Prisons
- Thread starter Maggot
- Start date
But why would we punish people for their actions?
Sent from my POS phone using Tapatalk 2
I firmly believe that corporal punishment would be good for this country. Lose a finger every time you screw up would get peoples attention quick. Sure would suck if you were innocent though. Too many tree huggers for that to pass.
I agree... send all the liberals to prison and take away their right to vote!!! I love talking politics with the inmates at my prison... cause I know their shit for brain democrat views cannot be put into action when they get out...
It is really a shame how some federal prisons are "country clubs" and others are not, while all the prisoners were found guilty in the same court system. All the prisoner are not treated equally, as I understand it, some prisons allow the criminals that have money, to purchase there own food, pay for laundry service etc., not to mention tennis courts, large pools, cable TV, etc. huge Gyms etc.. I'm one of those "Old Fashion" type Americans, that believes "All men were created equal", and that justice for all, should be our standard. All prisons should be a place no one wants to go to, or return to! All the scum should go to equally harsh conditons, all criminals are equal but some are more equal is just wrong. Once it is O.K. to walk away from our basic principles, treat some better than others, for example, it becomes easier to convince the general public that it is okay to walk away from any other principle set forth in the Constitution, 2nd Adm of course tops the list.
Then vote. Most people don't realize it, but the way our prisons are ran are governed by our legislature. We decide who runs the show with our votes. If you look back at the basic history of penitentiaries, they were originally made for people to go sit in and repent their crimes. The courts (elected officials) changed that to what we have now. All the extras are now there due to inmates complaining about being inside and not being afforded the luxuries, so once again, the people you have voted in, chose to give them those luxuries.
This is not true. I have never voted for, nor have you, or any member of this board for that matter, a Federal Judge, or for a member of the SCOTUS, they are not elected. Judges are "making law" when it comes to prisons. How long a prisoner is to be kept in a cell/day, visitation, etc. etc. etc., the American Commie Party, through their front orgainization, the ACLU in their own "news letter" had the following for a head line:
Prison Conditions
""The ACLU National Prison Project works to ensure that conditions of confinement are constitutional and consistent with health, safety, and human dignity. Our goals include substantially reducing the existing incarcerated population, especially among people of color, the mentally ill, and other vulnerable populations; ending cruel, inhuman, and degrading conditions of confinement; increasing public accountability and transparency of jails, prisons, and other places of detention; and expanding prisoners’ freedom of religion, expression, and association."""
It always makes me shake my head, when I read how the ACLU is working to protect 1st Adm rights, while remaining silent on 2nd Adm rights, two faced trash? Yes.
Federal judges (unelected) often decide what is okay or not okay for a jail or prison, not the elected officals. For example, in Tennessee the Sheriff (an Elected offical) runs the county jail. One lawsuit after another (they never stop) brought by ACLU types costs the tax payers a ton of money, not just in compliance with judges orders, but in our own[tax payers] legal expenses. The federal prison system is federal, meaning, all 100 senators and all reps have a vote, I'm only allowed to vote for 2 senators and for one rep. I never miss voting in an election, the problem isn't with me or those that care about America, but those that don't care vote in bigger numbers (and often they vote numerous times in the same election!). The fed BOP quietly wastes our money, and builds these lavish facilities. I believe, but I could be wrong, if every American knew what kind of facilites many of the federal prisons had, (most schools don't have anywhere near the same facilites) they would be upset. Solution for the Fed, do it quietly, build the luxury prisons away from big population centers-fly under the radar, as what the Tax Payers don't know, will only help the BOP waste more money.
Last edited:
Just ran into this article, again Federal Judges and the ACLU are telling Wardens how to run prisons:
Twitter
RSS Feed
ACLU: Prison warden defying Lindh prayer ruling
By TAL KOPAN |
4/10/13 4:59 PM EDT
The Indiana federal prison that houses so-called "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh is defying a court order to allow Muslim inmates group prayer five times a day, the American Civil Liberties Union says.
Lindh’s ACLU lawyers petitioned a federal judge Wednesday to hold in contempt the warden of the high-security prison where Lindh is serving.
The petition argues that following the court's order in January the warden implemented a policy that only allows prisoners to pray as a group three times a day, and with changing prayer schedules, it will be only twice by late April.
A March bulletin from the prison warden established three times per day that inmates can pray together, no more than 10 at a time, in 30-minute slots. The bulletin says those engaged in unauthorized group prayers could be disciplined.
Judge Jane Magnus-Stinson ruled in January for Lindh, an American who was convicted of fighting for the Taliban, that a prison policy banning daily group prayer violated the First Amendment's freedom of religion clause, but the court said some less-restrictive security restrictions could be allowable.
The ACLU calls for the warden to be ordered to appear in court and required to comply with the earlier ruling that inmates be able to pray together at times they are otherwise allowed out of their cells.
Ken Falk, legal director of the ACLU of Indiana said the judge’s previous orders were clear and the Bureau of Prisons is not complying. He also said the organization had communicated as much to lawyers before filing the petition.
“We all have expectations when the court makes a decision that it will be fully complied with, and partial compliance is not sufficient,” Falk said.
The Bureau of Prisons did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
----I guess security is not the issue, if the BOP must hire more guards, then get it on, there is no excuse for not running a Federal Prison to accomodate any religion. When the ACLU and the Taliban gang up on you, look out.
RSS Feed
ACLU: Prison warden defying Lindh prayer ruling
By TAL KOPAN |
4/10/13 4:59 PM EDT
The Indiana federal prison that houses so-called "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh is defying a court order to allow Muslim inmates group prayer five times a day, the American Civil Liberties Union says.
Lindh’s ACLU lawyers petitioned a federal judge Wednesday to hold in contempt the warden of the high-security prison where Lindh is serving.
The petition argues that following the court's order in January the warden implemented a policy that only allows prisoners to pray as a group three times a day, and with changing prayer schedules, it will be only twice by late April.
A March bulletin from the prison warden established three times per day that inmates can pray together, no more than 10 at a time, in 30-minute slots. The bulletin says those engaged in unauthorized group prayers could be disciplined.
Judge Jane Magnus-Stinson ruled in January for Lindh, an American who was convicted of fighting for the Taliban, that a prison policy banning daily group prayer violated the First Amendment's freedom of religion clause, but the court said some less-restrictive security restrictions could be allowable.
