Sidearms & Scatterguns New S&W J Frame 642 Trigger/Action Job
- Thread starter map_it
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There are two options, send it out or do it yourself. When I say do it yourself I'm not talking about taking it apart and honeing here and there. I'm talking about hours upon hours of dry firing. I did that to my 642, either I smoothed our the action or built up strenght in my trigger finger I don't know. I'd say it was a combination of both, anyway the action on my 642 is as smooth as a prom queens thighs.
Second option, is Clark Custom Guns, Jerry Miculek does custom S&W trigger work there. They have two versions, on for competition, one for duty/SD. I'd pick the latter, you want the revolver to fire every time you pull the trigger on any primer, you don't want a self defense (and that's what a 642 is) to be dependent on using the thinner jacket Federal Primers.
Probably the best scenario would be to send it to Clark, then complete the process with the first option, that being dry fire the crap out of it. I like the CT Laser sight on my 642. Watching that little red dot bouncing around on the dry fire target does wonders for your trigger control which is critical in a little bitty short barreled revolver.
Second option, is Clark Custom Guns, Jerry Miculek does custom S&W trigger work there. They have two versions, on for competition, one for duty/SD. I'd pick the latter, you want the revolver to fire every time you pull the trigger on any primer, you don't want a self defense (and that's what a 642 is) to be dependent on using the thinner jacket Federal Primers.
Probably the best scenario would be to send it to Clark, then complete the process with the first option, that being dry fire the crap out of it. I like the CT Laser sight on my 642. Watching that little red dot bouncing around on the dry fire target does wonders for your trigger control which is critical in a little bitty short barreled revolver.
Map,
I do not really know what your goals are as you do not state them. That revolver does one thing well and it requires little more than use to do THAT better.
Unless you are simply not going to be able to relax until you spend enough $$$$ to feel comfortable that somebody else has told you that THEY are done working on your pistol and you can now relax, well, keep reading.
I have gone in all three directions:
1. No custom work, but enormous amounts of use (dry and live) as stated by others.
2. Spent money having somebody else run through a pistol. Dubious for this kind of short range defensive revolver...and only worth the money if you can describe to them what you do NOT like about what you have.
3. Bought, as other have mentioned, for about $25 an APEX kit.
Start with #3.
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html
Then do #1.
Any specific problems after that.....#2.
I do not really know what your goals are as you do not state them. That revolver does one thing well and it requires little more than use to do THAT better.
Unless you are simply not going to be able to relax until you spend enough $$$$ to feel comfortable that somebody else has told you that THEY are done working on your pistol and you can now relax, well, keep reading.
I have gone in all three directions:
1. No custom work, but enormous amounts of use (dry and live) as stated by others.
2. Spent money having somebody else run through a pistol. Dubious for this kind of short range defensive revolver...and only worth the money if you can describe to them what you do NOT like about what you have.
3. Bought, as other have mentioned, for about $25 an APEX kit.
Start with #3.
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html
Then do #1.
Any specific problems after that.....#2.
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Here's my advice, leave it alone. Leave the whole gun alone. Don't pick it up and attempt to operate it until you grasp the design's intent, which should have been known before you purchased the piece. What is clear is that you have not thought much about the reality of this concept. Whether cavalier or ignorant, you need to step back and THINK. It's a close range concealed carry concept so your concern over trigger control is moot. What's important is your development of skill to be able to get close range hits intuitively, since some scenarios will not offer you the convenience of sight alignment or trigger control.
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I would suggest you shoot 200 or so rounds thru it first. That will allow you to see just how the trigger "shoots in" and may not require any further tuning. It also allows time for you to check for the slightest possibility that there could be any warranty or service issue that should be addressed (I seriously doubt there will be but I always err on the safe side). Mine was done by a S&W gunsmith at an in-store promo. It cost nothing and was performed by a highly trained, long time employee. I have no complaints.
Totally agree with Sterling! Used this type of shorty as a backup weapon when all we were authorized to use, was the wheel gun. This weapon was to be used as a last resort for very short range, around 5-7 yards, if even that. Dry fire is good working on a good pull. You'll be amazed on how accurate you'll become working on this along with an increase in speed. Shoot a lot! Good luck.
+1 on the Apex drop in kit. Someday I will shoot my 642 in an instinctive and accurate fashion; someday. It hasn't been easy but its such a simple, dependable rig.
The 642 is meant to be carried a lot and shot little. Spend time in front of the tv dry firing if you must 
"The DHS has purchased over 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition over the past year – enough to wage a 20 year plus war. Earlier this month, Forbes Magazine called for a “national conversation” on the matter."
"The DHS has purchased over 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition over the past year – enough to wage a 20 year plus war. Earlier this month, Forbes Magazine called for a “national conversation” on the matter."
