Two triggers down in new impact 737R action. Is it me? Are there more reliable triggers?

#51
Trevor300wsm said:
Have you had ANY pierced primers? Simple yes or no.

When Tate inspects your action and finds that everything is within spec, make sure you post that here for everyone to see. As for the email responses you have received, they are not meant to be insulting. They just have to take into account the absolute dumbest individual that may be reading them on the other end.......and I assure you, they are justified. Anyone that knows Tate knows that he takes care of business, far better than most. This may be a situation where its best for Impact to just buy the receiver back from you. If that is an option you'd like to take, it can be arranged.
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Yes, I had exactly one pierced primer in early December, 2023 about 135 rounds before the first failure. I backed the load off by 0.3 gr from there in case I was using it when it got warmer. If that can be a cause of the issue I would readily and openly admit it.

And I will gladly update especially if it is something I did wrong! I just have gotten almost NO response on a $1400 action. I hope I'm coming across accurately here. I don't think Impact actions are bad, that's why I bought them. I'm just pretty disappointed in the response I received when I reported a (very serious) issue.
 
#52
Your triggers are failing, not your action. Why would you expect the company that makes the action to be the one to figure this out? It's well established that turning a trigger down low increases chances of failures significantly. Your bix having an issue from rain wasn't just from a little bit of rain, it was from rain flushing anything and everything that was in its path into a trigger with incredibly tight tolerances and you were getting that at 1.5lbs. Light triggers require maintenance and keeping them as clean as possible, just lube from not running your bolt bone dry can fuck with a lot of them. Add some carbon, mud, and moon dust and they'll start having problems in a hurry.

If you want good field reliability then stick to a trigger with a little looser tolerances and 2-2.5lbs pull weight. If you want a hair trigger then you're rolling to dice no matter what trigger it is and what action it's in and maintenance is the only thing that will keep it running right. I always kept lighter fluid in my bag at matches to flush my trigger as soon as it started feeling funny.
 
#53
It's been a while since I have adjusted either of the two triggers in question so I can't remember for sure but have you checked / increased sear engagement? That is the first thing I would check / do. If you have enough sear engagement you can reliably and safely go fairly light on the weight of pull. I see no reason you can't safely achieve 1 pound.

For what it's worth trigger tech has some of the best customer service in the business.
 
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#54
redneckbmxer24 said:
Your triggers are failing, not your action. Why would you expect the company that makes the action to be the one to figure this out? It's well established that turning a trigger down low increases chances of failures significantly. Your bix having an issue from rain wasn't just from a little bit of rain, it was from rain flushing anything and everything that was in its path into a trigger with incredibly tight tolerances and you were getting that at 1.5lbs. Light triggers require maintenance and keeping them as clean as possible, just lube from not running your bolt bone dry can fuck with a lot of them. Add some carbon, mud, and moon dust and they'll start having problems in a hurry.

If you want good field reliability then stick to a trigger with a little looser tolerances and 2-2.5lbs pull weight. If you want a hair trigger then you're rolling to dice no matter what trigger it is and what action it's in and maintenance is the only thing that will keep it running right. I always kept lighter fluid in my bag at matches to flush my trigger as soon as it started feeling funny.
Click to expand...
That is super possible. I have not thought of 1.5 lbs as being particularly low, especially since the TT is rated for 4 oz. Nonetheless, it could absolutely be the trigger, or also something stupid I did (like apparently piercing primers, which I very seriously try to avoid)

I would like to note that Tate got back to me just now with some really real solutions, and seems willing to help. At the end of the day, I have a gun that shoots by itself. I've trained for some of these field-type competitions for 8+ months, so I really just need the system to be reliable.

TT pointed their fingers at Impact (which could be wrong, TT hypothesized since the Bix and the TT went down that it's possibly an action issue) and much of the internet pointed at the triggers. At the end of the day I just need this system to be reliable and to only shoot when I want it to. I'll take any help I can get.
 
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#55
jbell said:
It's been a while since I have adjusted either of the two triggers in question so I can't remember for sure but have you checked / increased sear engagement? That is the first thing I would check / do. If you have enough sear engagement you can reliably and safely go fairly light on the weight of pull. I see no reason you can't safely achieve 1 pound.

For what it's worth trigger tech has some of the best customer service in the business.
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I did on the Bix but not on the TT. I don't know how to adjust it on the TT and it came set. Issue is replicated on the Bix and the TT and both needed a few hundred rounds before they stopped being reliable. As an Edit I should note that the TT was swapped for the Bix, I shot mammoth, then practiced some more, the issue happened on the Bix, and now it is worlds worse on the TT than before.
 
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#56
You get points for your candor in acknowledging that there was a pierced primer, and that the issues occurred after that. Take a look at this page from Triggertech: Triggertech Damaged Trigger Policy and Information

After a pierced primer I had a similar issue with a TT Diamond. It turned out to be a broken trigger. I sent in the repair request (not warranty) and TT reached out by email to say they would swap it anyway without processing payment.
 

