375 CT vs 375 EnABELR

338Lapmag · Jun 10, 2022

secondofangle2 said:
View attachment 7889081

I'm enjoying your aggravation. Thanks. You made my day! I was hoping for a more meaningful and relevant response than just a one word quote from a dictionary - pedestrian at best. It pollutes this forum.

However, for the benefit of those who read this forum, I suggest your future posts contribute to the discussion of long range shooting. I think I can speak for the others when I remind you that nobody, least of all me, cares about your personalizing everything you post.

secondofangle2 · Jun 10, 2022

You just got here and are speaking for others are you?

How old are you? Come on tell us.

Geno C. · Jun 10, 2022

My guess would be, young

badassgunworks · Jun 10, 2022

Actually the 2 i know of that have had problems with the enabelr have been in cadex platforms

338Lapmag · Jun 10, 2022

secondofangle2 said:
You just got here and are speaking for others are you?

How old are you? Come on tell us.

Mature enough to know that there is no substitute for experience, and experience is no substitute for being objectively correct. When will you write a post relevant to this forum?

338Lapmag · Jun 10, 2022

badassgunworks said:
Actually the 2 i know of that have had problems with the enabelr have been in cadex platforms

Please be more specific. What "problems"?

338Lapmag · Jun 10, 2022

Geno C. said:
My guess would be, young

How is your post relevant to this forum's subject matter of long range shooting?

badassgunworks · Jun 11, 2022

338Lapmag said:
Please be more specific. What "problems"?

Case head seperations on properly chambered and properly sized brass some on first firings

Bandit320 · Jun 11, 2022

338Lapmag, you just show up, nobody knows you, and you start talking down to people who have been a contributing part of this community for years and yammering like a whiny little girl. If you want any credence here tell us what experience in ELR you have and what specifically you have achieved with the enabler.

Personally, I think you’re a troll and have nothing to contribute.

338Lapmag · Jun 11, 2022

Bandit320 said:
338Lapmag, you just show up, nobody knows you, and you start talking down to people who have been a contributing part of this community for years and yammering like a whiny little girl. If you want any credence here tell us what experience in ELR you have and what specifically you have achieved with the enabler.

Personally, I think you’re a troll and have nothing to contribute.

You state this as though I am supposed to care. You flatter yourself.

The content of my posts refute highly questionable, derogatory conclusions about the 375 EnABELR caliber, Cadex, and AB which are misleading to those who visit this forum for the purpose of learning something. I have not just stated what my opinions are, but I have also explained the reasons for my opinions. As you can see from this thread, I have asked others to explain the reasons for their opinions - but to no avail as exemplified by your post.

Your post leads me to conclude that you think I have not been a part of this forum long enough to disagree with others. It appears you are of the opinion that your squatters' rights on this forum make your posts more authoritative than mine. How foolish. That is why your post is about me, not about your articulable reasons, based on the merits, for disagreeing with me. Those who take an argument to a personal level do so out of desperation. How pathetic. As I stated before, if you choose to post about me personally, rest assured I will respond in kind.

I have no experience in shooting any further than 800 yards. However, my posts and questioning others' posts specifically pertain to the unfounded criticisms of Cadex, the 375 EnABELR caliber, and AB. I have had no problems at all with this caliber or these entities. My posts are based on my experience with these since December of 2019. My experience and personal knowledge in these matters is diametrically opposed to the condemnations of others' posts. This forum has the purpose of communicating such experiences. This forum does not have the purpose of posting personal accusations motivated by those who are reading opinions that disagree with their own. Such individuals should go elsewhere to avoid violating their hypersensitivities.

So, feel free to continue casting juvenile aspersions. It reminds me of grade school. It is your First Amendment right to gratify yourself by putting on public display your feckless posts.

Bandit320 · Jun 11, 2022

You’re a blabbering troll. No more, no less.

338Lapmag · Jun 11, 2022

badassgunworks said:
Case head seperations on properly chambered and properly sized brass some on first firings

I see. That has certainly not been my experience. Like I said, I have reloaded some brass as many as 15 times. I also use Hernon sealant at the neck. I did come to suspect that the neck of the brass tends to weaken after 11 or 12 reloads even though the primer cup was still snug. But I limit the reloads to ten. I have used nothing but Peterson brass as sold by AB. I use the Cadex Shadow. It would appear that the problem is not with inherent design flaws of the caliber, nor with Cadex, AB, or Peterson brass as some have alleged in their posts, but with the failure to accurately chamber the rifle. I realize you contend that the action was properly chambered, but what else could be responsible for case head separation? I think those who visit SH to learn about these matters should be aware of both sides. Thanks for responding.

