Suppressors Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

BigNoise

BigNoise

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 8, 2011
178
1
35
Lower Columbia, OR
#1
For those of you who have gone this route...

Which version should I get? It appears that the 2013 version of the Living Trust program is online, instead of software. Is that a negative? I would prefer to not have my trust information in more places than it needs to be.

Thoughts appreciated.
 
#4
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNoise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So this doesn't have the correct form?

Quicken 2012 </div></div>

I hope it does....that was the software I used for the trust I just made and sent with a Form 1. The title it printed on the top of page 1 was:

[First name][Last name] Revocable Living Trust
 
#8
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

Personally I would recommend using a firearms trust attorney. Yes you can get a quicken trust or even free trusts online. I spoke with my attorney, however, and he recommended I actually not use him. There are a lot of details that need to be put in a firearms trust that if omitted leaves you open. If done properly it is not your basic revocable living trust. A NFA gun trust or asset protection gun trust some call it, can include third parties that can possess and use your class three items without your presence. This comes in handy when your brother or shooting partner wants to borrow your can for a week to go on a trip or something. Plus you can add or remove people at will. An asset protection gun trust is also handled differently than a revocable trust when it comes to taxes. Plus when done correctly, it protects the guns from divorce as well as bankruptcy and creditors. Plus the ATF in the past has granted possession to trusts that were not written up correctly. When brought into question later it was found the possessor was illegally in possession of a class three item even though it was originally approved by the ATF. If all you are wanting to do is bypass the CLEO then a cheap trust will do, but if you are wanting to actually protect your collection (including your non NFA items) spend the extra 300-600 and get it done right. After all, most people on this board aren't the type to go and buy the cheap junk rifles and cans. You don't mind spending the extra money on your collection, so why cheap out on this? Hopefully you also have a separate insurance rider on your collection as well...
 
#9
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

I know it is a good idea to have a trust drafted by a professional and all, but I want to ask some information with all bias aside. Has anyone ever had any issues after "creating" their own trust? I ask this cause I have one that is simply just a gun trust that was drafted, it has no other financial responsibilities, there are other documents that take care of those needs.

To me reading the trust is a very self explanatory document. I know you cannot go wrong having an attorney do this for you but are some people making a bigger deal of it than it actually is? People create wills and other documents all the time using Internet guidance and I haven't heard any issues of malpractice punn intended lol.

Is the industry just out their scaring us into spending money we shouldn't? It's bad enough there is already a "tax" on these items. I should be able to exercise my right to own these items without an attorney doing paperwork for me ( I know the individual way to go doesn't require it so don't flame me please)

But honestly I am not here with a negative opinion about attorneys just begging the question are there actual issues that have existed or has the law made us paranoid? Truly if there is any real hard evidence of when someone created their own trust using this software and used it solely as a trust to hold their NFA items and had issues, I would like to know. I have seen the "In the past NFA has granted....." statement thrown around and I am not saying that its false, its more than likely true, but can we have more details on this? Besides i'm sure there has been some that were drawn up by experts that didn't hold water in the end.

Besides, an attorney more than likely wrote his own NFA trust up at some point and just inserts his/her clients names and adds or subtracts some other titbits based on the clients needs.... essentially what the software does too, granted the software is more generic.

Why this is so difficult is beyond me, CHL's don't take this long for goodness sake and require passing a background check.This should be an easy thing to overcome as long as you are a law abiding citizen and use your firearms responsibly, next thing you know they will start taxing "nightvision" devices because they are "just as deadly".
 
#10
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

oh no...not this shit again!


Someday some jerk is going to be hired on by NFA that is going to decide it's time to do something about all the trusts.

When I showed my friend (an attorney) my quicken will trust I was doing for my soon to be NFA purchases he laughed his ass off.

Basically said it would hold water for about 5min in court.

He actually spent 20hrs at the law library to write my trust. He did it for FREE for me.

He specializes in estate law. He has no interest in doing another one.

There ya go - no biased opinion. Are there actual cases...I don't know...I don't really care.

You guys go ahead and take a short cut and cross you fingers. You may save yourself a few hundred now but if that day ever comes you'll spend thousands maybe tens of thousands.
 
#11
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh no...not this shit again!


Someday some jerk is going to be hired on by NFA that is going to decide it's time to do something about all the trusts.

When I showed my friend (an attorney) my quicken will trust I was doing for my soon to be NFA purchases he laughed his ass off.

Basically said it would hold water for about 5min in court.

He actually spent 20hrs at the law library to write my trust. He did it for FREE for me.

He specializes in estate law. He has no interest in doing another one.

There ya go - no biased opinion. Are there actual cases...I don't know...I don't really care.

You guys go ahead and take a short cut and cross you fingers. You may save yourself a few hundred now but if that day ever comes you'll spend thousands maybe tens of thousands. </div></div>

Making a trust is not some sort of magical voodoo you have to go to law school for. Read the laws of your state and do your homework and you'll be fine. I used a quicken trust and it is completely 100% in line with Virginia law.
 
