AR Newbie - Best $1500 AR15?

#4
I avoid Colt. Bcm are great. I personally own DD M4V5 and several LWRC rifles and I have a hard time choosing which to shoot. For a direct impingement rifle, in the 1500 dollar price range, you won't beat a DD in quality, reliability, accuracy or customer service.

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#5
Go with the Barnes, I've seen their stuff shoot and perform great. Since they are local, any problems could be solved quick.

That being said, you could put together a nice one for $1500.
 
#6
Tommys229 said:
I avoid Colt....
Click to expand...
And your reasoning is??
Absolutely nothing wrong with a Colt AR

OP why $1500?
Is it gonna be a jerking off safe queen or you going to run it?
You can find a good AR for around the 1k mark and you would still have 500 left over for a good optic or ammo....
 
#8
That colt 6920 is a good gun. In the ar market colt has set the standard for many years for high quality, when many others were using blah parts...only recently in the last few years have many other manufactures begun to use decent parts
 
#11
i'd go this order:
-Daniel Defense
-BCM
-Sig M400
-Colt. i'm also not a fan of Colts, but that's because the ones i've seen lately have been mediocre at best. the fitment on the last few 6920s we had in stock were sloppy, and i was helping a friend install a Noveske NSR and a Battlecomp on his 6920 a few weeks ago. we had the upper as it came mounted in a vice block, and just trying to loosen the A2 hider we spun the bbl free from the barrel extension. not knowing how to properly re-torque it, he sent the damn thing back to Colt. sure, they fixed it and it was pretty timely, but how the HELL do you screw that one up?! i mean seriously?!
now his Colt 6920 is a very nice rifle, it's wearing that NSR with a switchblock and a Battlecomp on the end. he put a Geissele trigger in it, and swapped the Rogers CompStock for a Magpul Fixed Carbine stock. it's NICE!


remember though, you paid NOTHING for this opinion, however, it was solicited ;)
 
#12
Brian said:
And your reasoning is??
Absolutely nothing wrong with a Colt AR

OP why $1500?
Is it gonna be a jerking off safe queen or you going to run it?
You can find a good AR for around the 1k mark and you would still have 500 left over for a good optic or ammo....
Click to expand...

To be honest, that was just what I expected to pay for a good one but I don't know much about these guns. One of Mt buddies just told me that he has built three great ARs, all under $1000. He said get a 1-7 twist 16" Noveske barrel, a good trigger and basically anything else and it should be a good accurate rifle.
 
#15
building is not a bad option. It allows you to pick and choose the very best parts for multiple companies and roll them all together. A built rifle with all top shelf parts will probably cost you more then $1500 and that does not include the tools to do it. I've built a number of them and while it's easy to keep it $1000 you might have to pick and choose what features are more important to you. You really need to decide what you want to do with this rifle before you go any further in the planning stages. Different ARs have different jobs and require different parts.
 
#16
You don't say what you want to do with this AR. Do you want a battle rifle? If so look toward Colt, Daniel Defense, or BCM. I prefer BCM, but I own recent production Colt, DD, and BCM and all are excellent. If you want a battle rifle, avoid DPMS, Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, etc. If this were my purpose, I'd buy a Colt 6920 for about $1050, a VCAS sling and a $400 Aimpoint PRO or pony up a few hundred more for a T1. Though I'd recommend mastering the irons first.

If you want a hunting gun, the other guys are just fine, and you could throw in Remington, etc. Ambush probably makes the best out of the box hunting gun for the cash.

If you want a game gun, you may look at the specialty products like JP or some of the Stag, RRA, etc models designed for that purpose.
 
#17
rukwikenuf said:
we had the upper as it came mounted in a vice block, and just trying to loosen the A2 hider we spun the bbl free from the barrel extension. not knowing how to properly re-torque it, he sent the damn thing back to Colt. sure, they fixed it and it was pretty timely, but how the HELL do you screw that one up?! i mean seriously?!
Click to expand...

