No rimfire for SHTF

Daddyusmaximus

Daddyusmaximus

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May 3, 2020
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#1
I WAS thinking about something the other day.

Over on Rimfirecentral, there's a thread where everybody is trying to figure out what scope Joel, has on his rifle.

Screenshot (236).png


If you know, pipe up so I can go over there and make like I figured it out, and get points... lol.


Anyhow... Then I got sidetracked thinking about all the many variety of SHTF / EOTWAWKI movies and TV shows out there.
We keep seeing such a wide variety of firearms in them. (many without sights even)
However, the one that everyone (myself included if I'm honest) swears by for survival (the .22LR) is noticeably absent in every single one.

Saying goes something like this... "You can carry a couple bricks of .22 in a pack, and it will last you for years."

Nope. I don't recall ever seeing a rimfire rifle in a SHTF film or TV show. What gives?
We all know Hollywood gets most everything wrong about firearms anyway, but damn...
Where's the old fart walking the wasteland with his trusty little .22LR lever gun? Or 10/22, or Nylon 66, or Sears and Roebuck Model 25, or whatever...?
 
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#11

DFOOSKING​

"Zombie movies are dumb. I keep thinking not only are they not scary...but Zombie hordes might actually be fun...."

Try John Ringo's "Black Tide" series of Z-plague. Seven books worth of fun ;-O He also has several other 'Series's of SF that are fun, too.
 
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#12
Daddyusmaximus said:
I WAS thinking about something the other day.

Over on Rimfirecentral, there's a thread where everybody is trying to figure out what scope Joel, has on his rifle.

View attachment 8106908

If you know, pipe up so I can go over there and make like I figured it out, and get points... lol.


Anyhow... Then I got sidetracked thinking about all the many variety of SHTF / EOTWAWKI movies and TV shows out there.
We keep seeing such a wide variety of firearms in them. (many without sights even)
However, the one that everyone (myself included if I'm honest) swears by for survival (the .22LR) is noticeably absent in every single one.

Saying goes something like this... "You can carry a couple bricks of .22 in a pack, and it will last you for years."

Nope. I don't recall ever seeing a rimfire rifle in a SHTF film or TV show. What gives?
We all know Hollywood gets most everything wrong about firearms anyway, but damn...
Where's the old fart walking the wasteland with his trusty little .22LR lever gun? Or 10/22, or Nylon 66, or Sears and Roebuck Model 25, or whatever...?
Click to expand...
Now I'm sitting here trying to remember where I've seen this scene before...

What movie is it from?
 
#15
When i go camping and hiking i alsmost allways have my AR7 dropped in my pack and ruger 22/45 -lite either in the pack holster or on my belt holster just depends on what pack im using.
The accuracy of the little AR7 has surprised me, not sure of the newer ones as i havent shot any of the newest manufacture.
 
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#18
It is worth remembering that the old Deringer pistols (carried in waistcoat pockets) were scary because any bullet wound was scary, particularly if fabric was carried into the wound. If/when SHTF happens, readily accessible supplies of antibiotics (including penicillin alternatives for some people) might become a rarity. Same reason that 7.65 Browning and similar chamberings became so popular, prior to widespread availability of penicillin and latterly flucloxacillin, etcetera. The 9mm Parabellum craze could be argued, in some ways, as a consequence of medical advances.
 
#19
Another that believes in a true Teotwaki situation that stealth and avoidance is going to be the key for survival for most people.

And yes a person that does not have the advantage of hunkering down in place and is traveling a lot more .22lr can be carried than larger calibers from both a weight and round count and packing room perspective.

A suppressed .22 bolt action with a reasonable scope along with back up iron sights on the gun shooting sv ammo would be a simple, very reliable and stealthy package.

I have actually even been considering getting a nice break barrel air rifle in either .22 or .25 caliber as you can buy a moderator or suppressor for one of those without doing the whole NFA tax stamp routine.

Again very simple and if small game in the dinner pot was your primary goal would still do the trick.
 
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#20
When I think of SHTF scenarios I think of what ammo is most likely to be found in a majority of households of gun owners. I've settled on 22LR, 9mm, 30-06, .308, .270 win and 38 Special/357 Mag. All those super whizzbang calibers out there are good until you need to 'acquire' more ammo. Then you are likely SOL.
 