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#57
If it's taking a few hundred rounds for the problem to occur that tells me it's not the action. If there was an issue with the action you would notice trigger failures immediately. I would venture to say it's lack of maintenance. How have you maintained both of these triggers and how often?

You're not going to get 100% reliability or even close to it with a match rifle running tight tolerances and a lightweight trigger, it just isn't going to happen for the same reasons race gun pistols aren't as reliable as a Glock.

From my experience the most headache free trigger with a decent pull weight and good field reliability is getting an old style solid shoe R700 trigger and polishing it up and running a gretan spring kit. You can go down a little below 2lbs with that combo and maintain decent reliability. Still don't expect a guarantee to be able to to go to a two day match with moon dust blowing around and not having problems on day two if you don't douche it out after the first day.
 
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#58
Cynical said:
You get points for your candor in acknowledging that there was a pierced primer, and that the issues occurred after that. Take a look at this page from Triggertech: Triggertech Damaged Trigger Policy and Information

After a pierced primer I had a similar issue with a TT Diamond. It turned out to be a broken trigger. I sent in the repair request (not warranty) and TT reached out by email to say they would swap it anyway without processing payment.
Click to expand...
I am absolutely a rookie in the world of bolt guns and LR. the Impact rifle is the first non-factory bolt gun I have owned. It's very, very likely I made some mistake along the way.

Had a great experience with TT for sure. They are swapping my trigger for me. Also holy balls, those pierced primer brass look like a grenade went off!
 
#59
Talking trigger design......any cassette style trigger by nature creates a "container" for debris or gunk.

With the recent acceptance of trigger hangers in the tactical community, I would love to see a more precision machined/fitting exposed win70 style trigger assembly.

For all you widget makers out there looking for the next "gamechanger".

Ern
 
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#60
redneckbmxer24 said:
You're not going to get 100% reliability or even close to it with a match rifle running tight tolerances and a lightweight trigger, it just isn't going to happen for the same reasons race gun pistols aren't as reliable as a Glock.
Click to expand...

That's not correct. Anschutz 20oz triggers on biathlon rifles are 100% relieable and they are used and abused in comps at temperatures down to -20C.
Even adjusted down to 150g/5oz the Annie twostage is mechanically much safer than any single stage trigger or fake twostage that has searengagement like a singlestage with a hinged springloaded triggerblade.
These Annie triggers go up to 20000 rounds pr year for decades without failing.
 
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#61
TorF said:
That's not correct. Anschutz 20oz triggers on biathlon rifles are 100% relieable and they are used and abused in comps at temperatures down to -20C.
Even adjusted down to 150g/5oz the Annie twostage is mechanically much safer than any single stage trigger or fake twostage that has searengagement like a singlestage with a hinged springloaded triggerblade.
These Annie triggers go up to 20000 rounds pr year for decades without failing.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I have been thinking during this whole thread. I have no clue how many rounds of rimfire I have fired with a 5018 & 5020 trigger. However they are somewhat open for debris to fall out of. Along with the untold thousands of rounds of rimfire I have field with serval TT Diamonds never cleaning them and having zero issues related to a debris / contamination malfunction.
 
#67
Tate personally took care of me - he had an overnight label sent to me and is going to diagnose the issue. I went from being pretty disappointed to incredibly impressed. Will update with whatever he finds the issue to be. Sending him my action and two triggers, and also some fired brass with a loaded round for comparison so he can see if I'm being harsh on my triggers and actions with how I'm loading (Again, I'm new to this and I'm really thankful to have a very trained set of eyes on this)

I wish I could correct my tone on how I spoke of Impact, and maybe I could with an edit or something, but I think it's important for people to see that they are really taking care of me. Again will report back with what he finds.
 
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#68
Posting my $0.02 to follow.
I have x3 LH Impacts, 2 with TTDs and one BNA 2-stage.
All have -0- hangers and shoot better than I do.
I shoot factory ammo or mid-spice loads, LoL.
Tell Tate to get those LH NBKs done dangit! 😆
 
#69
RKM556 said:
Tate personally took care of me - he had an overnight label sent to me and is going to diagnose the issue. I went from being pretty disappointed to incredibly impressed. Will update with whatever he finds the issue to be. Sending him my action and two triggers, and also some fired brass with a loaded round for comparison so he can see if I'm being harsh on my triggers and actions with how I'm loading (Again, I'm new to this and I'm really thankful to have a very trained set of eyes on this)

I wish I could correct my tone on how I spoke of Impact, and maybe I could with an edit or something, but I think it's important for people to see that they are really taking care of me. Again will report back with what he finds.
Click to expand...
Everybody knows this industry can be hollywood at times......but for the most part bad companies with poor customer service tend to get outted quickly and disolve even quicker.

Glad to hear Impact is taking care of you......first class people and first class products.

Ern
 
#70
RKM556 said:
That is super possible. I have not thought of 1.5 lbs as being particularly low, especially since the TT is rated for 4 oz. Nonetheless, it could absolutely be the trigger, or also something stupid I did (like apparently piercing primers, which I very seriously try to avoid)

I would like to note that Tate got back to me just now with some really real solutions, and seems willing to help. At the end of the day, I have a gun that shoots by itself. I've trained for some of these field-type competitions for 8+ months, so I really just need the system to be reliable.

