed history of work and testing on the gun other than Snipershide!

Thanks again Anchor!</span>

 

[Bubb]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

You really need to try more ammo. Other than the eley most of that is junk. Try CCI standard velocity, lupua, federal gold metal match, wolf extra match. You need mutipul 5 round groups of each. By the looks your using a tight hold??? The .22 is a total different beast than a center fire. But with practice can b shot very far, very accurate. I bet my buddy's I can hit a beer can at 200 yards in one clip. I buy my ammo that way...

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Did you bother reading the thread?

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: 455/ Lilja range report(100yd update)

Wow, just one <span style="font-style: italic">clip</span>!

Finish now oil rubbed, USO and Badger Mini Tac knob.