S&B Klassik field use

Bakwa

Bakwa

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    • Mar 22, 2017
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    #1
    I have a Tikka CTR 20" 6.5 that I've been using as a crossover target shooting and hunting rifle. It's worn everything from Steiner 3-15 & 1-4 to a NXS 2.5-10 depending on what I was using it for.

    It's now time to rebarrel so I'm planning on making it a more field/hunting dedicated setup. It's probably going to get a 18" 3b in 6.5.

    So I'm looking into good versatile optic options to dedicate to this old rifle, newly barreled into a dedicated hunting rifle.
    Namely, the Klassik 3-12x42 L3 since it's on sale.
    www.eurooptic.com

    Schmidt Bender Klassik 3-12x42 30mm Reticle P3 .1mRad CW Riflescope 645-811-882-05-05A02

    Schmidt Bender Hunting 3-12x42 30mm 645-811-882-05-05A02 | Only at EuroOptic.com!
    www.eurooptic.com www.eurooptic.com

    I'm looking for a lower magnification range, light weight, great glass, and usable reticle for hold out to 400yds.
    This seems to be it.

    How does it hold up?
    Is it pretty durable?
    Is the glass appropriate for its price range or is it more like the Razor LHT?
    Are there other good options I'm overlooking?
    I'm trying to make an educated decision.
     
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    #2
    Not sure if this helps but I recently picked up the 4-16 model with the same reticle. The glass is great but it has a bit of what I think is called spherical aberration and CA. I have the 3-21 exos and a Pmii, the klassik is very similar to the exos, minus the exos doesn’t have the spherical aberration. The CA is minor and less than the Kahles k6-24 I had, I think you would only notice any CA in non-hunting situations. Overall I’d say the clarity and brightness punches above its a 1300 price point but it does suffer a little from being an older optical design, hence the spherical aberration. On a side note, the 4-16 is only 100 more and has a very forging eyebox, I bet you will get more use out of the additional mag, than the extra FOV with the three power.
     
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    #3
    A.Redd said:
    Not sure if this helps but I recently picked up the 4-16 model with the same reticle. The glass is great but it has a bit of what I think is called spherical aberration and CA. I have the 3-21 exos and a Pmii, the klassik is very similar to the exos, minus the exos doesn’t have the spherical aberration. The CA is minor and less than the Kahles k6-24 I had, I think you would only notice any CA in non-hunting situations. Overall I’d say the clarity and brightness punches above its a 1300 price point but it does suffer a little from being an older optical design, hence the spherical aberration. On a side note, the 4-16 is only 100 more and has a very forging eyebox, I bet you will get more use out of the additional mag, than the extra FOV with the three power.
    Click to expand...
    I was looking at that one too.

    www.eurooptic.com

    Schmidt Bender 4-16x50mm Klassik LM P3 0.5 cm Riflescope 847-811-862-08-08A02

    FREE SHIPPING on Schmidt Bender 4-16x50mm Klassik LM P3 0.5 cm Riflescope 847-811-862-08-08A02
    www.eurooptic.com www.eurooptic.com

    The biggest downsides to that option are the 5oz more of weight, larger objective [more general bulk], and less field of view.
    The pros are bigger objective [more light] and more mag for spotting/observing.

    Hunting mostly in the SE, I really don't need a lot of mag and FOV can be important in the tight areas.
    Though the difference isn't that great between those two options.

    I guess I posted this thread just to make sure I wasn't missing another comparable option. I'd love a Swaro, but can't stand any of their reticles for holds.
     
    #6
    TheBigCountry said:
    Why not get one of the older Bushy LRTS or LRHS models used here in the PX?
    Click to expand...
    I probably should, but I think I'm just too much of an elitist to buy anything with the Bushnell name on it. I'm a poor elitist, but I've been disatisfied enough with cheaper gear so that I tend to buy high end just to ensure that the product with satisfy my wants.
     
