can someone tell me if there is any difference or what is different between Federal's regular primers and their "match" primers?? I couldn't find anywhere that had CCI in stock so I had no choice but to order the federal regular.. Will I have any issues using these?
Primer differences
- Thread starter LorenaF
- Start date
Re: Primer differences
I have never noticed any appreciable difference between the two. I do use the match primers on most loads, but can't say that I would not use the standard primer in the absence of match primers. I am sure that there will be some pretty varied opinions on this one.
I have never noticed any appreciable difference between the two. I do use the match primers on most loads, but can't say that I would not use the standard primer in the absence of match primers. I am sure that there will be some pretty varied opinions on this one.
Re: Primer differences
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mag primers are for magnum rounds and have a much hotter spark, so unless your shooting a magnum there is no need for them. </div></div>
Or if you're using ball powder, it's usually a good idea to use a magnum primer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mag primers are for magnum rounds and have a much hotter spark, so unless your shooting a magnum there is no need for them. </div></div>
Or if you're using ball powder, it's usually a good idea to use a magnum primer.
Re: Primer differences
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so would using a mag primer cause your load variables to change? </div></div>
Yes, absolutely!
There are articles by German Salazar that stated you want the least powerful primer for most consistent ignition.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so would using a mag primer cause your load variables to change? </div></div>
Yes, absolutely!
There are articles by German Salazar that stated you want the least powerful primer for most consistent ignition.
Re: Primer differences
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can someone tell me if there is any difference or what is different between Federal's regular primers and their "match" primers?? </div></div>
The difference is limited to quality control. Match or benchrest primers are suppossed to exhibit the least variation from primer to primer and so hold to tighter tolerances. This is not to say that regular primers will not meet the same criteria, only that more variation is acceptable. As the manufacturing process matures, refines, and automates, you'll be less likely to experience much deviation. This is one reason why you'll see many people saying they see no difference.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can someone tell me if there is any difference or what is different between Federal's regular primers and their "match" primers?? </div></div>
The difference is limited to quality control. Match or benchrest primers are suppossed to exhibit the least variation from primer to primer and so hold to tighter tolerances. This is not to say that regular primers will not meet the same criteria, only that more variation is acceptable. As the manufacturing process matures, refines, and automates, you'll be less likely to experience much deviation. This is one reason why you'll see many people saying they see no difference.
Re: Primer differences
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so would using a mag primer cause your load variables to change? </div></div>
Yes, absolutely!
There are articles by German Salazar that stated you want the least powerful primer for most consistent ignition. </div></div>
Wow this also seems counter-intuitive, one would think a hotter ignition spark would give a more consistent burn. very interesting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so would using a mag primer cause your load variables to change? </div></div>
Yes, absolutely!
There are articles by German Salazar that stated you want the least powerful primer for most consistent ignition. </div></div>
Wow this also seems counter-intuitive, one would think a hotter ignition spark would give a more consistent burn. very interesting
Re: Primer differences
what is the difference between the ball and rod powders and why would you want the magnum primer to light those?
what is the difference between the ball and rod powders and why would you want the magnum primer to light those?
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Re: Primer differences
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the difference between the ball and rod powders and why would you want the magnum primer to light those? </div></div>
Usually, and I say usually, ball powders are pistol or faster burning rifle powders. Bigger rod, slower the burn rate.
But H US-869 is the second slowest powder, and it is ball powder.
Have you purchased a manual yet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the difference between the ball and rod powders and why would you want the magnum primer to light those? </div></div>
Usually, and I say usually, ball powders are pistol or faster burning rifle powders. Bigger rod, slower the burn rate.
But H US-869 is the second slowest powder, and it is ball powder.
Have you purchased a manual yet?
Re: Primer differences
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the difference between the ball and rod powders and why would you want the magnum primer to light those? </div></div>
Ball powders are supposedly more difficult to ignite, especially in cold weather and with large cartridges. The greater spark in the magnum primer allows more reliable ignition.
A while ago I recommended to a buddy to use Wolf primers for his precision LR loads, I didn't ask what type of powder he was using and just assumed stick due to the application. He came back complaining of dud primers and showed me the strange-looking, greenish, half ignited powder that he pulled from the bad rounds. I immediately noticed the problem - ball powder! I don't think it was cold out, middle of summer or something.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LorenaF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the difference between the ball and rod powders and why would you want the magnum primer to light those? </div></div>
Ball powders are supposedly more difficult to ignite, especially in cold weather and with large cartridges. The greater spark in the magnum primer allows more reliable ignition.
