1MOA Rifle, Mil/Mil scope.

[Janus4088]

Anyone else find it funny that most precision shooters nowadays use Mil/Mil scopes, but we still judge rifle accuracy on the basis of MOA?

I understand that it is easier to say you have a 1MOA rifle (or 1/2MOA or 1/4MOA) vs saying 0.29mil rifle (or 0.145mil or 0.0725mil). I was just thinking about it as someone that came into this hobby/way of life/savings killer recently in the past few years and has never owned or a shot an MOA/MOA scope, let alone a MOA/Mil optic. So really, I have never used minutes of angle, and yet that is the yardstick by which everyone judges their rifle.

I understand it might be carry over from an old system, and hell some guys still use MOA/MOA optics, I think it is just going to be interesting to see if it carries on for a few decades, while MOA scopes get phased out, will new shooters be asking wtf does 'MOA' stand for, and why is that the measurement of rifle precision?

Dont get me wrong, I am not going to start saying I have a 0.145mil rifle, 'half MOA' is so much simpler, it just got me thinking.

 

[Aasgard]

My guess is MOA will be around for a long time. One inch at 100 yards is just too dang easy.

 

[PKT1106]

Is it gonna make you feel old when younger shooters ask "WTF is MOA"?

It's easier to use inches because that is what everyone is used to. Its a very quick and easy reference for people not familiar with accuracy and repeatability.

 

[darkarcher]

I like to say I shoot a MOA, but the the 3.6" Mil is closer to the truth. Just think how much easier it would be to hold yourself to the 1 mil shooting rifle. We would not have to spend so much on rifles. My stock 10-22 shoots about a mil. We need to change it over. And, I do like waffles.

 

[garandman]

Waffles. And bacon.

 

[oldfatguy]

My guess is MOA will be around for a long time. One inch at 100 yards is just too dang easy.

Well, not exactly. One MOAP is 1.047" at 100 yds.

OFG

 

[Niles Coyote]

I want to be a 1/10 mil shooter...

 

[jordan0317]

I love waffles, with powdered sugar and some chicken strips

 

[Janus4088]

I like to say I shoot a MOA, but the the 3.6" Mil is closer to the truth. Just think how much easier it would be to hold yourself to the 1 mil shooting rifle. We would not have to spend so much on rifles. My stock 10-22 shoots about a mil. We need to change it over. And, I do like waffles.

I am not saying we need to go from 1MOA to 1Mil being the standard, but if we were to keep the same 1" @ 100yards benchmark, converting that to mils is a PITA because its all decimal. Although I suppose .1-.2 mil being roughly 1/2MOA and .1 or under being roughly 1/4MOA we could go with that. I know this is splitting hairs at this point, it was just a late night musing by someone forming ideas during a graveyard shift. Something that should not be advised.

And I had chicken and waffles for the first time last month. My friends came over for dinner, and had been laughing about the idea because it really seems ludicrous, but by unanimous decision it is F'ing great.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Some pretty interesting results to your poll, Janus. I personally, not having had the privilege of serving in the Military, have really only worked with MOA. I find it quite easy to work with, so I'll just keep doing it. It would however, be easier to strive for 1 Mil, ad darkarcher says......food for thought as I eat my waffles with pure Mew England Maple Syrup, and some breakfast sausage made of bear and venison.....quite tasty!

 

[roggom]

It is a matter of ease and in reality everyone should know what you are talking about. Half minute or half moa is pretty clear, much like 7 oclock vs 1900. I already know that 1900 is 7pm and do not have to do the math in my head, some others might not.

As for waffles I dont make them at home, the irony is the Waffle House has nasty waffles, they look and taste like eggos. Some of the mom and pop places near me make some very nice Belgian waffles with all the toppings, gonna need a insulin shot afterwards.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Waffles and scrapple.

I think MOA will be around for a long time as the military uses MOA, so it's mil spec and everyone loves mil spec. The Army uses MOA knobs and Mil reticle.

 

[Janus4088]

I personally, not having had the privilege of serving in the Military, have really only worked with MOA.

Mil doesn't stand for military, but miliradian, or one thousandth of a radian, which is why some people consider mil to be metric, or metric-esq. And that is not because it has anything to do with metric measurements themselves, but rather that it subtends 1/1,000th. 1m at 1,000m.

 

[Aasgard]

Mil doesn't stand for military, but miliradian, or one thousandth of a radian, which is why some people consider mil to be metric, or metric-esq. And that is not because it has anything to do with metric measurements themselves, but rather that it subtends 1/1,000th. 1m at 1,000m.

See. Isn't' an inch at a 100 yards easier than that? I shoot in mils, but never think in mils unless I'm looking through a mil reticle. How many leathermans have a mil scale to let you measure a group. I can approximate MOA visually with simple math and measure it with about 5 different things in my truck. Mils not so much.