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#22
-.22 is nasty. It can enter the butt cheek, bounce around between organs and bones and come out the armpit or neck. I don’t want to suffer that fate.
-.22 is excellent for gathering small game, easy to shoot and as previously mentioned, ammo is readily available.
-If food becomes scarce you can bet that the deer and other forms of big game will quickly disappear. Small game will also but not so quickly and will be easier to find long after big game are scarce. The starving hordes will be scouring for anything to eat.
-A .22 and a shotgun are needed tools but I believe other means are essential to protect yourself and those you love, any food you do have from the masses. Hunger is a strong motivator. Starvation is a horrible thing.
I wouldn’t put it past some to resort to cannibalism even.
- I have my .22s and even a couple of .22 conversion kits for AR-15 for training my wife and others of my clan.
These can also be suppressed.
-These are my opinions and views of the value of .22LR.
Nothing here forum member’s don’t already know I’m sure.
 
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#25
Love that people still repeat that and believe it.
Often people who should know better.

Always reminds me of the hack piece on Tv years ago about the evil "Black Talons". The little animation showed the bullet rotating like a buzz saw (you know, where you'd need a barrel twist of about 65 turns per inch to match) , plus the bullet "bouncing around" like a pinball, making multiple 110-170 degree turns, before finally exiting. Physics be damned! :D
 
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#27
I have actually seen a post mortem on someone shot with a 22lr revolver. It did, in fact, bounce around several times before exiting. The entrance was from behind, under the scapula and the exit was directly between the belly buttom and groin. I never believed that "myth" until I saw it in person. It made a helluva mess....basically looked like a small pencil got shoved through his heart, liver, kidney and bladder
 
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#28
cas6969 said:
Love that people still repeat that and believe it.
Often people who should know better.

Always reminds me of the hack piece on Tv years ago about the evil "Black Talons". The little animation showed the bullet rotating like a buzz saw (you know, where you'd need a barrel twist of about 65 turns per inch to match) , plus the bullet "bouncing around" like a pinball, making multiple 110-170 degree turns, before finally exiting. Physics be damned! :D
Click to expand...
I remember that piece. They said the bullet exploded when in fact it was just the petals of the hollow point opening up just like any other HP.
I was just a young Corporal then and I said: I gotta get me some of those! So I did. "Black Talons".
Winchester rebranded it and sold it as Ranger ammo without the black lubalox coating which was supposed to create less less friction and fouling in the barrel. It was not "Armor Piercing" as the anti gunner TV piece claimed.
I've studied ballistics and wound cavities a lot yet, don't claim to be an expert.
As a retired GySgt and a combat veteran times over I know better now than to believe the propaganda spun by the Socialist Progressives.
I do read as much as I can get a hold of official reports on defensive encounters, autopsy reports, police encounters, FBI statistics and everything firearms related than I can encounter. I am a critical thinker. I'm not a know it all though and that's my mantra To each his own.
 
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#29
re the Talons. one of my friends is a baker, he was in a small kosher bakery all alone one morning about 3am, and decided to try something,
so he put a couple boxes of the shortening/dough conditioner they used and stood back across the room
and using a Glock 22, put a round of 40 cal Black Talon in the center of the block,

I don't recall what he said the penetration was, but he dug it out and it did open up like it was supposed to,

pretty damn impressive and the 'talons' were sharp,

did not bounce around any, and he cut the center out and used the rest for that day's production,
 
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#31
my .02-i have always said that if i could only have 1 gun,it would be a 22lr HG. can carry it anywhere/how/weather; always can be accessible even doing other jobs. ammo access as stated above. 22 will kill a lot of stuff in right setting and no bad guy (with a brain) will trade a 22 hit to give evil a try with no medical access. having a bigger caliber will in no way make always being on the defensive less reasonable. being agressive and offensive in SHTF makes no sense unless you have a group that is capable and trustworthy-LOL.
 
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#34
I also like 22lr for a lot of things. The one thing that always bothers me for self defense is the number of rounds that DON'T go bang. I tend to shoot pretty good ammo and I would say, across 5 differnt guns, about 1 in 200 misfires.