The ACLU calls for the warden to be ordered to appear in court and required to comply with the earlier ruling that inmates be able to pray together at times they are otherwise allowed out of their cells.
Ken Falk, legal director of the ACLU of Indiana said the judge’s previous orders were clear and the Bureau of Prisons is not complying. He also said the organization had communicated as much to lawyers before filing the petition.
“We all have expectations when the court makes a decision that it will be fully complied with, and partial compliance is not sufficient,” Falk said.
The Bureau of Prisons did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
----I guess security is not the issue, if the BOP must hire more guards, then get it on, there is no excuse for not running a Federal Prison to accomodate any religion. When the ACLU and the Taliban gang up on you, look out.
Last edited:
What you are quoting is federal prisons. There are FAR fewer federal prisons then state ran prisons. All of our stuff here at the prison that I work with, gets ran through the governor. And who votes for the governor... the people. The governor appoints the executive administration team. All of those non elected official spots your are talking about, such as those federal judges, have to be appointed by someone who is elected. It ALL goes back to who votes for who. Here is a list of the executive admin team appointed by the Governor, who was just voted in, in WA state:
•Administrative Services Division, Denise Doty, Assistant Secretary
•Budget, Sarian Scott, Director
•Correctional Industries, Lyle Morse, Director
•Confidential Secretary, Susan Grisham
•Community Corrections Division, Anmarie Aylward, Assistant Secretary
•Communications, Chad Lewis, Acting Director
•Information Technology, Doug Hoffer, Chief Information Officer
•Human Resources, Donna Haley, Director
•Health Services Division, Susan Lucas, Assistant Secretary
•Indeterminate Sentence Review Board, Lynne Delano, Chairperson
•Offender Change Division, Amy Seidlitz, Director
•Office of Executive Policy, Sandy Mullins, Director
•Office of Performance Management and Accountability, Adam Aaseby, Director
•Prisons Division, Dan Pacholke, Assistant Secretary
•Risk Management, Kathy Gastreich, Director
•Assistant Attorney General, Timothy Lang
•Administrative Services Division, Denise Doty, Assistant Secretary
•Budget, Sarian Scott, Director
•Correctional Industries, Lyle Morse, Director
•Confidential Secretary, Susan Grisham
•Community Corrections Division, Anmarie Aylward, Assistant Secretary
•Communications, Chad Lewis, Acting Director
•Information Technology, Doug Hoffer, Chief Information Officer
•Human Resources, Donna Haley, Director
•Health Services Division, Susan Lucas, Assistant Secretary
•Indeterminate Sentence Review Board, Lynne Delano, Chairperson
•Offender Change Division, Amy Seidlitz, Director
•Office of Executive Policy, Sandy Mullins, Director
•Office of Performance Management and Accountability, Adam Aaseby, Director
•Prisons Division, Dan Pacholke, Assistant Secretary
•Risk Management, Kathy Gastreich, Director
•Assistant Attorney General, Timothy Lang
While there are people in prison that are very bad for sure, don't get too hung up on your righteous feelings of wanting all the prisons to be these brutal barbaric medieval dungeons. There are way too many laws and probably a good half of the people in federal prison shouldn't be there if this was back to being a truly free country the way the founders set it up. Too many people seem to want anyone ever convicted of a crime to be brutalized and then when they get out, oppressed for the rest of their lives.
Considering Dedicated Christians, combat veterans, people that believe in the constitution & limited government types, are all now starting to be labeled by the administration as possible groups that need to be "watched with great care", you might want to be careful what you wish for. You may love to see a guy that grew a couple pot plants or forgot the correct sticker on a package he was shipping, or stepped on the wrong beetle's nest get raped and brutalized in prison because you feel so greatly superior, be careful what you wish for, one day it might be you in there as some judge thinks that you haven't turned in ALL your guns and decides to stick you in prison till you rat out other people who the judge "thinks" you might know.... happens every day to other people.
Considering Dedicated Christians, combat veterans, people that believe in the constitution & limited government types, are all now starting to be labeled by the administration as possible groups that need to be "watched with great care", you might want to be careful what you wish for. You may love to see a guy that grew a couple pot plants or forgot the correct sticker on a package he was shipping, or stepped on the wrong beetle's nest get raped and brutalized in prison because you feel so greatly superior, be careful what you wish for, one day it might be you in there as some judge thinks that you haven't turned in ALL your guns and decides to stick you in prison till you rat out other people who the judge "thinks" you might know.... happens every day to other people.
Last edited:
You need to do a lot more reading, sorry, but Federal Court ruling Effect State Run Prisons, even your gov. can't say no.
Prisoners can gain and lose freedoms according to court rulings.
With the backing of the criminal justice system, the prisons control nearly every aspect of a prisoner's life. However, even prisoners -- whether through lawyers or their own legal research -- can appeal and sometimes change the law. Courts can control the size and population of a prison and increase prisoners' liberties, but they can also restrict prisoner rights with their rulings.
Read more: The Effect of Court Rulings on Correctional Institutions | eHow.com The Effect of Court Rulings on Correctional Institutions | eHow.com
--------------First it was elected, then it was-well Federal Judges are appointed by those that are elected, but that is a huge difference. You seem to forget, Fed Judges are in for LIFE, those elected that appointed, may have lost their re-election, but the Fed judges remain, again FOR LIFE. Once again, let me be clear, Fed Judges make ruling that effect how State Run Prisons are run, not kinda sorta, but right away.
I hope no one is actually suggesting that we go back to dungeons! I for one would find that cruel and inhumane (Anti Constitutional), however; not having swiming pools, $500,000 gyms, tennis courts etc. could hardly be consider cruel, or dungeon like. I do believe that prison is a punishment, not a get-a-way. You seem to forget that 50%+- all inmates in the U.S. are there for violent crimes, rape, murder, armed robbery, etc. I do not like paying for luxury quarters for these people, most Americans that pay taxes are of like mind (not those that don't pay taxes, but vote ). Your argument is what could happen, (in your mind), I am talking about what is and what Has happend. Regarding your argument, do you really think "some judge thinks you haven't turned in ALL........, let's be real, even if that did happen do you think he [the judge] would "throw" you in a prison with tennis courts, swimming pools and a gym? The vast majority of our schools do not have swimming pools, and tennis courts, and no where near the type of gyms some of these prisons have. I would much rather spend that money on our school for our kids. But the truth is, we borrow billions of dollars from places like RED CHINA, to build tennis courts, swimming pools, and gyms for our rapists/murderers/armed robbers, child molesters etc. not to mention those that have stolen millions, and in the case of madof billions of dollars. It does not make sense to those of us that Pay taxes.
