Did you know about Erik Cortina's other YouTube Channel?
- Thread starter orkan
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That day is today. PM me your address, phone number, and email addy... and a CPS will arrive. Merry Christmas!
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Stop. Or I’ll switch back over and kick you out too.
This is great. I was just checking your website to read up on the CPS to see if I could use one and found something.I’ll just drop this here, because I know @orkan wouldn’t.
hehe... yup, Santa's CPS's has been going on for about a week now. I hadn't announced it or the rest of the festivities yet... but I plan to. Look for that here in the reloading section later this week.
I’ll just drop this here, because I know @orkan wouldn’t.
If you shoot poorly enough... most things are.
That is awesome you doing that.hehe... yup, Santa's CPS's has been going on for about a week now. I hadn't announced it or the rest of the festivities yet... but I plan to. Look for that here in the reloading section later this week.
Keep up the articles for us and don’t listen to the people talking trash.
I always enjoy reading stuff you and you and DThomas put out.
Oh and when is that primer depth gauge coming out I seen in one of the CPS videos? Or can I purchase that somewhere?
Give it another year and there will be a 700 dollar priming system the precision community will push to be the best.
Over the years the most consistent thing about this market is the tools get more expensive and the advertising shooters get massive perks to bullshit claims about products.
Show an actual test
Over the years the most consistent thing about this market is the tools get more expensive and the advertising shooters get massive perks to bullshit claims about products.
Show an actual test
We'll be getting them up on the website this week hopefully. You can call an order in and we'll get your order in the hopper.
Sure.
You just keep on using your RCBS Robo Grip primer seater and stay ignorant by choice.
Your shooting (and Isaiah's Blacksmith) won't improve because of the way you seat primers. You both have other issues to work out and priming is the least of your worries...
I've shot some of Dave's hand loads and I'll have to say the performance and consistency was fantastic.
I watched shooter after shooter make tiny groups at 1000yds from two different rifles and loads.
If any of you dismiss the importance of consistency, you should open your eyes and see what's being done with the best of the best tools, components and rifles.
Anyway:
One thing that all priming tools do is seat primers.
Some are good at it, especially for the price.
An example would be the old (really old) Lee with the round trays. It's too bad they were built out of pot metal that stretches and eventually breaks.
Well, there goes another $20...
Some priming tools are fairly expensive and don't work worth a damn.
Those that have bought and used them know which ones.
Mid priced tools in the $60-$90 range are hit and miss.
Many have off centered assemblies.
The linkage usually has terrible feel, and leverage is almost nonexistent. Lubing the moving parts rarely helps.
It doesn't take much force to seat a primer, so your hands shouldn't get too tired. With the crappy tools, doing 100 cases is enough for me to take a break, and to really feel it the next day.
(Yeah, I'm 59 and have arthritis and Dupuytren's contracture issues in my hands. The last thing I need is more pain.
Therefore, bench priming is best for me.)
I digress.
Linkage based tools eventually wear out and you're stuck with more scrap metal.
Press mounted priming is mostly a joke.
The only press I've ever used that had decent feel and proper leverage is the RCBS Partner Press. It's single feed of course.
Otherwise, on press priming is a waste of time because you never know if the primer is fully seated, level or proud. Try priming on a Hornady Lock n Load and you'll see what I mean.
RCBS used to produce a bench mounted primer tool that had an eccentric cam-like system. Unfortunately, I've never seen one with the primer tube fed system or I would own one. They work great.
That leaves me one real option and that is the CPS.
That looks pretty slick there Orkan. The one I made uses a gauge setup similarly but I like the block to keep it in place and the different pilots. I made two pilots. Curious if the "zero" remains the same as you change shot pilots.
I have. Shot one on an instagram live stream a while back.
Erik Cortina shot just over a 1" group at 1000yds performing a primer seating depth test. Alex Wheeler has demonstrated it. Several other benchrest and F-class shooters have demonstrated it. One particular team has been employing this with great import and had an oath to keep it secret, it was so important. This tool has been on the market since 2015 and I've been talking to people about the importance of ignition timing since long before that. Don't sit here and act like the evidence and proof isn't out there just because you are out of the loop.
