Virgin brass versus fire formed brass

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Since I'm relatively new at this caliber I'm checking out everything. This morning I noticed that my fire formed brass was right on 100 yard zero as expected. The next lot I shot was virgin brass that I did run through a FL sizer die as was the fire formed brass. However, the virgin brass on average was shooting .2 mils low at 100 yards. I was shooting .300 H&H. Each lot of brass was 20 rounds each. Each lot on average contained 67.6 grains H4831. All the brass was from the same manufacturer out of the same bag. Bullet was 190 SMK HPBT. I wasn't expecting that sort of result. All the bullshit I read on the "Internet" told me not to expect much difference if at all. They can't post anything on the Internet that isn't true. :) Uhhh, Bonjour!!!
 
Neck tension. Did you anneal the 1x fired? Otherwise you have the work hardened necks presenting a possibility.
Another possibility is the subconscious golem effect where you might have thought it would perform differently and thus it did.
 
Sized virgin brass has less volume then once fired, hence higher pressure. Higher pressure means higher velocity and shorter barrel time. Shorter barrel time means less muzzle rise yielding a lower POI. Or maybe something else.

OFG
 
Sized virgin brass has less volume then once fired, hence higher pressure. Higher pressure means higher velocity and shorter barrel time. Shorter barrel time means less muzzle rise yielding a lower POI. Or maybe something else.

OFG

Have you actually chrono'd the differences between unfired and once fired brass? I'm curious how much different it really is.

Edit: Also how different is the volume? I have a unfried and fired 300 win mag case, but I won't be home for a week to measure.
 
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Fire formed h20 overflow case capacity = 90.2 gr. (chronograph measured @2820 fps and edited Quickload to match case capacity to equal same fps)
Virgin brass h20 overflow case capacity = 85.8 gr. (no chronograph but estimated @2900 fps per Quickload adjusted for h20 case capacity).

I'll have to chronograph virgin brass another time. I didn't have a chronograph this morning with me.
 
Fire formed h20 overflow case capacity = 90.2 gr. (chronograph measured @2820 fps and edited Quickload to match case capacity to equal same fps)
Virgin brass h20 overflow case capacity = 85.8 gr. (no chronograph but estimated @2900 fps per Quickload adjusted for h20 case capacity).

I'll have to chronograph virgin brass another time. I didn't have a chronograph this morning with me.

I'd be really curious to know. Thats interesting info...
 
Conjecture:
Fire formed, not annealed, has greater holding strength on the bullet. Consequently, greater pressure buildup in case before releasing bullet.
Considering the powder burn in the barrel is approximately the same, that initial, greater acceleration due to higher pressure makes all the difference.

Considering the powder amount is the same, the volume differences may have only negligible effect on pressure buildup due to natural expansion of the case on ignition.

Sample experiment to prove hypothesis:
4-6 Virgin Brass with 67.6 gr powder
4-6 1x fired Brass with 67.6 gr powder
4-6 fired, annealed Brass with 67.6 gr powder

Chrono MV for all, determine averages, post results.
 
That's a lot of work. I'm going to just offset the zero adjustment. We're only talking about a .75 inch or .2 mils at 100 yards. Or better, just reduce the load on new brass.
 
Since I'm relatively new at this caliber I'm checking out everything. This morning I noticed that my fire formed brass was right on 100 yard zero as expected. The next lot I shot was virgin brass that I did run through a FL sizer die as was the fire formed brass. However, the virgin brass on average was shooting .2 mils low at 100 yards. I was shooting .300 H&H. Each lot of brass was 20 rounds each. Each lot on average contained 67.6 grains H4831. All the brass was from the same manufacturer out of the same bag. Bullet was 190 SMK HPBT. I wasn't expecting that sort of result. All the bullshit I read on the "Internet" told me not to expect much difference if at all. They can't post anything on the Internet that isn't true. :) Uhhh, Bonjour!!!

I don't know you, and I don't know your level of reloading experience, so please don't take any offense. What I observed so far--you say one batch was .2mil low. If I remember right, .2mil at 100 yd is about .73". If you are noticing that a group of 20 rounds averages .73" lower than another group, you are a very good shot. I sort my LC11 brass in 0.1gn lots. You say that "on average" each round held 67.6 grains H4831. If I may ask, how are you measuring your powder. I used to measure mine to 0.1gn on a Chargemaster, but I recently switched to a Sartorius GD503 and now measure to a single kernel of Varget. (scale is accurate to 0.005gn with no drift)http://www.scalesgalore.com/sartorius_GD503_NTEP.cfm?this_selected_product_id=32931 . Do you run ladder tests? The barrel flexes each time you shoot and depending upon the interior ballistics, the bullet exits the barrel when it is effectively pointing in different directions. This can have a large effect on the elevation of the POI. 100yd is pretty close to have much of a drop due to velocity. Have you tried at 300-600yd. Do you sort your bullets by bearing length? I currently sort Ogive to base in .001" lots using a Sinclair Bullet Comparator Stand; however, I found something on David Tubb's site that I can use in conjunction with this stand BSC insert .224 cal - BSC by Superior Shooting Systems to sort Ogive to boattail, since that is the only way you can measure bearing length. I went through 1000 77gn SMK HPBT bullets and found they varied in Ogive to base length by .014" (.483 to .496") Do you chrono your rounds during load development? I moved up from a Competition Electronics ProChrono to an Oehler 35P because I was tired of not trusting the number I was getting (repeated the same number, or skipped)http://www.oehler-research.com/model35.html. The fireformed brass COULD have a larger volume, which you can measure by plugging the flashhole Primer Pocket Plugs and filling them with water using a syringe, although I doubt that would help if you are not precisely measuring the amount of powder. I assume you are trimming both the fireformed brass and the virgin brass. Are you doing anything differently between the two such as trimming the flashhole, normalizing primer pockets, skimming/turning necks? I doubt the brass is work hardened in one firing. Most people go 3-4 firings between annealings; however, the best I have seen is from Giraud Tool Company, New Page 1 . Are you shooting the two groups round-robin, or at least letting the barrel cool between groups. As the barrel heats up, it will shoot differently. Hope this helps.
 
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