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Why do we pay taxes?
- Thread starter Bender
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Anatomy of the State by Rothbard
What must be done by Hoppe
There’s also a collection of anarchist essays by Michael Malice called The Anarchist Handbook. It’s really good and covers the whole spectrum. There are several left anarchist essays that are really good. Just a quick disclaimer though, the left anarchists don’t know or understand anything about economics. Just know that going in
Some of the best nuts-and-bolts books about Austrian economics and liberty, but are very dense reads, are
Human Action by Von Mises
Man, Economy, and State by Rothbard
After that, the options are endless. Head here to get the best Austrian economics/anarchist content. This site could fill a lifetime of reading on just this subject
Mises Institute
With the help of our extraordinary supporters, the Mises Institute is the world's leading supporter of the ideas of liberty and the Austrian School of
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A couple more books that are a little more pertinent to today are
Meltdown by Tom Woods, explains what and why the ‘08 crash happened and that there were actually a lot of people predicting what would happen
Nullification by Tom Woods, exactly what it sounds like. Woods is a historian and can explain exactly what the founders were thinking & saying about leaving the union if they so chose
Meltdown by Tom Woods, explains what and why the ‘08 crash happened and that there were actually a lot of people predicting what would happen
Nullification by Tom Woods, exactly what it sounds like. Woods is a historian and can explain exactly what the founders were thinking & saying about leaving the union if they so chose
Well, I sleep better at night knowing that my tax dollars are going to some half-assed, corrupt eastern European country that everyone now seems to love . Never mind that 99% in this country don't know a fucking thing about Ukraine or can point to it on a map. Not like those billions of our tax dollars could find a good use here at home. Cause suddenly "Ukrainian democracy" is the most important thing on earth, and we get to pay for it 
Good to hear, welcome to the club
I’ll just put this here too but be forewarned, he is the gold standard anarchist/conspiracy theorist/independent journalist and can back everything that he says with legit source documents
The Corbett Report - Open Source Intelligence News
Open Source Intelligence News
www.corbettreport.com
Sales and property taxes are levied by the state, county and/or city. That's an entirely separate issue.
It's not just the peasants on government programs. It's a huge portion of the (lower) middle class.
Look at a young family of five. Two parents, three kids under six, and lets say they have $75k in total taxable income.
They'd generate a federal income tax liability of about $5k. BUT... they'd also receive $10,800 in refundable child tax credits. They're going to get back whatever they withheld, plus about another $5k. This is assuming they opted out of the "advance" payments 1/2 of the credit between July and December. If not, they'd get back just a little more than they paid in when they filed, but they would have already received over $5k in government payments in advance. This isn't a program you register for. No DSS applications or anything like that. It's built into our filing system.
The rich pay more than their fair share. It's an undeniable fact.
Just a little quibble. There is no good use for tax dollars, anywhere or anytime. Tax dollars are the destruction of wealth. See the broken window fallacy as an explanationWell, I sleep better at night knowing that my tax dollars are going to some half-assed, corrupt eastern European country that everyone now seems to love . Never mind that 99% in this country don't know a fucking thing about Ukraine or can point to it on a map. Not like those billions of our tax dollars could find a good use here at home. Cause suddenly "Ukrainian democracy" is the most important thing on earth, and we get to pay for it
The Broken-Window Fallacy | Mises Institute
Let us review Bastiat's original lesson and apply it to modern-day disputes over the possible benefits of destructive events.
Oh I totally agree. Taxation is legalized theft, plain and simple.Just a little quibble. There is no good use for tax dollars, anywhere or anytime. Tax dollars are the destruction of wealth. See the broken window fallacy as an explanation
The Broken-Window Fallacy | Mises Institute
Let us review Bastiat's original lesson and apply it to modern-day disputes over the possible benefits of destructive events.mises.org
Don't get me started on the totally immoral "property" taxes.
I see that line about a good use of tax dollars all the time. I know most people say it with good intentions but it still annoys the shit out of me
You misunderstand. Im not defending government, per say, just clarifying that its not the system but those who run the system (corruptly).
Sometimes analogy's help:
Lets say yourve got a nice new car, it runs well, but is designed to run on high test. YOU put low test in it and it sputters along. Is that the cars fault? Is it the low test gas's fault? Then you piiss in the gas tank and it quits entirely. Whose fault?
The fact is is its your (the operator) fault for doing dumb shit...you've corrupted the system, but dont blame the system. Its no different than a gun, neither good nor bad in and of itself. It all depends on the person operating it.