Why is this such a problem for people to accept? I wonder if the guys that "invented" bullet seating depth testing or charge weight testing had to deal with these closed minded people. lol
This is just another way to get more performance out of your rifle. If you don't want that, then what exactly are you in this discipline for? Have you attempted a primer seating depth test? Do you shoot well enough and have everything else worked out to see an improvement even if you did? ... because if you're not consistently 1/4 MOA to 1/3 MOA or better at the moment... then you clearly have some things to work on. This can take you from 1/4 MOA to shooting in the zeros legitimately. It can take you from half MOA to shooting in the 3's... easily.
So, vilify me for pushing the discipline further and enhancing peoples knowledge of these things that affect it greatly. Your hatred of me doesn't say anything about me, but it says everything about you.
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Yup, zero stays the same always. (unless you loosen the body)
$500 for the entire kit.
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Why? You wouldn't believe me anyway. lol Show me YOUR test! lol
Go look on youtube. Lots of others posted tests. Maybe you'll believe them?
Maybe you'll believe Jason Wolf?
Jason Wolf
2020 IBS 600YD National Champion
2 years in a row!
2 gun overall 1st place
light gun group 1st
light gun score 1st
light gun overall 1st
heavy gun score 1st
heavy gun group 2nd
heavy gun overall 1st
2019 IBS 600yd National Champion
HG Overall winner
HG score winner
LG overall winner
LG score winner
Just PM me your name, phone number, and email address... and I'll get a CPS headed your way. Merry Christmas!Never heard of this but I think I have to start saving! My “limp wrist” just isn’t a fan of the hand primer
I watched the video. I was referencing his opinions. Apparently his mind slammed shut once he considered the price.
I think it's a great product and the information both you and Eric provided kind of blew my mind, just a little.
Thanks for sharing, probably now on my list of things I didn't know that I needed.
I'll watch the video when I get home from work.
I grabbed a CPS Lite off a prize table a few years ago and literally just got it set up last night. (dont I feel like a dumbass)
I used to sit with a tupperware bowl on my lap and hand prime while watching a movie so it didn't seem like so much of a chore, but the 100 I did last night at the press were so much more pleasant, i felt like digging out any brass I had laying around and priming it all.
I grabbed a CPS Lite off a prize table a few years ago and literally just got it set up last night. (dont I feel like a dumbass)
I used to sit with a tupperware bowl on my lap and hand prime while watching a movie so it didn't seem like so much of a chore, but the 100 I did last night at the press were so much more pleasant, i felt like digging out any brass I had laying around and priming it all.
I really don’t understand the folks questioning why more consistent priming would make better ammo. That’s the whole point of rolling your own right? I’m not a good enough shooter yet, nor is my reloading at a level where I’m ready to make this particular tool a part of my process, but I hope to get to the point where it becomes necessary. I appreciate the info and look forward to watching the vid after work.
I'd love to have one of these some day just for the ergonomics alone. There's something to be said for using quality equipment when spending all that time invested at your bench. I know I enjoy the process so I can think of it as investing in myself . Lots of nice gear out there. Some day.
. Lots of nice gear out there. Some day.
Correctly measuring primer seating depth has always been my hang up. I've never felt like I had an adequate way of measuring depth because the face of the case has more variation than case rim to primer pocket face. I'm looking forward to the measuring tool. The personality conflict aside, the CPS seater looks like a quality tool.
I appreciated the video. I love learning new things and hopefully ways to better my loading skills. I’m actually fairly new to the precision loading side (used to have someone do it for me) guys like Orkan and cortina have been very helpful. Guys that are willing to share I really respect. I have the want for top tier tooling but have settled in areas because of $ (charge master vs v3, rcbs vs cps, benchnsource vs amp etc) . I went with the rcbs bench priming tool as I didn’t like hand priming due to wrist/hand problems and thinking no way does it really make a difference to step up to the cps. While it works I constantly see and feel the inconsistency. Has had me wondering for the last year if I made a mistake here. I try to do everything else uniformly so why not this step too? I hadn’t really jumped on the band completely but I think I’m pretty much convinced now. I think I know where some of my tax returns will be going this next year. I had planned on a autotrickler but may have to add a cps to that list. Thanks again orkan for taking the time to share with some of us less knowledgeable people. I will be trying the rice much sooner. The wife probably won’t notice that on the old bank acct. haha
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I am looking forward to the measuring tool as well. The CPS is a nice tool, makes fast work of seating primers, and it is super easy to use. Has definitely produced more consistent results down range. I will have to try the primer seating test some day. Very interesting stuff.
