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6mm max
- Thread starter nrspence
- Start date
I think we all know who SOLGW is. But why that choice of FONT. Why would someone choose the same font used by Nazi Germany and white supremacists? Coincidence and someome thinks it looks cool? Or intentional?
I’m certainly no SOGLW fan boi. Not that I don’t like them, just don’t own anything from them yet. Maybe I’m uneducated and naive, but never, not once have I ever looked at their font and thought…man, that screams Nazi font or white supremacy. Do those groups have the copyright on font?
With SOLGW I think America, patriotism, liberty.
Nazis used Fraktul or some such thing, which was a variation of the Teutonic font. Long before the nazis were a thing.
German tradition or something. Maybe solgw has German roots?
Either way this font is still different. More like modern tattoo culture if anything.
German tradition or something. Maybe solgw has German roots?
Either way this font is still different. More like modern tattoo culture if anything.
Why would you assume someones political beleifs from the font they use?
If someone tells you they are a vegetarian, do you assume they want to get rid of the jews?
Never made an assumption. Hence why I asked and allowed for both sides.
Why are you defensive?
I don't know what you're getting at, but there are some military units that are struggling with some of the symbology they've been using over the last 20 years.I guess the Navy is also Nazis, yeah?
Are they struggling? Or are some miserable cunts with nothing better to do creating problems where there aren't any?
Boy this thread got retarded fast.
If you want to have a political discussion take it to the bear pit. thats not the purpose of this thread
reductio ad Hitlerum
There's a bunch of legacy team symbols that use iron crosses, desert palms, and what not. 99.9999% of the time, someone just thought it looked cool and was slightly ignorant about it or just blase. But we are dealing with the fall out of it a little bit, so maybe that's why that stuff sticks out to me right now.
"Everyone I don't like is a Nazi".
I haven't played with the numbers for a minute, but I'm getting a strong suspicion that the 80-90ish gr might be the sweet spot before the point of diminishing returns for the "high" BC 6mm Max pills for doing work to surpass 77gr SPR work with similar or shorter length barrels.
Yeah I've had that thought about the 90s as well.
I've also had the thought how big is the difference between 90 vs 103 and 103 vs 108
For an all around bullet I could probably live with an 85gr around 2730 out of a 14.5"
I haven't been following along too closely, but what do we think is the sweet spot in bullet weight where a 6MAX has enough of an advantage (in BC and MV) to matter over a 77gr TMK in say, a 14.5"-18" AR? Will this stomp a 77gr 5.56 in 10.3-12.5" barrels?
Dead animals and match wins are cool, but is the juice really worth the squeeze for this round in standard-ish AR configurations?
Seems like 6.5G, 6ARC, and 22ARC do, but they need a different bolt and mags...
100%...I just don't know.
The appeal of that performance bump without having to step into a large frame gasser...and WITHOUT a ton of hassle is extremely seductive, and will continue to be.
At the end of the day, my brain knows sticking with .223/5.56 is the smarter, more logical play....
Since you really just need a barrel and a couple of DuraMags, and SOLGW will replace your barrel for free if and when you shoot it out -- seems like a decently low-cost way to try out something new in an AR15. Ammo is $1.50/rd right now, but even if you have a minimal handloading setup you should be able to make ammo pretty easily on your own. BC Precision and SOLGW are making ammo and a third (unnamed) ammo supplier is teeing up to make the round as well. The short term goals is $1/rd.
Shoot 5.56 for training and range days, pop on a 6MAX upper for whatever else. <---- Best thing about an AR15.
And don’t forget the best thing…a non weakened bolt face!
Perhaps the owner finds 6MAX to be *clears throat*, “The Final Solution” to optimizing the AR15 platform?