338Lapmag · Jun 11, 2022

Bandit320 said:
You’re a blabbering troll. No more, no less.

As if I care.

badassgunworks · Jun 11, 2022

It is my personal openion that velocity migrations were the excuse when the enabelr did not preform as expected . And hoped for . When compsired to the cheytac. But thats just my personal guess. As a sales pitch it sounds good. The mag feed is a good attribute but no one uses a repeater for elr matches.

badassgunworks · Jun 11, 2022

338Lapmag said:
I see. That has certainly not been my experience. Like I said, I have reloaded some brass as many as 15 times. I also use Hernon sealant at the neck. I did come to suspect that the neck of the brass tends to weaken after 11 or 12 reloads even though the primer cup was still snug. But I limit the reloads to ten. I have used nothing but Peterson brass as sold by AB. I use the Cadex Shadow. It would appear that the problem is not with inherent design flaws of the caliber, nor with Cadex, AB, or Peterson brass as some have alleged in their posts, but with the failure to accurately chamber the rifle. I realize you contend that the action was properly chambered, but what else could be responsible for case head separation? I think those who visit SH to learn about these matters should be aware of both sides. Thanks for responding.

I even know of one of the AB employees that have had case head sepperation on new brass from peterson. Its happening on the peterson cheytac brass as well as new cartridge datum is off and its most likly the same issue with the enabelr.

338Lapmag · Jun 11, 2022

badassgunworks said:
It is my personal openion that velocity migrations were the excuse when the enabelr did not preform as expected . And hoped for . When compsired to the cheytac. But thats just my personal guess. As a sales pitch it sounds good. The mag feed is a good attribute but no one uses a repeater for elr matches.

Understood.

However, per my Magneto, I can shoot strings of 15 rounds with avg. of 2964 fps, SD 6.6, ES 15. The Hernon sealant helps a great deal in minimizing ES. I turn the neck 0.001". Per QuickLOAD, 100% of the powder is burnt (32" barrel + muzzle brake). This is using 137gr of RL50, Fed 215M. I am partial to mag feed. I am not yet getting 0.5 moa, I need to perfect the combination of powder load and bullet seating depth. However, using the 98Bravo (mag fed) at 200 yards I would unfailingly get a clover leaf with 4 of 5 rounds, with the 5th still within 0.5 moa, but not part of the clover leaf (Lapua Scenar 300gr). I'll be happy when I can do the same with the EnABELR.

338Lapmag · Jun 11, 2022

badassgunworks said:
I even know of one of the AB employees that have had case head sepperation on new brass from peterson. Its happening on the peterson cheytac brass as well as new cartridge datum is off and its most likly the same issue with the enabelr.

Understood. That certainly has not been my experience. I have reloaded every one of the approximately 450 rounds of EnABELR that I have shot to date, and not a single one has had any such problems. None whatsoever.

I don't dispute what you say. My purpose is simply to document on this forum my experience with this caliber for those who do their due diligence before they buy. If someone were to ask me what I think about the EnABELR, I would enthusiastically recommend the Cadex Shadow, Peterson brass, and the 375 EnABELR if such person preferred mag feed. I have no regrets and I am glad I bought it.

Geno C. · Jun 11, 2022

338Lapmag said:
I see. That has certainly not been my experience. Like I said, I have reloaded some brass as many as 15 times. I also use Hernon sealant at the neck. I did come to suspect that the neck of the brass tends to weaken after 11 or 12 reloads even though the primer cup was still snug. But I limit the reloads to ten. I have used nothing but Peterson brass as sold by AB. I use the Cadex Shadow. It would appear that the problem is not with inherent design flaws of the caliber, nor with Cadex, AB, or Peterson brass as some have alleged in their posts, but with the failure to accurately chamber the rifle. I realize you contend that the action was properly chambered, but what else could be responsible for case head separation? I think those who visit SH to learn about these matters should be aware of both sides. Thanks for responding.

You’re wrong. Brass and it’s compatible with chambers was a well documented issue. You fail to realize that, just because you’ve not had any problems, that others have.