ETA- scope looks like a Covenant Tactical to me.
 
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#35
A .22 would be my first choice as a survival arm, no surprise to those that know me. As for SHTF scenarios, I guess it depends on where you fall on the zombie scale. Some survivors go for the Castle type of life, the basic human desire to have a permanent defendable “home”.
One thing history has shown is no castle is perfect. From Masada to Alcatraz, breaking in or out, ingenuity will find a way.
As for those with the nomadic slant, while there is no “defensive wall”, there is always the option of leaving sooner rather than becoming involved in a prolonged battle for supplies/food.
I hope we never have to experience it for real.
 
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#36
to me the nomadic scenario will be the most successful eg. mongol conquest,semi nomadic zulu nation,western tribes in america lasted longer than sedentary eastern tribes,almost 100% victories in WW2 of offense over defense. i know some of that is "warfare" but the point is the same. i will go with stay in place as at my age,and anyone over 50,has no chance to survive even a short lived total breakdown "armageddon".
 
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#37
Don't have many duds, or feeding problems with decent .22 ammo. Can carry lots of ammo, can do 8" head shots to 100yds or so, 100+ it might do a headshot or at least ruin somebodies day and to discourage any interactions. With a suppressor you don't give away a position, and with longer distances the sound report is minimal. Also almost zero recoil so can pretty much rapid fire a 25rd mag with all aimed shots in a 10/22 or a AR22 carbine. Seen a picture long ago with IDF running around with suppressed 10/22's, and they weren't being used to hunt food...
 
#38
QUALITY 22lr ammo AND a dependable, well maintained weapon will deliver accuracy without 'duds' or misfires. If you're experiencing 'duds' and feeding/extraction issues in your 22lr, THAT is not your SHTF weapon. It will get you killed.
 
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#39
What ammo are you guys using that produces zero misfires?
The IDF guys with 22s are backed up by people with more lethal options.
If you are talking fantasy zombie BS then a 22 is 100% in my make believe go bag. But for a actual SHTF situation where I expect civil unrest and possible armed conflict with other people it 100% would be a secondary. Yes, lack of medical treatment would make most GSW lethal, but not before most likely both parties have sustained them.
 
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#40
moosemeat said:
What ammo are you guys using that produces zero misfires?
The IDF guys with 22s are backed up by people with more lethal options.
If you are talking fantasy zombie BS then a 22 is 100% in my make believe go bag. But for an actual SHTF situation where I expect civil unrest and possible armed conflict with other people it 100% would be a secondary. Yes, lack of medical treatment would make most GSW lethal, but not before most likely both parties have sustained them.
Click to expand...
I fired 17000 rounds of NAMMO made Wolf Match Target before I had a failure to fire on the first strike (cycled bolt and it fired on the second). Not a bad average.
 
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#41
If you are having misfires with a clean maintained gun and good quality ammo check the "headspace". Rim thickness vs bolt nose recess.

Thank you,
MrSmith
 
#44
Daddyusmaximus said:
I WAS thinking about something the other day.

Over on Rimfirecentral, there's a thread where everybody is trying to figure out what scope Joel, has on his rifle.

View attachment 8106908

If you know, pipe up so I can go over there and make like I figured it out, and get points... lol.


Anyhow... Then I got sidetracked thinking about all the many variety of SHTF / EOTWAWKI movies and TV shows out there.
We keep seeing such a wide variety of firearms in them. (many without sights even)
However, the one that everyone (myself included if I'm honest) swears by for survival (the .22LR) is noticeably absent in every single one.

Saying goes something like this... "You can carry a couple bricks of .22 in a pack, and it will last you for years."

Nope. I don't recall ever seeing a rimfire rifle in a SHTF film or TV show. What gives?
We all know Hollywood gets most everything wrong about firearms anyway, but damn...
Where's the old fart walking the wasteland with his trusty little .22LR lever gun? Or 10/22, or Nylon 66, or Sears and Roebuck Model 25, or whatever...?
Click to expand...
10/22; Here you go!
 
#46
I have always felt in a true TEOTWAWKI situation stealth and avoidance for the average person is going to be a big key to survival.
Sure .22lr is not a battle caliber and not the best for self defense but can be a key in survival small game hunting and self defense in a pinch.