A while ago I recommended to a buddy to use Wolf primers for his precision LR loads, I didn't ask what type of powder he was using and just assumed stick due to the application. He came back complaining of dud primers and showed me the strange-looking, greenish, half ignited powder that he pulled from the bad rounds. I immediately noticed the problem - ball powder! I don't think it was cold out, middle of summer or something.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Re: Primer differences
Sorry i didn't answer your question all the way.
Win recommends a mag primer with their 748 ball powder, for ignition, what I use in .223.
Hodgdon recommends mag primer with their H-335 ball powder.
That is all I know.
I do know people who use these two powders without mag primers, and I've never witnessed an ignition problem, even at 10 deg above.
Sorry i didn't answer your question all the way.
Win recommends a mag primer with their 748 ball powder, for ignition, what I use in .223.
Hodgdon recommends mag primer with their H-335 ball powder.
That is all I know.
I do know people who use these two powders without mag primers, and I've never witnessed an ignition problem, even at 10 deg above.
Re: Primer differences
No I haven't got my manual yet. I just fininshed ordering all my hardware less the shell holders
No I haven't got my manual yet. I just fininshed ordering all my hardware less the shell holders
Re: Primer differences
I am going to go with the Varget powder and standard Federal primers, I would have gone with CCI but everywhere is backordered on those
I am going to go with the Varget powder and standard Federal primers, I would have gone with CCI but everywhere is backordered on those
Re: Primer differences
Another question. What about using "Palma" cases? I keep reading smaller primers may give better accuracy.
Another question. What about using "Palma" cases? I keep reading smaller primers may give better accuracy.
Re: Primer differences
The small primer pocket in Palma brass tend not to loosen up as quick as large rifle primer pockets.Palma Brass is popular with wild cat cartridge like the 6.5 Super.
For 308 I do not see much of an advantage unless you are using really hot loads.Than the Small Rifle primer pocket will hold up better.
Regards,Mike
The small primer pocket in Palma brass tend not to loosen up as quick as large rifle primer pockets.Palma Brass is popular with wild cat cartridge like the 6.5 Super.
For 308 I do not see much of an advantage unless you are using really hot loads.Than the Small Rifle primer pocket will hold up better.
Regards,Mike
Re: Primer differences
well it must not be as popular since everywhere I have looked that the standard Lapua was sold out they still had the palma in stock
well it must not be as popular since everywhere I have looked that the standard Lapua was sold out they still had the palma in stock
Re: Primer differences
Don't use a magnum primer unless you are using a really slow burning powder, like H1000 or slower, unless the powder manufacturer recommends a match primer. Here is a link to powder burn rates.
I have read several people that have tried out magnum primers on powders such as H4350 and H4831 (a slower powder, but not slow) and that they needed to reduce the charge weight by about a grain and that the velocity spread was more varied; hence better results with a standard primer.
I have tried out CCI BR2 and CCI 200 primers and I haven't noted too much of a difference. Perhaps I have 5, maybe 10 fps less variation in a group of 10 shots I run through a chrono ... really not enough data for me to tell.
I wouldn't recommend palma brass. If you can't get your hands on any lapua brass, which I find hard to believe for a .308, then just get yourself some winchester brass. It works just fine and I get way better than 1/2 MOA with both of my .308s using it.
Don't use a magnum primer unless you are using a really slow burning powder, like H1000 or slower, unless the powder manufacturer recommends a match primer. Here is a link to powder burn rates.
I have read several people that have tried out magnum primers on powders such as H4350 and H4831 (a slower powder, but not slow) and that they needed to reduce the charge weight by about a grain and that the velocity spread was more varied; hence better results with a standard primer.
I have tried out CCI BR2 and CCI 200 primers and I haven't noted too much of a difference. Perhaps I have 5, maybe 10 fps less variation in a group of 10 shots I run through a chrono ... really not enough data for me to tell.
I wouldn't recommend palma brass. If you can't get your hands on any lapua brass, which I find hard to believe for a .308, then just get yourself some winchester brass. It works just fine and I get way better than 1/2 MOA with both of my .308s using it.
Re: Primer differences
Primer Report from WSTIAC Journal
See the above link for our paper quantifying primer performance. Our main emphasis is comparing the consistency of lead-based and lead free primers, but the data also shows that match primers tend to have smaller variations than regular primers, and also gives a feel for the difference between magnum and non-magnum primers as well as the different power of large and small primers.
Primer Report from WSTIAC Journal
See the above link for our paper quantifying primer performance. Our main emphasis is comparing the consistency of lead-based and lead free primers, but the data also shows that match primers tend to have smaller variations than regular primers, and also gives a feel for the difference between magnum and non-magnum primers as well as the different power of large and small primers.
