No rimfire for SHTF

Daddyusmaximus · Mar 28, 2023

I WAS thinking about something the other day.

Over on Rimfirecentral, there's a thread where everybody is trying to figure out what scope Joel, has on his rifle.

If you know, pipe up so I can go over there and make like I figured it out, and get points... lol.

Anyhow... Then I got sidetracked thinking about all the many variety of SHTF / EOTWAWKI movies and TV shows out there.
We keep seeing such a wide variety of firearms in them. (many without sights even)
However, the one that everyone (myself included if I'm honest) swears by for survival (the .22LR) is noticeably absent in every single one.

Saying goes something like this... "You can carry a couple bricks of .22 in a pack, and it will last you for years."

Nope. I don't recall ever seeing a rimfire rifle in a SHTF film or TV show. What gives?
We all know Hollywood gets most everything wrong about firearms anyway, but damn...
Where's the old fart walking the wasteland with his trusty little .22LR lever gun? Or 10/22, or Nylon 66, or Sears and Roebuck Model 25, or whatever...?

Topstrap · Mar 28, 2023

In the book "One Second After" it comes down to 22 rimfire rounds being a highly valued trading commodity.

Still think the lowly 22 rimfire is one of the most underrated cartridges available.

Topstrap

Daddyusmaximus · Mar 28, 2023

Topstrap said:
In the book "One Second After" it comes down to 22 rimfire rounds being a highly valued trading commodity.

Still think the lowly 22 rimfire is one of the most underrated cartridges available.

Topstrap

Did the first 3 on Audible. Waiting for Aug when the new one drops.

DFOOSKING · Mar 28, 2023

Zombie movies are dumb. I keep thinking not only are they not scary...but Zombie hordes might actually be fun.

Anb618 · Mar 28, 2023

Looks like a Cabela’s Covenant Tactical optic.

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/cabelas-covenant-7-tactical-rifle-scope

^That might not be the exact model/magnification, but gets you close enough for the win IMO.

woogie_man · Mar 28, 2023

In my mind the .22 would be great for hunting and food gathering. Be great for the quiet times, but still need something larger as well. Many times in war the 22lr has been used for clandestine ops. So not totally out of the question.

nockhunter · Mar 28, 2023

A 22lr would be great for feeding you. Lots of small game and not so small game to be had with a single shot to the head.

Mike

BG94591 · Mar 28, 2023

I have a Nylon 66, thing just works. I got it from my grandfather when he was no longer able to take care of himself. It was missing a part so I had to scour the net and find it. Now it works and functions flawless. It’ll be my SHTF .22

MajorD · Mar 28, 2023

While I think we all agree something heavier ( both long gun and handgun) would definitely be useful, lots of chores can be handled well with the 22, and there are plenty of bad guys 6 foot under courtesy of a 22

Defender32 · Mar 29, 2023

I have 2 17HMR rifles that will be grabbed as well as a 17HMR revolver. the other is 223 & 308.

As far as your scope question have NO IDEA!!!!!!

Fasteddie01 · Mar 29, 2023

DFOOSKING

"Zombie movies are dumb. I keep thinking not only are they not scary...but Zombie hordes might actually be fun...."

Try John Ringo's "Black Tide" series of Z-plague. Seven books worth of fun ;-O He also has several other 'Series's of SF that are fun, too.

Rolltide · Apr 23, 2023

Daddyusmaximus said:
I WAS thinking about something the other day.

Over on Rimfirecentral, there's a thread where everybody is trying to figure out what scope Joel, has on his rifle.

View attachment 8106908

If you know, pipe up so I can go over there and make like I figured it out, and get points... lol.

Anyhow... Then I got sidetracked thinking about all the many variety of SHTF / EOTWAWKI movies and TV shows out there.
We keep seeing such a wide variety of firearms in them. (many without sights even)
However, the one that everyone (myself included if I'm honest) swears by for survival (the .22LR) is noticeably absent in every single one.

Saying goes something like this... "You can carry a couple bricks of .22 in a pack, and it will last you for years."

Nope. I don't recall ever seeing a rimfire rifle in a SHTF film or TV show. What gives?
We all know Hollywood gets most everything wrong about firearms anyway, but damn...
Where's the old fart walking the wasteland with his trusty little .22LR lever gun? Or 10/22, or Nylon 66, or Sears and Roebuck Model 25, or whatever...?