This is a great thread. It really surprises me to see just how much I don’t know about things sometimes. Again, I’ve only primed on an LnL press so far, but I did finally grab the frankford hand unit over Black Friday. What kinda of drawbacks does that one have?
So back to the rice topic from the video… you show damaged necks from SS wet tumbling on your blog on the topic. I want to go look at mine to see if I have the same. But if they show the same marks, is there a way to correct it? If they’re already damaged will rice do anything other than add the inherent lubricity?
So back to the rice topic from the video… you show damaged necks from SS wet tumbling on your blog on the topic. I want to go look at mine to see if I have the same. But if they show the same marks, is there a way to correct it? If they’re already damaged will rice do anything other than add the inherent lubricity?
Dude. A little bit of humility will go a long ways here.
F Class John, Keith from Winning in the Wind, Erik, and a bunch of other people ALL have independently talked about this. That's just to name a few.
At some point shutting up and learning is the best option.
I certainly don't know everything there is about guns and ammo or a pretty much anything. I'm 100% sure that you are the same.
As I stated in an earlier post... one can easily make ammo, even good ammo using standard stuff. However it is also a fact that going from 'good' to 'excellent and consistent' are two different things. F Class John recently posted up his chrono results. Over 60 consecutive shots in a single string with an SD of 6.
To get to the next level there is more to it than just settling on guesswork.
Haaaa there’s been so many tools that come out that these YouTube ppl push and then get away from. Just because they get free stuff they’ll give ir a good review. Then you won’t see them using it a few months later.if your source of info is YouTube your a complete fool.
Depends on who 'that fool is' making those videos. There is a whole lot of them that you will never ever be able to touch in the way of accomplishment.
Interesting article linked below.
www.reloadingallday.com
Does Primer Seating Depth Matter?
For the longest time, seating depth on primers and especially primer pocket uniforming, has been discredit by almost all of the shooting community. Unfortunately, this tedious method has been pushed off by many individuals. Well, I decided to give it a shot despite of what everyone has been...
www.reloadingallday.com
Reading through this thread reminds me of a couple things
1- There are some extremely smart individuals in our sport
2- There are some ignorant folks in our sport who are open to learn and become smart individuals
3- There are some individuals that possess a term I’ve coined “Dumb Pride”
The smart individuals experiment to find the best results. Sometimes these experiments involve creating new tooling, or finding better operating practices for current tooling. These folks have verifiable data backing any claim they make.
The ignorant folks are always looking for more information on how others are finding success. This group retains all lessons learned. Even if limited by financial means, they are more than willing to acknowledge next level concepts.
Now for Dumb Pride. These people see something is better , but through some unexplainable force they have to argue with it. They normally base the argument on a price factor or a general insult. Hence their dumb pride not only hold back their personal learning , but in ways innovation of other folks. These folks are usually the smart people.
I think most of us are a mix of the first two groups. But apparently the Dumb pride folks are out in force.
I would love to afford a CPS , an auto trickler/scale combo, and a zero press. Life gets in the way of these tools, but make no mistake these are all next level tools that if used correctly will improve the reloading process in speed and accuracy. Thanks to all the folks who have the means to innovate and come up with improved tools and techniques.
Sorry I was long winded but I’m shit full of guys bagging on top shelf stuff. It is expensive for a reason. If you have no interest then just move on. I like seeing next level tools and techniques, even if I can’t currently afford them.
1- There are some extremely smart individuals in our sport
2- There are some ignorant folks in our sport who are open to learn and become smart individuals
3- There are some individuals that possess a term I’ve coined “Dumb Pride”
The smart individuals experiment to find the best results. Sometimes these experiments involve creating new tooling, or finding better operating practices for current tooling. These folks have verifiable data backing any claim they make.