    #7
    I went thru a similar decision process a few months ago and almost went Klassik but wound up getting a Leupold VX6 HD 2-12x42 and I am pleased. Not quite as crisp as my S&B Polar and not quite the low light transmission, but good glass and zoom ratio for an all around close to mid range hunting scope. Hunted with it this evening on a field with a max 200 yard shot and no issues making out details clearly up until legal shooting time ended 30 minutes after sunset.
     
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    #8
    Man, that S&B ticks a lot of boxes.
    It wasn't on my radar at all, but illum, FFP, mil reticle ~20oz is pretty hard to beat.

    I'm still running the swfa 3-9 and am pretty happy with it, but would mind a hair more mag for paper and illum for woods, and a true 3x w/o tunnelling on the bottom.

    I've debated the nxs compact as well but the price and sfp kill the deal.

    $1200 really ain't bad for that package. Exposed locking elevation turret would seal the deal.

    Curious about durability, etc as my field rifles get knocked around pretty hard.
     
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    #9
    CaptArab said:
    Man, that S&B ticks a lot of boxes.
    It wasn't on my radar at all, but illum, FFP, mil reticle ~20oz is pretty hard to beat.

    I'm still running the swfa 3-9 and am pretty happy with it, but would mind a hair more mag for paper and illum for woods, and a true 3x w/o tunnelling on the bottom.

    I've debated the nxs compact as well but the price and sfp kill the deal.

    $1200 really ain't bad for that package. Exposed locking elevation turret would seal the deal.

    Curious about durability, etc as my field rifles get knocked around pretty hard.
    Click to expand...

    That's my main concern too. Durability.
    I know the PMII's are pretty gtg, but I'm curious about the Klassik series.
    Otherwise, it really does check a lot of boxes.
     
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    #10
    The "crossover" scope is such a neglected hole in the market.

    I flop between my 4-16x42 atacrs and swfa 3-9s.

    Something in the middle would be perfect- I would pay crazy money if could have my 4-16 atacr shrunk down to a 30mm tube with decent killing reticle and 3-12 mag range.

    Athlon of all people seems to be the only one making one- their 2-12 is tempting but I still feel like a whore buying Chinese optics and never really trust them to hold zero.

    On further inspection I think the fixed parallax and capped elevation kills the S&B for me.
     
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    #11
    I’ve got 2 of the 3-12x42 Klassiks in the precision hunter model. Love them. Brighter and better sight picture than the compact NXS 2.5-10x42, for my eyes. Durability is very good, I dragged this one all over and it just works. I’m also finding that the P3 reticle is a great hunting reticle for me.

    F3D18836-6C57-4A21-8914-0B4C12A46CA5.jpeg
     
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    #12
    CaptArab said:
    The "crossover" scope is such a neglected hole in the market.

    I flop between my 4-16x42 atacrs and swfa 3-9s.

    Something in the middle would be perfect- I would pay crazy money if could have my 4-16 atacr shrunk down to a 30mm tube with decent killing reticle and 3-12 mag range.

    Athlon of all people seems to be the only one making one- their 2-12 is tempting but I still feel like a whore buying Chinese optics and never really trust them to hold zero.

    On further inspection I think the fixed parallax and capped elevation kills the S&B for me.
    Click to expand...
    This^^^

    I'm hoping that ZCO does this.
    Basically a LW Klassik with adjustable parallax built for a beating with a forgiving eye box and great FOV. I'd pay ATACR & ZCO $ for that if it checks all the boxes.
    I just want to have my cake and eat it too... and I'm willing to pay for it. lol
     
    Last edited:
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    #14
    I absolutely love my German made Klassik 3-12x42

    - FFP
    - Lightweight
    - p3 mildot reticle
    - 3.3 mil of travel on low profile exposed turret with zero set/stop
    - nice illum

    By far my nicest hunting scope. Replaced a LHT HD 3-15 and couldn’t be happier.

    Sits on a 300BLK 12.5” most of the time then goes a anTI 2B 7mm-08 for deer hunting season.
     
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    #15
    XTREM HTR16 said:
    I’ve often said if S&B built a 3-12x42 PMII at about the same weight as the Klassik or the 10x42PMII, I’d buy them for almost every hunting rifle I own (that’s not already wearing a TT315H)….
    Click to expand...
    I think this is fictional land, the Klassik is the light weight pmii. It takes material to make the Pmii as robust as it is, once you start taking away material then it simply doesn’t have the same features and durability.
     