Now I'm sitting here trying to remember where I've seen this scene before...

What movie is it from?

BugIn762 · Apr 23, 2023

It's "Last of Us".

BugIn762 · Apr 23, 2023

The Mandalorian and Lady Mormont.

I'm ashamed that I know that.

XLR308 · Apr 23, 2023

When i go camping and hiking i alsmost allways have my AR7 dropped in my pack and ruger 22/45 -lite either in the pack holster or on my belt holster just depends on what pack im using.
The accuracy of the little AR7 has surprised me, not sure of the newer ones as i havent shot any of the newest manufacture.

pineoak · Apr 23, 2023

just another tool in the toolbox, need a variety

Booner1334 · Apr 24, 2023

I'm rather surprised that no one has mentioned the value of a suppressed .22 in a true SHTF/EOTWAWKI situation.
If such a thing were to occur, the world would be very quiet place, and the sound of a gunshot could attract unwanted guests.

ZG47A · Apr 24, 2023

It is worth remembering that the old Deringer pistols (carried in waistcoat pockets) were scary because any bullet wound was scary, particularly if fabric was carried into the wound. If/when SHTF happens, readily accessible supplies of antibiotics (including penicillin alternatives for some people) might become a rarity. Same reason that 7.65 Browning and similar chamberings became so popular, prior to widespread availability of penicillin and latterly flucloxacillin, etcetera. The 9mm Parabellum craze could be argued, in some ways, as a consequence of medical advances.

BILL7532 · Apr 24, 2023

Another that believes in a true Teotwaki situation that stealth and avoidance is going to be the key for survival for most people.

And yes a person that does not have the advantage of hunkering down in place and is traveling a lot more .22lr can be carried than larger calibers from both a weight and round count and packing room perspective.

A suppressed .22 bolt action with a reasonable scope along with back up iron sights on the gun shooting sv ammo would be a simple, very reliable and stealthy package.

I have actually even been considering getting a nice break barrel air rifle in either .22 or .25 caliber as you can buy a moderator or suppressor for one of those without doing the whole NFA tax stamp routine.

Again very simple and if small game in the dinner pot was your primary goal would still do the trick.

WileyG · Apr 24, 2023

When I think of SHTF scenarios I think of what ammo is most likely to be found in a majority of households of gun owners. I've settled on 22LR, 9mm, 30-06, .308, .270 win and 38 Special/357 Mag. All those super whizzbang calibers out there are good until you need to 'acquire' more ammo. Then you are likely SOL.

Kadams1563 · Apr 24, 2023

Suppressed .22 rifle and pistol is going to be great for a lot of situations. Hell I have shot pests in the back yard without the neighbors even hearing it. 9mm suppressed not so much lol. Damn bolt on the scorpion is loud.

Gunny G · Jul 6, 2023

-.22 is nasty. It can enter the butt cheek, bounce around between organs and bones and come out the armpit or neck. I don’t want to suffer that fate.
-.22 is excellent for gathering small game, easy to shoot and as previously mentioned, ammo is readily available.
-If food becomes scarce you can bet that the deer and other forms of big game will quickly disappear. Small game will also but not so quickly and will be easier to find long after big game are scarce. The starving hordes will be scouring for anything to eat.
-A .22 and a shotgun are needed tools but I believe other means are essential to protect yourself and those you love, any food you do have from the masses. Hunger is a strong motivator. Starvation is a horrible thing.
I wouldn’t put it past some to resort to cannibalism even.
- I have my .22s and even a couple of .22 conversion kits for AR-15 for training my wife and others of my clan.
These can also be suppressed.
-These are my opinions and views of the value of .22LR.
Nothing here forum member’s don’t already know I’m sure.

Basher · Jul 6, 2023

Gunny G said:
-.22 is nasty. It can enter the butt cheek, bounce around between organs and bones and come out the armpit or neck. I don’t want to suffer that fate.

Hang on, hang on, let me grab my popcorn before we really get this show going…

Trung Si Ma · Jul 6, 2023

Basher said:
Hang on, hang on, let me grab my popcorn before we really get this show going…

I've got some butter, salt, and Vernors - we can sit in the recliners and make stupid comments!

cas6969 · Jul 6, 2023

Love that people still repeat that and believe it.
Often people who should know better.

