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Advice on my first run and gun course.

Tahoe333

Tahoe333

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 4, 2012
372
17
55
Northern Utah
#1
October I am taking my first run and gun firearm class, the costa ludas carbine course.
Would it be lame to run the course wearing a full kitted out chest rig? I am thinking that it would it be beneficial to run the course the way I would most likely be dressed in a emergency situation at home wearing cargo pants and a untucked tee shirt with the magazines in the side pockets? I live in san francisco so wearing a holster for everyday life would be out of the question. I do have a decent belt rig and a SHTF chest rig that I could wear. It would be great to finally run my "world has ended" chest rig through its paces but I really dont want to look like a douce bag tacti-cool mall ninja in front of everyone.

Costa ludas course - Carbine Employment 01 (CE 01)




 
#3
Either train to fight, or worry about how you look. Unless your instructor has a problem with your kit hampering your training, I'd learn to use my rig.
 
#4
jbjh said:
Either train to fight, or worry about how you look. Unless your instructor has a problem with your kit hampering your training, I'd learn to use my rig.
Click to expand...

Although I have yet to go to a course, (I am signed up for two at the moment and missed the vickers course I was signed up for this summer), I would have to mirror this statement. If you aren't training with the rig, and are worried about how it will look at a course, why do you even have it? If its what you plan to use then train with it and forget everyone else. If you don't think it practical and usable then dump it and move to something you see optimal. I dumped what I thought would work and moved to a much more simple and conservative set up.
 
#5
VJJPunisher said:
I'd make sure there are some shurikens on there somewhere, and a nunchuck pouch just to be safe
Click to expand...

Always good advice.

Also, whats with the handgun in the chest rig and then a handgun on your belt. Dual wielding?

If you put them both together sans the 2nd handgun in the chest rig, I count 8 rifle mags plus 1 in the rifle and 4 pistol mags plus 1 in the pistol. This is ridiculous extra weight and unless you were required to have this many mags on you at a time, I'd trim it to 4 rifle and 2 pistol; if you end up somewhere that you need more than that as a load-out, you're in the wrong place.

That knife either needs to go on a belt or get a cheaper CRKT (so when you lose it you don't care) to clip on somewhere instead of your Rambo mount that will end up with you either loosing the knife when going prone or have you accidentally stab yourself.

Regardless of what you go, get rid of the handgun in the chest rig. Even if you don't wear the belt, get a sturdy belt like a Wilderness or OSOE and mount your holster there instead of in the rig that will have a clumsy slow draw and takes up real estate or go the modular warbelt route. Also get a half-ass decent small IFAK; I see you have a tourniquet which is good but if this is for training how you fight, you're going to want a basic (see: know how to use it all and don't get overly fancy) IFAK that is mounted somewhere accessible by both of your hands. Nothing should be in your way on a draw stroke to your handgun - I see your tourniquet would get in the way and needs to be moved.

TL;DR - Get rid of your chest pistol mount, get rid of all those excess mags and weight, get rid of that knife, get a different belt setup, get an IFAK, move your tourniquet. Oh, and get some shurikens.
 
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#7
Be sure to bring extra parts to keep in your truck or on-site. Don't be the guy that stops the course or gets left behind because you have to unfuck your weapon and don't have the parts.

If you have a second full rifle, bring it just in case. Bring extra firing pins, an extra complete bolt carrier group, cleaning kit, spare magazines and whatever you have to remove stuck cases. Don't forget about batteries and bring much more ammo than the course requires.

Also, bring something to write shit down with incase you have questions or need to remember something important from any kind of before/after brief.

And don't worry about your gear layout if its done correctly. That's the key, not how much or what you have, but when people see it and evaluate it, if it makes sense it works. Period. Plus, there is a 180% chance that at a Costa class, you will have someone in full Multicam BDUs, Multicam dipped rifle, Multicam boots, Multicam gloves, Multicam underwear there.
 
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#8
TheGerman said:
Be sure to bring extra parts to keep in your truck or on-site. Don't be the guy that stops the course or gets left behind because you have to unfuck your weapon and don't have the parts.

If you have a second full rifle, bring it just in case. Bring extra firing pins, an extra complete bolt carrier group, cleaning kit, spare magazines and whatever you have to remove stuck cases. Don't forget about batteries and bring much more ammo than the course requires.

Also, bring something to write shit down with incase you have questions or need to remember something important from any kind of before/after brief.

And don't worry about your gear layout if its done correctly. That's the key, not how much or what you have, but when people see it and evaluate it, if it makes sense it works. Period. Plus, there is a 180% chance that at a Costa class, you will have someone in full Multicam BDUs, Multicam dipped rifle, Multicam boots, Multicam gloves, Multicam underwear there.
Click to expand...

I don't usually wear condoms, but when I do, they're Multicam.
 
#10
When I did my first carbine/pistol class I figured out real quick what gear I did or didn’t need and where I wanted it on my body (this includes the “kit” on the carbine). By the third day I was set up a lot different than the first. The act of “running and gunning” will sort out how you want to be set up real fast.

Bring everything you have (within reason) and be ready to make adjustments on the fly.
 
#11
German - thanks for the advice.
i wasnt planning on running both the belt and the chest rig at the same time. the belt rig is waiting on a dark angel ifak before i lock in the placement of the pouches. The reason I put the p220 inside the chest rig mag-pouch was to provide a "grab and go" option in case of a earthquake riot. Regarding The chest rig, I will remove the knife on the chest area. I was under the assumption that you should always have a three knife system, a fixed blade, a folder, and a multi tool?
 