Your first sentence is where you all screwed up not Colt IMO. Thats a very common problem, breaking the locator pin when you put torque on something that you shouldnt be. Two ways to remove the flash hider from the barrel on an AR15: barrel clamp(so you dont put torque on the pin) or a Giessele Reaction Rod(which isnt ideal, but better than upper receiver vice block). Ive seen lots of broken locator pins when trying to torque on a flash hider or comp with the upper in a vice block.

Unless something else broke or let loose, and then disregard the above.
 
#21
what I like about the colt is, you don't have to be a freakin expert in every itty bitty part that an ar is made up of. you are gonna receive a decent all around, mostly dependable gun, and its gonna have "battle rifle quality" parts in it. are they the best of the best, no, but will they work and will you have an accurate gun that you don't have to screw with...yes
 
#22
The first time I fired my Noveske N4 Afghan with stainless steel barrel and the monolithic receiver I had a 4X ACOG TA 31F on it. The first 5 shot 100 yard group after zeroing went into 0.4 moa group. It usually shoots around 06 moa. My other is also an N4 Afghan but with a chrome lined barrel and the MUIR receiver. It shoots slightly larger 5 shot 100n yard groups. 0.65-0.75 moa. Although the ATH shoots almost as well for a serious built like a tank battle rifle I would go with the Noveske. If only for target shooting etc then the ATH.
 
#23
I've been lurking here for a while...decided to post up. I have the same question and have been eyeing up DD as a top candidate myself. I'll watch this thread and see what other suggestions come up.
 
#25
Daniel Defense is pretty hard to beat. Their warranty service is also second to none. Noveske is also excellent but for an all around AR, I would buy DD again and again.

Colt's warranty service sucks. I bought a 6920 and when it showed up, the upper and lower were two totally different colors. One part was nearly purple. It looked ridiculous. Anyway, it took several tries to get them on the phone and ultimately was told that the variation in color wasn't anything they'd do anything about. I traded it (traded up big time actually) for a Les Baer 1911, so it all worked out.
 
#26
Thanks folks and the DD's are hard to beat for sure. There is a local guy that has a Noveske with the 16" Noveske Shooting Team SS upper that they are looking to move. It has a Gieselle (sp?) trigger and is unused. Its only $200 more than the DD I was looking at. I am going to head out there today and buy one of them....still cant decide but I am leaning towards the Noveske. Being in communist occupied CA my choices are somewhat limited.
 
#28
rjacobs said:
Your first sentence is where you all screwed up not Colt IMO. Thats a very common problem, breaking the locator pin when you put torque on something that you shouldnt be. Two ways to remove the flash hider from the barrel on an AR15: barrel clamp(so you dont put torque on the pin) or a Giessele Reaction Rod(which isnt ideal, but better than upper receiver vice block). Ive seen lots of broken locator pins when trying to torque on a flash hider or comp with the upper in a vice block.

Unless something else broke or let loose, and then disregard the above.
Click to expand...
How is the reaction rod not ideal? Its the best AR tool period. Ive built quite a few with mine and I wouldn't want to put another upper together without it again. Beats the hell out of a barrel vice, I can assemble the entire upper without ever having to pull it off my vice.
 
#29
1slow01z71 said:
How is the reaction rod not ideal? Its the best AR tool period. Ive built quite a few with mine and I wouldn't want to put another upper together without it again. Beats the hell out of a barrel vice, I can assemble the entire upper without ever having to pull it off my vice.
Click to expand...

For installing barrels into uppers its the best tool out there.

For taking off and installing muzzle devices I still prefer to clamp the barrel itself. With the reaction rod its still possible to torque the barrel and break the locator pin when installing or removing muzzle devices.
 
#31
rjacobs said:
For installing barrels into uppers its the best tool out there.

For taking off and installing muzzle devices I still prefer to clamp the barrel itself. With the reaction rod its still possible to torque the barrel and break the locator pin when installing or removing muzzle devices.
Click to expand...
How is it possible? The muzzle device is connected to the barrel which is connected to the barrel extension which is connected to the reaction rod. The locator pin is on the barrel extension which is held in place with the reaction rod. The pin cant move while torqueing anything if youre using the reaction rod.
 
#32
If you are looking to hunt deer, step up to a 6.8 or 6.5/.264. While I have shot NC deer with a .223, shot placement is critical if you want a DRT. I hunt with a suppressed 6.8 and it does a number on them.
 