TT pointed their fingers at Impact (which could be wrong, TT hypothesized since the Bix and the TT went down that it's possibly an action issue) and much of the internet pointed at the triggers. At the end of the day I just need this system to be reliable and to only shoot when I want it to. I'll take any help I can get.
Click to expand...
1.5 lbs on a Diamond is absolutely not near the low end of its range at all.

And how many are run in PRS and other comps at much lower pull weights.

I believe that sometimes members express opinions that go beyond the facts.

I have two Diamonds, one in a Havak and one in a Deviant. Both set to 1 lbs 5 oz and neither has ever had an uncommanded firing.
 
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#73
M4orturnate said:
I've seen pierced primers ruin 2 tt triggers on impact actions. One was a instant lock up.
Both companies are top notch and I'd be real surprised if they didn't take care of you
Click to expand...
I typed a pretty lengthy reply to this, but then opted to delete it. All I’m going to say is this isn’t Impact’s issue, but that’s sure as hell who’s now having to deal with it.
 
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#74
Trevor300wsm said:
I typed a pretty lengthy reply to this, but then opted to delete it. All I’m going to say is this isn’t Impact’s issue, but that’s sure as hell who’s now having to deal with it.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on this, actually. Even though I may be the actual problem you are referencing here. I'm learning as quickly as I can and I try to avoid making it at the cost of others.

To be clear though, I never had a pierced primer with my Bix trigger that I am aware of and it also is unable to have the sear set safely now without the striker following at some point.
 
#75
redneckbmxer24 said:
You're not going to get 100% reliability or even close to it with a match rifle running tight tolerances and a lightweight trigger, it just isn't going to happen for the same reasons race gun pistols aren't as reliable as a Glock.
Click to expand...
I have a TriggerTech Diamond 2 stage trigger in my Ultimatum Deadline Gen2 action that is set at 14.7oz total pull weight.
This trigger has seen 874 rounds through it plus at least 1,000 rounds of dry firing.

I have seen 1 Trigger Tech go down during a competition but I don’t know the circumstances around it.
 
#76
Has anyone who has pierced a primer which resulted in an inoperative trigger actually diagnosed what exactly did the gases and debris from the pierced primer do to the trigger? Short of bending a link or displacing a spring I am having a hard time seeing how a pierced primer can permanently effect any trigger. I guess I see debris getting into the trigger causing some issues but that is easily remedied. I have only pierced a few primers over the years and had a few case head separations but they were all in AIAWs with no I’ll effects.
 
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#77
Thump_rrr said:
I have a TriggerTech Diamond 2 stage trigger in my Ultimatum Deadline Gen2 action that is set at 14.7oz total pull weight.
This trigger has seen 874 rounds through it plus at least 1,000 rounds of dry firing.

I have seen 1 Trigger Tech go down during a competition but I don’t know the circumstances around it.
Click to expand...

14.7 oz total on a two stage is pretty light depending on how the sear and cocking piece interact.

874 rounds and 1000 isn't a lot of use.

This has been a known issue with TTs for several years now and they still havent addressed it. I've seen 4 TTs go down last year. I've had 2 go down over the 3 years. On both of my occasions they swapped them out. However, once I get this last once sold and swapped out with a B&A, I'll never have another Trigger Wreck on one of my guns.
 
#78
Thump_rrr said:
I have a TriggerTech Diamond 2 stage trigger in my Ultimatum Deadline Gen2 action that is set at 14.7oz total pull weight.
This trigger has seen 874 rounds through it plus at least 1,000 rounds of dry firing.

I have seen 1 Trigger Tech go down during a competition but I don’t know the circumstances around it.
Click to expand...

LOL get back to us when there’s another 0 at the end of those numbers. It’s well established that TT’s aren’t the ultimate in reliability, a single pierced primer can cause catastrophic failure in them.
 
#83
I'll provide an update for my friend who's experiencing the same issue as I mentioned above. Impact has had his action for a little over a month now. Tate apologized for the excessive wait when they spoke this morning, and said he would be frustrated too if in his place.

Tate said that after checking the dimensions nothing seems off, but that the problem appears to be following the bolt when it is switched to other 737 actions with different triggers. They will be sending him a new bolt and firing pin unit and his original action via overnight shipping tomorrow afternoon. Supposedly the new bolt, FP unit and original action combo were cycled 1500 times without accidental FP release.
 
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#84
Vivacious Stallion said:
I'll provide an update for my friend who's experiencing the same issue as I mentioned above. Impact has had his action for a little over a month now. Tate apologized for the excessive wait when they spoke this morning, and said he would be frustrated too if in his place.

Tate said that after checking the dimensions nothing seems off, but that the problem appears to be following the bolt when it is switched to other 737 actions with different triggers. They will be sending him a new bolt and firing pin unit and his original action via overnight shipping tomorrow afternoon. Supposedly the new bolt, FP unit and original action combo were cycled 1500 times without accidental FP release.
Click to expand...

Good to hear. It's definitely not always the trigger/s when these things happen.
 
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