USPSA/IDPA vs PRS vs 3 gun

GoatLD259 · Mar 2, 2022

Good Afternoon Hide,

For those who compete in these three disciplines, what do yout find the most difficult. I shoot USPSA and just started in PRS, and right now I find USPSA to be more difficult. But, I believe this is due to my background and being able to translate easier into PRS.

I want to hear some more opinions.

Goat

LawnMM · Mar 2, 2022

earthquake · Mar 2, 2022

GoatLD259 said:
I want to hear some more opinions.

This is the Bearpit. Are you sure about that?

davsco · Mar 2, 2022

well certainly from a logistics standpoint, uspsa/idpa is the easiest by far. handgun, belt & holster, couple mags, 3-4 boxes of ammo and you're in the game. 3 gun you're schlepping around that plus two long guns plus a mix of shotgun ammo, caddies, AR mags and the like. prs you have a long heavy rifle plus bags, tripod etc.

i'd say prs is the hardest to be the best shooter. all the work and time before the match into finding the best loads and then getting dope, figuring out reading the wind, getting that rifle steady.

but they're all hard and they're all fun.

hlee · Mar 2, 2022

PRS is golf with a rifle.

USPSA is golf with a pistol.

3-gun is ~~golf with 3 guns~~ gay.

Edited for @TonyTheTiger

GoatLD259 · Mar 2, 2022

davsco said:
well certainly from a logistics standpoint, uspsa/idpa is the easiest by far. handgun, belt & holster, couple mags, 3-4 boxes of ammo and you're in the game. 3 gun you're schlepping around that plus two long guns plus a mix of shotgun ammo, caddies, AR mags and the like. prs you have a long heavy rifle plus bags, tripod etc.

i'd say prs is the hardest to be the best shooter. all the work and time before the match into finding the best loads and then getting dope, figuring out reading the wind, getting that rifle steady.

but they're all hard and they're all fun.

They are fun, but I feel USPSA might be the harder discipline as its about speed and accuracy (hitting A zone), and doing it as fast as you possibly can. As in, you get on target, acquire appropriate sight picture, and then calling your shots. You have to learn to call your shots and be able to do it quickly.

Goat

stefan73 · Mar 2, 2022

GoatLD259 said:
They are fun, but I feel USPSA might be the harder discipline as its about speed and accuracy (hitting A zone), and doing it as fast as you possibly can. As in, you get on target, acquire appropriate sight picture, and then calling your shots. You have to learn to call your shots and be able to do it quickly.

Goat

Ran a stage at Spearpoint with a time limitation running from I believe it was 600 yards to 1400 yards and back. Also shot a stage with multiple targets on a "helicopter" platform (unstable platform) at various distances under time from about 800-900 yards. Then movers which give you limited presentation time, etc etc etc.

So,

davsco · Mar 2, 2022

well, technically you never time out in uspsa though of course speed does really matter in your score. but it's not too hard to time out in prs and at a minimum you do have to work within a stated time limit.

stefan73 · Mar 2, 2022

davsco said:
well, technically you never time out in uspsa though of course speed does really matter in your score. but it's not too hard to time out in prs and at a minimum you do have to work within a stated time limit.

and depending on stage a time limit and round count.

hlee · Mar 2, 2022

USPSA and 3-gun- Proving, once and for all, that you CAN miss fast enough to win...

HousePlant · Mar 2, 2022

If USPSA is close to IDPA (which I do just to practice "pistol self-defense" as best I can) I'd say PRS is much, much harder.

BJames · Mar 2, 2022

I bet you shoot MOA because Mils is too easy.

stefan73 · Mar 2, 2022

hlee said:
PRS is golf with a rifle.

USPSA is golf with a pistol.

3-gun is golf with 3 guns.

I remember heckling my shooting partner @Short-bus and him me when we shot matches. It was a lot of fun. First match we shot together everybody looked at us horrified as we gave each other grief. When everybody else shot it was like being at a pro golf tournament with the quiet sign being held up. Good times.

zeroz · Mar 2, 2022

In for hearing about where you finish in your first PRS match.

Deputy Dan · Mar 2, 2022

hlee said:
Proving, once and for all, that you CAN miss fast enough to win...

I've been out of USPSA for a while and didn't understand your comment until I checked the current scoring rules. Wow - need a computer to handle scoring these days! Last time I shot there was major (45 ACP) and minor (9mm) - not sure but I think 40 was major. Anyway back then you needed speed AND accuracy to win. None of this score per second stuff involved. So now it's possible to sacrifice accuracy and still win . . . unfortunately I was accurate but very slow.