Last edited:
One thing about that pic that is not true, at least not where I work. The guns. Unless you are in a tower or a gun rail of some sort, you arent armed. If you are within arms reach of an inmate and there is a gun, something went terribly wrong. Also, as far as defensive weapons, hands, feet, training and common sense. Pepper spray, baton, tazer, pepperball, any other less lethal, not unless your an extraction team or supervisor, and thats if they need it.
Some of these inmates have more commissary items than I have in my pantry. I even saw an inmate who had $40k as his balence on his receipt. Its not that they get money, but an account that gets things deducted from it. Is there a question of need? Not really, but it helps. At the agency I work for, if an inmate has personal clothing, per policy, he/she is not entitled to state issue clothing. If an inmate isn't feeling whats on the menu for chow, they can eat out of their locker. Both save money. While I don't know about pools and tennis courts, but some rec time and some equipment is necessary. They get bored, angry, tensions raise, then you get them assauling each other. Not a totally bad thing, until you realize that the staff (not just officers) are now in harms way. Ever see a small scuffle turn into a full blown riot?
Prison is all about control. If we need to toss the dogs a bone to keep the peace while we go find out who is bringing in contraband or how they are getting it, or whats going on with the politics of the yard, so be it. Prisons have two types. Bad people, and decent people who did bad things. Beofre you go and scream "what about those wrongly convicted", the prison has nothing to do with that. Take it up with the courts and the police involved. Until something else is proven that says otherwise, they are guilty and in the care and custody of the prison.
Some of these inmates have more commissary items than I have in my pantry. I even saw an inmate who had $40k as his balence on his receipt. Its not that they get money, but an account that gets things deducted from it. Is there a question of need? Not really, but it helps. At the agency I work for, if an inmate has personal clothing, per policy, he/she is not entitled to state issue clothing. If an inmate isn't feeling whats on the menu for chow, they can eat out of their locker. Both save money. While I don't know about pools and tennis courts, but some rec time and some equipment is necessary. They get bored, angry, tensions raise, then you get them assauling each other. Not a totally bad thing, until you realize that the staff (not just officers) are now in harms way. Ever see a small scuffle turn into a full blown riot?
Prison is all about control. If we need to toss the dogs a bone to keep the peace while we go find out who is bringing in contraband or how they are getting it, or whats going on with the politics of the yard, so be it. Prisons have two types. Bad people, and decent people who did bad things. Beofre you go and scream "what about those wrongly convicted", the prison has nothing to do with that. Take it up with the courts and the police involved. Until something else is proven that says otherwise, they are guilty and in the care and custody of the prison.
3 squares a day, as described by a nutritionist.
A bed.
Access to books.
Shelter from the elements. (this is 'to code' roofing and insulated walls and floor)
Ventilation system, for air exchange.
These things should be granted to all prisoners. I don't care what they're in for. These things should be classed as "privileges" in themselves, considering that "Dealth Penalty" is also on the table. As in, if one didn't get 'the death penalty', then be happy with what you did get.
A 'movie night' (via a projected venue) shall be available once a week, for those who've not abused their conditions. The 'movie' shall be decided by the warden.
Chain-gangs, gravel-pits, and local area roadwork shall be the course of the day. They are 'paying their debt to society' so start payin'. We'll keep the 'change', thank you very much.
JAIL/PRISON/PENITENTIARY both IS and SHOULD BE a bad and unpleasant place to be. In Other Words, the incentive FOR ALL OF SOCIETY needs to be "lets not go to jail".
If one acts as a drain on the public system, as well as a deterrent to the societal peace, then they should be kept FROM that populace until they have served their time.
If what they've done is 'bad' enough, then the should be executed for their crime. And yes, I believe that the 'bar' for what is considered 'bad enough' should definitely be lowered. Considerably.
Let's turn the Penal System into something that has the definition of "penalty" into it. It is called the Penal System, not the Reward System.
Can you tell that I've practically no human regard for SO MANY of the heathens that are behind bars? They are of NO USE to society, so why should society be responsible for supporting them, let alone 'coddling them'?
Part 'em out, and donate their organs to those who need em.
A bed.
Access to books.
Shelter from the elements. (this is 'to code' roofing and insulated walls and floor)
Ventilation system, for air exchange.
These things should be granted to all prisoners. I don't care what they're in for. These things should be classed as "privileges" in themselves, considering that "Dealth Penalty" is also on the table. As in, if one didn't get 'the death penalty', then be happy with what you did get.
A 'movie night' (via a projected venue) shall be available once a week, for those who've not abused their conditions. The 'movie' shall be decided by the warden.
Chain-gangs, gravel-pits, and local area roadwork shall be the course of the day. They are 'paying their debt to society' so start payin'. We'll keep the 'change', thank you very much.
JAIL/PRISON/PENITENTIARY both IS and SHOULD BE a bad and unpleasant place to be. In Other Words, the incentive FOR ALL OF SOCIETY needs to be "lets not go to jail".
If one acts as a drain on the public system, as well as a deterrent to the societal peace, then they should be kept FROM that populace until they have served their time.
If what they've done is 'bad' enough, then the should be executed for their crime. And yes, I believe that the 'bar' for what is considered 'bad enough' should definitely be lowered. Considerably.
Let's turn the Penal System into something that has the definition of "penalty" into it. It is called the Penal System, not the Reward System.
Can you tell that I've practically no human regard for SO MANY of the heathens that are behind bars? They are of NO USE to society, so why should society be responsible for supporting them, let alone 'coddling them'?
Part 'em out, and donate their organs to those who need em.
I just got out, done served my time for bangin the neighbor (she didn't charge much), it aint so bad. Sheet, the bologna they served was fresher'n the shit I ever had. And they had teevee and everythin...
You have state in the above, "probably a good half of the people in federal prison shouldn't be there..." . This is a CROCK!