The math over the 77 grain is compelling out of a 12.5" barrel and I've strongly considered converting my P415 to 6Max. I was kind of set on the idea of the 103gr, heavies out of the 12.5" barrel which would clearly outperform 77 grain 5.56 pills. But then 300 blackout supers, say 110 grain, out of a 9" barrel, comes awfully close and my 8" isn't far behind while being practically half the weight and a good big shorter in length. Doesn't seem as appealing then. Energy on target is within 100 ft. lbs. I guess I could build a lightweight 12.5" rifle but that would sort of defeat the purpose as the P415 is a battle tank. Decisions and tradeoffs.
I took all the data from BC Precision Ballistics site and plugged it into an internal ballistics model that will show mv change with barrel length, charge weight, and bullet weight changes. (It has been within 14fps of real-world for me over the years with Grendel, Creedmoor, .223 Rem/5.56, .308, etc.)
I took the 75gr V-MAX load data (24” barrel), and ran 12.5” and 10.5” for 6mm MAX:
6mm MAX
24" fastest load (CFE223): 3170fps (mv ranges from 2985-3170fps depending on powder used)
14.5”: 2912fps
12.5”: 2836fps (this would be 20” 5.56 velocity with 77gr)
10.5”: 2732fps
75gr V-MAX has a .330 G1 BC
14.5"
300yds 2123fps 751ft-lbs 1.0 drop / 0.9 drift
500yds 1677fps 468ft-lbs 3.0 / 1.6
12.5"
300yds 2060fps 707ft-lbs 1.1 mils / 0.9
500yds 1623fps 439ft-lbs 3.2 mils 1.7 drift
10.5"
300yds 1973fps 648ft-lbs 1.2 / 1.0
500yds 1551fps 401ft-lbs 3.5 / 1.8
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.56 77gr TMK
18: 2768fps
14.5”: 2650fps
18” 5.56
300yds 2149fps 789ft-lbs 1.1 / 0.7
500yds 1785fps 545ft-lbs 3.0 / 1.3
14.5” 5.56 77gr TMK
300yds 2047fps 716ft-lbs 1.2 / 0.8
500yds 1695fps 491ft-lbs 3.3 / 1.4
Main conclusions:
Shooting similar bullet weights from 6mm MAX vs 5.56, namely in the 75-77gr weight classes, shows very minimal downrange advantage due to the higher BCs of the 75-77gr class in .224” vs the lower BCs of the 6mm 75gr. The 5.56 actually has better wind drift from the same barrel lengths. The advantage to 6 MAX would be armor-defeat in the closer range due to higher mv.
Where the 6 MAX has its main advantages vs 5.56 is being able to shoot the heavier 87-103gr projectiles, and being able to shoot the really light bullets at close range super-fast from short barrels. A 10.5” 6 MAX will spit a 55gr out at 3087fps naked, and faster with suppressor boost. You will want a suppressor on the end for that of course.
12.5” 6 MAX will spit the 87gr V-MAX at ~2524fps, which is what it takes to get near the .224” 77gr TMK BC.
Can you run those same numbers for a 103gr eldx?
I feel like that weight is the sweet spot for 6mm class.
Running strelok pro, I am finding at 500M the 6max 103gr eldx has 50% more energy and 30% less wind drift vs 77tmk, both from a 16" bbl at my high elevation.
That is going off the 103gr velocity claimed above and using Streloks bc of .258, while the chart above has it listed as .2508.
Drop is basically identical for those 2 cartridges out to over 500M, which is nice for memorizing the drops, at least for me. Probably the same speed drop factor.
I feel like that weight is the sweet spot for 6mm class.
Running strelok pro, I am finding at 500M the 6max 103gr eldx has 50% more energy and 30% less wind drift vs 77tmk, both from a 16" bbl at my high elevation.
That is going off the 103gr velocity claimed above and using Streloks bc of .258, while the chart above has it listed as .2508.
Drop is basically identical for those 2 cartridges out to over 500M, which is nice for memorizing the drops, at least for me. Probably the same speed drop factor.
