Rifle Scopes SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

[pcweidman]

Ok guys need some advice. I think I know what to do but want to confirm. So I just got my AICS 300wm finished, mounted my optic, then went to the range to sight in. So let me preface by say I dont need any shit by anyone on here for the optic I have mounted on this gun because it is EXTREMELY temporary and would not be on this gun if I had not maxed my budget building the gun. However I find this a chance to learn something as well.

SO i could not get my AICS 300wm even on paper at 100 yards with my Countersniper 3-25x56. It is mounted with high NF rings and a flat Stiller rail to the Stiller Tac300 action. I cranked the elevation all the way to the basement and still about 16 inches high. So I used the mildots to estimate a negative hold over to get to the center of the target and it worked. So in order to hit paper at 100yrds I put the target on the x axis where the main crosshair turns from thin to fat and they basically have a an upside down chevron. IT IS REDICULOUS!!

So what I was thinking is a a 20/30/40 MOA rail mount that obviosly tips down toward the barrel. I plan on buying a new NF or Vortex.

I was planning on goin with some positive moa mount on top for some sort of forward tilt to help compensate for to few MOA adiustment on my optic. Any ideas?

 

[dcjs]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pcweidman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So let me preface by say I dont need any shit by anyone on here for the optic I have mounted on this gun...</div></div>
This is so not going to work...

 

[BobD]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

Adding a rail (with moa incline) will raise you elevation higher. Remember, the lower your reticle is the higher you have to raise the muzzle. Reticle down = impact up. Same principal with lowering your front sight post on irons.

Your situation is backwards... Is the horizontal portion of your reticle already below optical center (ie. incline built in)? I don't have any knowledge of CS scopes (only the negative info on here... Really bad). Some reticles by design are centered lower for long range use. You can try to use higher rings or flip/invert an incline base if you plan to purchase for whatever your replacing this with. However, if it has limited travel you will be losing the ability to dial back up (possibly causing more issues). Also, bottomed out you will be degrading the sight picture you have and losing windage adjustment.

If you're intent on making this work... You need to raise the objective end of your scope. Higher rings may help, but you're messing with eye placement and changing your cheek weld. If you don't plan on buying an incline base for your new scope anyway I would suggest you're throwing money in the wrong place. I've never had to do this; if I were in your shoes I would return it. If its not designed to have the reticle lower it sounds like the lens was not bedded properly. I guess with their reputation it could be any number of problems.

Sorry to hear about the situation. The inherent issues with CS scopes and their egregious lack of quality control have developed the worst reputation. I hope you're able to obtain your replacement before this one causes further issue.

Good luck-

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

Just throwing this out there,

You stated that you dialed the elevation all the way to the basement and you’re still high.

What did you do in this process?
Did you dial your turret all the way in the down rotation as marked on the scope or did you by chance reach up and dial your turret while watching your reticle go down as you were looking through the scope.

Just asking, because if you did the second option you actually dialed your scope up for shooting maximum distances.

The reticle ends up in the top of the scope for your close up ranges and zero.


oneshot

 

[pcweidman]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

Lets make this clear I didnt spend money on this optic! hahaha I won it from a guy in a shootout cause I needed an optic for a little 308 I deer hunt inside 200yds with. It works and has worked flawlessly for 3 years. I ran out of money and wanted to simply use my new gun.


If I knew how to post a pic I would.

First I dont understand how canting the rear of the optic up using say a 20 moa rail wont push the POI down and gain me that much travel on my scope elevation. It seems like basic geometry to me. I was with 2 Iraq war vet marines and a buddy who is also a pretty smart guy and avid shooter with me for over 5 years. We discussed lowering the rings because there is about a 1/4 of any inch from the bottom of the scope front bell to the top of the barrel to lower the optic in whole. The optic was just on an SPS that i use to like I say hunt close ranges and plink. However I dont want to lower the rings because the ergonomics of the gun work perfectly for me right now.

I realize the optic is the most frowned upon thing in the history of this site but it was free and has worked perfectly for my 308 and I just cant logically figure out why my 300 would be so different. I will be replacing it but for now I want the damn thing to shoot. I just dont get it.