#33
rjacobs said:
For installing barrels into uppers its the best tool out there.

For taking off and installing muzzle devices I still prefer to clamp the barrel itself. With the reaction rod its still possible to torque the barrel and break the locator pin when installing or removing muzzle devices.
Click to expand...

That rod is built to not let the ext turn in the receiver, therefore you won't screw the pin up.

A FH or brake doesn't need that much torque anyway.
 
#34
1slow01z71 said:
How is it possible? The muzzle device is connected to the barrel which is connected to the barrel extension which is connected to the reaction rod. The locator pin is on the barrel extension which is held in place with the reaction rod. The pin cant move while torqueing anything if youre using the reaction rod.
Click to expand...

346ci said:
That rod is built to not let the ext turn in the receiver, therefore you won't screw the pin up.

A FH or brake doesn't need that much torque anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree with both of you on the design and theory of the reaction rod. It was explained to me in greater detail than I was capable of completely understanding, but the gist was there is still a chance when torquing on the barrel that you could possibly put torque on the locator pin and break it. Or you could possibly spin the barrel in the receiver extension(although I would think this is fairly rare). Its designed for taking barrels on and off which you dont actually torque on the barrel, but on the nut, but something about torquing on the barrel itself could still cause pressure on the locator pin. I dont know, I have an inexpensive barrel clamp for my vice(AR-15/M16 BARREL VISE JAWS | Brownells) and some thin leather(I think its leather, might be vinyl) that I use when removing and installing flash hiders and what not and it works great for that function.

Again, I am not sure I totally understood how it was explained to me, but I trusted the guy explaining it to me.

I use the reaction rod though for building uppers and its awesome.
 
#35
After looking long and hard at the Daniel Defense and the Noveske NST with the SS barrel, the Gieselle trigger and samnev's comments about accuracy got me to choose the Noveske NST. If I had not bumped into this good deal on the Noveske the choice to go with the Daniel Defense would have been a very easy one.

EasternNCHunter, Not sure you can go too far wrong with any of the options out there. Daniels Defense, Lewis Machine and Tool(LMT), JP, Noveske, etc all make great shooters. If I did not have CA restrictions there would be a lot of options. Best of luck and post picks of what you end up with.

samnev said:
The first time I fired my Noveske N4 Afghan with stainless steel barrel and the monolithic receiver I had a 4X ACOG TA 31F on it. The first 5 shot 100 yard group after zeroing went into 0.4 moa group. It usually shoots around 06 moa. My other is also an N4 Afghan but with a chrome lined barrel and the MUIR receiver. It shoots slightly larger 5 shot 100n yard groups. 0.65-0.75 moa. Although the ATH shoots almost as well for a serious built like a tank battle rifle I would go with the Noveske. If only for target shooting etc then the ATH.
Click to expand...
 
#37
here is the end of your searching for under $1100... rock river ATH with the new upgraded handguard..... battle rifle or not, this thing is ultra light weight (with the new improved handguard as shown in my pic) kicks total ass for the money right out of the box and I would put it up against rifles damn near twice the price any day and I'm not one to BS people one bit. Also, if you want a 100% bench / prone precision AR, get a 20" varmint bull barrel.

rock river ATH:
IMG_7280_zpsa128bd15.jpg


600YARDS WITH THE ATH, 5SHOTS UNDER 3" (about .461moa with friggen 60grn vmax bullets):
275INCH_zpsefa4af69.jpg


300YARDS WITH THE ATH, 5SHOTS @ .933" (about .297moa with 60grn vmax):
IMG_7344_zps159d099e.jpg


At 100yards, 19 out of 20 5shot groups sub-moa, or 99 out of 100 rounds sub-moa, all shot in a row with different powder drop rates mind you:
IMG_7487_zps277b8bf2.jpg


At 100yards, 10shot group with the ATH:
IMG_8026_zpsc0ca0d0f.jpg


If this give you any doubts about rock river performance vs price, then you are kidding yourself. I've owned 7 rock river arms AR's now and they have all performed 100% with no FTF or FTE. They are just awesome. Rock river ATH 18" barrel or Varmint in a 20" barrel. You can't go wrong with either one.

