Help choosing caliber for long action build

R

rusty815

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 24, 2011
907
4
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Los Angeles, CA
#1
Hey guys, I just recently bought a long action Savage off of someone on another forum and was wondering what caliber to make it into, it comes with both a standard and magnum bolthead, so my options are pretty broad, I really have no idea which direction I want to take this build, but here are a few ideas:

-6.5x284: Always wanted a 6.5, was planning on doing a switchbarrel with my 300WSM but seeing as how the 284 is a laser I thought I might give that a chance, don't have any idea as to what barrel length or twist to make it

-7RM: I love 7mm cartridges, I have a 7mm-08 and want something a little bigger, again open to suggestions on this one

-7RSAUM/7WSM: Same as the 7RM, I understand these two perform very well out of a long action, and after hearing about the new 195gr. rounds that are coming out sometime next year, this might seem like a good idea

-338EDGE: Don't have a 338 yet, I thought the Edge might be a good idea since others have built an edge on a Savage Small shank and it seems to be just as potent as the 338LM


These were just idea's, but I'm really open to suggestions. I want something that will work well for hunting and target shooting at long ranges, also want to make this a lightweight build, although that would be a very bad idea for the 338. I'm starting to regret buying this action because I know I will have a hard time deciding on what to do with it
mad.gif
In the mean time, I should get around to ordering a stock for it...
 
#4
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

Alright, after a lot of research, I am starting to lean towards the 284, but I need a little more convincing. What kind of velocities can I expect out of a 24" barrel with 160-180gr. Rounds when loaded long, let's say 3.15-3.2 OAL? I would most likely be using reloader 17, since that is what I use in my other rifles and it works very well.
 
#5
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

After doing a lot of research I went with the 6.5-284 norma. I would get at least a 26inch barrel otherwise it becomes really hard to get 2900fps. I wanted a low recoil option since I already have a 300wsm. If recoil is not a concern then I would look at 7wsm. 6mmbr.com has some great reading on these calibers and charts comparing them. I am working up a load now for the 6.5 with 140 berger vld .612 bc for mule deer.
 
#6
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

Im really happy with My 7mm saum. Its been together for a few months now, and Its been impressive.

Its an absolute laser from 0-1100yds

It seen most of its action from 1500-2400yds (never thought I would be shooting this far)
 
#8
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

First, decide what you want the rifle to accomplish.

The cartridges you mentioned all excel at different things.

A moderate 7mm such as the 284, 280 and 280AI are excellent all-around cartridges that provide great performance but nonetheless, are bested by others in specific applications.

ETA: Based on my experiences with a 25.5", 29.25" and 28.25" bartered 284 Win, I would absolutely NOT go less than 26" with this cartridge. It seems to lose ~40fps/inch from ~25" to 30".
 
#9
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

26" is almost too long for me, like I specified I want this to be a lightweight build with excellent long range capabilities, the 284 seems to offer this with its moderate recoil and decent velocities. If 2800fps were possible with a 24" barrel and 180gr. Bergers (I believe Reloader 17 can get me there), then I will go with the 284, if not then I guess I can compromise with a 26" barrel.
 
#10
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.....If 2800fps were possible with a 24" barrel and 180gr. Bergers (I believe Reloader 17 can get me there), then I will go with the 284, if not then I guess I can compromise with a 26" barrel. </div></div>

I think 2800 with 180gr bullet from a 24" tube is going to be a tall order, personally... Even with RL17. 2800-2850 is what 30" barrels get from reasonable pressure charges of H4831sc under 180s.

I caution you, and anyone else dreaming of magnum velocities from the 284:

The 284 is not a magnum. Leaning on it with stiff charges will torch the barrel as if it WERE a magnum, while still not performing like one.

If you want 2800+ from a 180gr 7mm, particularly from a 24" barrel, get a magnum. That said, what makes 2800fps a magic number for you? What kind of ranges will you be shooting out to? What ranges are readily available to you? What is 2800fps going to do that 2700 won't?

I ask these questions, because a bullet with a .67 BC @ even a modest 2650 is a HELLUVA performer. Same bullet @ 2800 will be a bit flatter, but has only a minor advantage in windage until you are out to ELR range.

Again, specifically define the objective of this rifle. "Lightweight" and "long range" are quite vague.
 
#11
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.....If 2800fps were possible with a 24" barrel and 180gr. Bergers (I believe Reloader 17 can get me there), then I will go with the 284, if not then I guess I can compromise with a 26" barrel. </div></div>

I think 2800 with 180gr bullet from a 24" tube is going to be a tall order, personally... Even with RL17. 2800-2850 is what 30" barrels get from reasonable pressure charges of H4831sc under 180s.