As of 30 March 2013, here is the break down of federal prisoners, according to the BOP:
Drug Offenses: 90,245 (47.3 %)
Weapons, Explosives, Arson: 30,893 (16.2 %)
Immigration: 22,526 (11.8 %)
Robbery: 7,927 (4.2 %)
Burglary, Larceny, Property Offenses: 7,650 (4.0 %)
Extortion, Fraud, Bribery: 10,994 (5.8 %)
Homicide, Aggravated Assault, and Kidnapping Offenses: 5,667 (3.0 %)
Miscellaneous: 1,572 (0.8 %)
Sex Offenses: 11,385 (6.0 %)
Banking and Insurance, Counterfeit, Embezzlement: 818 (0.4 %)
Courts or Corrections: 619 (0.3 %)
Continuing Criminal Enterprise: 494 (0.3 %)
National Security: 85 (0.0 %)
Which half would you say shouldn't be in prison?
The ones there for drug offences, and that appears, per your statistics, to comprise just about half the prison population.
The war on drugs is a proven failure (just as prohibition was) and an immense waste of time and treasure, not to mention wrecking peoples lives for laws that should be dismissed as unconstitutional. The most dangerous drug out there (excluding ignorance) is alcohol and its legal, why should others who choose to use a different way in "The pursuit of happiness" be punished. That's not a level playing field, its not justice, and its not the way I learned about personal liberty. If you fuck up, get strung out on anything, including alcohol, do something stupid, then maybe you should go to jail for stupidity, but not for what should be you right to happiness...
But the pharmaceutical companies big money is against that.
And then there is that most dangerous drug, ignorance.
can SOMEONE show me ONE just ONE prison(non private) with a swimming pool. IF there is please tell me..fact is alot of people talk about stuff that they hear second or even third hand.
Pretty easy, if you actually go back to the constitution and the founding of this country and the proper role of the government as originally envisioned and outlined then the top 3 on your list would be mostly gone.
Number 1: It is not the government's job to dictate what you as an Adult decide to do with your own self or body & saying Drugs are bad for you so don't have them or we will do worse things to you was never thought of as part of the constitution. People have used things to forget their problems or feel better since the dawn of time and only in the mid 1900s did they suddenly become this huge evil thing the government should go to war on their own people over (Seems nobody ever learned anything from Prohibition). The fact that the last 3 presidents all admitted to using drugs pretty much shows what a farce the whole thing truly is.
Number 2: Only until the constitution was perverted did many things in this category become crimes. Before that, who cared if your shotgun had a 16" barrel or a 15.5" barrel? Who really cared about the exact bore size of your musket? Up until the mid 1900s explosives were in common supply if you could afford them. This all came about very similar to number 1 as they tried this stupid prohibition thing that fell flat on it's face but we have been paying for the outcome of it ever since.
Number 3: Originally it was come to America if you wanted and have a go at life, NO handouts, you may starve to death but you will be free to try your best to make a good life of it. Immigration would not be nearly as big an issue now if it was not for all the government handouts NONE of which were originally part of the government.
Numbers 4 & 5 could also be drastically reduced by going back to the good old Biblical system and have people who have stolen be indentured servants till they paid back the people they wronged. If they didn't specifically wrong the government, then they wronged individual people and they should have to work to repay those people + extra for the trouble. You would only need to keep those that pose a Violent threat incarcerated.
Your answer is funnneee! You "Number 1", some how, some way, you think most people in prison for drug crimes, on the federal level, are there for taking drugs!! I know your joking. Selling heroin to kids, smuggleing Heroin from Pakistan to sell to kids, etc. is a Federal crime, not some low life dope smoker with a couple of joints in in dirty pocket.
To even argue that ARSON, Explosives are not good grounds for prison, you're crazy. You fail to break down how many of the 16.2% are there for ARSON, Explosives and weapons, but instead, droooooon on about a short tube on a shot gun. You may have had a problem with you glasses, and you may have not read the post, but just to help you out, 16.2% are in Federal Prison for Weapons, Arson, and Explosives crimes, all three combinded make up the 16.2%, hope this helps. Regarding what I feel are stupid gun laws, anti Constiutional Gun Laws, I believe we have maybe 2% (if that) in Federal prison for these crimes, and I am sorry for them, and I am sorry our Country is not holding the Constitution up as the highest law in the land.
Number 3-far to complex to describe in a shot sentence or two. Everything from forging Federal Documents, to Bribes to Federal LE, to those that smuggle humans across the border etc.
Number 4&5 of your answer has me concerned, there is something wrong with you-get help, seriously get help. Indentured servants (slaves), and replacing the Constitution with your reading of the bible, is- if anything- scarey! Get help.
Last edited:
No problem amigo:
8 / 14
Michel Meynsbrughen/SXC
A stand-alone prison camp in West Virginia for females, FPC Alderson was home to Martha Stewart when she served five months for lying to investigators about a stock sale. Inmates may swim in the pool, or participate in talent shows and game shows. They can also play volleyball, softball, basketball or go roller skating.
----I guess some of us are just far better at being able to google than others, glad I can help.
Fuck.. obviously I work in the wrong prison. Mine doesn't have any of those top notch luxuries like a swimming pool. They have the big yard, and the gym where they can play basketball or lift weights. Pawprint, if you think life is so luxurious on the inside, why don't you go take a trip inside. Do some time on the inside and we'll see if you are preaching this shit once you get out... From the couple ACTUAL C/O's that aren't going off reports you read somewhere online or in a fucking paper, get some real experience or stop preaching this bullshit. You say all prisons are like the ones that Martha Stewart go to?? Get real dude...
It should be noted, that to keep a scum bag in prison in the Great State of Louisiana, it costs +-13,000/year, while to keep the same scum bag in a Federal Prison, it costs: +-$29,000, more than double! And let's remember, so many of these federal "prisons" are not High Security, but rather medium/low/camps (get-a-ways), where as in LA, they don't run large Country Club Like prisons.
Doing away with nightly movies/stores/fancy gyms/tennis courts/music classes/art classes/gardening classes/cable TV etc., etc. might save the tax payers a couple of dollars, in fact turning the entire system over to LA, could save us a pile of money! The Fed spent (2010) 7.6 BILLION DOLLARS on the scum bags in prison. I guess those people running prisons in LA, are more than twice as smart as those fools running Federal Prisons-the TAX dollars don't lie.