Ill add that any system that intentionally takes away individual liberty (communism/Islam)for the sake of the state or religion, is corrupt to begin with.
The fact they bitched and moaned to get “money” (it was theirs to begin with) to its own citizens, but then instantly and joyfully give money to over seas interests that do not have our interests at heart? Is all the evidence I need that our whole system is corrupt.
This is the same argument used to defend collectivism, it sounds good and can be made “to work on paper”. But if something produces results wildly different in the real world than on paper then something was very wrong with your paper calculations
Didn't Ted Kezinsky, aka "the Unabomber," rent that from you at one point?
Wrong.
Our republic was set up specifically to protect and enhance individual liberty. 'collectivism' just the opposite.
If you put too much powder in the case when you reload, it explodes and fucks you up, where lies the fault?
You cant blame the likely impending failure of our republic on the system, blame it on the corrupt individuals who have usurped the power within the system.
What about the interstate highway system you use when you drive cross country?
No taxes, you can ride your horse. It will only take 4 months and no a/c.
So you just need to find people who aren’t going to be corrupted? I’m sure that will work next time…
I pay taxes so we can have nice roads, a police and fire department and so children can get an education at our fine public establishments.
lol, nah I pay taxes because Jack booted thugs force me too.
lol, nah I pay taxes because Jack booted thugs force me too.
The slap on the wrist punishments for individuals in power needs to go.
Corrupt politicians need to swing from the gallows. End of story. Their assets need to be seized, clawed back etc. save for $50k for their families to build a new life and cover funeral expenses.
It'd sort itself out after a bit....
The Privatization of Roads and Highways: Human and Economic Factors: Block, Walter, Edmunds, Brad: 9781610167437: Amazon.com: Books
The Privatization of Roads and Highways: Human and Economic Factors [Block, Walter, Edmunds, Brad] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Privatization of Roads and Highways: Human and Economic Factors
www.amazon.com
This tired trope about the roads? The short answer is a construction company will build them and a company that is comfortable with large projects will manage them
Eventually you’ll run out of people. Or you’ll run out of people that are willing to take the job. If you run out of people who want the job, what do you do? Force someone to be your overlord? That sounds…silly
but mah roaads.
Biden Embraces California’s Zombified Rail Boondoggle
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www.heritage.org
I'm not advocating for hanging politicians when they fuck up, or even when they downright lie. Only when they knowingly and willingly engage in corruption.
We're not running out of people for pararescue, EOD or special forces. I seriously doubt we'd run out of people who want the job. There are harder to jobs to get with way more risk and less reward out there.
Look, kiddo, you’re on the right track. But you can’t deal in absolutes. I was local Sheriffs department. There are tons of good local guys. They are literally the last hope. Feds are gone. There is a difference. Learn it.
I dont think he's capable of learning. Ive tried reasoning with him on several instances to no avail.
As far as I can determine it there are VERY few absolutes. There are mostly shades of gray. In government, as in law enforcement, and everything else Ive encountered in this world, there is good, angels, devils, and most inhabit a realm somewhere in between.
I dont disagree, a private sector could likely do an equal or better job, but who will supervise, provide oversite, on the big companies and the management that theyve paid off to look the other way when only 50% of the steel was put inot the bridges? Or substandard concrete is used in the road, or insufficient site prep work.
Its the same as the gub'mint, just a different name.
Case in point: I used to travel I 40 through Arkansas on a regular basis. The roads were always under construction and always terrible. They would finish one section, move to another, and in a year or two be back redoing the first section. We used to joke that happened because they were built out of politicians pork.
Ill give it to Bill Clinton, when he was governor that got fixed. Perhaps toe only good thing he did.
Perhaps you'd endorse a private military. We could call the leaders.....
Warlords.
No, I think you make some valid points, but miss the overall view because you've painted yourself inot a corner of anger, hate, and seeing things in, as Bender mentioned, absolutes.. Non of those are helpful in seeing the truth.
Good local guys that are paid in stolen tax money, don’t forget that. That also have health care for life and a pension funded by the same stolen tax money. The same corruption in the cities can find it’s way to the hinterlands as long as their funding isn’t voluntary and there’s no legitimate competition
Sorry I forgot the right title. Anyhow, Woodrow Wilson was a huge traitor to this Republic.
