Rifle Scopes Mount for a TRG42

[Ranger822]

Am trying to decide on a good scope mount setup for my TRG42 in 7mm Rem Mag. I want to get the most out of my cartridge. I have narrowed down my scope choices to the Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56m PMII and the Premier Reticles 5-25x56mm, both with 34mm tube. According to the specs the S&B has 26mrad of elevation and the Premier has 30mrad if elevation. I would like to optimize so something with at least 35MOA to 45MOA should suffice. I would like to have the option to mount backup iron sights. Money isn't a concern. I plan to reload and am looking at various combination to maximize range. Oh, and it would be great to have a very stable but possibly quick release if possible but I can carry a tool to detach a busted/non-functional scope.

The question is what scope mount will work out best?

Been considering:

Sako 34mm 3ring mount with 30MOA and a mirage strap hook - mounts to the dovetail

Badger Pic rail 20MOA + EuroOptic AWP 8110-34 20MOA

Spuhr ST-4801 – TRG 34mm 13MIL/44.4 MOA

Any other options worth considering? Comments and input? Still need to determine how the Sako backup iron sights attach; dovetail or with PIc rail - that would also help.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Steiner and Spuhr have been bombproof for me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[sakobob]

defiantly the spuhr have one on my 42 with the s&b and not one issue.
as far as the iron back up's you will need a tool to remove any of the other choices,
and the factory back up's mount on the dove tail that the spuhr mounts to.
the only tool you need to remove it is a small torx wrench,it's a prety sweet

 

[MJY65]

I'm very happy with my Near rail and Seekins rings. Lots of angle and height combinations to get it just where you want it.

 

[Ranger822]

thanks all. What I am going to do is provide a bit more of the nuts and bolts calculations. I went over at gundata.org and plugged in the bullet of choice and then some general parameters.

I am planning on using the Hornady 162grn A-max with a BC of .625
Altitude I am shooting will be 6500ft, 59 degrees, 20% humidity, at 29.92. I also ran sea level with 70% relative humidity and 59 degrees just to see what my rifle and scope would do down there. Planning for a max range at or about the transition from supersonic. Then running the calculation and extracting the values from the table. I ran it at a max range of 2000 yards at 100 yards intervals. I then pulled the nearest 100 yard interval where the bullet is at or about supersonic. Taking the bullet drop I think coverted to mrad/MOA to then calculate what each of my chosen scopes would need for a base to make up for their lack of elevation - and I planned to split the max elevation in half.

7mm = .284 X Hornady 162grn A-Max .625
2000 yards @ 1157Fps - for 6500ft - drop of 1542 inches equates to 21.4 mrad = 73.5MOA
1600 yards @ 1142fps - for sea level - drop of 990 inches equates to 17.1 mrad = 58MOA

Premier Reticles 103 MOA/2 = 51.5MOA
Schmidt&Bender 89MOA/2 = 44.5MOA


7mm Rem Mag @ max range
- sea level, max range = 1600 yards, need 58MOA
- 6500ft, max range = 2000 yards, need 73.5MOA

Based on max MOA of 74MOA -
Premier Reticles will require a 23MOA base
Schmidt&Bender will require a 30 MOA base

So it is pretty clear that a good base for either scope would be around 30 MOA. The two possible paths:


Path 1: Keep Badger 20MOA Picatinny Rail and add at least 10MOA with some ring/mount combo


Path 2: Remove the Badger 20MOA Picatinny Rail and start fresh with some ring/mount combo using the naked rail on the Sako TRG42 or mount a different PIC rail with some ring/mount combo.

If anyone sees some glaring errors please let me know. There are certainly some minor details but overall I want to just validate the process I am using to get to a rational solution.

