spotting misses

A solid position behind the gun is one. The best quality glass you can afford is two. When the targets are beat up it can be hard to determine where it's hitting. Look to see what way the plate is swinging. That can tell you what edge your hitting. If it doesn't swing left or right your probably centered.

Or burn a round into the dirt intentionally to see exactly where you are hitting. Not the best tactic and can be frowned apon.

trident512789 said:

(And a special FU to my squad today who couldn't tell me dick--even after the fact)

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It's nice when you got buddies in the squad. But if its a bunch of randos you dont know, its not their responsibility.

trident512789 said:

Thats what I love about being a new shooter: "Fuck you noob"

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I don't know if that's the case. I had that happen once at a 2 day match. But I was squaded with all pros. They were focused on winning.
I wouldn't recommend a new shooter go to a 2 day match with the expectation of shooters carrying you.
A one day local match is normally a slower pace.
But back to your original question. Experience will help, keep shooting and keep paying attention.
This is an individual sport, not a team sport. So keep practicing.

Several years ago I started putting on matches at our local club and one of the hard fast rules I have in place is “ no coaching”. This means no calling corrections or making wind calls for other shooters. It is a “tough-love” approach but it helped shooters learn to spot their own shots and make corrections based on what they read on their reticles. Being dependent on input from other shooters can also open you up to incorrect information resulting in frustration and placing blame.

As suggested; practice learning to read your splash and impacts on the target. Once you can rely on your ability to spot and make corrections, it will help with your confidence and make you a better shooter.

camocorvette said:

I don't know if that's the case. I had that happen once at a 2 day match. But I was squaded with all pros. They were focused on winning.
I wouldn't recommend a new shooter go to a 2 day match with the expectation of shooters carrying you.
A one day local match is normally a slower pace.
But back to your original question. Experience will help, keep shooting and keep paying attention.
This is an individual sport, not a team sport. So keep practicing.

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Yes. 3/4 of the pros are helpful but busy with their own procedures. 1/4 are not particularly pleasant to interact with, unless you are one of their “bros” who do get assistance. The more I operate as if I’m practicing by myself, the better I do. The constant inane chatter in electronic ears takes practice to ignore.

It took me a bit to wrap my mind around needing to look at the flying dirt and trace it back to its point of origin as the point of origin is the impact that I need to adjust off of.

-Stan

trident512789 said:

But it motivated the hell outta me to get better and kick their ass. Is it possible to see splash at 100, or do I need to start farther out with practice. I know the farther out I go, the easier it is to get back on target. Hits are easy to spot. Misses, not so much.

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Very valuable video but start about 20 minutes in for your answer

Couple of things I notice with guys that have issues spotting their own impacts....
Gun not set up correctly...Butt heavy a lotta times, LOP to long, scope to close or to far, ECT...Basically fighting their gun.
Not square behind the gun...this is especially important when shooting off prop's.
More worried about getting all rounds off as apposed to getting impacts.
Scope magnification set to high.

I am by no means a pro but these are a few of the things I see at matches.

OK, Coaching. I thought that coaching was particularly forbidden in Precision Rifle. I am aware that occasionally a new shooter will be give a wind call before he starts the stage and possibly 1st time shooters at a local match are “coached’ to some degree, but expecting coaching (and presumably spotting) to help a shooter while he/she was shooting a stage??

This is legal in IHMSA and other shooting sports, but I thought, PRS was an individual sport. Meaning we all need to learn to spot our shots and learn to read the wind. Basically shoot like we are the one and only, in a life or death situation. A situation where, our ability is the only help we are going to get to put the bullet on the target. .

Tough love? It’s the game, jump in and swim or watch from the sidelines. Takes time, takes practice and taking classes and putting lots and lots of rounds down range. And it takes good equipment. Jump in and swim.