You’re strawmanning my argument. You’re assuming that this same company will be protected somehow just like if it had received this road construction/maintenance contract from a state. With a completely private, profit seeking legal system any grievances people have with these companies would be worked out. It most certainly won’t always be smooth and there will definitely be mistakes made but it’s much more likely to happen than with gov-run court systems. Bill Clinton may have gotten something “productive” accomplished but that’s despite being gov provided and the cost was certainly orders of magnitude higher
And what is this fucking retarded shit about a private company “likely” doing a better job of providing goods or services than a state or a company that’s subsidized with tax money? Nobody with two brain cells to rub together thinks gov is more efficient than anything
I would also endorse a private military as long as they’re funded voluntarily and I don’t have some of its goons trying to intimidate me and shake me down for $$. If that’s the case I don’t give a fuck what name is associated with them
Common sense dictates not funding a security force with stolen tax money and not having a true mechanism to hold anyone accountable.
Youre really confused and apparently beyond reason. Im done wasting time on intentional ignorance.
You keep saying I and others havent answered your questions. Let me ask you one. No discussion, keep it simple... pick A or B.
The problem your espousing are the fault of:
A-The system itself.
B-The people operating the system.
This is true if you have kids, if you don't you pay more so others can get paid for breeding, you also pay more if you are unmarried. The whole system is shit and need abolished.
One of my pet peeves. Being single and no rug rats, why should I pay taxes for others children. Not only tax credit but I have to pay taxes to send other's brats to school and god knows what else. FTS
Reformed at very least, or we can hope for a new heaven and new earth.
I said nothing like that. Not even close. The only one talking in circles is you.
I thought you were just confused. Now I know youre either hallucinating, an idiot, or just making up lies to stir shit or save face,
I didn't say I was looking for a free ride. Happy to pay tolls when I need to travel, happy to pay fees for the services I need. I pay tolls every time I travel to the Houston area.
Disgusted that I have to pay for "social services" that I never use. Not happy that I have to pay property/school taxes when I don't have a kid in the system.
I had to pay to renew my building permit when I didn't finish in 12 months. Exactly what do you think it cost the county for me to build on property that I own? And how did me taking more than 12 months to build cost them anything?
I already paid $2500 to get a water meter set (so I could pay a water bill every month), and either did the work myself, or paid local contractors to do it.
Absolutely fine with paying a fee for fire department, ambulance, or police services IF I NEED THEM. Same with toll roads. If I don't drive, I don't pay.
And the fuel taxes cover the road maintenance, not income tax. That's just theft. I pay to avoid prosecution.
If you ain't willing to work, I don't give a flying fuck if you starve. If you CAN'T work, I am glad to help, and do it often. I take meals to my elderly neighbors all the time, and help them with chores they can't do.
Taxation for shit I don't need (or even want) is theft, pure and simple. If our goobermint has enough money for foreign aid, they are taxing us more than they should.
Thats my point. Its not that government is bad, per se. They do some good. Its when the people involved fuck it up that problems arise. .Im not speaking of you in particular, but there are those (one idiot in particular) who cant distinguish between the system and those running it. He chooses to paint with a braod brush.
My point is that a gub'mint system, in and of itself is neither good nor bad any more than a gun is good or bad. Its the one in charge thats responsible. Like Alec Baldwin.
And with your water meter, you could have drilled a well. If they wouldnt allow it you could have built elsewhere where you could have a well. . You had choices, you made them so you play by the rules or go elsewhere.
What argument do you think you’re using? That there are some things that gov just has to do? Like national security, foreign policy, or upholding a monopoly on monetary policy? Sure, why don’t we give responsibility for the three most important things to the group most likely to fuck it up
But government IS bad, per se. They mismanage EVERYTHING, and local communities could do better for themselves on most. The remainder could easily be done better by a private concern than by the government.
Let me charge $5 for every out of state vehicle that gets on any stretch of interstate highway, and a monthly pass fee of $25 for locals, say a 300 mile segment. My proposal includes bridges, mowing, side trimming, striping, etc.
I guarantee that the section in question, after I have 18 months to fix old incorrect crap, will be the best highway in the entire US system. And, I will be very wealthy. This is mainly because the contractors will be allowed to bid fairly, without having to allow for bribes, graft, corruption, hookers, blow, or other associated costs of doing business with "fine, upstanding goobermint officials" who "operate in the public interest".
That would mean the tolls for a trip from Atlanta to Houston would cost $15-20, depending on the breakdown on mileage. And if a contractor didn't do well, fire them and hire a new one.
No, its not. Youure buying into the same crap the other idiot is pushing. Its no more bad per se than a gun. Its who uses it and how they use it.
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