The jury instructions in the Trump case are simply insane

Jgault · May 29, 2024

I’ve seen more than a few jury instructions, I’ve never seen or heard anything like this. The judge instructed the jurors they don’t have to agree on what crime was committed, but if they all believe a crime was committed real or imagined then that would be guilty. So all 12 jurors can say he’s guilty of 12 different crimes, but that will be treated as a unanimous verdict. This trial has already set the record for the number of reversible errors, so I think the judge basically said what the hell, it’s going to get reversed anyway why not make sure the headline is convicted. I would also love to know how through a system of random case assignment how one judge managed to get randomly assigned to 3 cases so far involving Trump directly or a former Trump advisor being charged, this judge will be handling the Steve Bannon case as well.

Ronws · May 29, 2024

Problem is, it has been this way for a long time. Clown world and cracked "justice" does not just spring up overnight.

So, the best way to stop a judge from giving erroneous instructions is to stop him from giving erroneous instructions. Telling him he is wrong is not enough. He has to be stopped.

Then, again, we are not as stupid as they think we are. People know what is going on and the judge and prosecutors are simply sowing discontent. They shall later reap the harvest of what they have sown.

Doc68 · May 29, 2024

That judge is gonna need some good bodyguards here soon me thinks......

Doc

Blue Sky Country · May 29, 2024

It will be up to the jurors to do what is right. Judges and advisors can only dish out enough propaganda. "Blah blah preconceived notions, biases"... yeah, bullshit. Preconceived notions and biases are human nature. You can't just "turn it off", so all that yap yap yapping goes in one ear and out the other. I only need to hear the case. Defendant had an "illegal gun"? No such thing as "illegal guns" under the laws of nature protected under this country's Constitution. "Blah blah blah blah"... WHAT? I ain't heard nothing you just said, I was thinking about whether I am having pepperoni or mushroom toppings tonight. NOT GUILTY.

UKDslayer · May 29, 2024

They knew that they couldn't get 12 people to unanimously agree that all three facets applied into their "blended" charge of this newly created criminal felony. By making the jurors pick one out of three options as "guilty" - they are nailing down their conviction (even if those same individual elements were in and of themselves only misdemeanors and well past the statue of limitations, which is why other courts refused to pursue any of this before). Anyone can see through this; we are a laughing stock to all those countries we labeled as "Banana Republics" for imprisoning their political opponents.

I'm clueless to law and appeals, but I guess they are assuming if they can at least initially get in Trump in jail and stall on the appeal process they will get their victory (or at least an excuse for their desired election results). I do love how this is working against them with regards to the black voters that think the justice system is crooked - even if those votes don't matter.

And if you think this is bad, be aware that George Washington Univ. Law profs already have over 100 cases lined up against Trump if his votes overwhelm their "system" and it appears that he won in Nov. 2024 to keep him from ever reclaiming POTUS.

Ronws · May 29, 2024

UKDslayer said:
They knew that they couldn't get 12 people to unanimously agree that all three facets applied into their "blended" charge of this newly created criminal felony. By making the jurors pick one out of three options as "guilty" - they are nailing down their conviction. Even if those same individual elements were in and of themselves only misdemeanors and well past the statue of limitations, which is why other courts refused to pursue any of this. Anyone can see through this; we are a laughing stock to all those countries we labeled as "Banaa Republics" for imprisoning their political opponents.

I'm clueless to law and appeals, but I guess they are assuming if they can at least initially get in Trump in jail and stall on the appeal process they will get their victory (or at least an excuse for their desired election results). I do love how this is working against them with regards to the black voters that think the justice system is crooked - even if those votes don't matter.

Yes, the recent awkward interviews where someone expects a black man to crap all over Trump and then he turns around and shows his Trump necklace.

Delicious.

Slash0311 · May 29, 2024

Its not about this trial. So many things will probably get tossed on appeal.

Its all about getting the immediate conviction so the left can use the phrase "convicted felon" to try and sway voters before November.

Very very sad day for what's left of our country.

Ronws · May 29, 2024

Slash0311 said:
Its not about this trial. So many things will probably get tossed on appeal.

Its all about getting the immediate conviction so the left can use the phrase "convicted felon" to try and sway voters before November.

Very very sad day for what's left of our country.

Yeah. they really don't care. If they could get him a felony for jaywalking, they would.

Meanwhile, Hillary is still not in jail.

And Obama signing carbon reduction treaties is a direct violation of the constitutional requirement for him to protect the sovereignty of our member states and is treason. And he is still not swinging at the end of rope from a tree.