Doing away with nightly movies/stores/fancy gyms/tennis courts/music classes/art classes/gardening classes/cable TV etc., etc. might save the tax payers a couple of dollars, in fact turning the entire system over to LA, could save us a pile of money! The Fed spent (2010) 7.6 BILLION DOLLARS on the scum bags in prison. I guess those people running prisons in LA, are more than twice as smart as those fools running Federal Prisons-the TAX dollars don't lie.
You are an idiot, your posts give you away, stop making such a fool of your self. The question was, "show me just one..." I did. End of question-get over it. Do a little research, do a little reading on the subject, your knowledge on the subject is poooor to say the least. You are still under the false notion that a Federal Judges Order's don't effect state prisons-you are wrong, they do. You are under the strange opinion, to quote you, """"""The courts (elected officials) changed that to what we have now. All the extras are now there due to inmates complaining about being inside and not being afforded the luxuries, so once again, the people you have voted in, chose to give them those luxuries. """" Your are wrong, Federal Judges are appointed not by groups of elected officals, but rather by the POTUS, with the advice and consent of congress. Where you come up with this stuff is strange. You worked in some scummeee prison, and now you are an expert on all prisons, including Federal Prisons, not likely. You can spend some time reading about various prisons, including Federal prisons, and what they cost, what facilities they have etc., and after that, you'll know more. Take the time, check the $$$$$ figures, check the cost/inmate, check the facilities (paid for by the Tax Payers) at each prison, the BOP even published a book on the subject, don't forget the "private" prisons, some are very nice. Spend some time checking out the facilities former ATGEN John Mitchel had (I've read where the guards did not have a key to his private "suite"). You stupid posts make you look poorly read, poorly traveled and pooooorleeeeee informed. Get a Life!
Last edited:
You can read every thread, blog, or internet news clipping you want dude, but until you grow a pair and actually see the inside of a prison, you are no better than the dumbfucks printing this that sit behind a desk. How about doing some real research and finding numbers about how these programs and activities have lowered the amount of gang activity, have lowered the amount of fights, have lowered the uneasiness of the prisoners. All of these activities are provided to the offenders and you know what, I support most of the shit they get because at the end of the day I get to come home to my family, and I know that all of my coworkers are doing the same. So you can ride your fucking high horse all the way to the bank as you sit at home and copy/paste shit off the internet and try to act as if you know what the fuck you are talking about. You say my posts make me look poorly read, must be real fucking hard to press copy and paste off of those internet sites...
I don't give a shit about what you say or think, but if one of our staff goes home at the end of the day and doesn't end up killed or seriously injured cause some guy went and played basketball or went and lifted weights to let the steam off, I am 10000% behind the idea of the offenders having these privileges. Remember when your mom used shit to ground you from and you straightened your shit out?? We use them just the same. They act out, they lose privileges. Once again you can read every newspaper clipping out there you want, but until you put your big boy pants on and step into our shoes, fuck off.
I don't give a shit about what you say or think, but if one of our staff goes home at the end of the day and doesn't end up killed or seriously injured cause some guy went and played basketball or went and lifted weights to let the steam off, I am 10000% behind the idea of the offenders having these privileges. Remember when your mom used shit to ground you from and you straightened your shit out?? We use them just the same. They act out, they lose privileges. Once again you can read every newspaper clipping out there you want, but until you put your big boy pants on and step into our shoes, fuck off.
I guess, as you have established yourself as an absolute authority on the entire prison system within the United States (to include the history of incarceration), I need to you ask you, what facilites do they have in Pelican Bay, those that are for inmates? How often do inmates get out of their cells? How many guards were killed by inmates last year-or the year before?
Regarding drug use in state prison, let's take the state of WA, how are the drugs getting into those prisons? Who is making money from the sales of drugs in the WA prisons? I would spend some time reading up on the subject, but as you have pointed out, reading about a subject, in order to gain knowledge is a poor way to gain any expertise, you must actually become a prisoner (I guess you were a prisoner for several years, was it for child molestation or rape?) as you have pointed out this is the only way to know something about a subject, and as you have pointed out you are in fact an expert. When you start talking about "putting on big boy pants", with all the time you spent in prison-I'm sure it means something different to you than to most of us!!! I don't even want to know, please keep that sort of thing to your self, and your former cell mates.
Regarding drug use in state prison, let's take the state of WA, how are the drugs getting into those prisons? Who is making money from the sales of drugs in the WA prisons? I would spend some time reading up on the subject, but as you have pointed out, reading about a subject, in order to gain knowledge is a poor way to gain any expertise, you must actually become a prisoner (I guess you were a prisoner for several years, was it for child molestation or rape?) as you have pointed out this is the only way to know something about a subject, and as you have pointed out you are in fact an expert. When you start talking about "putting on big boy pants", with all the time you spent in prison-I'm sure it means something different to you than to most of us!!! I don't even want to know, please keep that sort of thing to your self, and your former cell mates.
Last edited:
So now you are calling me a chimo? That's what you've got? I tell you that these programs are made to protect me and my fellow officers, and you call me a child molester... Who's the one with the more maturity here? Ask any one of these fellow C/O's that have posted in here and see if they would trade in the programs for their, or their partners lifes. Or just call them chimo's too, if that's what you need to do to be the big bad dog...
It's really interesting how we don't have big networks of smugglers running whiskey to school kids, smuggled in from shady countries, or Violent tobacco cartels killing tens of thousands of people over the lucrative trade in smuggling cigarettes into the USA? Everybody always brings up the "But what about the children" thing, but it's simply that it's no harder for children to get something from a well established illegal trade than it is for an adult, whereas with legal trade there is less incentives to go beyond the law. It's not to say that Drugs are good for you, but rather that the "War on Drugs" has failed even more miserably than prohibition did. Now the voters in some states are finally coming around to that realization.
Now your being all scared about my mentioning indentured servitude, it is actually constitutional, from the 13th Amendment:
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation
So instead of them being indentured (having had their right to freedom taken away) to the state by reason of their crimes and doing nothing but sitting in prison, it would seem more fair to be indentured in a system to pay back the victims of their misdeeds (assuming they are reasonable non violent people), in a reasonable and fair way for both parties & represents fairly both what was taken from the victim & their reasonable troubles as well as the fair market value of the work done by the victimizer to earn the money for repayment.
