6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

[QuickGT]

Title kinda says it all. I just finished building my rifle and went out this weekend to test out and it just will not feed. I started with 2 rounds in the mag, and charged it...good to go. squeeze one off and boom...feel recoil and the weapon cycle..Reset sight picture and squeeze...click.
Drop the mag and there is my second round with typical marks on the brass where it got smacked and the BCG drug across it.
I checked everything in the gun and all was well...lubed the hell out of it and reset with only one round. Fired fine but bolt would not lock back...I played around for a few hrs trying different things but same results.

Here is the set-up:
Mega Arms MATEN Billet Set
20” Centurion Barrel
JP Muzzle Break
Troy Gas Block
“Rifle Length” Gas tube
JP Hand Guard
DPMS Lower Parts Kit (trigger feel is CRAP)
Magpul UBR Stock / Grip
JP Silent Capture Spring
**Fired 120g Hornady A-Max
After I got home and started cleaning the guns I realized the gas tube on the MATEN did not extend as far into the receiver as the AR15…looks about ¼” shorter. I have convinced myself this is the culprit but still want to hear other opinions?

Chris

 

[KYS]

Re: 6.5 Creed

Have you tried an different kind of mag?

 

[QuickGT]

Re: 6.5 Creed

Actually no I didn't, that was the only thing I couldn't do... My dumbass only bought one

 

[match308]

Re: 6.5 Creed

Make sure your gas port is aligned with the gas block. And make sure you're using the correct buffer. If its too long, the bolt won't be able to come far enough back to pickup the new round. If you're using Pmags, about one out of three seemed to work in my rig

 

[Bennybone]

Re: 6.5 Creed

I would think that if your gas port was "short" or not fully engaged to your gas key that you would see more carbon around that area within the upper receiver.

Your photo appears clean around that area so I doubt your leaking there.

BB

 

[BigJohn141]

Re: 6.5 Creed

What kind of buffer are you using? I am no AR10 expert put you cant run a normal buffer/spring combo I believe, it has to be a special shortened one. The regular ones in a UBR wont allow the BCG to travel all the way back and you will end up with your exact problem.

 

[QuickGT]

Re: 6.5 Creed

Double checked gas port today by measure and soot mark...aligned good. I am using a PMAG but seems to have good pressure and doesn't bind

I only shot 12 rounds through it so there wasn't a whole lot of carbon anywhere, but after measuring today the gas tube is only .4" inside the key while locked. I'm thinking the gas impulse is being bled off too soon

I'm using a JP silent buffer. It's carbine length for use in the UBR

The gun cycles fine by hand ans has no hard spots or binding...just the normal new not as smooth feeling

 

[smschulz]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuickGT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
After I got home and started cleaning the guns I realized the gas tube on the MATEN did not extend as far into the receiver as the AR15…looks about ¼” shorter. I have convinced myself this is the culprit but still want to hear other opinions?

</div></div>
I think you may be on to something ~ my MA TEN extends about another quarter inch or so.
At any rate it is definitely a gas issue and I would look at this first for sure.
I would take off the gas block and verify that the the port is properly exposed.

 

[Ballista One]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

Whose gas tube are you using on whose barrel? An AR-10 rifle length gas tube is 3/16 of inch longer than a Colt gas tube.

 

[QuickGT]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

It's a "standard rifle length" has tube. I just learned yesterday the Armalite one is longer but didn't know the MATEN needed the extra length. Armalite gas tube will be here tomorrow or the next day.
To anyone else with MATEN's, can you look at yours and post a pict for me....
SMSHULTZ.... Thanks

 

[BiggHertz]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuickGT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a "standard rifle length" has tube. I just learned yesterday the Armalite one is longer but didn't know the MATEN needed the extra length. Armalite gas tube will be here tomorrow or the next day.
To anyone else with MATEN's, can you look at yours and post a pict for me....
SMSHULTZ.... Thanks </div></div>

Ma-Ten
Rainier UltraMatch 20"
DPMS BCG
DPMS Barrel Extension
Ar-15 Rifle Length Gas Tube

Hope this helps

-Jason

 

[QuickGT]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

Wow, not that's odd. Now I wonder more WTF... I assembled my AR and the MATEN a few days apart and they had identical gas tubes. Is there any chance you installed an AR10 gas tube (Armalite)? I wonder if my barrel has the gas port in the correct place... Anyone have a dimension on that?

