45 acp powder

#10
i would recommend Win 231 as its been a killer powder for my .45 for years. EXCEPT its becoming a bitch for me to find it with all this anti gun horse shit. so stay away from it so i can get mine! lol
 
#22
joemusso said:
who ever is using titegroup would you mind posting your load data for 9mm,.45

thank you
joe
Click to expand...

I can tell you what I use, but I really don't have chrono or anything like that, and can't show you target pics. I am happy if they cycle well, and I can get vast majority of them in a 4" group at 25yds...
.45ACP 230gr Hornady HAP #651611, 4.8gr Titegroup, a mix of brass (range pick up. I'm not good enough to know the difference when shooting---I don't do competition.) Winchester Large Pistol Primers
9mm 125gr Hornady HAP #355721 4.2gr TiteGroup, mix of brass (same as above.) Federal Small Pistol Primers
These feed very well in most of my guns---Para 14-45, Stoeger Cougar 9mm, Astra A-100 (45).

My Beretta PX-4 9mm feeds well in shooting. I think the ejector spring may be too strong, (still breaking in) as sometimes when racking the slide for first shot from holster, the round jams partway into the chamber. If you let the slide go fast, like in actual shooting, I don't get problems with the Beretta either. I think that is the gun, not the ammo. The ejector looked like it was contoured backwards compared to my other guns, and the spring is stiff, not letting the case head up behind it very well. I did a little filing on it, and it did improve, so I am pretty sure it is the gun.
 
#24
joemusso said:
who ever is using titegroup would you mind posting your load data for 9mm,.45

thank you
joe
Click to expand...

45:

230gr Montana Gold, 5.25gr TG @ ~900fps
200gr MG, 5.75gr TG @ ~1025
185gr MG, 6.1gr TG @ ~1100fps

Watch it. Those are pretty stout. They're for a Glock 21C, and I had to up all my charges for that pistol to cycle reliably. They also run in my Glock 30 nicely.

9mm:

124gr Montana Gold, 5.0gr TG
 
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#25
Sniper Uncle said:
I can tell you what I use, but I really don't have chrono or anything like that, and can't show you target pics. I am happy if they cycle well, and I can get vast majority of them in a 4" group at 25yds...
.45ACP 230gr Hornady HAP #651611, 4.8gr Titegroup, a mix of brass (range pick up. I'm not good enough to know the difference when shooting---I don't do competition.) Winchester Large Pistol Primers
9mm 125gr Hornady HAP #355721 4.2gr TiteGroup, mix of brass (same as above.) Federal Small Pistol Primers
These feed very well in most of my guns---Para 14-45, Stoeger Cougar 9mm, Astra A-100 (45).

My Beretta PX-4 9mm feeds well in shooting. I think the ejector spring may be too strong, (still breaking in) as sometimes when racking the slide for first shot from holster, the round jams partway into the chamber. If you let the slide go fast, like in actual shooting, I don't get problems with the Beretta either. I think that is the gun, not the ammo. The ejector looked like it was contoured backwards compared to my other guns, and the spring is stiff, not letting the case head up behind it very well. I did a little filing on it, and it did improve, so I am pretty sure it is the gun.
Click to expand...

thank you Sniper uncle i use 230 gr .45 as well but i use 115 gr 9MM ill just lighten the load a bit to 4.0 gr
 
#26
turbo54 said:
45:

230gr Montana Gold, 5.25gr TG @ ~900fps
200gr MG, 5.75gr TG @ ~1025
185gr MG, 6.1gr TG @ ~1100fps

Watch it. Those are pretty stout. They're for a Glock 21C, and I had to up all my charges for that pistol to cycle reliably. They also run in my Glock 30 nicely.

9mm:

124gr Montana Gold, 5.0gr TG
Click to expand...

Thank you turbo54
 
#33
VV 310,350 bullseye AA7 thats all i use for any of pistol load on my 45 i prefer n350 simply cleaner for my revolver bullseye coz i never shoot as mush as my auto(cleaning purposes) accuracy/ more than i need
 
#37
turbo54 said:
45:

230gr Montana Gold, 5.25gr TG @ ~900fps
200gr MG, 5.75gr TG @ ~1025
185gr MG, 6.1gr TG @ ~1100fps


Watch it. Those are pretty stout. They're for a Glock 21C, and I had to up all my charges for that pistol to cycle reliably. They also run in my Glock 30 nicely.

9mm:

124gr Montana Gold, 5.0gr TG
Click to expand...

Turbo, do you know why HAP's would use so much less powder than your MT Gold's of the same weight?
 
#39
Sniper Uncle said:
Turbo, do you know why HAP's would use so much less powder than your MT Gold's of the same weight?
Click to expand...

Several reasons, probably:

No published load data for MG bullets, so I worked up.
I like to practice with full power loads
I "worked up" Loads for my G30 by watching primers and by feel of recoil.
I shot at least 10k of the 200gr load before I got my G21C
They wouldn't cycle the 21c reliably, so I worked up more!
 
#40
turbo54 said:
Several reasons, probably:

No published load data for MG bullets, so I worked up.
I like to practice with full power loads
I "worked up" Loads for my G30 by watching primers and by feel of recoil.
I shot at least 10k of the 200gr load before I got my G21C
They wouldn't cycle the 21c reliably, so I worked up more!
Click to expand...