While YOU are READING up on these subjects, I am inside the prison, stripping these guys in and out, performing cell searches, do massive sweeps of their houses (cells), doing pat searches in the yard, doing paperwork and affiliating these guys with their gangs, making them shit out what they stuffed up their assholes after their wife smuggled them shit in through the VR. SO, like I said prior, you can read all you want. While you are getting your expertise on the internet reading Wikipedia, I am inside the prison, gaining this so called "expertise" first hand. Talk all you want to make yourself feel better, but until you have hands on experience, your opinion doesn't matter in my eyes.
Only the most ignorant, and poorly educated among us would spout such dribble. While I'm sure someone of your inteligence is only able to learn through "hand on" ( I'm sure you do all you can), the educated world believes in reading and studying a subject to gain a true, or at least, a better understanding. In one of your earlier posts (I guess you found time in between looking up mens asses to make it) you talked about "growing a set of balls", "putting on big boy pants", at least one "fuck you", and let's not forget "stripping these guys" and the "....stuffed up their assholes", you seem to have a fixation-get help. As I understand it, through reading, mind you, never having been a prisoner, nor one to brag about looking up mens "assholes" for any reason, I have been told there is a lot of sex between inmates with other inmates and between inmates and guards (maybe even guards and guards who knows), you seem to have found the right place to work!
I will state once again, the cost of prisons is far to high, we are borrowing money from RED CHINA to pay our bills. We can not longer afford (nor should we have started to-in the first place) to supply gyms, tennis courts, music classes, gardening classes, college ed (too many guys like myself took student loans to go to school yet child molesters/rapists/and the other scum that 'sportingwood' spends time look up their asses get a college ed for free in many prisons), to convicted criminals.
I can only guess why you gave yourself the tag "sportingwood", I'm sure it is job related-get help.
Last edited:
Wake up, do a little more reading, you're out of your mind! You are the only person I've ever heard of that thinks the 13th adm allows for indentured servants because the person in question has been convicted of a crime, you seem to have trouble understanding the differnece between Indentured Servants and Involuntary Servitude ( and slaves for that matter). If one actually listens to your crazy idea (I mean crazy as in mental problem) then those convicted of a crime in the US, could be sold as slaves. Again you are the only person I've ever heard put forth this type of crap, get real-there is no place in the world for Slavery, the Civil War settled this for all time. Those that believe in "slavery" are in need of help, get it if you can.
I have no way to know if you are sleeping with them-I can't read minds, but you do have a lot of time to talk about "lookin up men's assholes, putting on big boy pants, getting balls", and you call yourself 'sportin wood'". Putting someone down for reading, and enlightening themselves on any subject, is something I'd expect from only a fool. What makes it worse, is you are posting on a board, where people read, in order to gain knowledge!!! I wonder, do you post to all others-quit reading! Quit studying! Are you serious? Do you really believe the only way to gain knowledge about a subject is through hands on? Speaking of "hands on" there is another point you're proud of! almost as much as looking up other men's asses! SLEEPING with the inmates? I doubt it, I really do.
Last edited:
Keep it coming... I need to padd my posts so I can sell something once I get to 100 posts. By the way, does your mom know you snuck down into the basement again after she tucked you into bed? Don't eat all the Cheetos at once... 
Last edited:
Alright, I'm going to bed cause some of us work instead of sit at home on unemployment and collect from the gov't, so thank me for paying your bills for you while you sit there and read Wikipedia all day and night. So if you feel like you have to put some manly posts up, I will answer them in the morning. Have a nice rest of your evening....
By the way... is this you?? http://www.youtube.com/user/pawprint2
By the way... is this you?? http://www.youtube.com/user/pawprint2
I just saw the Monroe Correctional WEB page from the State of Washingtons DOC, very nice, they didn't spare any expense:
Victims
Facilities
Offender Info
Community
Jobs
About DOC
Location & Facilities
Monroe Correctional Complex
16550 177th Avenue SE
PO Box 777
Monroe, WA 98272
(360) 794-2600
[Driving Directions] [Aerial Photo]
Notice: A non–DOC method of communication has been created by and for family members⁄friends of offenders at MCC. To ask a question or send a message to the family council at Monroe, email: [email protected].
Facility at a Glance
Superintendent: Robert Herzog
Custody Level: Maximum, Close, Medium, and Minimum
Units and Custody levels
MCC Prison Fact Sheet
Operating Capacity: 2,400 offenders
Year Opened: 1910
Visiting Information
Visit the Friends and Family website for great information including how to prepare for visiting with children.
Visiting Guidelines and Schedule
Visitor’s Application: Please fill out either the Online Application, or the Hard Copy Application not both. Submitting multiple visit applications for an individual visitor will cause a delay in processing.
Parent⁄Guardian consent form
2013 Family Events Calendar
For all visitors: Please note, while walking on facility grounds smoking is prohibited. We thank our visitors for helping this facility stay healthy by covering coughs and preventing the spread of germs and illnesses. Please also read these flyers on influenza and visiting as well as cold vs. flu symptoms.
Facility
2013 Visiting Schedule
Washington State Reformatory
2013 WSR Visit Schedule
Twin Rivers Unit
2013 TRU Visit Schedule
Special Offender Unit
2013 SOU Visit Schedule
Minimum Security Unit
2013 MSU Visit Schedule
Programs
Educational and Offender Change programs:
Work and Vocational Programs:
•Adult Basic Education
Community Involvement
Monroe Correctional Complex expands public awareness of the Department of Corrections within the facility through volunteer resources. This partnership encourages supervised interaction between responsible citizens and offenders. Community volunteers provide programs and services that promote positive reintegration into the community. These groups focus on religious, cultural, personal accountability and reentry assistance. Volunteers provide personal and professional expertise in teaching offenders real–life skills necessary to achieve successful transition to community life.
A substantial number of community volunteers offer a variety of social and religious programming opportunities for offenders at Monroe. The facility has two full–time Chaplains to cover the five separate units within the Complex. The facility relies heavily on faith–based volunteers to provide spiritual programming opportunities to offenders of all faiths in accordance to correctional guidelines.