Not going to post all of my varmint pics... the varmint bull barrel RRA is right in line if not slightly better groups than the ATH, but the rifle is much more heavy (is used for 100% bench / prone varmint shooting is awesome). Matter of fact, the best single 5shot group ive ever produced was with a varmint rock river arms bull barrel:
IMG_6087_zpsa05bebf8.jpg




I'm not saying to make your purchase here, but to only give you an idea... do your own homework!

Rock river ATH with the new handguard:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=371110963

new 20" varmint bull barrel with the new TRO (top rail octagonal handguard)!:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=371111610
the A2 buttstock might be basic as all hell, but it's great for a rear sand bag for the first timer;
rifle_zpsa93cce10.jpg
 
Last edited:
#38
rjacobs said:
I agree with both of you on the design and theory of the reaction rod. It was explained to me in greater detail than I was capable of completely understanding, but the gist was there is still a chance when torquing on the barrel that you could possibly put torque on the locator pin and break it. Or you could possibly spin the barrel in the receiver extension(although I would think this is fairly rare). Its designed for taking barrels on and off which you dont actually torque on the barrel, but on the nut, but something about torquing on the barrel itself could still cause pressure on the locator pin. I dont know, I have an inexpensive barrel clamp for my vice(AR-15/M16 BARREL VISE JAWS | Brownells) and some thin leather(I think its leather, might be vinyl) that I use when removing and installing flash hiders and what not and it works great for that function.

Again, I am not sure I totally understood how it was explained to me, but I trusted the guy explaining it to me.

I use the reaction rod though for building uppers and its awesome.
Click to expand...
Whoever told you that is wrong.
Pester said:
After looking long and hard at the Daniel Defense and the Noveske NST with the SS barrel, the Gieselle trigger and samnev's comments about accuracy got me to choose the Noveske NST. If I had not bumped into this good deal on the Noveske the choice to go with the Daniel Defense would have been a very easy one.

EasternNCHunter, Not sure you can go too far wrong with any of the options out there. Daniels Defense, Lewis Machine and Tool(LMT), JP, Noveske, etc all make great shooters. If I did not have CA restrictions there would be a lot of options. Best of luck and post picks of what you end up with.
Click to expand...
Post some pics. I love the NST guns.
 
#39
Pester said:
After looking long and hard at the Daniel Defense and the Noveske NST with the SS barrel, the Gieselle trigger and samnev's comments about accuracy got me to choose the Noveske NST. If I had not bumped into this good deal on the Noveske the choice to go with the Daniel Defense would have been a very easy one.

EasternNCHunter, Not sure you can go too far wrong with any of the options out there. Daniels Defense, Lewis Machine and Tool(LMT), JP, Noveske, etc all make great shooters. If I did not have CA restrictions there would be a lot of options. Best of luck and post picks of what you end up with.
Click to expand...

Elfster1234 is correct about the ATH but as I said " Although the ATH shoots almost as well for a serious built like a tank battle rifle I would go with the Noveske. If only for target shooting, shooting varmints etc then the ATH is a great rifle. It all comes down on what you want to do with the rifle.
I just happened to save that group I spkle about. The target is quite yellowed now as the group was shot about 7 years ago. The 2 taped shots were my last zeroing shots (I am cheap my tape my targets). The rest are the 5 shot group.
For the price you got the Noveske for I don't think you can go wrong choosing it over the DD. My N4 Afghan cost me a LOT more
 
Last edited:
#40
They are more than the $1,500.00 you originally posted about but take a look at the LWRC piston rifles. The M6 series are great rifles. Of the others mentioned I would say Daniel Defense would be my first choice. I have handled and shot one. It is probably the lightest AR I have ever shot. It was easy to maneuver with and very accurate. I just took possession on an LWRC SPR rifle and it is the closest to the Daniel Defense for a piston type rifle I have used.
 