Now, I am not against a good pat on the back or a bit of help to a shooter who is struggling. In my mind, while this is going against everything i wrote above, it’s kinda nice to get. Admittedly I have been give a neat little shove now and then. But, don’t expect it and don’t get mad if you don’t get it.

trident512789 said:

As usual, rules for me, not for thee. My squad was coaching the hell outta each other on the clock, including the MD, but I couldn't even get feedback of "was I missing high" AFTER the fact

That's what got me in a VERY foul mood.

Also as usual PRS safety third no one wears eye-pro. Making the 1st time shooter RO (not me). I don't wanna be a dick but perhaps time to find another match.

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Pretty well messed up. Can see why you were unhappy.

Better than the wnd call I got in my first ever PRS match. I listened to the assist rather than trust my own rifle, (which bullet / cartridge combination was quite wind resistant.) They had me shooting so far to the right, I hit the next target on the KYL rack. These days and times, I prefer to shoot matches with my son. We both shoot 6GT’s and kind know what and where to shoot without having to coach each other. His help, is to go over the distance of each target. then we let my Kestrel and Ballistic apps show us the way. Both shooting 105 hybrids, but we are using different powders so we have to use separate ballistic apps/settings.

Yep, if rules are considered mere suggestions for the cool kids I agree, time to move on.

Dead Eye Dick said:

OK, Coaching. I thought that coaching was particularly forbidden in Precision Rifle. I am aware that occasionally a new shooter will be give a wind call before he starts the stage and possibly 1st time shooters at a local match are “coached’ to some degree, but expecting coaching (and presumably spotting) to help a shooter while he/she was shooting a stage??

This is legal in IHMSA and other shooting sports, but I thought, PRS was an individual sport. Meaning we all need to learn to spot our shots and learn to read the wind. Basically shoot like we are the one and only, in a life or death situation. A situation where, our ability is the only help we are going to get to put the bullet on the target. .

Tough love? It’s the game, jump in and swim or watch from the sidelines. Takes time, takes practice and taking classes and putting lots and lots of rounds down range. And it takes good equipment. Jump in and swim.

Now, I am not against a good pat on the back or a bit of help to a shooter who is struggling. In my mind, while this is going against everything i wrote above, it’s kinda nice to get. Admittedly I have been give a neat little shove now and then. But, don’t expect it and don’t get mad if you don’t get it.

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Coaching on the clock is forbidden at Pro-series (2-day) PRS matches, but it's common for there to be lots of talk about wind right up to the start beep and resuming immediately after a shooter finishes.

Of course some of that is helpful and often times a lot of it isn't, but it's not uncommon for the guys who are winning matches to squad together so that they can talk about wind through out the day - at the highest level PRS is often very much a team sport in this regard (though unofficially). But if the guys around you don't 100% know what they're doing this sort of thing can obviously be an exercise in frustration, as there are so many things other than wind that can cause a less skilled shooter to miss a target.

At regional/club/1-day PRS matches coaching on the clock is somthing that is done for newer, lesser skilled shooters. It's even specifically allowed in the current rulebook (with an attempt to define who is allowed to receive help & who isn't).

Just keep showing up and don’t let any dickheads discourage you.

I’m still relatively new to PRS but have shot enough matches now where I feel comfortable saying that not every match or squad is the same and some are better than others…

Personally, I hate matches where someone in the squad is also the RO and there’s no dedicated spotter… It works out sometimes, I’ve shot a few times with Phil from MPA as the squad-mom and some guys like him can handle it and do a great job, but I’ve experienced it the other way too, with buddies calling phantom impacts for each other and shit, and guys whining on the clock “That was an impact” (when it wasn’t)…

Sadly, I actually try NOT to spot unless I have to anymore, because I nearly had to fold a guy up one time for bitching, told him to put a sock in it or follow me to the parking lot lol

@trident512789

Sorry you had an unfavorable experience at the match, generally all the matches I've been to have been welcoming to new shooters and I try to help out new folks as much as possible when they're on my squad.