_----------------------------------As I pointed out even in this complex,even in this large prison the just because the
majority of inmates are not Maximum security, we should not be spending tax money on all the programs, to name a few:•GED
•Integrated Horticulture
•Medication Management
•Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT)
•Sex Offender Treatment Program
•Carpentry
•Graphic Arts & Printing
•Information Technology
•Multi Media/Visual Communication
• Complete list of programs
Having looked up the DOC-WA website, I was surprised at how few inmates the state had, 17,697. Also I was surprised that the State of WA has built so many "small" little out of the way prisons, along with four stand alone prison that have less than 500 inmates each, they have two that have less than 1000 (one of those being the womens prison). These little "boutique" prisons may be nice for supplying jobs to friends of various state politicos, but I wonder as the economy gets tighter, we will see this sort of thing continue? It looks alike a lot of budget trimming could be done there-in a hurry.
Victims
Facilities
Offender Info
Community
Jobs
About DOC
Location & Facilities
Monroe Correctional Complex
16550 177th Avenue SE
PO Box 777
Monroe, WA 98272
(360) 794-2600
[Driving Directions] [Aerial Photo]
Notice: A non–DOC method of communication has been created by and for family members⁄friends of offenders at MCC. To ask a question or send a message to the family council at Monroe, email: [email protected].
Facility at a Glance
Superintendent: Robert Herzog
Custody Level: Maximum, Close, Medium, and Minimum
Units and Custody levels
MCC Prison Fact Sheet
Operating Capacity: 2,400 offenders
Year Opened: 1910
Visiting Information
Visit the Friends and Family website for great information including how to prepare for visiting with children.
Visiting Guidelines and Schedule
Visitor’s Application: Please fill out either the Online Application, or the Hard Copy Application not both. Submitting multiple visit applications for an individual visitor will cause a delay in processing.
Parent⁄Guardian consent form
2013 Family Events Calendar
For all visitors: Please note, while walking on facility grounds smoking is prohibited. We thank our visitors for helping this facility stay healthy by covering coughs and preventing the spread of germs and illnesses. Please also read these flyers on influenza and visiting as well as cold vs. flu symptoms.
Facility
2013 Visiting Schedule
Washington State Reformatory
2013 WSR Visit Schedule
Twin Rivers Unit
2013 TRU Visit Schedule
Special Offender Unit
2013 SOU Visit Schedule
Minimum Security Unit
2013 MSU Visit Schedule
Programs
Educational and Offender Change programs:
Work and Vocational Programs:
•Adult Basic Education
Community Involvement
Monroe Correctional Complex expands public awareness of the Department of Corrections within the facility through volunteer resources. This partnership encourages supervised interaction between responsible citizens and offenders. Community volunteers provide programs and services that promote positive reintegration into the community. These groups focus on religious, cultural, personal accountability and reentry assistance. Volunteers provide personal and professional expertise in teaching offenders real–life skills necessary to achieve successful transition to community life.
A substantial number of community volunteers offer a variety of social and religious programming opportunities for offenders at Monroe. The facility has two full–time Chaplains to cover the five separate units within the Complex. The facility relies heavily on faith–based volunteers to provide spiritual programming opportunities to offenders of all faiths in accordance to correctional guidelines.
_----------------------------------As I pointed out even in this complex,even in this large prison the just because the
majority of inmates are not Maximum security, we should not be spending tax money on all the programs, to name a few:•GED
•Integrated Horticulture
•Medication Management
•Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT)
•Sex Offender Treatment Program
•Carpentry
•Graphic Arts & Printing
•Information Technology
•Multi Media/Visual Communication
• Complete list of programs
Having looked up the DOC-WA website, I was surprised at how few inmates the state had, 17,697. Also I was surprised that the State of WA has built so many "small" little out of the way prisons, along with four stand alone prison that have less than 500 inmates each, they have two that have less than 1000 (one of those being the womens prison). These little "boutique" prisons may be nice for supplying jobs to friends of various state politicos, but I wonder as the economy gets tighter, we will see this sort of thing continue? It looks alike a lot of budget trimming could be done there-in a hurry.
Just looked up what it cost to house a prisoner in the to the state of Washington:
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - It costs an average of nearly $30,000 a year for each inmate in the 15 state prisons in Washington.
The Department of Corrections says the most expensive prison is the Ahtanum View Complex at Yakima, which holds old, ill and disabled inmates. The average cost there is nearly $50,000 a year.
The cheapest place to house prisoners is Coyote Ridge Corrections Center in Connell, which runs about $20,000 per inmate.
The cost for the Corrections Center for Women at Gig Harbor is nearly $40,000. The cost might be higher than average because of women giving birth.
****I realize 'sporting wood' is 100%against anyone reading/researching/studying any subject matter, he feels the "hands-on" approach is the only way to learn anything-little wonder he works in a prison-"looking up men's asses", he likes his job. But back to the point, it is fairly clear the people in the Great State of LA, spend less than half/scumbag, it is easy to figure out the prison system and those that work it in WA aren't very smart, or at least not as smart as those in LA!! If they had someone,not 'sporting wood' as he doesn't believe in written research, spend some time reasearching how they do it in LA, maybe they could just copy the LA system! The millions upon millions of dollars saved could be put to good use. I'd like to suggest teaching the kids in WA how to read, write, and research subject matter, as by doing so, they may not have to spend the rest of their lives in or working in a prison-unless of course they enjoy looking up men's asses!
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - It costs an average of nearly $30,000 a year for each inmate in the 15 state prisons in Washington.
The Department of Corrections says the most expensive prison is the Ahtanum View Complex at Yakima, which holds old, ill and disabled inmates. The average cost there is nearly $50,000 a year.
The cheapest place to house prisoners is Coyote Ridge Corrections Center in Connell, which runs about $20,000 per inmate.
The cost for the Corrections Center for Women at Gig Harbor is nearly $40,000. The cost might be higher than average because of women giving birth.
****I realize 'sporting wood' is 100%against anyone reading/researching/studying any subject matter, he feels the "hands-on" approach is the only way to learn anything-little wonder he works in a prison-"looking up men's asses", he likes his job. But back to the point, it is fairly clear the people in the Great State of LA, spend less than half/scumbag, it is easy to figure out the prison system and those that work it in WA aren't very smart, or at least not as smart as those in LA!! If they had someone,not 'sporting wood' as he doesn't believe in written research, spend some time reasearching how they do it in LA, maybe they could just copy the LA system! The millions upon millions of dollars saved could be put to good use. I'd like to suggest teaching the kids in WA how to read, write, and research subject matter, as by doing so, they may not have to spend the rest of their lives in or working in a prison-unless of course they enjoy looking up men's asses!