I disagree. I do believe you cannot do to much dry firing but it does't hurt to shoot them, that is what they are for after all.
I shoot the crap out of mine with no ill effects.
It is true they were designed for self defense so why would've shoot as much as possible so that you can use to protect yourself and family?
I would think you would want to shoot and practice more with your SD revolver the. ny other gun.
I shoot the crap out of mine with no ill effects.
It is true they were designed for self defense so why would've shoot as much as possible so that you can use to protect yourself and family?
I would think you would want to shoot and practice more with your SD revolver the. ny other gun.
There is another reason to reconsider modifying the trigger on your primary CC weapon. Despite the fact that I am a big fan of the Apex kits and use them in a couple competition weapons, I don't modify the triggers on my CC weapons for liability reasons.
In more than one shooting case, modification of the CC weapon used in an otherwise clean shoot has been considered intent to harm. All that is needed, in the unfortunate event that you do have to dispatch a BG with your CC, is an overzealous prosecutor or a high profile case and the subject of modification will come up. Personally, I practice with my carry weapons as they came from the factory. The practice is always beneficial and improves my skills and perhaps my muscle memory for the worst case that I'll need it someday.
Plus, it may decrease the chances that I'll be the one behind bars instead of someone who deserves it.
In more than one shooting case, modification of the CC weapon used in an otherwise clean shoot has been considered intent to harm. All that is needed, in the unfortunate event that you do have to dispatch a BG with your CC, is an overzealous prosecutor or a high profile case and the subject of modification will come up. Personally, I practice with my carry weapons as they came from the factory. The practice is always beneficial and improves my skills and perhaps my muscle memory for the worst case that I'll need it someday.
Plus, it may decrease the chances that I'll be the one behind bars instead of someone who deserves it.
I'm not much for quoting scripture, but Matthew 15:14 comes to mind.
First of all, trigger control is never 'moot'. I'm guessing that Sterling has reversed his usual mantra on this one only because he has stepped beyond his expertise as an instructor.
Secondly, there is no way to get close range hits 'intutively' without trigger control. Intuitive hits are an advanced skill. If the advice is to a beginner it should be to always use the sights.
Third, my J frame snubbie shoots poppers quite well at 100 yards. I don't do it intuitively, and there's a reason I practice that.
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Just a thought but I've heard of people breaking them down and using a JB type bore paste on all the touching surfaces and dry firing. This is to smooth out the parts with the JB bore paste (i think it just speeds up dry firing it smooth with no help of an abrasvie) have a dry firing drill pull the gun back apart and clean and re-lube and see if the trigger smoother if not there yet repeat.
Why is it so far out of line? You obviously don't deal with shootings on a daily basis. If you have a fear for your safety and they have the intent and the ability to do you harm, then you are legit to protect yourself with deadly force. However if you do a trigger job (NOT A CERTIFIED GUNSMITH) on your pistol and you take your 12 lb DA trigger pull and make it a 6 lb DA trigger pull, then you open yourself up to some liability. A post shooting inspection on firearms is becoming a regular thing. Our agency does it on all our shootings and we do it for allied agencies too.
I certainly don't want to help derail this thread any further, but it does have a bearing on the OPs original question, so here I go:
Here is an excerpt from an article titled Choosing Self Defense Guns by the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network. Link: Choosing Self Defense Guns
Many an informed person have written about this, including well known gun writer Massad Ayoob.
Here is an excerpt from an article titled Choosing Self Defense Guns by the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network. Link: Choosing Self Defense Guns
Many an informed person have written about this, including well known gun writer Massad Ayoob.
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I wouldn't do that if I were you.
Graham's Rule #1 applies. You're making this up. There's no non-factory modification statute.
Correct, but it opens you up to civil liability.
Ladies and gentleman of the Jury, Mr. Smith killed my clients son. You will discover that he had non factory or altered parts parts which changed the trigger pull from a factory setting of 14 lbs to fire the weapon to a setting of 8 lbs to fire the weapon. While it isn't a crime to have a trigger job on a firearm, I intend to prove that Mr. Smith didn't even mean to shoot my clients son. In fact it was a complete accident caused to a light trigger setting. I would like you to award my client damages for the loss of her son.
Ladies and gentleman of the Jury, Mr. Smith killed my clients son. You will discover that he had non factory or altered parts parts which changed the trigger pull from a factory setting of 14 lbs to fire the weapon to a setting of 8 lbs to fire the weapon. While it isn't a crime to have a trigger job on a firearm, I intend to prove that Mr. Smith didn't even mean to shoot my clients son. In fact it was a complete accident caused to a light trigger setting. I would like you to award my client damages for the loss of her son.
So you are saying that the plaintiff can make unsubstantiated allegations of a firearm malfunction or a negligent discharge when the issue is self-defense?