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This is data for 16 in from sun and shadow
6mm MAX - A Comparison of Top Performing Small Frame Cartridges and Ballistic Data
6mm MAX is an exciting new intermediate cartridge that combines AR15 small frame weight and portability with AR10 large frame performance. Developed by BC Precision Ballistics and championed by Sons of Liberty Gun Works, the 6mm MAX can move projectiles from 55gr to 105gr at incredible...
www.sunnshadow.com
I’m getting different numbers using Hornady’s doppler program, which has the 103gr ELD-X in the drop-down menu. I went to 5mph wind to match the tables above.
103gr ELD-X 2550fps Doppler Data
300 1.2 / .3
500 3.2/ .5
600 4.5/ .6
700 5.9/ .7
800 7.5/ .9
900 9.2/ 1
1000 11.2/ 1.2
103gr ELD-X 2550fps Doppler Data
300 1.2 / .3
500 3.2/ .5
600 4.5/ .6
700 5.9/ .7
800 7.5/ .9
900 9.2/ 1
1000 11.2/ 1.2
Hit the range yesterday with a new build to get a little data. I had 70 grn SMK, 80 grn eld-vt, and 90 grn eld-x. The 80 grn eld-vt sits too deep into the case to be loaded to mag length, leaving a gap between the bullet and neck so it's a no-go.
The 90 eld-x with CFE shot the best. 10 shot groups right at an inch, single digit SD's with an avg velocity of 2830 loaded to published max.
The 70 SMK's grouped best at 1.5 grains under max with CFE giving 3100 fps with sd's around 11. Max load gave 3200 fps with an SD of 20.
18" barrel is still speeding up. Once I get a couple hundred rounds on it I'll try some 103's and 105's.
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Brownells has the SOLGW 6Max barrels listed but not yet in stock. Hopefully SOLGW's factory loaded 6Max ammo is not too far out, either.
This cartridge fills a great spot for caliber swaps on unconventional setups like the AR18-style SIG Spear that can be rebarreled, but BCGs aren't available for 6mm ARC or Grendel. 35 grains WC, six more than 5.56 and on par with ARC and Grendel. The only cost I see on paper is OAL constraints.
This is the conclusion I’ve come to as well. It may not beat other cartridges in raw performance, but ease of caliber conversion could be a driving factor in acceptance, much like 6.5CM and 300blk.
The one situation that is niche but could be quite interesting is that the case head used and case profile would allow this to be used in belt fed options with M27 links
It would be interesting to see how the short barrel performance (14.5, 13.9, 12.5, 11.5) stacks up to 6Arc and 6.5Grendel
Just seems
Like everyone is throwing something in a Ar15 magazine length regardless of how”Useful “ the cartridge actually is
I’ve never understood why the 6.5 Grendel hasn’t replaced every 5.56mm out there
But i guess it’s because the Creedmoor has over shadowed everything especially the little Grendel and it’s actually preformance on Game like Whitetail deer and wild pigs
I guess it will always stay a reloaders cartridge but I’m ok with that
Two reasons:
1) 5.56 is the military standard, which has influences for multiple reasons
2) 6.5 Grendel was never as far as I know submitted for full SAAMI workup. 6 Arc was and with it seeing some DOD use we might very well see more adoption across the board because it is the "cool guy" caliber that has wider applications than the specialist .300Blk
22 Arc, 6 Arc, 6 Max, 6.5 Grendel, .450 Bushmaster are all interesting but for widely different reasons (to me at least)
I don't think 5.56 will ever fade away, but it will be relegated to being what it always was: an excellent cartridge for a general purpose defensive carbine. I can see the Army moving to a folding stock 11.5" type platform (Spear-LT?) with ~400m effective range for non-frontline troops, more compact and easily carried than the M4 for people whose duty roles don't involve putting lead into badguys on the regular.
bolt face is too thin on grendel and the 6 arc. 6max sounds very interesting. also no need for a curved magazine I assume.