I caution you, and anyone else dreaming of magnum velocities from the 284:

The 284 is not a magnum. Leaning on it with stiff charges will torch the barrel as if it WERE a magnum, while still not performing like one.

If you want 2800+ from a 180gr 7mm, particularly from a 24" barrel, get a magnum. That said, what makes 2800fps a magic number for you? What kind of ranges will you be shooting out to? What ranges are readily available to you? What is 2800fps going to do that 2700 won't?

I ask these questions, because a bullet with a .67 BC @ even a modest 2650 is a HELLUVA performer. Same bullet @ 2800 will be a bit flatter, but has only a minor advantage in windage until you are out to ELR range.

Again, specifically define the objective of this rifle. "Lightweight" and "long range" are quite vague. </div></div>

with 2800fps it basically duplicates the trajectory of my 208gr. AMAX load in my 300WSM, which makes for less guessing in between both rifles. I want a lightweight build, something in the 7lbs range, and don't want to be killed by recoil, which is why I looked at the 284 when it was mentioned. I also want something that can reach out to about 1500-1700 yards, I essentially want a multipurpose gun, one that is light and I can carry around hunting, and at the same time match my 300WSM's trajectory so I can shoot it instead of my 300WSM when I get bored of it and not have to do a lot of guesswork, the 284 almost seems to fit this bill.

Hodgon lists the highest velocity from a 24" barrel with Sierra 175's at 2722fps which is fine (especially since I am going to run this in a long action, so I should be able to get a little more out of it), and according to 6mmBR, RL-17 is capable of giving 100-200fps more than other powders, which should put me in the 2800fps range with RL-17 using book max loads. as long as I can get within 2750-2800 I will be happy.
 
#12
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

I'd go .280/.280AI for a 24" barrel. I agree with Turbo, 2800 out of a 24" .284 is leaning on it pretty hard. Basically you will get less velocity than a magnum with the same barrel life. Everyone I shoot with that runs a .284 is in the 2750 to 2850 range, with 2850 out of 30" tubes. Mine runs 2760 with H4350/175smk and a 26" tube.
 
#13
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im really happy with My 7mm saum. Its been together for a few months now, and Its been impressive.

Its an absolute laser from 0-1100yds.......
</div></div>

+1 on the 7mm RSAUM. Mine is built on a 25" barrel with 1:9 twist. My elevation to 1K is 7.1 mil on my lightest load which JBM calculates out at around 2950fps. I pushed it to 3050/3075fps(around 6.4-6.5 mil drop at 1k) but the bolt started getting sticky.

Shoots very comfy with a brake and feels like a magnum without it...

 
#14
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Overflow10</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im really happy with My 7mm saum. Its been together for a few months now, and Its been impressive.

Its an absolute laser from 0-1100yds.......
</div></div>

+1 on the 7mm RSAUM. Mine is built on a 25" barrel with 1:9 twist. My elevation to 1K is 7.1 on my lightest load which JBM calculates out at around 2950fps. I pushed it to 3050/3075fps(around 6.4-6.5 mil drop at 1k) but the bolt started getting sticky.

Shoots very comfy with a brake and feels like a magnum without it...

</div></div>

What weight bullet are you shooting? how heavy is the rifle?
 
#15
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

Rusty,
I have:
1. 6.5-284 with a 26 inch #5Pac-nor barrel, McM a3 stock Nightforce 3.5-15x50. 11 lbs, 140vlds @ 2947 w/50.3g h4831sc

2. 284win with a 25 inch #6 McGowen fluted, McM a5 stock, NF 5.5-22x56. 12.25 lbs. 180 vlds @3025 w/51.2g RL17.

3. 7mm RSAUM with 27 inch Lt.Target Mcgowen, Manners T4 stock, IOR Valdada 4-16x50 scope. 15.75lbs. 180vlds @ 2960 with 59.5g h4831sc.