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    #17
    I came really close to getting the TT315H but went with the nxs 2.5-10x42 instead. I like the looks of that Klassik other then no exposed turret. For a hunting rifle I don't want to hold into the air. If I couldn't dial I would want a tree reticle.
     
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    #20
    Criver600 said:
    Mine is 30 years old, looks right at home on my custom pre-64 Mod-70 .308. Can't beat it for early and late lowlight conditions
    Click to expand...
    I know this is a necro response.

    and subjectively, no you cant beat good glass like that.

    Objectively, I did numerous tests on high end optics a number of years ago. Using side-by-side benched rifles and optics and eye charts at 100 yards in post-sunset fading light conditions, I found that the Zeiss Victory V8 was the brightest glass, lasting longer into darkness than the S&B T96 Polar, although I found that the image on the T96 was weird and washed out. Next was the earlier generation Zeiss Diavari T*, then the S&B Klassik 8x fixed power, then some Kahles Helia scopes and the variable Klassik S&B. all of these scopes lasted far beyond posted hunting hours on the days they were tested.
     
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    #25
    krumfola said:
    Got any more pics and maybe the build specs of that rifle? Looks great.
    Click to expand...
    Sure
    GA Precision build
    GA Templar (anTi) short action
    Bartlein cfw 4 contour 7.5 twist 20”
    Manners UC plus
    Hawkins Hunter M5 DBM and mag
    TBAC CB and Ultra 7 6.5
    NF UL rings

    Berger 140 elite hunter at 2,950 does the trick….

    IMG_4252.jpeg
    IMG_4168.jpeg
    IMG_7464.jpeg
     
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    #26
    #27
    beetroot said:
    Still seems like one of the best options for a FFP hunting scope currently on the market.
    Click to expand...
    Depends on your pricepoint but I'm not sure if they make the top 3 as far as FFP hunting scopes under $1,500. There's been a hell of a lot of good word on the Maven RS1.2 2.5-15 lately and that's $1,200. Its reticle certainly seems like it was built for hunting and it's been successfully drop-tested (however much that matters to you). I wish Nightforce would learn to read and realize the "H" in "SHV" stands for hunter. Maybe that would cause them to make a reticle for the SHV that works well for hunting.

    For under $1,500 it seems the usual options are Maven RS1.2 2.5-15, Nightforce SHV 4-14, and Trijicon Tenmile 3-18.
     
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    #28
    NateVA said:
    Depends on your pricepoint but I'm not sure if they make the top 3 as far as FFP hunting scopes under $1,500. There's been a hell of a lot of good word on the Maven RS1.2 2.5-15 lately and that's $1,200. Its reticle certainly seems like it was built for hunting and it's been successfully drop-tested (however much that matters to you). I wish would learn to read and realize the "H" in "SHV" stands for hunter. Maybe that would cause them to make a reticle for the SHV that works well for hunting.

    For under $1,500 it seems the usual options are Maven RS1.2 2.5-15, Nightforce SHV 4-14, and Trijicon Tenmile 3-18.
    Click to expand...
    Should've clarified, for the size, weight, and mag range there aren't any better options.

    The P3 reticle looks to be one of the best visibilty low power reticles, and the illumination isn't over done.

    The LRHS 3-12 would be a good alternative but they are pretty hard to find.
     
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    #30
    I have both the lrtsi 3-12 and the SnB 3-12 klassik illum mil/mil.
    I prefer the SnB. Sits on my ultralight 204R coyote gun. The illum on the SnB is also better at low power.
     
    #34
    NateVA said:
    Depends on your pricepoint but I'm not sure if they make the top 3 as far as FFP hunting scopes under $1,500. There's been a hell of a lot of good word on the Maven RS1.2 2.5-15 lately and that's $1,200. Its reticle certainly seems like it was built for hunting and it's been successfully drop-tested (however much that matters to you). I wish Nightforce would learn to read and realize the "H" in "SHV" stands for hunter. Maybe that would cause them to make a reticle for the SHV that works well for hunting.