 

[M24_SWS]

I love waffles with syrup. I can't see how eating chicken and waffles with syrup is tasty although i have never tried it lol.

 

[RobG]

I too love waffles. Make my own from scratch as well as the syrup. That and some brown sugar bacon baked in the oven. Add in a hot cup of strong coffee and you are ready to tackle that age old question; "MIL vs. MOA."

And BTW, chicken and waffles is unfreakinbeleiveable.

 

[backyardsniper]

I think the mil/mil craze will phase out eventually. I use moa/moa but can use mil moa if I have too. That is what we used in the military. Just my .02

 

[Janus4088]

I love waffles with syrup. I can't see how eating chicken and waffles with syrup is tasty although i have never tried it lol.

You are doing your stomach a great disservice.

 

[Early Cuyler]

food for thought as I eat my waffles with pure Mew England Maple Syrup, and some breakfast sausage made of bear and venison.....quite tasty!

I grew four more chest hairs just readin that.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Mil doesn't stand for military, but miliradian, or one thousandth of a radian, which is why some people consider mil to be metric, or metric-esq. And that is not because it has anything to do with metric measurements themselves, but rather that it subtends 1/1,000th. 1m at 1,000m.

Thank you, I know what mils are. I just haven't worked with them. Many people who really prefer them seem to have military backgrounds. I am also aware the the mil-dot reticle is used widely in the military.

 

[Aasgard]

I think the mil/mil craze will phase out eventually. I use moa/moa but can use mil moa if I have too. That is what we used in the military. Just my .02

MOA/MOA? MIL/MIL? If you aren't part of a larger system or spotting for others, just pick one. Learn it. Use it. Hit what you're aiming at.

MIL/MOA is for people that like to do math.

 

[backyardsniper]

yeah mil/moa does suck. I just don't like the mil/mil because I've used moa for a long time and I just naturally think that way. I bought A MIL/MIL scope and put it on my AR. Shot it the other day. I took a couple shots at 400 and came in about 4" low and I thought "yeah about a minute should do" then I looked down at the knobs on my scope and went "Damn it" what is that in mils. I then had to do some converting and such which is no problem at the range but in a hunting situation It would cost me too much time to figure it where as MOA is just second nature to me. However if you been doing mil/mil all along then it would come as second nature. So like he said whatever you like, just go with it

 

[den42]

I love waffles, with powdered sugar and some chicken strips

crap!!! now im hungry...

 

[B3dlam]

As long as your reticle and turrets match be it mil/mil or moa/moa it doesnt matter just use whatever you prefer. Personally I use mil/mil on all my scopes.

 

[rpk762]

Learn what you have and you will be fine. I like the finer adjustment of MOA as I only do long range hunting.

I like my waffles with strawberries. Homemade only for me.

 

[OneShotJim]

 

[lash]

Great poll results. To be expected from this crowd, lol.

mRad = mil, not military...

 

[whycanti]

People generally measure their groups with a caliper, tape measure or ruler of some kind. To my knowledge they dont make any of those measuring devices in mils. It is much easier to not have to do the extra math. Example, group size measures 1.00", then you subtract the bullet diameter .308 for example and come up with .692". Well then that is not quite internet worthy so you need to subtract the bullet diameter again .384". Now your getting somewhere but everyone has groups smaller than that so you still have to subtract a few hundredths or even a tenth or two. After all that then you would still have to do the conversion to mils which involves math that is much too advanced for many of us.

 

[lash]

People generally measure their groups with a caliper, tape measure or ruler of some kind. To my knowledge they dont make any of those measuring devices in mils. It is much easier to not have to do the extra math. Example, group size measures 1.00", then you subtract the bullet diameter .308 for example and come up with .692". Well then that is not quite internet worthy so you need to subtract the bullet diameter again .384". Now your getting somewhere but everyone has groups smaller than that so you still have to subtract a few hundredths or even a tenth or two. After all that then you would still have to do the conversion to mils which involves math that is much too advanced for many of us.

Too true!! That's funny , but probably more true than not. That made my morning, but then I'm easily amused.

 

[Tonmarchelli]

What's with the waffles???

 

[Sniper Uncle]

What's with the waffles???

What???!!! You are "ANTI-WAFFLES"?????? How could you hate them so much???!!!!

 

[Tonmarchelli]

I love waffles. Just confused how they came into a conversation regarding measuring group sizes

 

[lash]

Now you are waffling on us. Do you or do you not like waffles? Just answer the question!

Will your group size fit on a waffle if measured in mRads?

 

[OptedOut]

"Anyone else find it funny that most precision shooters nowadays use Mil/Mil scopes"

I think you're statements funny! At all the long range precision matches I've attended last and this year most participants use MOA based scopes with 1/8 MOA adjustments.