Anytime you want to get off the couch and put down the cheetos bag, come on up. I'll give ya a tour
By the way, you seem like somebody who isnt satisified til they have the last word.. Game on bitch
By the way, you seem like somebody who isnt satisified til they have the last word.. Game on bitch
So by bringing up the fact that you dont want to pay for the prisoners rights to have the privileges, are you saying that you'd be willing to save a few dollars to see prison violence rise and more staff assaults/murders?? Just asking, feel free to say that you'd rather have law enforcement officers killed instead of giving something a tv to watch...
Wood, I've watched Paw's posts for some tie now and I think you had best remember this old saying when dealing with him..."Never argue with an idiot, He will wear you down and then beat you with experience." Paw seems an expert on every subject. That's hard to top. I mean .he's read about prisons on the internet (maybe even seen a George Raft movie). You only work in one.
Yep, those folks in Louisiana sure know how to run a prison:
In New Orleans, Political Brawl Over Police, Jail - ABC News
Keep up the good work!
Maybe I am not understanding the concept of State Run Prisons, are you saying that the county run jails are State Run Prisons? It just doesn't make sense, how can they be both? How can a prison in LA cost of an inmate/day be reported by the state, and yet there is money being spent, from a country budget to run that counties jail? Are you saying that in order to determine the cost you must add the two? I hope not, for if so, you really don't understand the difference between jail and prison, but then again, based on your post, I guess you don't.
Then theres this...Louisiana...such a nice place to be.
Hurricane Katrina Firearms Confiscation - YouTube
Hurricane Katrina Firearms Confiscation - YouTube
Don't know how Katrina effected the State Prisons, but I do know how great a place a Washington State prison is:
Walla Walla Prison Riot Washington State Penetentiary - YouTube
Yes I know, shitty quality. But the only way to get the video was to capture my screen using a shitty program... here is the original though: GeoVario LLC - Web Access ...
Walla Walla Prison Riot Washington State Penetentiary - YouTube - Cached.Play Video
As you may not understand this is about the cost of prisons, that is the cost to the tax payers, the cost in Washington State, with all the frills they offer criminals-I'm surprised there was a riot in their prison system, maybe they weren't getting enough tax payer provided classes, or their movies weren't to their [the scumbag inmates] liking.
The weirdest thing about this video, they call this a riot?
Walla Walla Prison Riot Washington State Penetentiary - YouTube
Yes I know, shitty quality. But the only way to get the video was to capture my screen using a shitty program... here is the original though: GeoVario LLC - Web Access ...
Walla Walla Prison Riot Washington State Penetentiary - YouTube - Cached.Play Video
As you may not understand this is about the cost of prisons, that is the cost to the tax payers, the cost in Washington State, with all the frills they offer criminals-I'm surprised there was a riot in their prison system, maybe they weren't getting enough tax payer provided classes, or their movies weren't to their [the scumbag inmates] liking.
The weirdest thing about this video, they call this a riot?
Last edited:
I was just looking up what it cost to keep one scumbag in prison in New York, answer: $32,000/year! You would think based on some of the experts on this board, their [New Yorks Prisons] would be the best run, safest etc., but "it just aint so Joe".
Attica, one of New Yorks prisons had a little riot a few years ago, this is what happend: When the uprising was over, at least 39 people were dead, including ten correctional officers and civilian employees.
Attica, one of New Yorks prisons had a little riot a few years ago, this is what happend: When the uprising was over, at least 39 people were dead, including ten correctional officers and civilian employees.
Wow, New Mexico's cost per scum bag per year is even higher than New York's!! They must have the best run, safest prisons in the U.S., but wait, they don't! Look at what happend a few years ago:Jump to: navigation, search
Penitentiary of New Mexico Riot of 1980
Location
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Date
February 2–3, 1980 (MDT)
Attack type
Rioting
Deaths
33
Injured (non-fatal)
200+
The Penitentiary of New Mexico Prison Riot, which took place on February 2 and 3, 1980, in the state's maximum security prison south of Santa Fe, was one of the most violent prison riots in the history of the American correctional system: 33 inmates died and more than 200 inmates were treated for injuries.[1] None of the 12 officers taken hostage were killed, but seven were treated for injuries caused by beatings and rapes.[2][page needed] This was the third major riot at the NM State Penitentiary, the first occurring on 19 July 1922[3] and the second on 15 June 1953.[4]
Author Roger Morris suggests the death toll may have been higher, as a number of bodies were incinerated or dismembered during the course of the mayhem.[5]
****According to the DOC of New Mexico's web page, it cost $39,000/year to keep one scum bag in prison in their state!!!
I guess the Great State of LA is looking better and better all the time! Less than 1/2 the cost, they sure have some smart people running the prisons in LA, or some really stupid fools running them in other places. But I could be wrong-maybe the Tax Payers like paying for all the special luxury items for scumbag criminals, not to mention, paying for the clean ups and fixes after the riots in the expensive prisons. I may be alone here, but really I don't think I am, my guess is most TAX PAYERS do not want their Tax money spent like this.
Penitentiary of New Mexico Riot of 1980
Location
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Date
February 2–3, 1980 (MDT)
Attack type
Rioting
Deaths
33
Injured (non-fatal)
200+
The Penitentiary of New Mexico Prison Riot, which took place on February 2 and 3, 1980, in the state's maximum security prison south of Santa Fe, was one of the most violent prison riots in the history of the American correctional system: 33 inmates died and more than 200 inmates were treated for injuries.[1] None of the 12 officers taken hostage were killed, but seven were treated for injuries caused by beatings and rapes.[2][page needed] This was the third major riot at the NM State Penitentiary, the first occurring on 19 July 1922[3] and the second on 15 June 1953.[4]
Author Roger Morris suggests the death toll may have been higher, as a number of bodies were incinerated or dismembered during the course of the mayhem.[5]
****According to the DOC of New Mexico's web page, it cost $39,000/year to keep one scum bag in prison in their state!!!
I guess the Great State of LA is looking better and better all the time! Less than 1/2 the cost, they sure have some smart people running the prisons in LA, or some really stupid fools running them in other places. But I could be wrong-maybe the Tax Payers like paying for all the special luxury items for scumbag criminals, not to mention, paying for the clean ups and fixes after the riots in the expensive prisons. I may be alone here, but really I don't think I am, my guess is most TAX PAYERS do not want their Tax money spent like this.