Next up will be to compare some various solutions and how they address the requirments. In general my impression at this point is both my chosen scopes seem to have sufficient elevation (not even considering wingage but they are equal anyway) with an appropriate base. So, while the process may seem somewhat esoteric, it helps me to run thru the process to ensure I understand and don't miss something in my decision making for a scope/mount combination.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Don't worry about backup irons, get a 45. I would recommend either the Badger 35 moa base and standard rings or the Spuhr 13mil, I am in the market for a mount for a TRG-22 with a S&B 5-25 and those are the choices I have narrowed it to. If you went with a Spuhr you could go with a backup red dot and not concern yourself with the option of a quick detach mount. I honestly think that concerning yourself with quick detach optics to go to irons on a precision rifle is to consider a situation that will not occur within your mission parameters. If its not "mission critical", don't worry about it.

 

[Kreeper]

Sako 34mm 3ring mount with .05 T0 35MOA BASE.

 

[Ranger822]

I am going to add the obvious, which I failed to specify earlier; I want to be able to mount a mirage strap. Those not familiar with the TRG may not realize the mirage strap can be attached in several different ways using the Sako accessories:

1. attached to Sako 3 ring base ==> match/mirage band forward match sight screw
2. attached to Sako 3 ring base ==> front backup iron sight screw
3. attached to Sako 3 ring base ==> muzzle brake guide screw

Spuhr's TRG mount such at ST4801 has an optional accessory for around $30 that screws onto the mount and provides an attachment point for the rear part of the mirage strap.

I have read that Near also has an option for his Sako base that allows for a Mirage strap attachment.

Something else worth noting is that the Sako rear backup iron sight only attaches to the dovetail - and not the Pic rail. So, if backup iron sights are used the Pic rail has got to go too.

There are some good arguments against bothering with iron sights. However, my own experience with using scopes in the winter time has exposed some limitations to otherwise well functional scopes and the only thing that will suffice is a good old iron sight. Getting a good sidearm is sound advice and I already have one.

 

[Kreeper]

Nightforce will do the job. It withstands 35 below all day.. Read some reviews. It beat s&b in an extreme weather stress test..

 

[Ranger822]

YOu are right NF has some pretty impressive statistics when it comes to testing. Actually, the Premier and S&B have some respectable performance - perhaps not quite up with NF, but I will likely freeze to death before the NF craps out on me, hehehe.

Really, the sort of conditions I experienced aren't necessarily super cold, but rather, say you are in a pretty nasty snow storm - blowing snow, drifts forming - etc. This is when the scope starts getting fussy with being obscured with white stuff - if I am hanging out in the snow, waiting for the moment of truth - it can get a little inconvenient to have to constantly clean that stuff off. If the storm is especially bad - visibility is often limited - here is a point where may the optics aren't going to cut it for me. So, take off the optics, mount up the iron sights - can see pretty good out as far as the weather will allow - and can also engage targets. That is perhaps the scenario I am presenting. It isn't very often, but then again, how often do optics fail anyway?

One of the great things about the backup iron sights is the front sight can be in place without too much fuss. The rear sight can be stored in the cheek rest compartment. If you have one of Terje's nifty quick adjustment mods - you can remove the rear sight from its compartment on the inside of the cheekrest - remove your optics, place the iron sight, tighten it up and be up and ready in just a few minutes as most. All you really need is a tool for loosening the scope mount (two screws), tightening up the iron sight and have a bag to stash your optics.

 

[Ranger822]

Am going to eliminate the quick-release requirement - just can't find anything good about a genuine "quick release" that is going to provide the sort of accuracy in the 1000-2000 yards range. Instead, I want to try to find something that is "easy" to dismount with a simple tool. Lowlight posted up a nice video on one example of the removal of a primary optic and its replacement with a backup. Something in that genre is yet another option to consider.