I enjoyed both USPSA and 3-gun but I'm poor and gave up when my weekly ammo budget went through the roof, and never got back in. I've considered PRS but until ammo prices come down (ya - right!?!) I'm cannibalizing my 308 rig and using as many parts as possible with a rimfire gun. So far extreme silhouettes, but might try an NRL22 match or two this year. Unfortunately the local extreme silhouette and NRL22 matches are both held on the same Saturday each month.

Now if there was a USPSA rimfire competition - I'd be all over that. I'd need a new gun - of course!! - but it seems there's always budget funds for a new gun. Just never enough to keep it fed . . .

stefan73 · Mar 2, 2022

Deputy Dan said:
I've been out of USPSA for a while and didn't understand your comment until I checked the current scoring rules. Wow - need a computer to handle scoring these days! Last time I shot there was major (45 ACP) and minor (9mm) - not sure but I think 40 was major. Anyway back then you needed speed AND accuracy to win. None of this score per second stuff involved. So now it's possible to sacrifice accuracy and still win . . . unfortunately I was accurate but very slow.

I enjoyed both USPSA and 3-gun but I'm poor and gave up when my weekly ammo budget went through the roof, and never got back in. I've considered PRS but until ammo prices come down (ya - right!?!) I'm cannibalizing my 308 rig and using as many parts as possible with a rimfire gun. So far extreme silhouettes, but might try an NRL22 match or two this year. Unfortunately the local extreme silhouette and NRL22 matches are both held on the same Saturday each month.

Now if there was a USPSA rimfire competition - I'd be all over that. I'd need a new gun - of course!! - but it seems there's always budget funds for a new gun. Just never enough to keep it fed . . .

I shoot Outlaw USPSA and have a blast doing it. For about two years I only shot single stack major.

TonyTheTiger · Mar 2, 2022

hlee said:
USPSA and 3-gun- Proving, once and for all, that you CAN miss fast enough to win...

thats-not-how-this-works-thats-not-how-any-of-this-works.gif

TonyTheTiger · Mar 2, 2022

HousePlant said:
If USPSA is close to IDPA

It's not.

hlee · Mar 2, 2022

TonyTheTiger said:
View attachment 7819228

So there are no stages where the penalty for not engaging a target is smaller than score received from shooting the target? I’ve read that it is fairly common that the ‘gamer move’ can be to take a penalty and avoid certain targets, or burn one in the berm and scoot.

TonyTheTiger · Mar 2, 2022

hlee said:
So there are no stages where the penalty for not engaging a target is smaller than score received from shooting the target? I’ve read that it is fairly common that the ‘gamer move’ can be to take a penalty and avoid certain targets, or burn one in the berm and scoot.

Only if an MD is a retard. It's standard procedure to penalize a miss on a difficult target so much that everyone gives it an honest try. Not that that matters, the guys winning are very close to going one for one. If the best you can do is pick between sucking on a target or skipping it you ain't winning shit.

That's 3 gun. In USPSA even at a club match with a mid depth talent pool one mike can easily take you from overall winner to an also ran. Major matches are decided by a couple seconds over the course of days of shooting.
This is what winning looks like:
Shooting two alphas faster than most people can get a sight picture doesn't leave room for anyone else to miss fast enough to win.

hlee · Mar 2, 2022

TonyTheTiger said:
Only if an MD is a retard. It's standard procedure to penalize a miss on a difficult target so much that everyone gives it an honest try. Not that that matters, the guys winning are very close to going one for one. If the best you can do is pick between sucking on a target or skipping it you ain't winning shit.

That's 3 gun. In USPSA even at a club match with a mid depth talent pool one mike can easily take you from overall winner to an also ran. Major matches are decided by a couple seconds over the course of days of shooting.
This is what winning looks like:
Shooting two alphas faster than most people can get a sight picture doesn't leave room for anyone else to miss fast enough to win.

Regardless, this is the Pit, so I maintain that "He who misses fastest, wins..." But, I'm editing my first post in this thread, just for you. All in good fun...

LawnMM · Mar 2, 2022

GoatLD259 said:
They are fun, but I feel USPSA might be the harder discipline as its about speed and accuracy

Goat

"They are fun, but I'm an aging fudd who can't succeed in a new sport, and feel comfortable in a completely different one that I'm probably not all that great either...

So for fun I'm going to start a conversation about why my fudd sport, supported by dozens of forums and websites (Brian Enos, etc) is actually better on the other disciplines website"

Here's what I think, you probably suck at all of them and nobody's interested in the reason you don't like this one.