338Lapmag · Jun 11, 2022

Geno C. said:
You’re wrong. Brass and it’s compatible with chambers was a well documented issue. You fail to realize that, just because you’ve not had any problems, that others have.

I am glad to see you have posted something relevant to this forum.

Perhaps I have failed to realize that. It is also possible that others, who condemn the 375 EnABELR claiming it has inherent design defects, have failed to realize that the 375 EnABELR shoots without problems, and can be safely and consistently reloaded as many as ten times, all without failure, using the Cadex Shadow.

I cannot explain why others are having problems while I have experienced none whatsoever in reloading approximately 450 rounds of 375 EnABELR. What I do realize is that my 375 EnABELR Cadex, my brass, and AB have been unfailingly compatible. Others who visit this forum to learn about such matters should know that.

GIXXER2000 · Jun 11, 2022

Well here is my 2 cents worth. I am just about done with my 2nd 375CT barrel and the 3rd will be done any day. The guys I have shot with have had nothing but problems with the 375en. The way the fixed the problem was to rechamber with a NON-AB reamer. They both said the AB chamber is to big. When the proper size chamber is used it work fine. I have 6 firing on my current Peterson and none of them show any sign of separating. When I spoke to the boys at Peterson the told me not to bump the shoulder until the brass becomes hard to chamber. So far I have only bumped 1 time for the 5th firing and the brass chamber like new again. I do anneal every firing. I am shooting a Cadex with a 34in 1-7 twist Bartlein barrel.
here is my load
Brass Peterson
Cutting edge 400gr Lazor
215m
N570 131.5gr
avg 3065fps
sd 6.4
es 13
It been very accurate and in the last 6 matches I have shot 3 2nds and 3 1st targets were set at approximately 1780.2205,2650,3085 yards

338Lapmag · Jun 11, 2022

GIXXER2000 said:
Well here is my 2 cents worth. I am just a bout done with my 2nd 375CT barrel and the 3rd will be done any day. The guys I have shot with have had nothing but problems with the 375en. The way the fixed the problem was to rechamber with a NON-AB reamer. They both said the AB chamber is to big. When the proper size chamber is used it work fine. I have 6 firing on my current Peterson and none of them show any sign of separating. When I spoke to the boys at Peterson the told me not to bump the shoulder until the brass becomes hard to chamber. So far I have only bumped 1 time for the 5th firing and the brass chamber like new again. I do anneal every firing. I am shooting a Cadex with a 34in 1-7 twist Bartlein barrel.
here is my load
Brass Peterson
Cutting edge 400gr Lazor
215m
N570 131.5gr
avg 3065fps
sd 6.4
es 13
It been very accurate and in the last 6 matches I have shot 3 2nds and 3 1st targets were set at approximately 1780.2205,2650,3085 yards

I think your post is very helpful. Thanks very much!

It would appear that the AB reamer is the problem - something I did not deal with since I bought the Cadex Shadow complete. My compliments on the shooting. I resize my brass after every shot, and as I have previously mentioned I can easily go ten reloads. My loads are not quite as hot as yours.

As a footnote to your post, I have looked into the 338 Enabelr. Bartlein says that for $250 over the regular price, you can buy a barrel that will double the normal barrel life. This would greatly alleviate the shorter barrel life of the 338 EnABELR. The magazine for the 338 EnABELR is the very same as used for the 375 EnABELR - if you care about mag feed. Although Cadex does not make a complete 338 EnABELR, it is possible to buy all the parts from Cadex, have them shipped to Bartlein, they will complete the rifle with the barrel with 2X the barrel life (Cadex is not using this barrel in their completed rifles) and Bartlein will charge about $250 to assemble it. The bullets for the 338 are about $0.50 to $0.70 less than the 375 - very attractive.

Geno C. · Jun 11, 2022

338Lapmag said:
I am glad to see you have posted something relevant to this forum.

Perhaps I have failed to realize that. It is also possible that others, who condemn the 375 EnABELR claiming it has inherent design defects, have failed to realize that the 375 EnABELR shoots without problems, and can be safely and consistently reloaded as many as ten times, all without failure, using the Cadex Shadow.

I cannot explain why others are having problems while I have experienced none whatsoever in reloading approximately 450 rounds of 375 EnABELR. What I do realize is that my 375 EnABELR Cadex, my brass, and AB have been unfailingly compatible. Others who visit this forum to learn about such matters should know that.