#12
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nfitton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Plus the ATF in the past has granted possession to trusts that were not written up correctly. When brought into question later it was found the possessor was illegally in possession of a class three item even though it was originally approved by the ATF. </div></div>

PLEASE cite ANY source documenting any instance of this EVER happening in the entire history of the NFA.
I have "HEARD" of it happening one time, and no one faced legal action.

It's the USERS responsibility to make sure the trust is legal in their state, and yes, the ATF will still approve it as long as it's not blatantly incorrect.
Trust Law is not their job.

A Trust, a Corporation or an LLC is not a loophole the ATF needs to look at closing. It's been clearly written as a viable option since its inception.
 
#13
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

[/quote]
A Trust, a Corporation or an LLC is not a loophole the ATF needs to look at closing. It's been clearly written as a viable option since its inception. [/quote]

Amem to that. I didn't even think about that when I originally posted. People create small business's everyday writing their own articles of incorporation/organization, and filing the appropriate paperwork with the state; will the LLC police come and take my business away from me since I created my own instead of paying an attorney?

Again, all we're asking for is some real cases where there was an issue. I am not here bashing anyone but I don't want people to give out information that amounts to "the only way of obtaining a trust correctly is through a lawyer" or "the ATF will revoke yours" if its not accurate. Paying a lawyer would be a great way to go, but for now i'm standing firm on that its NOT the ONLY way to go!
 
#16
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">risk vs reward. the risk far out weighs the reward but no one sees it. </div></div>

Is there a REAL risk though is the question? Or just some fabricated myth to line the pockets of others for something you should be able to do?

Again is there a <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold"></span>"RE</span>AL"</span> risk?
 
#17
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

Nolo is the quicken version from what I ran across when searching around. I know several people who have used the Nolo branded. It seamed fine for what I needed however i will warn you that it doesn't have the ability to make your trust with a cool name ie. (<span style="text-decoration: underline">fill in last name here</span> family arms) the trust will be your name (only a problem when engraving SBR type lower stuff not for suppressors). Also if you want to have several people listed as trustee's you will have a problem with Nolo, or at least I did. In the end, me and my wife are the owners (trustee's) and there are provisions for my young children and and custodian's named to take care of everything if kids are still minors.

I was happy with the way it came out. Very professional looking
(class 3 dealer) looked it over and said it was on par with everything else he had seen. We'll see in a few months when I get my stamp ;-)
 
#18
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

I will be doing the same real soon, trust for NFA class 3 cans. I called BATF and ask if trust was going away he responed that it is being considered and the would remove CLEO rquirement if they stop recoginzing trust or LLC. i ask if i submitt will it still be processed as long as before cut off date he said affirmative. Just my 2 cent guys
 
#19
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quietbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will be doing the same real soon, trust for NFA class 3 cans. I called BATF and ask if trust was going away he responed that it is being considered and the would remove CLEO rquirement if they stop recoginzing trust or LLC. i ask if i submitt will it still be processed as long as before cut off date he said affirmative. Just my 2 cent guys </div></div>

This is really interesting actually! I wonder what kind of provision they will or wont have for multiple users if this happens? I for one have been blessed with a hunting, shooting and fishing loving bride. It is now legal to hunt with suppressors here in Texas and we intend to take our kids hunting with them, what happens if she takes our son hunting one morning if I am not around? This is the downside to an individual and the upside to a trust. Surely they understand we "need" to share these things within reasonable limits with family and friends!

I'll be curious to see how this plays out. I have heard that around here our CLEO's won't sign anyways, that why you have to go the other routes.
 
#20
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

Just take into consideration why you are using a trust. Is it just to bypass local CLEO? If that is the case any trust will do. If you want to actually protect your investment, however, have it done right. While I can't attest to what difference a NFA trust vs a basic trust has done in case study, I can tell you the difference an online legal preparation or software prep does vs a real attorney working for you personally that specializes in what you are paying them for.

Case 1: I have a corporation. I did all of the corp paperwork with a low cost online cooperation filing company. Everything went smoothly and I saved a ton. The Secretary of State accepted it and I did business for years. During my divorce, however, my Ex's attorney tore it apart in minutes and rendered it invalid. Turns out weather it was divorce or some other litigation my corp paperwork, while legally binding, wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

Case 2: One of my customers who HAD a lot of money got married. Before he did he had an attorney make up a prenup. Everything was covered. When they got divorced, however, she took him to the cleaners because of one sentence being misworded. The attorney it turns out specialized in real estate...

If you are going to spend $200 just for a stamp (which if you are like most of us, you will become a stamp collector)... Plus all of the money for the NFA item, is an extra $400 to protect your entire firearm collection properly out of line?

Compare that to your insurance premium you pay yearly for the separate rider you have on the firearms... I pay $550 per year just for insurance on my collection.
 
#21
Re: Quicken Willmaker/Living Trust 2012/2013

here is one way if I remember correctly you could screw yourself from the start.

The TRUST should pay for the can.

The TRUST at least in Wis is invalid until it's funded.

I don't remember all the stuff he told me but there was a lot of little things that could screw you up.

Quit being cheap people!
 
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