    For under $1,500 it seems the usual options are Maven RS1.2 2.5-15, Nightforce SHV 4-14, and Trijicon Tenmile 3-18.
    Click to expand...

    I'd take an Element over all three, as a scope that has actually been tested worldwide and just the word of some bloke randomly dropping it on a shooting mat and claiming that it's objective data.
     
    #36
    caberslash said:
    I'd take an Element over all three, as a scope that has actually been tested worldwide and just the word of some bloke randomly dropping it on a shooting mat and claiming that it's objective data.
    Click to expand...
    I have no experience with Element so not disagreeing but other than Maven (which is new), Nightforce and Trijicon have also been tested worldwide.
     
    #37
    NateVA said:
    I have no experience with Element so not disagreeing but other than Maven (which is new), Nightforce and Trijicon have also been tested worldwide.
    Click to expand...

    The brands yes, but individual models?

    The NX8 (Japanese made at LOW) isn't comparable to the ATACR, and the NXS is 20 year old tech sold at new prices.

    Trijicon also jumped on the OEM bandwagon, their high mag scopes are Japanese made (but so are Element).

    So at the end of the day, we are comparing who specced the highest quality glass/most robust erector system vs. markup to customer.

    Bushnell (RIP LRTS/LRHS), Vortex, and the cheaper Ziess models (V4, V6) are playing the same game.
     
    #38
    caberslash said:
    The brands yes, but individual models?

    The NX8 (Japanese made at LOW) isn't comparable to the ATACR, and the NXS is 20 year old tech sold at new prices.

    Trijicon also jumped on the OEM bandwagon, their high mag scopes are Japanese made (but so are Element).

    So at the end of the day, we are comparing who specced the highest quality glass/most robust erector system vs. markup to customer.

    Bushnell (RIP LRTS/LRHS), Vortex, and the cheaper Ziess models (V4, V6) are playing the same game.
    Click to expand...
    To reiterate, I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't use any of those scopes (sold a couple SHVs awhile ago). As far as retaining zero there's nothing I'm putting up against a Nightforce of any kind. However, I also realize their SHV line comes with sacrifices and wish they felt enough market pressure to freshen things up on really all of their scope lines to be honest.
     
    #39
    caberslash said:
    You didn't miss anything. Unless there is a special service for the Yanks, S&B Europe (home) has been a clusterfuck for QC and repairs.
    Click to expand...

    Must suck to suck and have to live in Europe and deal with them because the USA service center is amazing. Being friends with the main guy and having his cell phone number is also beneficial.
     
    #41
    NateVA said:
    To reiterate, I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't use any of those scopes (sold a couple SHVs awhile ago). As far as retaining zero there's nothing I'm putting up against a Nightforce of any kind. However, I also realize their SHV line comes with sacrifices and wish they felt enough market pressure to freshen things up on really all of their scope lines to be honest.
    Click to expand...

    I'd need you to explain how it 'holds zero better'. 'Brand name makes it good' isn't an argument I'm willing to accept.

    Sightron might as well be thrown into the mix as well, although they seem to fumble the execution when it comes to a 'hunting scope'.

    Plenty on the F-Open lines though.
     
    #43
    caberslash said:
    I'd need you to explain how it 'holds zero better'. 'Brand name makes it good' isn't an argument I'm willing to accept.
    Click to expand...
    Passed droptesting (for whatever that's worth, it's not nothing) and otherwise basically never hear about any zero shift from them. People criticize the droptesting and I'm sure it could be done better. But no one else seems to be even bothering to try outside of them.
     
    #44
    redneckbmxer24 said:
    Must suck to suck and have to live in Europe and deal with them because the USA service center is amazing. Being friends with the main guy and having his cell phone number is also beneficial.
    Click to expand...
    Sounds like Germany is a bureaucratic nightmare, a friend orders an Anschutz 1761 direct from Germany (through the local agent) and it was a very very slow, painful process.

    I've got an AI on order through Shooting Services in the UK, and it's been a breeze with them/the UK.
     
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