Thank you. I also am a firm believer in using the exact same recipe for practice as for the real thing. This brings me to my next question. ( I hope you don't come to hate me for asking to many questions)
You said "watching primers and by feel of recoil" for your work ups. I understand the primer watching, how do you gauge the feel of recoil? Is this just from a lot (like really a lot) of practice?, or does it start to "snap" differently in your hands?, or are you comparing the recoil feel of one gun to another with the "same" weight and type of action---say a Springfield 1911 v. a Kimber 1911....? Were your velocities above from a chronograph, because they seemed similar to mine from QuickLoad---I haven't chrony'd any handgun stuff yet.
I am trying to learn all that I can here, and obviously you have a rather large store of knowledge which I am grateful that you are sharing some of with us.
 
#42
Sniper Uncle said:
You said "watching primers and by feel of recoil" for your work ups. I understand the primer watching, how do you gauge the feel of recoil? Is this just from a lot (like really a lot) of practice?, or does it start to "snap" differently in your hands?, or are you comparing the recoil feel of one gun to another with the "same" weight and type of action---say a Springfield 1911 v. a Kimber 1911....? Were your velocities above from a chronograph, because they seemed similar to mine from QuickLoad---I haven't chrony'd any handgun stuff yet.
Click to expand...

When I said I got where I did by feel, yes, I'm saying I thought I had a good enough "feel" for what reasonable recoil would be like.

In reality, this was stupid of me! In my post above I wasn't trying to come off as if I'm just "so good" I can simply feel when the load is right!

I think there is *some* merit to the "feel" of a load with handguns, but ONLY with a given powder/bullet combination.

Example:

When I got a 10mm, I wanted to load "full power" ammo for it, and I read all over the place that Blue Dot is the powder to do it. I made up a bunch of test ammo ranging from 9.5gr up to 12.5gr of it along with a 180gr JHP. By the time I got up to 12gr, the report, recoil and blast were SIGNIFICANT, and without a chrono, I figured I had some serious velocity going on.

But a [knowledgable] fellow at the gunclub saw what I was up to and asked me what powder I was using. He scoffed that I wasn't using 800X. He gave me some tips on using the 800x so I bought some and tried it, ranging from 8.5gr up to 11.5gr. About this time I also got a chrono.

The difference in recoil, report and blast between a 180 @ 1200fps via blue dot vs. 800x is huge. The Blue Dot makes a big show of it and the 800x goes "pop". My point is that simply by feel, most anyone would have thought the Blue Dot was much more powerful than the 800X, when in fact the powder is just too slow, and it is mostly burning after the bullet is out of the barrel, creating a lot of flash, report, and what I call "jet propulsion recoil", which is different than what I call "conservation of momentum recoil". I don't claim that I can simply feel the difference between the two.

Back on topic: After I got the chrono and checked the speeds of my 45 with the 200gr MG and the TG, they were pretty inline with what you'd expect. I ran many thousands through the G30 that way. I think I was at ~5.3 or 5.4gr. Then I got the G21C, and it just wouldn't cycle that load. If I allowed my left thumb to drag on the slide *at all* it would stovepipe. So I randomly increased charge to 5.75 and tried that - problem solved.
 
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#45
turbo54 said:
When I said I got where I did by feel, yes, I'm saying I thought I had a good enough "feel" for what reasonable recoil would be like.

In reality, this was stupid of me! In my post above I wasn't trying to come off as if I'm just "so good" I can simply feel when the load is right!

I think there is *some* merit to the "feel" of a load with handguns, but ONLY with a given powder/bullet combination.

Turbo, don't be too hard on yourself. I know what you were trying to say, and I wasn't trying to call you out on it or make you feel bad. I was just asking for clarity---probably should have done it in a PM. Anyway, I did get what you were saying. When you have been using say 5.4gr TiteGroup behind a 230gr projectile in a certain gun, and you shoot enough, you know exactly what it "feels" like. Then, if you added more powder, say another .2gr, and you shot and wow did it really kick!, you would know that you were getting up in pressure...especially if the casings showed massive flattening of primers, (and I would expect possibly more damage to the casing from rough handling during ejection?).
It is interesting to note what you said about the BlueDot---an presumably other powders--- that can really have feel and sound but "no" substance. I would bet the converse is also true, there are probably some powders which sound an feel mild but are really "wallopers."
Please do remember, none of my questions are in any way to trip you up, or show you up, for I am sure you have forgotten much more than I'll ever know---(but, I will keep learning as much as I can, so maybe someday I'll know how little I really know!).
Click to expand...
 
#46
Sniper Uncle said:
Turbo, don't be too hard on yourself. I know what you were trying to say, and I wasn't trying to call you out on it or make you feel bad. I was just asking for clarity---probably should have done it in a PM.
Click to expand...

No, it was good of you to shine some light on my statement. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

The way I wrote my original post, at best I would seem arrogant, thinking I was capable of working up a load by "feel". At worst someone else would try it and break something or hurt themselves.
 
#47
RGeyer said:
Titegroup first, then 231/HP-38. Titegroup gives you a lower charge weight. The way i see it, max charge on 230gr. FMJ's with Titegroup every 10th round is free.
Click to expand...

That is one reason why I am switching most of my handguns to TiteGroup. I am not a target/competition shooter, and can't tell the difference between my Para 14-45 and say a Christiansen for three times the price, so TiteGroup is getting the hits in/near the bull at 25yards that I want to see, and less powder/load-with similar results, equals more shooting for the same price.
 
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