A couple general observations... Sharing RO duties is pretty normal for one day matches where we self RO/score as a squad. Everyone takes a turn on glass or the iPad or shagging brass. Sometimes more experienced shooters will take a larger share of the spotting duties, but it's not out of line for them to ask you to help out. No eyepro is the norm across the nation for PRS, I can think of only one range in the country that requires eyepro. Coaching on the clock has always been frowned upon for everyone but new shooters, but additional rule clarifications have come out to make this more strict.

Now to your question about "where was I missing" and not getting info from your squad. Personally, I'll always tell shooters where they were missing when they walk off the line so they can piece together what happened on their stage. But if I don't say it right away I usually forget and it's hard to recall after the fact. The other possibility (and please don't take this as an insult to your shooting) is that your misses weren't consistent. A lot of times I'll see new shooters send out shots all around target because they aren't yet skilled in positional shooting. It doesn't help the new shooter for me to tell them "your misses were one low, one high right, one just off left edge, one over the top of the plate, and three to the right when the wind picked up". When someone shoots very consistently shot to shot then you can give them feedback like "hey man, your dope is consistently 0.3 high at all the targets" or "you needed just a bit more wind there, you were digging a hole just off the right edge".

I'd say dust yourself off, don't let the experience get to you and just keep shooting. It's a tough sport and one where you have to self-diagnose and correct a lot of things as you get better.

PS - that Nick Gadarzi video is gold. His comments are so true... this game is all about seeing bullets downrange.

The best piece of advice I’ve received when I can’t see misses…”be bold on correction.” Hold half to 3/4 more target depending on the surroundings. Are there trees or berms around or is it all clear around the target.

As for your squad… I think everyone has had one like that. I squaded with the all -star squad my first match and had a similar experience. It wasn’t until the end of the match that I started to get some feedback. You also have to be aware of your own etiquette. If you’re not helping spot, chase brass, etc.. they won’t want to help.

trident512789 said:

Granted I'm new here. But making a first time shooter RO (when he clearly didn't want to) is BEYOND STUPID.
Brass/Pad(Scoring)/Spotting 100% Easy to pick up. Everyone contributes.
Not RO.

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I guess I'm kinda confused on that then, we must do it differently at the club matches I go to. Usually one guy holds shot timer and iPad and tells the shooter when to start, then scores while someone else is spotting. Or the spotter will have the shot timer and someone else has the iPad. Two people run the stage, then anyone can pick up brass. There's not a separate "RO" position.

It bears pointing out that more often than not most of the guys you'll roll with at matches are cool and most squads will have a good vibe.

I've shot plenty of matches that went great with everyone passing around and sharing the duties of iPad, spotting, shagging brass, etc. More often than not, most guys have good match etiquette.

But yes, there are dickheads out there... and the best advice I can offer is the same thing I tell myself: just try to stay positive and hang in there, just treat it as a training session and learn something and have fun anyways, laugh about it later. They're not all like that.

That said, while I'm still relatively new to hitting 2-days (and prefer 1-days due to life/work), one of my favorite things about them is when you have a single dedicated RO at each stage so everyone really shoots the same stage, and when there's a dedicated/designated spotter(s) it's even better.

Sheldon N said:

I guess I'm kinda confused on that then, we must do it differently at the club matches I go to. Usually one guy holds shot timer and iPad and tells the shooter when to start, then scores while someone else is spotting. Or the spotter will have the shot timer and someone else has the iPad. Two people run the stage, then anyone can pick up brass. There's not a separate "RO" position.

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@trident512789 Find a new group to shoot with. They sound like assholes.

camocorvette said:

It's nice when you got buddies in the squad. But if its a bunch of randos you dont know, its not their responsibility.

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The other side of that coin is - if you don't know them, you don't know if you can trust the info they're giving you, either. There are so many people who just simply don't know how to spot, or interpret what they're seeing - and those people will have you in all kinds of wrong places by listening to them. That's a case where them NOT helping you is more useful than them helping you...