Rerun7 · Mar 2, 2022

Run n Guns are harder and better training than all of those.

Fight me…

D_TROS · Mar 2, 2022

Ive shot them all. Precision Rifle is by far the most difficult.

I shot the Sure Fire 3 gun nationals last fall. its a good way to burn up a ton of ammo. having a pcp go down cost me some hardware. its fun sure but too expensive burning that ammo.

3 gun is dying is my opinion. just like BR and possible f-class. I dont want to see any shooting discipline go but its just boring.

GL
DT

GoatLD259 · Mar 2, 2022

LawnMM said:
"They are fun, but I'm an aging fudd who can't succeed in a new sport, and feel comfortable in a completely different one that I'm probably not all that great either...

So for fun I'm going to start a conversation about why my fudd sport, supported by dozens of forums and websites (Brian Enos, etc) is actually better on the other disciplines website"

Here's what I think, you probably suck at all of them and nobody's interested in the reason you don't like this one.

I

LawnMM said:
"They are fun, but I'm an aging fudd who can't succeed in a new sport, and feel comfortable in a completely different one that I'm probably not all that great either...

So for fun I'm going to start a conversation about why my fudd sport, supported by dozens of forums and websites (Brian Enos, etc) is actually better on the other disciplines website"

Here's what I think, you probably suck at all of them and nobody's interested in the reason you don't like this one.

Son, I didn’t say USPSA is better, just that IMO, it is more difficult. I prefer PRS competition.

LawnMM · Mar 2, 2022

Semantics, and I'm not your son, fudd, I think somebody from the nursing home is looking for you. Time for your pills.

GoatLD259 · Mar 2, 2022

LawnMM said:
Semantics, and I'm not your son, fudd, I think somebody from the nursing home is looking for you. Time for your pills.

Yeah, your Mom is.

LawnMM · Mar 2, 2022

Rthur · Mar 2, 2022

Baiting a pissin' match about shooting disciplines...
You just might make it in the pit.

R

LawnMM · Mar 2, 2022

Is that it? Please don't tell me he's done already...

davsco · Mar 2, 2022

D_TROS said:
3 gun is dying is my opinion.

yes 3g turnout seems to be slowing. but, 2 gun is growing. that shottie just adds a ton of logistics (another long gun, which choke, shot vs slugs, 100yd slug shots out of a smoothbore, shell caddies, etc). and at least for me, a 26" shottie is the last gun i would use for HD, so just not as relevant or interesting in a match.

lonegunman762x51 · Mar 2, 2022

I was going to shoot USPSA and then I realized I was heterosexual.

LawnMM · Mar 2, 2022

427Cobra · Mar 2, 2022

I’m still waiting on a PRS/NRL shooter to do the 4 Izes before each stage like we do in USPSA, Analize Stratigize, Memorize, Visualize, also most PRS/NRL shooters take way too long get there first shot off, you simply can’t waste 30 seconds on finding the target, getting into position, adjusting your scope and shoot in a 60 second stage

LawnMM · Mar 2, 2022

427Cobra said:
I’m still waiting on a PRS/NRL shooter to do the 4 Izes before each stage like we do in USPSA, Analize Stratigize, Memorize, Visualize, also most PRS/NRL shooters take way too long get there first shot off, you simply can’t waste 30 seconds on finding the target, getting into position, adjusting your scope and shoot in a 60 second stage

I'm still waiting for a USPSA Shooter to show up in PRS/NRL and show all us 'tards how it's done with all their sagely wisdom.

hlee · Mar 3, 2022

Waiting on round count limits in USPSA/IDPA/3-G. Require 1 for 1 shooting to clean a stage.

TonyTheTiger · Mar 3, 2022

stefan73 · Mar 3, 2022

D_TROS said:
Ive shot them all. Precision Rifle is by far the most difficult.

I shot the Sure Fire 3 gun nationals last fall. its a good way to burn up a ton of ammo. having a pcp go down cost me some hardware. its fun sure but too expensive burning that ammo.

3 gun is dying is my opinion. just like BR and possible f-class. I dont want to see any shooting discipline go but its just boring.

GL
DT

I really enjoyed shooting Bench rest! I would like to try my hand at 3 gun. I have the kit for it, there just isn't anything local or close for that matter.

308pirate · May 13, 2022

Deputy Dan said:
I've been out of USPSA for a while and didn't understand your comment until I checked the current scoring rules. Wow - need a computer to handle scoring these days! Last time I shot there was major (45 ACP) and minor (9mm) - not sure but I think 40 was major. Anyway back then you needed speed AND accuracy to win. None of this score per second stuff involved. So now it's possible to sacrifice accuracy and still win . . . unfortunately I was accurate but very slow.

