Rifle Scopes S&B H2CMR and Kahles AMR.....need opinions.

[Trevor300wsm]

Hey guys,
I'm not typically one to post up asking for others opinions on a particular piece of equipment, but since I've never seen one of these reticles, here I am asking.

I'm about to pick up another scope. I've had S&B 5-25's before (P4F) and I'm familiar with them. I've shot some other guys rifles that had the H2CMR reticle and I liked it. Recently I stumbled across the AMR reticle used in some of the Kahles 6-24's. I believe this is a proprietary reticle by DTA. I really like it as well, but I've never seen one in person. Also, I know nothing about the Kahles other than what little I've read on here. I know the Gen 1 was less than great and the Gen2 was better as far as glass.

So this is where I need some opinions. Remove the price issue, because they are both within $150-$200 of each other. I know the S&B is/has been the standard for all other optics to be compared to. They are great scopes. I like the H2CMR reticle and it will work for me in the matches I shoot. However, S&B dropped their warranty to 2yrs and I think that was a low class move for such a high end scope. As I said, I know nothing of the Kahles 6-24. However they are the only optic offered with the AMR reticle. How do people feel about Kahles compared to the S&B 5-25? How do people like the parallax under the elevation turret? Any known issues with the 6-24? Any reason to pick one of the other brand?

 

[MattyG]

kahles is the oldest scope mfg in the world. They are now owned by Swarovski and have some of the best glass out there and even the Gen 1's were fantastic. The Jerry R will take care of you if your Schmidt goes down regardless of age, as long as he is running things at the S&B repair facility you will be well taken care of. I think it comes down to what reticle you want. The H2CMR is very popular around here (me included), it is well thought out and not cluttered. The AMR is a christmas tree design much like the gen 2XR, Tremor 2, Hxx Horus, etc. If you like the standard vertical and horizontal reticle format get the H2CMR, if you like xmas trees get the Kahles AMR.

An interesting read Kahles scope found 27 years later - The Optics Talk Forums

 

[ZombieMonkey]

I can't personally comment on the Kahles as I have not had the pleasure to look into one, there simply are none locally that I've seen. I really do like the S&B with the H2CMR reticle and would gladly purchase another one as I've found it to be clean and do what I need.

I definitely agree that the warranty move was a bad move, but I also have to wonder how much of it was driven by the abuse of customers. Yes, shit happens, but you can't expect a company to honor a lifetime warranty because of stupidity, accidents, etc. Even with the change in warranty, the S&B 5-25 has a proven track record. Just my thoughts though.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Let me clarify that I understand these are 2 different types of reticles. One being the standard horizontal/vertical and one being a Christmas tree design. I prefer the Christmas tree, but S&B does not offer a reticle like this other than the rare bird that pops up with the Gen2 XR. One sold recently here for $4500 and to that I say "no thanks". I can get by just fine in a match with the H2CMR, but in a timed chaos stage, being able to hold wind and elevation (accuratley) and never dial is pretty nice with the Christmas tree.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

I recently had the opportunity to run my Kahles head to head with and S&B 5-25 out to 1500 yds. My buddy and I were whacking steel for 3-4 hours at ranges from 400 yds out 1500. At the end of the day we both liked the Kahles better for a variety of reasons. Mine has the MSR and his S&B had the Klein. You will not regret going with the Kahles, I sold a Premier 5-25 to acquire mine and gave up nothing. I did however gain the reticle that I wanted and a neat parallax control that I really like. The turrets are superb as well.

 

[glockdan78]

I never could get used to the kahles parallax.

 

[nfoley]

I just bought a Kahles 6-24 with the MSR reticle and have been very impressed. Had the S&B with the H2CMR. I prefer the Kahles, but mostly because I'm a lefty. The S&B's illumination control was in a bad place for a left handed bolt lift. The Kahles parallax on top is ideal for a lefty. I really like this feature a lot!
Having said, I have no issues with either in regards to function and optical quality. For my eyes I could not say one was better glass. Both were significantly better than my NXS 5.5-22, and I really like the NXS a lot. I do feel the eye box on the Kahles is a touch better. I had read on here where people had issues with glass, I have had none. Both tracked perfectly, and had very nice turret feel. The Kahles is definitely lighter in weight, if that is a factor.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[JLR]

If you like the idea of the tree style reticles, then definitely go with the AMR in the Kahles over the H2CMR. I'm not sure I'd run it, just because I don't really care for the tree, but it seemed pretty well thought and usable. As far as the Kahles scope goes, they are good to go and on par with the rest of the high end glass available.

 

[jonthomps]

I've owned both and nothing bad to say about either of them. I still own a Schmidt 3-20 w/ an H2CMR reticle and love it. For me, it's been the best reticle I've ever used. The .2 mil hash marks are awesome for wind holds. Optically you might as well flip a coin, so I'd go with the reticle you like the best. The 2yr warranty thing is what it is. Jerry has always been great to deal with (I try not to think about a time when he's not at the helm).

 

[MattyG]

The S&B comes with a Tremor 2 reticle if you want a Schmidt with an xmas tree.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

I appreciate all the input guys. I went ahead and ordered the S&B/H2CMR. It's a very popular scope with a very popular reticle so I know I'll be able to re-sell it down the road should something better come along. I've dealt with Jerry at S&B Service before and I was treated very well, so I'm not too worried about that either. I like the AMR reticle, but without actually seeing one in person, I just opted to go with what I know works and will work for me.

Just a FYI.....Chris at Sport Optics is a nice guy to deal with. He was cheaper than anyone else by far. Another "High Elevation" vendor on here would not budge a penny on price, even for a Hide member. Said it just wasnt possible.

 

[peaceatwar]

Another "High Elevation" vendor on here would not budge a penny on price, even for a Hide member.

Funniest thing I ride on the hide today. I have now covered my monitor in black tea.

 

[Scotch_egg]

The S&B comes with a Tremor 2 reticle if you want a Schmidt with an xmas tree.

I have never seen this in the U.K I would love this ret with dot centre.

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

I appreciate all the input guys. I went ahead and ordered the S&B/H2CMR. It's a very popular scope with a very popular reticle so I know I'll be able to re-sell it down the road should something better come along. I've dealt with Jerry at S&B Service before and I was treated very well, so I'm not too worried about that either. I like the AMR reticle, but without actually seeing one in person, I just opted to go with what I know works and will work for me.

Just a FYI.....Chris at Sport Optics is a nice guy to deal with. He was cheaper than anyone else by far. Another "High Elevation" vendor on here would not budge a penny on price, even for a Hide member. Said it just wasnt possible.

Trevor I wish I would have know it was you......I would have charged you extra

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Trevor I wish I would have know it was you......I would have charged you extra

No shit.....that's why I was playin incognito. I think my post here generated you a extra sale or two also today. Just sayin.......