#42
I really like that a lot! Does Rock River have a pretty good reputation? Customer Service?



elfster1234 said:
here is the end of your searching for under $1100... rock river ATH with the new upgraded handguard..... battle rifle or not, this thing is ultra light weight (with the new improved handguard as shown in my pic) kicks total ass for the money right out of the box and I would put it up against rifles damn near twice the price any day and I'm not one to BS people one bit. Also, if you want a 100% bench / prone precision AR, get a 20" varmint bull barrel.

rock river ATH:
IMG_7280_zpsa128bd15.jpg


600YARDS WITH THE ATH, 5SHOTS UNDER 3" (about .461moa with friggen 60grn vmax bullets):
275INCH_zpsefa4af69.jpg


300YARDS WITH THE ATH, 5SHOTS @ .933" (about .297moa with 60grn vmax):
IMG_7344_zps159d099e.jpg


At 100yards, 19 out of 20 5shot groups sub-moa, or 99 out of 100 rounds sub-moa, all shot in a row with different powder drop rates mind you:
IMG_7487_zps277b8bf2.jpg


At 100yards, 10shot group with the ATH:
IMG_8026_zpsc0ca0d0f.jpg


If this give you any doubts about rock river performance vs price, then you are kidding yourself. I've owned 7 rock river arms AR's now and they have all performed 100% with no FTF or FTE. They are just awesome. Rock river ATH 18" barrel or Varmint in a 20" barrel. You can't go wrong with either one.

Not going to post all of my varmint pics... the varmint bull barrel RRA is right in line if not slightly better groups than the ATH, but the rifle is much more heavy (is used for 100% bench / prone varmint shooting is awesome). Matter of fact, the best single 5shot group ive ever produced was with a varmint rock river arms bull barrel:
IMG_6087_zpsa05bebf8.jpg




I'm not saying to make your purchase here, but to only give you an idea... do your own homework!

Rock river ATH with the new handguard:
Rock River Arms Advanced Tactical Hunter AR 1560 : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

new 20" varmint bull barrel with the new TRO (top rail octagonal handguard)!:
Rock River Arms 20 inch SS Varmint A4 New : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
the A2 buttstock might be basic as all hell, but it's great for a rear sand bag for the first timer;
rifle_zpsa93cce10.jpg
Click to expand...
 
#43
I also just took position of an LWRC M6A2 SPR. While I agree it is a very handy carbine so far the best 5 shoot 100 yard groups I have gotten have been just under 1moa with the same hand loads I shot with my Noveske's. It also costs $500 than the OP paid for the Noveske. I've only had the SPR for 10 days and 1 range session so perhaps the groups will improve.
 
#44
elfster1234 said:
here is the end of your searching for under $1100... rock river ATH with the new upgraded handguard..... battle rifle or not, this thing is ultra light weight (with the new improved handguard as shown in my pic) kicks total ass for the money right out of the box and I would put it up against rifles damn near twice the price any day and I'm not one to BS people one bit. Also, if you want a 100% bench / prone precision AR, get a 20" varmint bull barrel.

rock river ATH:
IMG_7280_zpsa128bd15.jpg


600YARDS WITH THE ATH, 5SHOTS UNDER 3" (about .461moa with friggen 60grn vmax bullets):
275INCH_zpsefa4af69.jpg


300YARDS WITH THE ATH, 5SHOTS @ .933" (about .297moa with 60grn vmax):
IMG_7344_zps159d099e.jpg


At 100yards, 19 out of 20 5shot groups sub-moa, or 99 out of 100 rounds sub-moa, all shot in a row with different powder drop rates mind you:
IMG_7487_zps277b8bf2.jpg


At 100yards, 10shot group with the ATH:
IMG_8026_zpsc0ca0d0f.jpg


If this give you any doubts about rock river performance vs price, then you are kidding yourself. I've owned 7 rock river arms AR's now and they have all performed 100% with no FTF or FTE. They are just awesome. Rock river ATH 18" barrel or Varmint in a 20" barrel. You can't go wrong with either one.

Not going to post all of my varmint pics... the varmint bull barrel RRA is right in line if not slightly better groups than the ATH, but the rifle is much more heavy (is used for 100% bench / prone varmint shooting is awesome). Matter of fact, the best single 5shot group ive ever produced was with a varmint rock river arms bull barrel:
IMG_6087_zpsa05bebf8.jpg




I'm not saying to make your purchase here, but to only give you an idea... do your own homework!