 

[BiggHertz]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

Gas block roll pin to receiver end of gas tube is approx 15"

 

[QuickGT]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

Hmmm.... Mine is 14 3/4. Wonder if the DPMS style tubes are just shorter

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

Just by looking at your photo of the handguard to gas block distance I can telll you need a armalite ar10 gas tube.

 

[BCP]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

Well, to further confuse you my cobbled together DPMS 308 gas tube protrudes just as far as yours does and it works great...

 

[QuickGT]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

Awesome thanks ;(. Things always have a kink when you meticulously plan every piece and part.

So the distance from the block to the hand guard is my missing length? That's handy.... Who and the hell comes up with this stuff , would it be too hard to standardize a tube length lmao.

 

[RuLins05]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

I would start with the silent capture spring and make sure that a regular 308 carbine buffer/ spring combo works correctly ($34 from MidwayUSA). The gas tube length shouldn't matter. There are different profiles on the 308 size rifle barrels that put the gas block shoulder at slightly different positions but the length of the gas tube should be just fine. I've built several 308 size rifles and used barrels from several companies while using AR-15 length gas tubes and the section of gas tube within your upper looks to be okay.

 

[POF-USA]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuickGT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Title kinda says it all. I just finished building my rifle and went out this weekend to test out and it just will not feed. I started with 2 rounds in the mag, and charged it...good to go. squeeze one off and boom...feel recoil and the weapon cycle..Reset sight picture and squeeze...click.
Drop the mag and there is my second round with typical marks on the brass where it got smacked and the BCG drug across it.
I checked everything in the gun and all was well...lubed the hell out of it and reset with only one round. Fired fine but bolt would not lock back...I played around for a few hrs trying different things but same results.

Here is the set-up:
Mega Arms MATEN Billet Set


20” Centurion Barrel
JP Muzzle Break
Troy Gas Block
“Rifle Length” Gas tube
JP Hand Guard
DPMS Lower Parts Kit (trigger feel is CRAP)
Magpul UBR Stock / Grip
JP Silent Capture Spring
**Fired 120g Hornady A-Max
After I got home and started cleaning the guns I realized the gas tube on the MATEN did not extend as far into the receiver as the AR15…looks about ¼” shorter. I have convinced myself this is the culprit but still want to hear other opinions?

Chris
</div></div>

This may be a buffer and buffer spring issue.
Remember the heavier the buffer the more gas is required to operate and cycle the weapon system and hold the bolt open.
Hopefully this information may help you.
Buffer for fixed stocks on .308

Best regards,

Frank L. DeSomma
President
Patriot Ordnance Factory. Inc.
www.POF-USA.com

 

[section88]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

Any update QuickGT? I installed my 6.5 CM barrel from fulton armory with an ar15 rifle length gas tube and my gas tube sticks out as far as yours, which looks short. I haven't fired my maten yet just wondering if I should get a different gas tube before my build is done.

 

[biner626]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

After researching for my build I think I may have a solution to this. The UBR receiver extension is shorter than the AR15 carbine receiver extension. Your buffer is bottoming out in the tube thus short stroking the weapon. What buffer and spring did you use? If it wasn't a Slash modified buffer I'll bet you've found your culprit.

 

[SD26]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Biner626</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The UBR receiver extension is shorter than the AR15 carbine receiver extension. Your buffer is bottoming out in the tube thus short stroking the weapon.</div></div>Is it?

I have a JP captured spring in my LR308 with a UBR. Fits just minty. Didn't have a problem with the LR308 OEM carbine buffer and spring or OEM carbine buffer and Tubb spring.

 

[biner626]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Biner626</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The UBR receiver extension is shorter than the AR15 carbine receiver extension. Your buffer is bottoming out in the tube thus short stroking the weapon.</div></div>Is it?

I have a JP captured spring in my LR308 with a UBR. Fits just minty. Didn't have a problem with the LR308 OEM carbine buffer and spring or OEM carbine buffer and Tubb spring. </div></div>

Yep.

If he put in a AR15 buffer it'll short stroke that puppy. Crap gets confusing doesn't it? We probably need a thread on tried and true receiver ext, spring & buffer combinations.

 

[SD26]

Re: 6.5 Creedmore MATEN Short Stroking

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Biner626</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yep.

If he put in a AR15 buffer it'll short stroke that puppy. Crap gets confusing doesn't it? We probably need a thread on tried and true receiver ext, spring & buffer combinations. </div></div>
I see what you've got there... I don't think a 308 necessarily has a buffer tube that is longer than an AR15 too. I agree.

But it might be important to note the OP...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuickGT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
JP Silent Capture Spring</div></div>
There's no buffer at all. Just the captured spring set up.