How do you add a pic and ill show you guys the set up.

 

[insight3b]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

You have to upload a pic to a site like photobucket then post the img code.

 

[pcweidman]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

Ok here is the set up

http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u597/pcweidman/get-attachmentaspx_zps91406809.jpg

This is the product I was considering to fix the problem

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/357181/...ng-action-matte

 

[Rhenerie]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pcweidman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
First I dont understand how canting the rear of the optic up using say a 20 moa rail wont push the POI down and gain me that much travel on my scope elevation. It seems like basic geometry to me. </div></div>

Adding an angled base most definitly will make your impact HIGHER on paper.

picture time

 

[Lucks]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pcweidman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
First I dont understand how canting the rear of the optic up using say a 20 moa rail wont push the POI down and gain me that much travel on my scope elevation. It seems like basic geometry to me. I was with 2 Iraq war vet marines and a buddy who is also a pretty smart guy and avid shooter with me for over 5 years. </div></div>

Think of it this way maybe...
It doesn't lower Point of Impact it lowers your (reticle) crosshairs. What I mean is when you raise the rear of the scope (like a 20 MOA rail) the point of aim in the center of the reticle is lowered. As a result of this when you look through your scope to aim you'll then have to raise the crosshairs to get on target, which will make you impact even higher in your case.

Lowering your rings won't help in your situation either.

The problem is in your scope adjustment. Since the scope worked on a previous rifle you might check to make sure you don't have your scope rings torqued down too tight were it's binding up the internal adjustments of the scope.

 

[pcweidman]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

Ok cool thanks for the graphic that says a lot. So what do I do! CS or not should i have to basement the elevation just to get the projectile down low enough? Im not getting this for some reason.

 

[pcweidman]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

http://www.countersniperoptics.com/specs/58.pdf

Here are the specs and it looks like 80 MOA of adjustment is that what yall are seeing?

Ill check the binding aspect adam but I think im good. I guess ill just have to find a way to get a NF, Vortex, or Leupold on there. I am so tapped after the gun though.

What do you guys think of the setup. Does it look right?

 

[ORD]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

Everyone else has already ably explained the function/workings of a canted scope base and the reasons that it won't fix your problems as you've indicated...SO...

I'll just say what EVERYONE ELSE is thinking...YOUR SCOPE SH!T THE BED!!

If, assuming for the sake of argument, your scope has the original, published amount of internal adjustment as indicated in its specs (80MOA total)...there is NO reason that you should not be able to get zeroed at 100m with a flat base on any 300WM. You have roughly 40MOA up and 40MOA down in elevation adjustment from the scope's mechanical zero. That is an INSANE amount of adjustment in a single direction in terms of getting a 100yd zero on a .300WM. Therefore, assuming all things are equal, I return to the premise that YOUR SCOPE SH!T THE BED!

Don't go monkeying around with CS at Countersucker trying to get the scope fixed/replaced. Furthermore, don't go trying to fix a problem with a garbage scope (yes, yes...we all know your 3yrs of experience with it) by swapping out your scope base or otherwise screwing with the rifle. Put the money you'll otherwise be wasting toward your new glass and be done with it. If you plan on getting into extended ranges with the rifle, then by all means purchase an appropriate canted base which will allow you to take better advantage of your new optic's internal adjustments at extended ranges. If not...depending on the optic you end up with and the ranges you plan on shooting...the flat Stiller base should work just fine.

 

[jaydoski]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

We just had someone have the same problem as you about a week ago. It's probably on the 2nd or 3rd page.

That being said your scope is a POS. If you really want to get it to work use lower rings or get a -20 moa base lol.

Do the right thing: throw that POS away and save yourself the trouble.

 

[Three Guns]

Re: SEVERE Elevation Problem: Getting my Zero

I "buddy" had a similar issue with another brand of scope. When "he" got it mounted on his rifle it was hitting about 20 inches high at 100 yds. Upon closer inspection the zero stops had been set something like a 500 yd zero. After I changed the zero stops back to something reasonable it worked fine.

I do not know if the CS has zero stops or not, but I would check that as well.

Good luck.

Tom