The 6.5 is great for targets and hunting as well, but doesn't have the whack that the 180s do. The recoil is VERY mild. This is my second 6.5-284 and I just don't see the barrel burning aspect to be as bad as advertised. My old one had 1500+ rounds and was still 3/4 moa just like it was new. I sold it to fund my new one.
The 7SAUM has been disappointing so far. The brass is poor and the velocity is lacking but I'm still testing loads. Accuracy is good but recoil is stiff. Spotting your own hits will be tough w/o a break. Powder consumption is dissapointing for the velocity.
The 284 is impressive to me. My velocity seems to be fast by standards set for 284s, but I've chronied multiple times. I have gone as high as 52.5 grains but started getting signs of pressure. 284 brass is poor but 6.5-284 brass is excellent and affordable. Accuracy is excellent, 1/2 MOA out to 1000 if I am up to it. Knockdown power of the 180 vlds is nothing short of amazing. As far as recoil, this rifle has a break, but spotting your own is easy.
As far as stocks go, if it's going to be a switch barrel, you might consider a chassis system that will accomadate both barrels. But that is truly your call. Just my 2cents but it would be simple.
Good luck,
Shag
 
#16
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Overflow10</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im really happy with My 7mm saum. Its been together for a few months now, and Its been impressive.

Its an absolute laser from 0-1100yds.......
</div></div>

+1 on the 7mm RSAUM. Mine is built on a 25" barrel with 1:9 twist. My elevation to 1K is 7.1 on my lightest load which JBM calculates out at around 2950fps. I pushed it to 3050/3075fps(around 6.4-6.5 mil drop at 1k) but the bolt started getting sticky.

Shoots very comfy with a brake and feels like a magnum without it...

</div></div>

What weight bullet are you shooting? how heavy is the rifle?</div></div>

Ooops should have included that. 180 Berger hunting VLDs... going to start checking out the 168 Berger VLDs this weekend. For some reason it has not really liked the 162 AMAX rounds I tried.
 
#17
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

Rifles are picky when it comes to AMAX rounds, my 300WSM loves em, my 30-06 hates em, could never get any better than 1.5MOA with then in my 06. I wonder how a 7lbs 7RSAUM rifle would compare to a 300WSM 10lbs rifle in terms of recoil, any ideas?

Shaggy: are you sure it was 3000fps with the 284 out of a 25" barrel with 180gr. rounds? That would be damn hard even with a WSM, are you sure you didn't mean something like 162-168gr.?
 
#18
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...... I wonder how a 7lbs 7RSAUM rifle would compare to a 300WSM 10lbs rifle in terms of recoil, any ideas?
.....</div></div>

Mine is a 25" #5 fluted Brux, BLD, Stiller Predator, RAD removable brake, on a Manners adjustable TA stock. It came in at 9.2lbs with bipod but w/o optics.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post3516551

I shot about 50 rounds with it in a match without the brake. Not sure I want to do that again. With a brake it is comfortable to shoot - kind of like a 308 without a brake, However when I got over 61.5gr of H4831sc or shot it without a brake it felt like a magnum. If the rifle was a light weight hunting rifle then maybe. But for any other purpose without a brake I would want it heavier than the 9.2lbs I have now.

My 2 cents.
 
#19
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

Really? My 300WSM weighs 10.5lbs fully loaded and I have shot as many as 85 shots with it in a single day without getting beat up too bad, it is without a muzzle brake. How bad was it without a brake?

BTW, what would be the lightest contour you could use on a 7RSAUM or 284? I'm thinking I would go with a #3 or a #2, heaviest would probably be a #4.
 
#20
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really? My 300WSM weighs 10.5lbs fully loaded and I have shot as many as 85 shots with it in a single day without getting beat up too bad, it is without a muzzle brake. How bad was it without a brake?

BTW, what would be the lightest contour you could use on a 7RSAUM or 284? I'm thinking I would go with a #3 or a #2, heaviest would probably be a #4. </div></div>

I guess "bad" depends upon the person. I shoot a braked 308, 260 with removable brake, light weight 270, and now the 7RSAUM. The braked RSAUM does not feel that much different to me than the 308. I have shot 7lb unbraked 300WM at the range I was happy to be done at 15 rounds. Not sure how this compares with the 300WSM.

Without the brake there is significantly more kick and I definitely loose the ability to track my own shots. Lots more muzzle jump.

I am very happy with the Brux #5 contour; it finishes off at the brake/25" at about 0.73 inch. It is smaller than say a Bartlein #5. I also had mine fluted so it is a bit lighter.

I compared how hot the barrel got as compared to my 260 when firing off 10x right in a row. If felt very comparable to the heavier 260 barrel which is a Rem varmint contour (finishes off at 0.83 at 22in). It did not heat up like my old Tikka T3 270 sporter barrel which got hotter faster. The one thing I would check with a smith on is if you want to use a brake - mine seems just about as small as you want with using the removable brake...
 