Good luck with that - even in the 9th Circuit.
Good luck with that - even in the 9th Circuit.
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The issue isn't self defense, this is civil court. Anybody can sue you for just about anything. OJ was found not guilty of murder, but still payed damages in civil court. There is nothing against the law to get a trigger job, I just won't do it on my carry guns. Every man can do whatever he wants, but take your J frame to a gunsmith and tell him its your carry gun and you want a 6 lb trigger. See what he tells you.
Nope. You need a legal theory upon which to sue. Quit while you're ahead: You haven't a clue; and there's no sense proving it to the world.
I don't take legal advice from my gunsmith. I suggest that you don't either.
Can you please enlighten us all on your legal background and where your expertise on this subject comes from.
17874 - you're being baited, stop while you're ahead - Mr. Graham is a barrister who occasionally trolls for personal fun and the expansion of critical thinking skills for the group. Secondly, I've had this conversation with Judges / Prosecutors / Criminal Defense Attornies - effectively legit shootings that are really black and white - no issues with what you used or how it was mod'd. However if there is any grey area, and you used something or some means that the jury may construe as extra / excessive / even - unfair (subject to and within the widest trench of political leanings from one's respective community) while you still haven't done anything wrong, what your doing is making your counsel's job that much harder.
Good luck
Good luck
I know man, there is nothing wrong with a safe trigger job on a carry gun. There are no laws that I am aware of that prohibit it, but if there is any grey area that could open someone up to a potential civil case. That's all I am saying.
That's what you are saying now. Until now you were saying the opposite.
That's a good assessment, but it's only half correct: I'm not trolling; and it's not all that much fun (although, I admit, some Threads have their moments).
One can spend all day arguing with people on the internet who claim experience but post bad information for the sole purpose of seeing their post appear on the page. Arguing with those who would rather talk than listen is not the purpose of the exercise. You might be surprised to find out how many LE 'trainers' get their information from the internet. I have seen false information, cut-and-pasted from a website, appear in precision rifle training. I have seen departments implement policy based on internet myth. I have received calls and e-mails from trainers and instructors around the country who heard something on a Site like this one and plan to incorporate it into what they teach. Often that information is wrong.
I can't change the world, but I can ask a question or make a comment when someone who claims experience is talking out of his backside. That, and you're right: I am an advocate of using social media to vet people, to test knowledge, and to promote critical thinking among the group. It's something that this Site did well for years, until it got too large to do it very well.
To the op...you're on the right track. Shoot it as is. Then shoot it some more. Then shoot the crap out of it. Up close, belly gun, cc or whatever you want to call it. If your life is going to depend on it (we never know for sure do we) then it better be instinctive when you need it. Only way to do that is to use it. Practice drawing it from what you intend to carry it in, how you intend to carry it.
Probably the best "back up" piece I ever owned was one of S&W's 640s. I practiced as much with that little revolver as I did with my duty weapon. I was as confident in its reliability as I was in my ability to send rounds where I wanted them. That comes from shooting it and nothing else.
Probably the best "back up" piece I ever owned was one of S&W's 640s. I practiced as much with that little revolver as I did with my duty weapon. I was as confident in its reliability as I was in my ability to send rounds where I wanted them. That comes from shooting it and nothing else.
So on top of trigger jobs- we should ditch sights, milled slides for red dots, laser grips, and even ammo as they could be excessive or unfair for the person attempting to violate our rights?
No one is saying to carry a 1911 with a 1lb trigger, and no one here is reccomending trying to make your 642 have a 3lb DA trigger.
If there is any gray area- it's a gray area regardless of S&W doing a trigger job, or dropping in an APEX kit. It's your training and decisions that prevent the gray areas.
What is this 'gray [grey] area' that everyone must seek to avoid? Is 'grey area' a euphemism for saying 'I have no idea what specifics I am talking about'?
Only relevant evidence is admissible. Whether a modification is extra/excessive/unfair are not issues for the jury. If you negligently shoot someone, a modification relevant to the negligent discharge may speak to causation. Or, if a defense is that the firearm malfunctioned, a modification that caused it to malfunction may be relevant to (someone's) negligence.
The fact remains that you guys are talking about the double action pull of a revolver. If you defend yourself with a rusty hammer the issue for the jury isn't whether you created some sort of 'grey area' by leaving the hammer in the rain.
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I have shot over 2k rounds in mine, and did not think of a difference in trigger until I pulled a trigger at a lgs. It's like night and day how smooth it is now. I'd would just wait and just shoot it and spend you money on the rounds
I suggest purchasing 500-1000 rounds for it, train at 7 yards till your trigger finger literally hurts. The goal is all 5 rounds in the center mass of a man sized target...rapidly. Do this from a draw. After this, A trigger job might just fall off your radar.
Or not.
Or not.
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