When was USPSA scoring not based on hit factor (points/second)

The people who complain about USPSA scoring or about others winning with a mike or NS here and there are usually two kinds

The ones who don't know shit about USPSA
The ones who suck at it

Which one are you?

BTW, nobody at a high level is winning anything with a bunch of mikes and no shoots in their score. That goes double for anyone shooting minor PF

308pirate · May 13, 2022

Deputy Dan said:
Now if there was a USPSA rimfire competition -

Not gonna happen. Ever.

Steel challenge might be more your speed

308pirate · May 13, 2022

lonegunman762x51 said:
I was going to shoot USPSA and then I realized I was heterosexual.

Oh come on now, don't you want to get your ass kicked by a guy in the senior category with a bad knee that can still outrun and outshoot you?

308pirate · May 13, 2022

hlee said:
Waiting on round count limits in USPSA/IDPA/3-G. Require 1 for 1 shooting to clean a stage.

Who the fuck wants to die of boredom?

DocRDS · May 13, 2022

USPSA is harder

Because you have to take more than 3 steps.....
---
Honestly they are different disciplines. I don't think PRS really pushes the limits of what the equipment or competitors can do.

hlee · May 13, 2022

308pirate said:
Who the fuck wants to die of boredom?

Benchrest shooters…

cas6969 · May 13, 2022

308pirate said:
Oh come on now, don't you want to get your ass kicked by a guy in the senior category with a bad knee that can still outrun and outshoot you?

I used to shoot USPSA with an 89 year old WW2 vet. A little frail looking man shooting an old SIG P226. You could've clocked hit with a sundial, but he outshot every single person in the match. (he didn't shoot slow like it was a bullseye match, he just moved slow between shooting locations) It was a rare occasion that he got a C hit and he'd be upset with himself when he did. Every stage there'd be a couple targets you could cover both holes with one paster.

We used to show videos of him to "I'm too old for that", "I'm too out of shape for that" folks to shame them into trying something new.

308pirate · May 13, 2022

cas6969 said:
I used to shoot USPSA with an 89 year old WW2 vet. A little frail looking man shooting an old SIG P226. You could've clocked hit with a sundial, but he outshot every single person in the match. (he didn't shoot slow like it was a bullseye match, he just moved slow between shooting locations) It was a rare occasion that he got a C hit and he'd be upset with himself when he did. Every stage there'd be a couple targets you could cover both holes with one paster.

We used to show videos of him to "I'm too old for that", "I'm too out of shape for that" folks to shame them into trying something new.

God bless the guy for staying with it, but time is a factor in scoring. And two As overlapping are worth no more than two that are at the opposite extremes of the A zone.

308pirate · May 13, 2022

I gave PRS a fair shot in 2018. Two club matches in 3 - 4 months. No doubt in my mind that if I wanted to, I could be moderately competitive.

There are several problems with PRS (or NRL for that matter)

There were very few matches back then, and those were 2.5 hrs from home
There are zero PRS or NRL centerfire matches now within those 2.5 hrs
The matches take all fucking day long
The $/fun ratio was not there for me
Reloading CF rifle is a PITA
It's gear intensive as fuck
Its organizational structure is a complete clusterfuck

USPSA OTOH

Has a match every weekend within 90 min of home
Level 1 (club matches) are done in 3 hours on average (4 - 6 stages)
Level 2 matches are done in 5 - 6 hours (ten stages)
Reloading is cheap, easy, and quick
Gear requirements are pretty light both qty and $ wise
It has a mature, well run, well regulated organizational and administrative structure with none of the bullshit drama I see in PRS

TonyTheTiger · May 13, 2022

cas6969 said:
I used to shoot USPSA with an 89 year old WW2 vet. A little frail looking man shooting an old SIG P226. You could've clocked hit with a sundial, but he outshot every single person in the match. (he didn't shoot slow like it was a bullseye match, he just moved slow between shooting locations) It was a rare occasion that he got a C hit and he'd be upset with himself when he did. Every stage there'd be a couple targets you could cover both holes with one paster.

Sounds like a guy I know, except my guy shoots PCC and is actually one of the main stage designers/building guys. Great guy.

ECK · May 13, 2022

I’ll just leave this here….

308pirate · May 13, 2022

TonyTheTiger said:
Sounds like a guy I know, except my guy shoots PCC and is actually one of the main stage designers/building guys. Great guy.

+1

I know a guy like that in NW OH. He actually wins HOA (I know I know) with a PCC, with iron sights, and he's in his 70s.

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