The ignorant folks are always looking for more information on how others are finding success. This group retains all lessons learned. Even if limited by financial means, they are more than willing to acknowledge next level concepts.
Now for Dumb Pride. These people see something is better , but through some unexplainable force they have to argue with it. They normally base the argument on a price factor or a general insult. Hence their dumb pride not only hold back their personal learning , but in ways innovation of other folks. These folks are usually the smart people.
I think most of us are a mix of the first two groups. But apparently the Dumb pride folks are out in force.
I would love to afford a CPS , an auto trickler/scale combo, and a zero press. Life gets in the way of these tools, but make no mistake these are all next level tools that if used correctly will improve the reloading process in speed and accuracy. Thanks to all the folks who have the means to innovate and come up with improved tools and techniques.
Sorry I was long winded but I’m shit full of guys bagging on top shelf stuff. It is expensive for a reason. If you have no interest then just move on. I like seeing next level tools and techniques, even if I can’t currently afford them.
I’d love to afford all of this too.
But like everything else, when you can’t afford everything you have to prioritize spending based on which pieces make the most difference when the rubber meets the road.
I still don’t have the budget for most of this precision stuff, but what part goes on the list first to buy things slowly over time?
Do you gain more in getting a CPS vs a hand primer? Or area 419 press (or 21st or AMP) vs a co-ax or rock chucker? Or autotrickler vs chargemaster?
Anybody have any data on that?
But like everything else, when you can’t afford everything you have to prioritize spending based on which pieces make the most difference when the rubber meets the road.
I still don’t have the budget for most of this precision stuff, but what part goes on the list first to buy things slowly over time?
Do you gain more in getting a CPS vs a hand primer? Or area 419 press (or 21st or AMP) vs a co-ax or rock chucker? Or autotrickler vs chargemaster?
Anybody have any data on that?
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Its because they are stupid.
The 21st century hand primer is a great tool. Its just slow and depends on your fat arthritic fingers feeding every single primer.
The cps primes just as well but you can have a mag of 100 loaded to go plus however many tubes you want filled to quickly burn through em.
Its not just that it does a great accurate job, its that it does it fast and easy.
So, the autothrow vs trickling on a good beam scale would be more comparable.
That would be interesting data. I feel in topped out using the current consumer grade tools available. A CPS will likely be my next investment once funds allow. It offers speed and precision. Kind of a 2 for 1. I will probably go to a more accurate powder thrower after that
Thanks for the kind words words.
Not to hijack a thread, but within a few weeks we will he shipping our own Ammo and it will he at least the quality everyone saw at the PRE.
And……they will all be done utilizing @orkan ’s Primal Rights PrimeWhere and Competition primer seater.
There’s another level to this as well. The more well a tool is engineered the easier it is to use, making it faster. But also at the same time being easy to use makes all these manual operations we do in reloading more reliable and less prone to error due to the human factors. So in a way faster tools can often lead to better results as well.
It’s like the u boat control room. Yes, every valve can be exactly controlled, but it takes forever and is prone to a lot of human error.
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This thing has intrigued me for many years. I had @orkan. CPS lite for a while on a Spare rock chucker but sold it to a buddy that really wanted it.. I only prime on a 550c anymore but damn now I really want one of these to do my own side by side testing 550c vs CPS review to post.
The CPS is absolutely best option out there. Additionally @orkan is genuinely good people. In the few ( 3 ) phone chats we have had he has helped me improve my reloading vastly by sharing his knowledge and time. I bought my cps a year ago and not only is it quality kit, I discovered another benefit just as critical. It has more than paid for itself in the time it has saved me, I can prime my brass faster than ever and do so in a manner that is absolutely repeatable and exact. There is no other product I can name that is as fast and produces the same results everytime... bar none. I don't know about you all but my time has an intrinsic value that is quantifiable. The ability to recapture significant amounts so that I can spend it in other endeavors has been a very pleasant surprise.
You can bet your backside when I recover from spoiling my grandbabies for Christmas I will be buying the new measurement tool.
You can bet your backside when I recover from spoiling my grandbabies for Christmas I will be buying the new measurement tool.
Credit where it's due to both you and Greg.