I never claimed a design defect.

Carl O White · Jul 31, 2022

I’ve been shooting a 375 EnABELR since mid 2020 and I’ve recently competed at Spearpoint Ranch monthly matches in light division with my 338 EnABELR.

Personally I’ve never had any issues mentioned here, I’ve done quite well with both.

AWheeler · Sep 28, 2022

GIXXER2000 said:
Question did AB ever settle the government lawsuit over the Enabler??

Hello - I just stumbled across this thread - what lawsuit?
Amanda Wheeler
Applied Ballistics Marketing Coordinator

AWheeler · Sep 28, 2022

secondofangle2 said:
What's that about?

its about nothing! no lawsuit has happened

Geno C. · Sep 28, 2022

@AWheeler thanks for joining.

AWheeler · Sep 28, 2022

Geno C. said:
@AWheeler thanks for joining.

Thank you! after getting so many screen shoots in one day I figured I better get on here and keep things real and honest!

Geno C. · Sep 28, 2022

Bet I know how that started

This place can get kind of wild sometimes. Lots of people talk of things they know nothing about. Having you here gives direct AB info

AWheeler · Sep 28, 2022

Geno C. said:
Bet I know how that started This place can get kind of wild sometimes. Lots of people talk of things they know nothing about. Having you here gives direct AB info

I just did a general Applied Ballistics search - dang it! lol
I am always happy to help and answer questions - anyone here can reach me directly at any time - [email protected]

Hardholder439 · Oct 11, 2022

Emailed Amanda

"Hi Amanda:

My Cadex Defense Shadow in .375 EnABELR finally arrived after a 6 month wait. Prior to its’ delivery, I purchased 500 pieces of Peterson brass and Whidden dies from Applied Ballistics. The Whidden dies came with a .397 neck bushing which I thought strange as the neck thickness of the Peterson brass is .0155-.016. Combined with the bullet this makes for a neck measurement of .405-.406 neck thickness for loaded rounds. Based on past experience, I measured the headspace and test chambered several pieces of the new brass. Most would chamber. Some would not. I adjusted the sizing die to match the dimensions of those that would, sized and test chambered 50 pieces of the empty brass. Next I seated a .361gr. Flat Line bullet and a 400gr. Flat Line bullet to create dummy cartridges. Neither would chamber no matter how far seating depth was below “mag length.” This led me to check for a diagram of a loaded cartridge. On your website, the diagram shows a dimension of .4098 on a loaded round. Cadex, said they were using chamber reamers based off your specs. This means I have to turn the necks on the Peterson brass down to .012”. This would give the loaded round a thickness of .399” making the Whidden neck bushing of .397” correct. Please confirm this before I start neck turning.

If you read the entire .375CT vs .375 EnABELR thread at Sniper’s Hide, they absolutely trashed this cartridge. Not one person claiming to own one mentioned mandatory neck turning of “out of the box” Peterson brass which makes me question all the pro EnABLER comments. What else do I/ we need to know?"

Other questions not in the email:

Has AB abandoned the EnABLER? If so why?
Are there actual SAMMI specs? Or is this like the Dasher where everyone has their own version that they think works best?
Does anyone make "factory ammo?" If so, who?

@338Lapmag what brass did you use, where did you buy it and did you have to turn the necks? If not, what was the neck thickness of your brass?

Harwood · Oct 11, 2022

Well, I can't talk to the 375, as I am running a 338 but my dimensions are:

Petersen 338 EnABELR brass neck thickness 0.0155" (Using calipers...probably closer to 0.015" on a proper gauge)
Chamber diameter at neck (Per Manson print): 0.374"
Outside Neck Diameter of fired brass: 0.371"
Annealed Petersen brass resized in AB dies: 0.367"
With 300 Atip loaded 0.369"

So, no neck turning was required for me. I have 5 thou of clearance with as-purchased brass.

Geno C. · Oct 11, 2022

Harwood said:
Well, I can't talk to the 375, as I am running a 338 but my dimensions are:

Petersen 338 EnABELR brass neck thickness 0.0155" (Using calipers...probably closer to 0.015" on a proper gauge)
Chamber diameter at neck (Per Manson print): 0.374"
Outside Neck Diameter of fired brass: 0.371"
Annealed Petersen brass resized in AB dies: 0.367"
With 300 Atip loaded 0.369"

So, no neck turning was required for me. I have 5 thou of clearance with as-purchased brass.