Always reminds me of the hack piece on Tv years ago about the evil "Black Talons". The little animation showed the bullet rotating like a buzz saw (you know, where you'd need a barrel twist of about 65 turns per inch to match) , plus the bullet "bouncing around" like a pinball, making multiple 110-170 degree turns, before finally exiting. Physics be damned!

Gunny G · Jul 6, 2023

Yea,
They don’t bounce off ribs and bones and change direction in some instances.
I stand corrected.
I’m not a physics professor.
You win

wvfarrier · Jul 6, 2023

I have actually seen a post mortem on someone shot with a 22lr revolver. It did, in fact, bounce around several times before exiting. The entrance was from behind, under the scapula and the exit was directly between the belly buttom and groin. I never believed that "myth" until I saw it in person. It made a helluva mess....basically looked like a small pencil got shoved through his heart, liver, kidney and bladder

Gunny G · Jul 6, 2023

cas6969 said:
Love that people still repeat that and believe it.
Often people who should know better.

Always reminds me of the hack piece on Tv years ago about the evil "Black Talons". The little animation showed the bullet rotating like a buzz saw (you know, where you'd need a barrel twist of about 65 turns per inch to match) , plus the bullet "bouncing around" like a pinball, making multiple 110-170 degree turns, before finally exiting. Physics be damned!

I remember that piece. They said the bullet exploded when in fact it was just the petals of the hollow point opening up just like any other HP.
I was just a young Corporal then and I said: I gotta get me some of those! So I did. "Black Talons".
Winchester rebranded it and sold it as Ranger ammo without the black lubalox coating which was supposed to create less less friction and fouling in the barrel. It was not "Armor Piercing" as the anti gunner TV piece claimed.
I've studied ballistics and wound cavities a lot yet, don't claim to be an expert.
As a retired GySgt and a combat veteran times over I know better now than to believe the propaganda spun by the Socialist Progressives.
I do read as much as I can get a hold of official reports on defensive encounters, autopsy reports, police encounters, FBI statistics and everything firearms related than I can encounter. I am a critical thinker. I'm not a know it all though and that's my mantra To each his own.

lyman · Jul 6, 2023

re the Talons. one of my friends is a baker, he was in a small kosher bakery all alone one morning about 3am, and decided to try something,
so he put a couple boxes of the shortening/dough conditioner they used and stood back across the room
and using a Glock 22, put a round of 40 cal Black Talon in the center of the block,

I don't recall what he said the penetration was, but he dug it out and it did open up like it was supposed to,

pretty damn impressive and the 'talons' were sharp,

did not bounce around any, and he cut the center out and used the rest for that day's production,

SortOfClear · Jul 6, 2023

The "problem" that killed the Black Talons was medical responders getting their gloves and fingers sliced open while treating GSW. Petals would disconnect from bullet body, etc.

mosin46 · Jul 6, 2023

my .02-i have always said that if i could only have 1 gun,it would be a 22lr HG. can carry it anywhere/how/weather; always can be accessible even doing other jobs. ammo access as stated above. 22 will kill a lot of stuff in right setting and no bad guy (with a brain) will trade a 22 hit to give evil a try with no medical access. having a bigger caliber will in no way make always being on the defensive less reasonable. being agressive and offensive in SHTF makes no sense unless you have a group that is capable and trustworthy-LOL.

cas6969 · Jul 6, 2023

MAXIMUM DEADLY!

WileyG · Jul 6, 2023

Suppressed subsonic .22lr can be a game changer in a multitude of situations.

moosemeat · Jul 6, 2023

I also like 22lr for a lot of things. The one thing that always bothers me for self defense is the number of rounds that DON'T go bang. I tend to shoot pretty good ammo and I would say, across 5 differnt guns, about 1 in 200 misfires.

ETA- scope looks like a Covenant Tactical to me.

obx22 · Jul 7, 2023

A .22 would be my first choice as a survival arm, no surprise to those that know me. As for SHTF scenarios, I guess it depends on where you fall on the zombie scale. Some survivors go for the Castle type of life, the basic human desire to have a permanent defendable “home”.
One thing history has shown is no castle is perfect. From Masada to Alcatraz, breaking in or out, ingenuity will find a way.
As for those with the nomadic slant, while there is no “defensive wall”, there is always the option of leaving sooner rather than becoming involved in a prolonged battle for supplies/food.
I hope we never have to experience it for real.

mosin46 · Jul 7, 2023

to me the nomadic scenario will be the most successful eg. mongol conquest,semi nomadic zulu nation,western tribes in america lasted longer than sedentary eastern tribes,almost 100% victories in WW2 of offense over defense. i know some of that is "warfare" but the point is the same. i will go with stay in place as at my age,and anyone over 50,has no chance to survive even a short lived total breakdown "armageddon".