#21
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Overflow10</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im really happy with My 7mm saum. Its been together for a few months now, and Its been impressive.

Its an absolute laser from 0-1100yds.......
</div></div>

+1 on the 7mm RSAUM. Mine is built on a 25" barrel with 1:9 twist. My elevation to 1K is 7.1 on my lightest load which JBM calculates out at around 2950fps. I pushed it to 3050/3075fps(around 6.4-6.5 mil drop at 1k) but the bolt started getting sticky.

Shoots very comfy with a brake and feels like a magnum without it...

</div></div>

What weight bullet are you shooting? how heavy is the rifle? </div></div>



Mine is just over 20 pounds with a scope, mcree chassis, and a 31" krieger hv #17. It wasn't built to carry around, it is for elr shooting. Mine loves 180 vlds(hunting or target).

I run a brake all the time but I have shot it without the brake, and its no where near as harsh as a 300wm.
 
#22
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5Shaggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

2. 284win with a 25 inch #6 McGowen fluted, McM a5 stock, NF 5.5-22x56. 12.25 lbs. 180 vlds @3025 w/51.2g RL17.</div></div>

Sorry, but I don't believe this...

Don't think anybody else does either.
 
#23
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Overflow10</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really? My 300WSM weighs 10.5lbs fully loaded and I have shot as many as 85 shots with it in a single day without getting beat up too bad, it is without a muzzle brake. How bad was it without a brake?

BTW, what would be the lightest contour you could use on a 7RSAUM or 284? I'm thinking I would go with a #3 or a #2, heaviest would probably be a #4. </div></div>

I guess "bad" depends upon the person. I shoot a braked 308, 260 with removable brake, light weight 270, and now the 7RSAUM. The braked RSAUM does not feel that much different to me than the 308. I have shot 7lb unbraked 300WM at the range I was happy to be done at 15 rounds. Not sure how this compares with the 300WSM.

Without the brake there is significantly more kick and I definitely loose the ability to track my own shots. Lots more muzzle jump.

I am very happy with the Brux #5 contour; it finishes off at the brake/25" at about 0.73 inch. It is smaller than say a Bartlein #5. I also had mine fluted so it is a bit lighter.

I compared how hot the barrel got as compared to my 260 when firing off 10x right in a row. If felt very comparable to the heavier 260 barrel which is a Rem varmint contour (finishes off at 0.83 at 22in). It did not heat up like my old Tikka T3 270 sporter barrel which got hotter faster. The one thing I would check with a smith on is if you want to use a brake - mine seems just about as small as you want with using the removable brake... </div></div>

Thats not bad, how much does the barrel weigh? around 3 1/2 or 3 3/4 pounds? it weighs 4lbs at 28" I think. I'm looking to keep the barrel right at around 3lbs, maybe go with a Shilen #5 contour with maybe 25", that might be around 3-3 1/2 lbs. Not sure about getting a muzzle brake yet, I've never felt I've needed them even with the big magnums. but I might have to try a lightweight 7SAUM to see. Still a little indecisive between this and the 284, need to decide whether I want more velocity or less recoil.
 
#24
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Overflow10</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im really happy with My 7mm saum. Its been together for a few months now, and Its been impressive.

Its an absolute laser from 0-1100yds.......
</div></div>

+1 on the 7mm RSAUM. Mine is built on a 25" barrel with 1:9 twist. My elevation to 1K is 7.1 on my lightest load which JBM calculates out at around 2950fps. I pushed it to 3050/3075fps(around 6.4-6.5 mil drop at 1k) but the bolt started getting sticky.

Shoots very comfy with a brake and feels like a magnum without it...

</div></div>

What weight bullet are you shooting? how heavy is the rifle? </div></div>



Mine is just over 20 pounds with a scope, mcree chassis, and a 31" krieger hv #17. It wasn't built to carry around, it is for elr shooting. Mine loves 180 vlds(hunting or target).

I run a brake all the time but I have shot it without the brake, and its no where near as harsh as a 300wm.


</div></div>

thats good to know, don't plan on building one that heavy though anytime soon. hows that mcree? I might pick one up if I get a bit more money, for now I have my mind set on a Mcmillan edge technology A-5 though.
 
#27
Re: Help choosing caliber for long action build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
thats good to know, don't plan on building one that heavy though anytime soon. hows that mcree? I might pick one up if I get a bit more money, for now I have my mind set on a Mcmillan edge technology A-5 though. </div></div>


I run the Mcree folders on both of my rifles, Love them.
 
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