Then, again, he is kenyan and should not have been president.

mvphilly · May 29, 2024

Wisconsin gallup poll right now Trump leads Poopy Boy by 6% if Trump is found guilty that changes to Biden leads by 4%.Not that I trust polls but you see where they are going with this crap.They cant possibly win on their true everyday record these past 3 1/2 years so this is what they must resort to.Either that or have Fauci concoct some other killer virus.

Jgault · May 29, 2024

UKDslayer said:
They knew that they couldn't get 12 people to unanimously agree that all three facets applied into their "blended" charge of this newly created criminal felony. By making the jurors pick one out of three options as "guilty" - they are nailing down their conviction. Even if those same individual elements were in and of themselves only misdemeanors and well past the statue of limitations, which is why other courts refused to pursue any of this. Anyone can see through this; we are a laughing stock to all those countries we labeled as "Banaa Republics" for imprisoning their political opponents.

I'm clueless to law and appeals, but I guess they are assuming if they can at least initially get in Trump in jail and stall on the appeal process they will get their victory (or at least an excuse for their desired election results). I do love how this is working against them with regards to the black voters that think the justice system is crooked - even if those votes don't matter.

He might see the inside of a jail cell for a few hours if the judge denies ball after a conviction pending appeal, but that won’t last long. There are pages of reversible errors but the three that are the most obvious:
1) Not permitting the former head of the election commission to testify on what the actual election law was because according to the judge it would confuse the jury, but allowing Cohen to testify to what the election law was even though he has no expertise in the matter.
2) Allowing Daniel’s to testify at length about sex in a trial concerning supposed financial fraud, the definition of irrelevant and prejudicial.
3) Jury instructions that go beyond anything that resembles the actual law.

There are probably 10 more but those are just the ones I heard by listening to statements made by the court. It will be overturned but not until 2027 or so.

wvfarrier · May 29, 2024

Its the most insane abortion of justice I have ever even heard of. The Judge needs diabarred

Fx51LP308 · May 29, 2024

I saw a news crawl item on Newsmax that said Rep. Elise Stefanik is filing misconduct charges against Judge Merchan. I'm not sure I'd even talk about that while the jury is still out. If they come back with an acquittal, then go for it. But if they come back with a hung jury or conviction, they still need the judge to rule on things. I wouldn't want him any more pi$$ed off than he already is.

Even if Pres. Trump prevails on all of his issues going on and wins in Nov. 2024, the electoral college results still have to be certified. I'm not sure the Democratic Senate will do that. Not unless we take back the Senate and keep the house, and they wait until the new Congress is sworn in. We'll have to see what happens. And, even if it is certified, and he's sworn in again, Pres. Trump will have to have eyes in the back of his head. They will be coming after him. I would not put it past someone to try and "take him out..." after he's sworn in. He'd best pick the right VP as "insurance," so that the alternative is a lot less appealing. And, keep in mind that this "alternative" can serve 2 full terms. So, hopefully, it's not in the opponent's best interests to take him (Trump) out.

Pres Trump, as much as I want him to be in the Oval on 01/20/2025, has a lot of ground to overcome... more so for his own survival. Be sure his Secret Service detail is vetted and loyal from Day 1. And his chef/dining room staff. There is just so much that has to happen to make this all work right. I just hope we can make it all work.

TheHorta · May 29, 2024

It’s not insane at all. It is very direct and calculated. It’s a way for a judge to instruct a jury to return any verdict they want, as long as it’s “Guilty!”

Sadly, virtually all Americans are under the illusion that they are required to obey a judge’s instructions. They don’t know that the jury is the one who wields ALL power a courtroom, and they can disregard any and every instruction they are given.

Jury Nullification should be taught in every Junior High School in America.

375fan · May 29, 2024

This trial is all political bs.

st1650 · May 29, 2024

I hope he gets convicted.
Boomers needs to wake up and smell the coffee and understand that’s all of the institutions have been utterly co-opted and corrupted and it happened under their watch.

Muh back the blue
Muh white hats
Muh trust the plan
Muh patriots are in control
Muh military will do something about it
Muh voooooting. We need to voooooote harder.
Muh democracy
Muh immigration is good as long as they come here legally

Wake up retards

Fx51LP308 · May 29, 2024

TheHorta said:
It’s not insane at all. It is very direct and calculated. It’s a way for a judge to instruct a jury to return any verdict they want, as long as it’s “Guilty!”

Sadly, virtually all Americans are under the illusion that they are required to obey a judge’s instructions. They don’t know that the jury is the one who wields ALL power a courtroom, and they can disregard any and every instruction they are given.

Jury Nullification should be taught in every Junior High School in America.