Sc0- · Jul 8, 2023

Don't have many duds, or feeding problems with decent .22 ammo. Can carry lots of ammo, can do 8" head shots to 100yds or so, 100+ it might do a headshot or at least ruin somebodies day and to discourage any interactions. With a suppressor you don't give away a position, and with longer distances the sound report is minimal. Also almost zero recoil so can pretty much rapid fire a 25rd mag with all aimed shots in a 10/22 or a AR22 carbine. Seen a picture long ago with IDF running around with suppressed 10/22's, and they weren't being used to hunt food...

WileyG · Jul 8, 2023

QUALITY 22lr ammo AND a dependable, well maintained weapon will deliver accuracy without 'duds' or misfires. If you're experiencing 'duds' and feeding/extraction issues in your 22lr, THAT is not your SHTF weapon. It will get you killed.

moosemeat · Jul 9, 2023

What ammo are you guys using that produces zero misfires?
The IDF guys with 22s are backed up by people with more lethal options.
If you are talking fantasy zombie BS then a 22 is 100% in my make believe go bag. But for a actual SHTF situation where I expect civil unrest and possible armed conflict with other people it 100% would be a secondary. Yes, lack of medical treatment would make most GSW lethal, but not before most likely both parties have sustained them.

obx22 · Jul 9, 2023

moosemeat said:
What ammo are you guys using that produces zero misfires?
The IDF guys with 22s are backed up by people with more lethal options.
If you are talking fantasy zombie BS then a 22 is 100% in my make believe go bag. But for an actual SHTF situation where I expect civil unrest and possible armed conflict with other people it 100% would be a secondary. Yes, lack of medical treatment would make most GSW lethal, but not before most likely both parties have sustained them.

I fired 17000 rounds of NAMMO made Wolf Match Target before I had a failure to fire on the first strike (cycled bolt and it fired on the second). Not a bad average.

MrSmith · Jul 9, 2023

If you are having misfires with a clean maintained gun and good quality ammo check the "headspace". Rim thickness vs bolt nose recess.

Thank you,
MrSmith

JerkyFreak · Jul 9, 2023

My math sucks!

JerkyFreak · Jul 9, 2023

I have sp9ken to someone that carried a 22lr pistol. According to him, after a few weeks the ammo became unreliable. His theory is that the priming compound gets worn away by the powder movement.

Might be something to test.

BAMAboy18 · May 14, 2024

Daddyusmaximus said:
I WAS thinking about something the other day.

Over on Rimfirecentral, there's a thread where everybody is trying to figure out what scope Joel, has on his rifle.

View attachment 8106908

If you know, pipe up so I can go over there and make like I figured it out, and get points... lol.

Anyhow... Then I got sidetracked thinking about all the many variety of SHTF / EOTWAWKI movies and TV shows out there.
We keep seeing such a wide variety of firearms in them. (many without sights even)
However, the one that everyone (myself included if I'm honest) swears by for survival (the .22LR) is noticeably absent in every single one.

Saying goes something like this... "You can carry a couple bricks of .22 in a pack, and it will last you for years."

Nope. I don't recall ever seeing a rimfire rifle in a SHTF film or TV show. What gives?
We all know Hollywood gets most everything wrong about firearms anyway, but damn...
Where's the old fart walking the wasteland with his trusty little .22LR lever gun? Or 10/22, or Nylon 66, or Sears and Roebuck Model 25, or whatever...?

10/22; Here you go!

CrashKT · May 14, 2024

woogie_man said:
woogie_man said:

In my mind the .22 would be great for hunting and food gathering. Be great for the quiet times, but still need something larger as well. Many times in war the 22lr has been used for clandestine ops. So not totally out of the question.

Click to expand...

The IDF uses the 10/22 currently.

BILL7532 · May 14, 2024

I have always felt in a true TEOTWAWKI situation stealth and avoidance for the average person is going to be a big key to survival.
Sure .22lr is not a battle caliber and not the best for self defense but can be a key in survival small game hunting and self defense in a pinch.