#12
Recommended Equipment

Students provide their own ammo: 1800rds Minimum, and 100 rounds of Handgun ammo

Hardware - A functional and practical carbine or battle rifle chambered in 5.56x45, 5.45x39, 300 Blackout, 7.62x39, 7.62x51. If available, a spare weapon system is also an excellent idea. A cleaning kit and tools that are compatible with the weapon system(s) in question is also a must. Each student should have a minimum of 5 working magazines.
•Note pad, and pen/pencil
•Clothing suited to strenuous activity as well as being seasonally appropriate
•Rain gear / cold weather gear (seasonal)
•Ear pro (electronic preferred) / Eye pro
•Baseball style hat recommended
•Proper belt to support equipment
•Carbine magazine pouches, Battle belt, or Chest rig
•Tools that work on your weapon
•Weapons lube
•Water hydrating device
•Knee and elbow pads (optional)
•Gloves (optional)
•An open mind

I would have a durable range bag with power bars, water and a clipboard.
A belt with pistol and mag holsters.
Rifle mags, in the hip pocket if no recommendation from the instructor. That sort of gear can be seen first and bought later. You can certainly bring what you already have.
I think first instruction might be best with a minimum of gear on.
 
#13
Do you set up your chest rig for "general purpose" and add as needed? Or do you set it up for the SHTF end of world senerio and store it in the closet?

My intention was to use the belt rig for general protection (catching the burglar in our garage, he got 8 years) and set up the chest rig for a major earthquake disaster. If San Francisco has a major earthquake i predict it would be similar to a New Orleans/Katrina event that had roaming gangs killing and raping and Blackwater roaming the streets. Our previous mayor stated that we should plan on being without any government services for 96 hours, and I tend to agree with him. Our house is on bedrock so I am hopeful that in a earthquake we will be able to stay put and defend in place and not have to leave our dwelling.
 
#14
If you're taking the class in order to train, then train like you fight or envision fighting...if for no other reason than as a proof of concept for your plan. I personally wouldn't give two wet shits about how other people think I looked, and I'd actually bet that most people taking the class would completely understand your reason for going with your full rig. FWIW...
 
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#17
Not wrong. And I am not right.
OP asked a question and I have been 'runnin and gunnin' for decades.
I could have benefitted from more proper instruction when beginning.
I think running a lot of gear is another chapter in itself.

OP; Best gear you will own is the instruction. Smart investment.
Just my .02
 
#19
I recommend you set up your carbine like mine

<a href="http://s767.photobucket.com/user/jayjaypunisher/media/MP5-2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx319/jayjaypunisher/MP5-2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo MP5-2.jpg"/></a>
 
#21
Tahoe333 said:
My wife insists I wear the chest rig when I cook Sunday breakfast!
Click to expand...

I hope you wear a cod piece too!

Seriously though, Sporter and German's advice will do you well. I would add that if you haven't sent 3-500 rounds of the ammo you I tend to shot during the course down range by now, get to it! A case of Wolf that works great 40 rounds a day is a different meal than the hundreds you'll tear up at class with your rifle dirty from powder and your mags full of earth. You're there to learn to shoot, not eval your build. Wring that shit out before class.
 
#23
If it were me I'd sell 90% of the kit to finance more classes. Don't worry about what anyone but your instructor thinks as far as the whole "tacticool" thing goes. I've always tried to have a casual look as I think the cargo pants, 511 shirt, TAD jacket thing just shouts "Hey! Over here! Shoot me first!". YMMV
 
#24
Looking TactiCool is a must, make sure your punch knife is accessible as well with a head scarf for an added intimidation factor! I would wear two chest rigs...one facing forward and the other backwards to hold more mags...
 
#25
waveslayer said:
Looking TactiCool is a must, make sure your punch knife is accessible as well with a head scarf for an added intimidation factor! I would wear two chest rigs...one facing forward and the other backwards to hold more mags...
Click to expand...

Should I also wear two thigh rigs on the same leg?

i took the advice you guys gave me and simplified my gear as well as where it resides, on the belt or chest.

thanks again.
 
#26
The training was a freakn blast. After 3 days I had band aids on both hands and elbows, rock bruises on my chest and the tendons in my arms were screaming!
Thanks for all the advice. I learned that my old eyes had a hell of a time using the 4moa H1 past 100 yds. During lunch the first day I rotated the H1 to 45 degrees and added the 1.5-6 Swarovski for my primary optic.
I used your advice and stripped down the chest rig to bare basics but it still didn't work out, the 30 round pmags continued to hang up during reloads.
The agres belt with 3 carbine mags and 3 pistol mags, minus the TQ, was by far the best set up for comfort and reloading while using urban prone, supine, prone, kneeling, sitting and running.
During transition drills, for me the G30sf was quicker and safer compared to the P220. The P220 requires a great deal more training to be safe and proficient compared to the G30sf. The da/sa on the P220 wasn't an issue but I am embarrassed to say that twice I had forgotten to decock the P220, leaving the pistol in SA with a live round chambered, before reholstering the pistol.
Although I pride myself on constantly observing rule #4, keep finger off of trigger until ready to shoot and no one noticed my safety lapse I was and am still really quite angry with myself for being that careless.
All in all, I met some really good people and had the time of my life.
Thanks again for the advice.
Simpler is better and bring all your gear so you can adjust/tailor your setup at the end of each day.
 
#27
If you don't use the gear, you will never figure out how or if it will work. I am often surprised to see how many people put the butt of their pistol right over their kidney and the nerve that serves that area. If they fell or were knocked onto their back the pain from that pistol butt would incapacitate them, but without trying out the gear, they will never know...(until it is too late).

I'm too damned old and lazy to carry around too much kit. So I strip my gear down more than many people. Less is better.
 
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