What reamer did you use?

AWheeler · Oct 12, 2022

Hardholder439 said:
Emailed Amanda

"Hi Amanda:

My Cadex Defense Shadow in .375 EnABELR finally arrived after a 6 month wait. Prior to its’ delivery, I purchased 500 pieces of Peterson brass and Whidden dies from Applied Ballistics. The Whidden dies came with a .397 neck bushing which I thought strange as the neck thickness of the Peterson brass is .0155-.016. Combined with the bullet this makes for a neck measurement of .405-.406 neck thickness for loaded rounds. Based on past experience, I measured the headspace and test chambered several pieces of the new brass. Most would chamber. Some would not. I adjusted the sizing die to match the dimensions of those that would, sized and test chambered 50 pieces of the empty brass. Next I seated a .361gr. Flat Line bullet and a 400gr. Flat Line bullet to create dummy cartridges. Neither would chamber no matter how far seating depth was below “mag length.” This led me to check for a diagram of a loaded cartridge. On your website, the diagram shows a dimension of .4098 on a loaded round. Cadex, said they were using chamber reamers based off your specs. This means I have to turn the necks on the Peterson brass down to .012”. This would give the loaded round a thickness of .399” making the Whidden neck bushing of .397” correct. Please confirm this before I start neck turning.

If you read the entire .375CT vs .375 EnABELR thread at Sniper’s Hide, they absolutely trashed this cartridge. Not one person claiming to own one mentioned mandatory neck turning of “out of the box” Peterson brass which makes me question all the pro EnABLER comments. What else do I/ we need to know?"

Other questions not in the email:

Has AB abandoned the EnABLER? If so why?
Are there actual SAMMI specs? Or is this like the Dasher where everyone has their own version that they think works best?
Does anyone make "factory ammo?" If so, who?

@338Lapmag what brass did you use, where did you buy it and did you have to turn the necks? If not, what was the neck thickness of your brass?

Thank you for the email - I have shared it with the team and we will be emailing you back shortly. Never hesitate to email me any time!

Harwood · Oct 12, 2022

Geno C. said:
What reamer did you use?

Both barrels have been with a Manson reamer. Rev 0 dated 02/27/2019.

Sandow the Heretic · Oct 14, 2022

Hardholder439 said:
My Cadex Defense Shadow in .375 EnABELR finally arrived after a 6 month wait. Prior to its’ delivery, I purchased 500 pieces of Peterson brass and Whidden dies from Applied Ballistics. The Whidden dies came with a .397 neck bushing which I thought strange as the neck thickness of the Peterson brass is .0155-.016. Combined with the bullet this makes for a neck measurement of .405-.406 neck thickness for loaded rounds. Based on past experience, I measured the headspace and test chambered several pieces of the new brass. Most would chamber. Some would not. I adjusted the sizing die to match the dimensions of those that would, sized and test chambered 50 pieces of the empty brass. Next I seated a .361gr. Flat Line bullet and a 400gr. Flat Line bullet to create dummy cartridges. Neither would chamber no matter how far seating depth was below “mag length.” This led me to check for a diagram of a loaded cartridge. On your website, the diagram shows a dimension of .4098 on a loaded round. Cadex, said they were using chamber reamers based off your specs. This means I have to turn the necks on the Peterson brass down to .012”. This would give the loaded round a thickness of .399” making the Whidden neck bushing of .397” correct. Please confirm this before I start neck turning.

It is not particularly common practice anymore but have you cast your chamber? It is cheap and there is nothing that will give you a better picture of the dimensions. Might be something trivial like a piece of debris stuck in the neck. Having a cast before you have fired it will be a good reference against a casting after a pile of rounds.

-Alex

badassgunworks · Oct 15, 2022

Sandow the Heretic said:
It is not particularly common practice anymore but have you cast your chamber? It is cheap and there is nothing that will give you a better picture of the dimensions. Might be something trivial like a piece of debris stuck in the neck. Having a cast before you have fired it will be a good reference against a casting after a pile of rounds
-Alex

Measure the reamer that cut the chamber . If its matches its eather designed wrong or made wrong. End of story.

disky1 · Oct 21, 2022

Hardholder439, and Amanda is there any update to this?

Alien61 · Mar 4, 2023

yeah, any feedback?

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