A person forced to be mobile and not out of a home base a lot of sense can be made for the amount of .22lr ammunition a person can reasonably carry due to its smaller size and more importantly weight in a world where ammo will not be available in most cases.

Even scrounging ammo the chances of finding rimfire .22lr ammo stashed in a drawer or on a closet shelf in an empty house will probably be much better than most any other caliber because most all gun owners are apt to have at least one rimfire laying around the house.

I for one would think long and hard before totally discounting a rimfire rifle as being one of my realistic choices in certain scenarios

carbonbased · May 14, 2024

The most important thing in a TEOTWAWKI situation is to have friends with arms. A lot of them.

And oh yeah, access to water. And food.

Being some solo sneaky-ass ninja is waaaaaay down the list lol

Solo/near solo dudes are just going to get mopped up.

Aftermath · May 14, 2024

XLR308 said:
When i go camping and hiking i alsmost allways have my AR7 dropped in my pack and ruger 22/45 -lite either in the pack holster or on my belt holster just depends on what pack im using.
The accuracy of the little AR7 has surprised me, not sure of the newer ones as i havent shot any of the newest manufacture.

When I am sitting around the house, outside working, driving to the store, pushing the shopping cart for the wife, over at a family gathering....
I have a Beretta 21A in FDE threaded barrel in my right front pocket sans holster. I rarely carry the Gemtech Outback on me but it makes it more quiet.
I mean, I do like to carry, and often do, one of my many fuddgun 1911 variants but this little pistol is on my person near 100%. Sure...it's only a 22LR but I'd damned sure not want one placed in my ear canal with a punch. Or a kidney punch. Or a throat punch. Or even a bitch slap.

Sometimes, if I'm feeling real brave and manly, I carry the Beretta 3032 instead.

lash · May 14, 2024

Daddyusmaximus said:
I WAS thinking about something the other day.

Over on Rimfirecentral, there's a thread where everybody is trying to figure out what scope Joel, has on his rifle.

View attachment 8106908

If you know, pipe up so I can go over there and make like I figured it out, and get points... lol.

Anyhow... Then I got sidetracked thinking about all the many variety of SHTF / EOTWAWKI movies and TV shows out there.
We keep seeing such a wide variety of firearms in them. (many without sights even)
However, the one that everyone (myself included if I'm honest) swears by for survival (the .22LR) is noticeably absent in every single one.

Saying goes something like this... "You can carry a couple bricks of .22 in a pack, and it will last you for years."

Nope. I don't recall ever seeing a rimfire rifle in a SHTF film or TV show. What gives?
We all know Hollywood gets most everything wrong about firearms anyway, but damn...
Where's the old fart walking the wasteland with his trusty little .22LR lever gun? Or 10/22, or Nylon 66, or Sears and Roebuck Model 25, or whatever...?

Because it’s Hollyweird, where reality doesn’t matter and bigger is better.

Plus, depending upon the movie and its premise, if one is alone and having to move about all the time, carrying only one long arm to do it all, there might be a tough choice based upon situation, locale and intent.

davidsaidwhat · May 16, 2024

XLR308 said:
When i go camping and hiking i almost always have my AR7 dropped in my pack and Ruger 22/45 -lite either in the pack holster or on my belt holster just depends on what pack im using.
The accuracy of the little AR7 has surprised me, not sure of the newer ones as i haven't shot any of the newest manufacture.

My BIL recently purchased the newest variant of the AR7 made by Henry.

I took it to the range last weekend and was able to make 16 shot groups (two mags) at 50 feet slightly under an inch from sandbag rest. The groups were dead center with no adjustments needed. The stock sights are decent (fixed peep rear with two aperture choices, somewhat windage adjustable orange front that is a little too wide for my tastes), and the trigger has got to be 8 pounds or more and not anywhere near what I would call "crisp." But overall, it's a great little breakdown rifle that is very light weight, accurate enough, and serves its intended purpose well.

One side note, the stock is VERY thick, due to the need to place the receiver inside of it. It is not uncomfortable to hold and aim, but it's not great either. And there is a bias in the design for right handed shooters. The receiver is not centered, but pushed to one side, when installed. If you are left handed, be sure to check one out in person to make sure you feel the fit works for you.

I have Marlin 70SS that I like better by every measure there is over the AR7, but it's no longer sold I think. And it's a bummer that model did not come factory threaded. Still wondering if it's worth threading it since I have 4 other .22's that are factory threaded.

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