In which case, there would never be another jury trial again.... ever! There's a reason why juries don't know about it (and those who do are usually struck in voire dire). It's why deputy Sheriffs are quick to arrest protestors who stand in front of a courthouse when voire dire is going on with placards promoting jury nullification. The system won't let it happen. They'll just go to bench trials, or they might go to a system of "professional juries" (i.e. where the same jurors try all the cases on an "impartial" basis) rather than depending on unknowns, etc.

But the greater issue is the whole justice system itself. How this judge got picked. How the DA decided to prosecute right at the point just before an election. This whole thing reeks of corruption. They are trying to railroad Pres. Trump. Here's hoping he prevails.

7.62willdo · May 29, 2024

It’s simply a matter of perspective……..
from your perspective yes they are insane….
from Nancy Pelosi perspective they are just fine…..

lash · May 29, 2024

Sleepy Joe has already called him a convicted felon. Almost as if he already knows the outcome. This is a huge voter manipulation strategy that they decided upon years ago and have been orchestrating according to plan. Nothing is coincidental or insane about it.

ken226 · May 29, 2024

Footage from the trial:

Jgault · May 29, 2024

The jury has requested Cohen’s testimony again, and another request to hear the jury instructions again. It’s early so I would think there are a few holdouts they are trying to beat into line. I hope it’s a hill they will die on.

Fx51LP308 · May 29, 2024

The judge just dismissed the jury for the evening. Seriously? At 4:30p? I mean, when I last did jury duty, they did stop at 4:30p but only because the judiciary could not afford to pay "overtime" to the deputy sheriffs to look after us. I seriously doubt that's the case in NYC.

One point of concern is what a "guilty" verdict (as flawed as it may be), will do for the democrats. They can use the time between the conviction and the appeal to say "CONVICTED FELON" a bunch of times in the media and get people turned away from Trump. I hear Biden is already scheduling a TV appearance for this Friday. We'll see. And the problem with "appeals" is how long it will take for the trials to be reversed. I"m pretty much betting it will be resolved just after the "election." In the mean time, the media still gets to yell "CONVICTED FELON" all over the place!

Furthermore, and even sneakier, Judge Merchan has not yet dismissed the "alternate jurors." There's some talk that if it gets to a hung jury, Merchan will not declare a mistrial but will replace some jurors with alternates and have them try again.

Gee, I wonder which jurors he'll replace???

Jgault · May 29, 2024

Fx51LP308 said:
The judge just dismissed the jury for the evening. Seriously? At 4:30p? I mean, when I last did jury duty, they did stop at 4:30p but only because the judiciary could not afford to pay "overtime" to the deputy sheriffs to look after us. I seriously doubt that's the case in NYC.

One point of concern is what a "guilty" verdict (as flawed as it may be), will do for the democrats. They can use the time between the conviction and the appeal to say "CONVICTED FELON" a bunch of times in the media and get people turned away from Trump. I hear Biden is already scheduling a TV appearance for this Friday. We'll see. And the problem with "appeals" is how long it will take for the trials to be reversed. I"m pretty much betting it will be resolved just after the "election." In the mean time, the media still gets to yell "CONVICTED FELON" all over the place!

Furthermore, and even sneakier, Judge Merchan has not yet dismissed the "alternate jurors." There's some talk that if it gets to a hung jury, Merchan will not declare a mistrial but will replace some jurors with alternates and have them try again.

Gee, I wonder which jurors he'll replace???

I’m more concerned with justice and what a guilty verdict means for all of us, any rigged trial just makes it more likely we could be in front of one because of the rule of precedent. As far as the election it is a win win win for Trump. Not guilty or hung jury, look what they tried to do, vote for me. Guilty, maybe even better, it would make Trump’s base rabid, and the general rule is who ever gets the highest percentage of their base to the polls win. Not only that but the trial is so tainted the drop in independents might be minimal, boosting another 10% of your base to the polls is a priceless gift.

Fx51LP308 · May 29, 2024

Jgault said:
I’m more concerned with justice and what a guilty verdict means for all of us, any rigged trial just makes it more likely we could be in front of one because of the rule of precedent. As far as the election it is a win win win for Trump. Not guilty or hung jury, look what they tried to do, vote for me. Guilty, maybe even better, it would make Trump’s base rabid, and the general rule is who ever gets the highest percentage of their base to the polls win. Not only that but the trial is so tainted the drop in independents might be minimal, boosting another 10% of your base to the polls is a priceless gift.

Perhaps, but it's going to be difficult for Trump to preside as "President" while incarcerated in Attica or Sing Sing, or whatever. I'm sure the judge will try to send him to prison, if there's a conviction.