A person forced to be mobile and not out of a home base a lot of sense can be made for the amount of .22lr ammunition a person can reasonably carry due to its smaller size and more importantly weight in a world where ammo will not be available in most cases.

Even scrounging ammo the chances of finding rimfire .22lr ammo stashed in a drawer or on a closet shelf in an empty house will probably be much better than most any other caliber because most all gun owners are apt to have at least one rimfire laying around the house.

I for one would think long and hard before totally discounting a rimfire rifle as being one of my realistic choices in certain scenarios
 
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#48
XLR308 said:
When i go camping and hiking i alsmost allways have my AR7 dropped in my pack and ruger 22/45 -lite either in the pack holster or on my belt holster just depends on what pack im using.
The accuracy of the little AR7 has surprised me, not sure of the newer ones as i havent shot any of the newest manufacture.
Click to expand...
When I am sitting around the house, outside working, driving to the store, pushing the shopping cart for the wife, over at a family gathering....
I have a Beretta 21A in FDE threaded barrel in my right front pocket sans holster. I rarely carry the Gemtech Outback on me but it makes it more quiet.
I mean, I do like to carry, and often do, one of my many fuddgun 1911 variants but this little pistol is on my person near 100%. Sure...it's only a 22LR but I'd damned sure not want one placed in my ear canal with a punch. Or a kidney punch. Or a throat punch. Or even a bitch slap.

Sometimes, if I'm feeling real brave and manly, I carry the Beretta 3032 instead.
 
#49
Daddyusmaximus said:
I WAS thinking about something the other day.

Over on Rimfirecentral, there's a thread where everybody is trying to figure out what scope Joel, has on his rifle.

View attachment 8106908

If you know, pipe up so I can go over there and make like I figured it out, and get points... lol.


Anyhow... Then I got sidetracked thinking about all the many variety of SHTF / EOTWAWKI movies and TV shows out there.
We keep seeing such a wide variety of firearms in them. (many without sights even)
However, the one that everyone (myself included if I'm honest) swears by for survival (the .22LR) is noticeably absent in every single one.

Saying goes something like this... "You can carry a couple bricks of .22 in a pack, and it will last you for years."

Nope. I don't recall ever seeing a rimfire rifle in a SHTF film or TV show. What gives?
We all know Hollywood gets most everything wrong about firearms anyway, but damn...
Where's the old fart walking the wasteland with his trusty little .22LR lever gun? Or 10/22, or Nylon 66, or Sears and Roebuck Model 25, or whatever...?
Click to expand...
Because it’s Hollyweird, where reality doesn’t matter and bigger is better.

Plus, depending upon the movie and its premise, if one is alone and having to move about all the time, carrying only one long arm to do it all, there might be a tough choice based upon situation, locale and intent.
 
#50
XLR308 said:
When i go camping and hiking i almost always have my AR7 dropped in my pack and Ruger 22/45 -lite either in the pack holster or on my belt holster just depends on what pack im using.
The accuracy of the little AR7 has surprised me, not sure of the newer ones as i haven't shot any of the newest manufacture.
Click to expand...
My BIL recently purchased the newest variant of the AR7 made by Henry.

1715872233303.jpeg


I took it to the range last weekend and was able to make 16 shot groups (two mags) at 50 feet slightly under an inch from sandbag rest. The groups were dead center with no adjustments needed. The stock sights are decent (fixed peep rear with two aperture choices, somewhat windage adjustable orange front that is a little too wide for my tastes), and the trigger has got to be 8 pounds or more and not anywhere near what I would call "crisp." But overall, it's a great little breakdown rifle that is very light weight, accurate enough, and serves its intended purpose well.

One side note, the stock is VERY thick, due to the need to place the receiver inside of it. It is not uncomfortable to hold and aim, but it's not great either. And there is a bias in the design for right handed shooters. The receiver is not centered, but pushed to one side, when installed. If you are left handed, be sure to check one out in person to make sure you feel the fit works for you.

I have Marlin 70SS that I like better by every measure there is over the AR7, but it's no longer sold I think. And it's a bummer that model did not come factory threaded. Still wondering if it's worth threading it since I have 4 other .22's that are factory threaded.
1715871739168.jpeg
 
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