Interesting short barrel .260 findings...

bm11

Gunny Sergeant
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Minuteman
Jun 18, 2010
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I'm posting this uo because I see most people running rather long barrels on their 6.5's, and I believe that most don't know how much velocity you can get out of a shorter barrel. I did the long barrel thing before, had a 28" .243 barrel spun up for my AX, but I really hated it. I shoot suppressed 99.9% of the time, and the added length makes for a very long rifle that is very difficult to shoot any way but prone. So I switched to a 22" .260 barrel, far shorter than the average 26"-28" I see on most, and I don't think I am down much on velocity.

The bullet I chose to work with is the Berger 140 grain Hybrid. It has the highest BC in its class, and AX mags have plenty of length to run long bullets. And they shoot real well out of this 8 twist, so I see no reason to run anything else.

During load development I found superb accuracy with H4350, pushing the bullets to the low 2700 fps range. Experimenting with RL-17, I found that I could push the bullet up into the low 2800 fps range, showing zero pressure and still shooting very well. I set out to test both rounds at range and made an interesting discovery.

Due to an embarrassing reloading error which I discovered when my come ups were almost 2 mils less than projected at 940 yards, I discovered that H4895 can produce some insane velocities out of a 22" barrel. I was in a rush hand loading before going to a party and mistakenly loaded H4895 into my Chargemaster when I intended to load H4350. Similar label and not paying enough attention. If I had caught it I would have pulled the bullets, but I didn't realize what had happened until the velocity showed up down range.

Yesterday I brought the chrono to the range and confirmed my findings. Average velocity for 5 rounds was 2913, with an extreme spread of 19. Charge weight used was 42.0 grains of H4895. Accuracy was marginal with a 5 shot group of .652" (good loads showed in the .3's or better with this barrel,) and pressure was about max, but I figured it was worth sharing, as I believe these velocities are somewhat unheard of with a 22" barrel shooting 140's. Might be worth exploring further for some of you velocity whores!

-Bob
 
Re: Interesting short barrel .260 findings...

What chrono did you use? 2900 out of a 22" barrel sounds almost too good to be true. Best I managed was low 2800's with H4350 and 139 scenars out of my Gap 22" 260 I had awhile back.
 
Re: Interesting short barrel .260 findings...

Wow, that is incredible velocity. It seems like all other things being equal, swapping H4895 in for H4350 would be disastrous.

My 21.5 (recoil lug to crown) GAP 260 hits 2800fps with a 140 hornady with 43.6gr H4350. I'll have to give H4895 a whirl, but you can bet your ass I'll start much lower than 42gr. More like 37 or 38gr.
 
Re: Interesting short barrel .260 findings...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What chrono did you use? 2900 out of a 22" barrel sounds almost too good to be true. Best I managed was low 2800's with H4350 and 139 scenars out of my Gap 22" 260 I had awhile back. </div></div>Cheap Shooting Crony, and I wouldn't believe it if the come ups didn't match, but they did. Again- I found out my error when my come ups were almost 2 mils less at 940 yards. I adjusted the velocity in shooter until the solution matched, and the velocity was 2950 in shooter. The chrono confirmed it at 2915.

There was no error in ranging either as the target was pinged no less than 5 times with my Swaro rangefinder and the come ups matched Shooter's solution with my RL-17 load going a known confirmed velocity of 2800 fps.

And I am not surprised that it is that much faster than your load in a 22" .260 using 4350. The difference is 4895, and a pretty high dose of it to boot. I couldn't find any data in my reloading books but I would guess I was 2-3 grains over max, maybe more. Remember too I am using a long seating depth afforded by AX mags, base to ogive of 2.262" which off the top of my head is a COAL of somewhere around 2.92-2.95". Pressure would be much higher using that much powder at a length of 2.8".
 
Re: Interesting short barrel .260 findings...

Hodgdon doesn't provide load data for the 140 Berger, but the max charge for H4895 behind a 142 SMK is 36.2gr at a COAL of 2.780". For reference, 42gr of H4895 is a maximum load for the 6.5 Rem Mag with a 140gr bullet.

It'd be fascinating to throw your load data into Quickload at whatever COAL you are using. Betcha the peak pressure is kinda scary.
 
Re: Interesting short barrel .260 findings...

Gotcha. Didn't think that load was that much over book....sounds like a diaster waiting to happen.....
 
Re: Interesting short barrel .260 findings...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It'd be fascinating to throw your load data into Quickload at whatever COAL you are using. Betcha the peak pressure is kinda scary. </div></div>Bet you are right! Wouldn't want to run this one on a hot day.

Not using this load either, it was an accident and I don't plan on pursing it further as the accuracy with 4350 is much better (I have shot multiple 5 shot groups in the .1's, yesterday's group during testing was .242".) More than anything I was testing to see the results, and it was interesting to note the insane velocity. I believe the load would be too risky on a hot day and too hard on expensive Lapua brass, so I am not pursuing it further, rather I am publishing the results so if anyone wanted to experiment they might find a safe load that shot well at a higher velocity than H4350. I don't recall reading about anyone trying this powder in a .260.