Here are the options thus far broken into two main paths:

A)Pitch the 20MOA Pic Rail and start fresh:

1) Sako 34mm 3-ring mount with 30MOA and a mirage strap hook - mounts to the dovetail - Pros: no Pic rail needed, has mirage strap attachment built in, should be very stable, allows use of rear backup iron sight when 3 ring mount is removed. Cons: limited option to add off-angle backup optics, lowest elevation - 74MOA for S&B and 81 MOA for Premier, require removal of current 20MOA pic rail that is screwed and glued on, will require tools to remove in an emergency

2) Spuhr ST-4801 – TRG 34mm 13MIL/44.4 MOA - Pros: no pic rail needed, has option for mirage strap hook, should be very stable, maximizes elevation potential, provides options for mounting accessories/backup optics, allows use of rear backup iron sight when 3 ring mount is removed. Cons: will require removal of current 20MOA pic rail that is screwed and glued on, will require tools to remove in an emergency, need to buy and install mirage strap attachment hook on Spuhr mount.

3) Near Scope Base 25MOA or 45 MOA + Near Alpha Mount - Pros: Can option for mirage strap hook, should be very stable, option to maximize elevation potential. Cons: will require removal of current 20MOA pic rail that is screwed and glued on, will require tools to remove in an emergency, scope base won't allow use of Sako emergency iron site. ELIMINATED

4) Near Scope Base 25MOA/45MOA + Near Scope Rings - Pros: Option to maximize elevation potential. Cons: will require removal of current 20MOA pic rail that is screwed and glued on, will require tools to remove in an emergency, scope base won't allow use of Sako emergency iron site, no option for a mirage strap attachment point. ELIMINATED

B) Keep the 20MOA Pic Rail and add to it:

1) Badger Pic rail 20MOA + EuroOptic AWP 8110-34 20MOA - Pros: quick release option, doesn't require removal of current 20MOA pic rail that is screwed and glued on, provides 40MOA of elevation, has mounting surfaces for accessories/backup optics. Cons: maybe some stability issues with dual lever quick release, can't use backup rear iron sight. ELIMINATED

2) Badger Pic rail 20MOA + LaRue Tactical 20 MOA PSR Scope Mount QD, LT112, double - Pros: quick release option, doesn't require removal of current 20MOA pic rail that is screwed and glued on, provides 40MOA of elevation. Cons: maybe some stability issues with dual lever quick release, can't use backup rear iron sight, no option for a mirage strap attachment point. ELIMINATED

3) Badger Pic rail 20MOA + Sako Quick MOunt with OPtilock Rings - Pros: quick release option, doesn't require removal of current 20MOA pic rail that is screwed and glued on. Cons: maybe some stability issues with dual lever quick release, only provides 20MOA of elevation, can't use backup rear iron sight, no option for a mirage strap attachment point. ELIMINATED

4) Badger Pic rail 20MOA + Near Rings w/Pic mount - Pros: Doesn't require removal of current 20MOA pic rail that is screwed and glued on. Cons: Only provides 20MOA of elevation, can't use backup rear iron sight, no option for a mirage strap attachment point. ELIMINATED

5) Badger Pic rail 20MOA + Near Alpha Mount - Pros: Doesn't require removal of current 20MOA pic rail that is screwed and glued on. Cons: Only provides 20MOA of elevation, can't use backup rear iron sight, no option for a mirage strap attachment point. ELIMINATED

In considering Path B - the retention of the existing Pic rail for the most part presents two things which serve to eliminate from my list of potentials; 1) no attachment for a mirage strap 2) inability to attach the Sako backup rear iron sight. While there are good arguments for not using the Sako iron sight, I have decided for my personal use I would prefer to retain the option of having them if I want. I also eliminated the quick release candidates because I really didn't think their was a lack of documentation indicating they were good choices for truly long distance shooting, where such devices, perhaps designed for the assault rifle lines and shorter distance where less stability/reproducibility of shots is perhaps less critical. Reducing the choices to Path A - removal of the existing Pic Rail presents with two really good candidates; Sako 3-ring scope and the Spuhr ST4801. I am going to do some additional research on these two and try find some criteria to further help distinguish one choice from another.

If someone has other choices that haven't been considered - please let me know - I will edit the above list with the relevant info.