Rock river ATH with the new handguard:
Rock River Arms Advanced Tactical Hunter AR 1560 : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

new 20" varmint bull barrel with the new TRO (top rail octagonal handguard)!:
Rock River Arms 20 inch SS Varmint A4 New : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
the A2 buttstock might be basic as all hell, but it's great for a rear sand bag for the first timer;
rifle_zpsa93cce10.jpg
Click to expand...

WOW, that .179 5 shot group is the best I have ever seen from an AR 15 platform. Terrific shooting Elfster!!! :)
 
#45
mdmorrow said:
Daniel Defense is pretty hard to beat. Their warranty service is also second to none. Noveske is also excellent but for an all around AR, I would buy DD again and again.

Colt's warranty service sucks. I bought a 6920 and when it showed up, the upper and lower were two totally different colors. One part was nearly purple. It looked ridiculous. Anyway, it took several tries to get them on the phone and ultimately was told that the variation in color wasn't anything they'd do anything about. I traded it (traded up big time actually) for a Les Baer 1911, so it all worked out.
Click to expand...

Nice to see your priorities are right...the anodizing has to be perfectly color matched, never mind the durability, reliability, or finally accuracy of the rifle.
 
#46
tylerw02 said:
Nice to see your priorities are right...the anodizing has to be perfectly color matched, never mind the durability, reliability, or finally accuracy of the rifle.
Click to expand...

That's why I replaced it with a Daniel Defense there champ. It's better than a colt by any measure. If colt can't even get something as simple as the finish right, what other corners might they have cut?

Thanks for your helpful input though. :rolleyes:
 
#47
mdmorrow said:
That's why I replaced it with a Daniel Defense there champ. It's better than a colt by any measure. If colt can't even get something as simple as the finish right, what other corners might they have cut?

Thanks for your helpful input though. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

My name isn't champ. Colt does not care about finish and neither do most serious AR users. Why does the shade of the annodizing matter so much to you, such that you'd scrap an excellent gun? Colt anodizing is based on spec, not color. Colt has stringent quality control, probably better than DD, honestly.
 
#48
tylerw02 said:
My name isn't champ. Colt does not care about finish and neither do most serious AR users. Why does the shade of the annodizing matter so much to you, such that you'd scrap an excellent gun? Colt anodizing is based on spec, not color. Colt has stringent quality control, probably better than DD, honestly.
Click to expand...

I am a serious AR shooter and it would really tick me off if my rifle came with the upper and lower so mismatched in color. Yes the quality of the any weapon is most important to me but I am also very picky about the esthetics of any weapon I own. Some shooters do not care about dings dents and scratches but many of us also like our rifles to be as pristine as possible. One shouldn't be chided because an expensive and supposedly top line manufacturer can not produce a rifle with the upper and lower of the same color. If lower end manufactures can why can't Colt?
 
#49
Exactly. If I beat it up that's one thing but coming from the factory looking like crap isn't cool. Not to mention their custom service on the other hand was downright terrible. I have another colt just like it that I leave in one of our ranch trucks and it didn't come looking like that. I hope I don't ever have any trouble with it but if I do it'll be replaced by something other than colt. It may be the standard but there are plenty of manufacturers that make a much better product.
 
#50
samnev said:
I am a serious AR shooter and it would really tick me off if my rifle came with the upper and lower so mismatched in color. Yes the quality of the any weapon is most important to me but I am also very picky about the esthetics of any weapon I own. Some shooters do not care about dings dents and scratches but many of us also like our rifles to be as pristine as possible. One shouldn't be chided because an expensive and supposedly top line manufacturer can not produce a rifle with the upper and lower of the same color. If lower end manufactures can why can't Colt?
Click to expand...

I explained it once, Colt anodizes to a spec. Others want pretty, which doesn't meet spec. You aren't too serious of a shooter if finish is the most important thing. A rifle is a tool. I don't intentionally mess it up, but it doesn't bother me if it cosmetically damaged performing its intended role. Do you also get upset when your hammer gets dinged driving nails? Or if the color on the handle doesn't match the grip?
 
Last edited:
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