CLIFFS NOTES FOR ANYONE FOLLOWING THIS THREAD: 42 GRAINS OF H4895 IS NOT A SAFE LOAD TO TRY WITHOUT VERY CAREFULLY WORKING A LONG WAY UP TO IT!!!
 
Re: Interesting short barrel .260 findings...

Interesting. Am about to pick up a .260 and most seemed to suggest the optimal barrel length was 26 inches to use out beyond 1k. Def interested in hearing what others have found because if I can get away with a shorter barrel I'm all for that.
 
Re: Interesting short barrel .260 findings...

I found switching from 4350 to Varget boosted my velocity in a short 6.5x47. My Varget load was actually faster in the 22" than 4350 before the barrel was chopped down from 27".

I've heard a few guys running 4895 in .260, but usually they were hunting loads.

Thanks for sharing. Interesting info! Right now I'm shooting a mild load in a 25" .260 that I sometimes regret not running at 22". If I ever get enough cash saved up for an AI, I'm going to consider 22".
 
Any current dope for the short barrels? I am about to cut mine down.

I have a obermeyer tight bore .260 running 139g Lupua Scenars with 44.1g of H4350 in a 25" barrel. That gets me 2880fps her at sea level. Any guesses what it'd do with a 22" barrel?
 
Interesting that you shot that load not once, but twice, and survived.
QL shows chamber pressure of 82424 PSI and MV of 2958 for that load.
Running it with H4350, the pressure drops to 60402 and MV 2700.
I'd examine your bolt for signs of fatigue.

Joe
 
Interesting that you shot that load not once, but twice, and survived.
QL shows chamber pressure of 82424 PSI and MV of 2958 for that load.
Running it with H4350, the pressure drops to 60402 and MV 2700.
I'd examine your bolt for signs of fatigue.

Joe

I ran it in quickload as well and it is amazing that the rifle held together.
 
What would you look for, and how?

I once got 2855fps out of a 168gr 7-08 with 46.0 Varget. Don't try that at home, folks.

I'd examine the lugs for signs of material deformation.
Looking at the lockup surfaces, are they square to the bolt axis?
I'd check the assembly with a no go gage.
I'd check the brass over pretty good, too.

As damoncali alluded to with the "proof round" reference, recommended pressures have a decent margin of safety, but repeatedly subjecting the barreled action to those kind of pressures could fatigue something. My guess is the lockup lugs on the bolt or the mating area in the receiver would give up first.

It's good to know that I'm probably not gonna grenade my rifles if I load up to recommended max, though, thanks to the OP for doing the testing :)

Joe

*edit* 7-08 + 46 Varget + 168 SMK (I guessed) = 91 kpsi.
Yikes.
 
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here what I got when I ran it through quickload

Screen+Shot+2013-09-01+at+3.19.34+PM.png
 

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here what I got when I ran it through quickload

Screen+Shot+2013-09-01+at+2.25.18+PM.png

Set the oal to 2.95 and see how much the pressure drops. Also your barrel length is 26 not 22. Wont affect preasure but it makes velocity a lot higher.

OP, do you know your 1x fired case capacity, pre resizing? You could be a grain or two more than what the quickload default is, which would lower pressure a good bit.
 
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I blew a primer with a standard 4350 load on the third firing of Lapua brass (the same brass that shot the 4895,) so I would definitely say this load is WAY too hot.
 
Any current dope for the short barrels? I am about to cut mine down.

I have a obermeyer tight bore .260 running 139g Lupua Scenars with 44.1g of H4350 in a 25" barrel. That gets me 2880fps her at sea level. Any guesses what it'd do with a 22" barrel?

My rifle is a Weatherby Vanguard action, Manners T4 with an Obermeyer 5R tight bore finished at 22 inches and gets 2700 fps with 140 Amax @ 42 grains of H4350. I don't remember the oal, but its about .02 shorter than touching the front of my AICS magazines.

I start getting flat primers and shitty groups at 42.6 grains and trouble extracting/blowing out primers about 43.2.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc277/ken_556/DSC_0555_zpsb1171ca6.jpg
 
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I got my barrel an Obermeyer tight bore 6.5 1/8.4 cut from 25" (running 2880 with 44.1g h4350) to 22" it is now running 2830 with 43.5gr h4350, 2844 with 43.8gr h4350, 2854 w/ 44.1gr h4350, 2861 w/ 44.3gr of h4350. I am going to try 43.2gr of h4350 to see if it groups good and is still over 2800. The 44.1gr group shot one hole 5 round groups and 1.4" @ 300yards. The 43.8gr load shot good but not as good as the 44.1gr which was my previous load. All powder loads were sub MOA. All things considered I wished I would have went shorter.

The bullet is 139 scenars
The brass is Remington
The primers are Federal
 
This is relevant to my interest. LRI group buy is currently building(blueprint receiver, chamber, fluting bolt...) my Remy 700 in 260 remington. I had them cut the Bartlein barrel to 22" + thread barrel end in my build as well. I chose it because of the OAL of the rifle and I will be shooting a can with it as soon as it it available. Waiting the 30 cal version of the Saker when it comes out.

I knew I would loose a little velocity over 26" barrel, but it was a compromise I'm willing to live with.