Ronws · May 29, 2024

Fx51LP308 said:
Pres Trump, as much as I want him to be in the Oval on 01/20/2025, has a lot of ground to overcome... more so for his own survival. Be sure his Secret Service detail is vetted and loyal from Day 1. And his chef/dining room staff. There is just so much that has to happen to make this all work right. I just hope we can make it all work.

I've always just assumed he has his own team of mercs to even keep eye on the secret service.

wvfarrier · May 29, 2024

The most insane instruction was:
Even of you do not agree on which charges he is guilty of, if you agree on one he is guilty of all. WTF

UKDslayer · May 29, 2024

Jgault said:
Not only that but the trial is so tainted the drop in independents might be minimal, boosting another 10% of your base to the polls is a priceless gift.

Between RFK Jr's pick for VP and the Libertarian Woke disaster candidate, I don't see independents as having any other choice.

UKDslayer · May 29, 2024

Ronws said:
I've always just assumed he has his own team of mercs to even keep eye on the secret service.

I'm wondering if someone in Secret Service didn't intentionally make sure he wasn't around for the MAL raid. (I bet his current SS are pretty loyal, but everyoen has their price.)

357Max · May 29, 2024

If this trial had occurred in 1875 the jurors would have returned a hung judge.

nso123 · May 29, 2024

This should have been a directed verdict by the judge. It’s a joke. They are willing to convict at all costs. You can’t debate from a jail cell.

LuckyDuck · May 29, 2024

oneshot86 · May 29, 2024

TheHorta said:
It’s not insane at all. It is very direct and calculated. It’s a way for a judge to instruct a jury to return any verdict they want, as long as it’s “Guilty!”

Sadly, virtually all Americans are under the illusion that they are required to obey a judge’s instructions. They don’t know that the jury is the one who wields ALL power a courtroom, and they can disregard any and every instruction they are given.

Jury Nullification should be taught in every Junior High School in America.

It was bro. We had that in civics in the early 80s

Franko · May 29, 2024

The jury instructions are unbelievable and obscene. Yet our institutions are now so corrupt that this will pass without comment. God help all of us.

IronSkillet · May 30, 2024

If they can steal an election, you don’t think they can plant 12, people on a jury. Hope for the best prepare for the worst.

Ronws · May 30, 2024

Well, to be fair, they are getting away with this because no one is stopping them. In order to stop the injustice, one has to actually stop the injustice. And no one is stopping the injustice.

Fx51LP308 · May 30, 2024

The Jury has reached a verdict!, To be read at 5:15p ET.

I'll keep you posted!

st1650 · May 30, 2024

Guilty on all counts.
Lol. Lmao even.

IronSkillet · May 30, 2024

IronSkillet said:
If they can steal an election, you don’t think they can plant 12, people on a jury. Hope for the best prepare for the worst.

LIKE I SAID EARLIER TODAY!

BCP · May 30, 2024

Doc68 said:
That judge is gonna need some good bodyguards here soon me thinks......

Doc

Yeah right, nothing will happen, he'll lecture at Harvard about his famous career etc.

lonegunman762x51 · May 30, 2024

I'm going to donate $500 to Trump's reelection campaign just because. When the come up with fucked up probation rules to keep him from rallies and debates, I'll donate a thousand more. Fuck them.

LRRPF52 · May 31, 2024

ken226 said:
Footage from the trial:

He got a more fair shake in Idiocracy because the Prosecution was ordered to make their case first.

In Trump’s “trial”, defense didn’t even know what the charges were even on closing arguments, yet they had to go first.

You can’t make this stuff up.

Idiocracy used to be a documentary about the future. Now it’s a vision of how better society might be if we still followed some of our laws.

LRRPF52 · May 31, 2024

wvfarrier said:
The most insane instruction was:
Even of you do not agree on which charges he is guilty of, if you agree on one he is guilty of all. WTF

These should be the legal standards for everyone that supports this moving forward.

No right to habeas corpus

No due process of law

State withholds evidence as a rule.

Let your defense make its case first in closing arguments.

Algorithms select the jury pool for most likely to convict.

lash · May 31, 2024

You forgot

Charging 34 “felony” charges that were largely misdemeanors by law.

Guilty of one thing means guilty of all charges.

Allowing damning “facts” be published to pre-try the person in public opinion and not allow the defendant to respond by using gag orders. In other words, control what the public hear.

mosin46 · May 31, 2024

Doc68 said:
That judge is gonna need some good bodyguards here soon me thinks......

Doc

we all knew the plan,the techniques and the outcome before it even started. i assume trump knew the same.

Having trouble using the site?

The jury instructions in the Trump case are simply insane

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