Rifle Scopes AR carbine optic logic

[dang472]

I've swapped my EoTech 512 over to my 458 Socom and now I'm looking at various options for CQ and mid range optic setups. I'm a big fan of Vortex and their PST 1-4 and 2.5-10. I see a lot of guys running a 1-4 with an ADM style mount and a 45 degree red dot like a RMR or RZR. What's the purpose of a variable with such a low mag when used with a red dot? It would seem more useful to have the 2.5-10 combined with a CQ optic. If 4x is all that is needed, why not an ACOG 4x with a RMR on top? Another route would be an Eotech magnifier/512 combo.

My main purpose is an optic for my 5.56 carbine to engage targets from 10-300 yards in sort of a Practical Rifle/3 gun format.

 

[SporterII]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

I'm with you.
But, an array with a lot of targets can be seen better with a small dot type. Think peripheral vision.
This is my take. I think this way because I was never smart enough to have it all in my head and am faster and more confidant with Irons, no periphery obstruction like a scope will have. Eotech is the most I have used CQ and I am faster with irons.

 

[dang472]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

The time spent with the EoTech showed me it's a very capable sight for quick engagement of man-sized targets. During my sight-in, I was happy with 100yd and 200yd groups for what it is. I'm not sure I would take an over 200 yard shot on a game animal with it though. I was able to put a hog down with one shot confidence at 100yds. Anyone have experience with the Leupold MR/T 2.5-8x36? Any smaller, lighter scopes in this general magnification range I'm overlooking?

 

[ajwcotton]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

If your looking for something that you can use in 3 gun the new vortex HD II 1-6 fits the bill nicely. It has a daylight useable red dot and on 1x is very similar to a aimpoint and on 6x is a little better than an acog with a similar BDC reticle. This will also keep you in tac optics and not bump you to open like a acog with a reed dot would.

 

[Rob01]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ajwcotton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your looking for something that you can use in 3 gun the new vortex HD II 1-6 fits the bill nicely. It has a daylight useable red dot and on 1x is very similar to a aimpoint and on 6x is a little better than an acog with a similar BDC reticle. This will also keep you in tac optics and not bump you to open like a acog with a reed dot would.</div></div>

+1 I have really come to like a 1-4x optic on my ARs. Dial down and have a dot sight and then dial up to reach farther out.

 

[dang472]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

So basically a 1-4x with an illuminated reticle can be used effectively at 1x as a quick red dot like system. With a magnifier lever like the Vortex Switchview, 4x can be quickly engaged and the optic is used like a standard scope. I've never used these new 1-4s in any practical setting.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dang472</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So basically a 1-4x with an illuminated reticle can be used effectively at 1x as a quick red dot like system. With a magnifier lever like the Vortex Switchview, 4x can be quickly engaged and the optic is used like a standard scope. I've never used these new 1-4s in any practical setting. </div></div>

Correct, or 2x or 3x. Keep in mind, even with a 1-4 you are still looking through a tube, it is not quite as quick to the eye as a standard red dot optic such as a Eotech or Aimpoint which is why many run a red dot next to their 1-4. The 1-4 or 1-6 is the ticket for the AR carbine IMO

Kirk R

 

[Rob01]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

That's about the long and short of it. I don't use a Vortex 1-4 but have a S&B Short Dot with an MGM Switchveiw, which works the same way.

 

[scudzuki]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

I have a Trijicon Accupoint TR24G on an AR carbine.
At 1x it works as well as my Aimpoints or EOTech using the BAC (Bindon Aiming Concept) otherwise known as shooting with both eyes open. The tube is no more noticeable with the TR24G than it is with an Aimpoint Comp M4 or an EOTech 512 in my experience. At 4x the glass is clear and bright and I can shoot 2" groups at 100 yards which I can not do with an EOTech (with or without a 3x magnifier) or an Aimpoint (unmagnified).

Joe

 

[dang472]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

I understand that the 1x on the variable isn't as quick as the red dot because of the whole "looking through a tube" concept. This is why I don't understand the logic of 1-4 instead of a 2-8 or 2.5-10. Team Vortex Jerry Miculek is showing off the Razor 1-6 HD while having the RZR red dot mounted as well. With a street price of probably $1400-$1600 for the 1-6 plus the $300 red dot. Seems like a big investment for a 1x you don't use and only 6x on the high end.

 

[slowkota]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

Thats why I sold my FastFireII that came with my XTR-14... Never used it... The XTR on 1x was plenty fast for me.

I really think the combo is more suited to comp shooters.

 

[Rob01]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dang472</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand that the 1x on the variable isn't as quick as the red dot because of the whole "looking through a tube" concept. This is why I don't understand the logic of 1-4 instead of a 2-8 or 2.5-10. Team Vortex Jerry Miculek is showing off the Razor 1-6 HD while having the RZR red dot mounted as well. With a street price of probably $1400-$1600 for the 1-6 plus the $300 red dot. Seems like a big investment for a 1x you don't use and only 6x on the high end. </div></div>

1-4 or 1-6 have come a ways since older ones and the eye pieces are pretty big and make getting on target pretty fast at 1x.

Jerry might have it set up like that as an advertisement. You just need to figure what division you want to run in 3 gun though as with a 1-6x and a red dot I believe that puts you into open. If you just want to run Tac Optics with the 1-6x then you can't have another optic mounted. Only iron sights with the scope.

 

[dang472]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

Sounds good. I don't have any formal matches planned in my future but it's nice to hear why certain competitors run what they do. I'll probably start off with a PST 1-4 MRAD and can always add a 45 mount and a RMR if I find the scope truly lacking.

 

[SporterII]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

'72, As said there is a lot of industry here and on the coarses.
Hopefully you will discover what works best for you and also hopefully you will get out to some, any competition. It is all good and all fun. Great expreiance.

 

[map_it]

Re: AR carbine optic logic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dang472</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So basically a 1-4x with an illuminated reticle can be used effectively at 1x as a quick red dot like system. With a magnifier lever like the Vortex Switchview, 4x can be quickly engaged and the optic is used like a standard scope. I've never used these new 1-4s in any practical setting. </div></div>

This is what I recently went to on my 6.8 Carbine for whitetail huting. I went with a NF 1-4x24 with a FC2 reticle.

I relaly like the fact for fast moving target on 1x both eyes are open and it is bacially a black 2MOA Dot in the middle of the scope. If precision is needed I align the point of aim with the very top of the 2 MOA dot and you can shoot a 1"-2" group at 100 yards. In low light just fire up the illumiated center dot and the coyotes are toast!

I like it so much for the AR-10 16" Carbine I am thinking about going with a SN4 1.5-6 rather than the fixed 10 power I planned??..

I really like the low magnification for fast targets and hutning applications.

Good Luck with your decison