I have one and it works great - might have to pick up another one!The main NRL22 match that I shoot uses these for targets past 200 -
MagnetoSpeed T1000 Gen 2 Target Hit Indicator
The T1000 is a rugged target hit indicator withmagnetospeed.com
Expensive, but make calling impacts straightforward. We don’t have more than 2 stages in any given match with targets that far out.
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NRL22 vs. PRS Rimfire vs ???
- Thread starter Tortuga
- Start date
we use diamond plate for targets past 175 or so. after a season and a few hundred hits the plate is certainly bent up but it works very well, is cheap/free if you find it as scrap, and makes a nice sound and movement
Another option for the more informal matches - especially with cash payout! - is Lewis class scoring because everyone, regardless of skill level, regardless of the rifle, has an equal chance at winning a "class." The only guaranteed winner is top gun. Everybody else has the same chance of winning an equal share of the purse.
It's been my opinion for decades that Lewis scoring makes cash-purse events much more attractive to everyone. Wish we had some of that in my region... for all that I wish we had more rimfire events of any sort....
We just had 210 shooters at the NRL National Championships. NRL gives you stages to compete against the entire country. They have 2 options. It is also nice to have the stages given to us so we only have to set up. Which is nice to see where you stood each month. The reason for the drop... AMMO. People want to shoot, but this is the WORST time since the sport was introduced to get into the sport. You can't find ammo like we use too. You use to be able to go into stores, pick up 3 50 rounders, sight into that lot, and shoot the day. Would cost you $24. Now, you can't find the ammo, it's double the price if you find it on a shelf and you are lucky if you find it. Is it expensive to be a member? I do think it is a bit high. $30 seems more reasonable, BUT, members are entered in a drawing and I have a buddy who has one a couple prizes from that. And the national prize table was amazing. What I have heard about PRS, is that they are only about the money. I have met the owner at NRL and they are amazing people. They do a lot for the sport. PRS is big down here in the southern Midwest, but I don't see them doing anything for the sport really. Match directors... Yes, but the actual PRS... No.
Never cared to join the NRL or PRS leagues, just wanted to get out and bring a few buddies to shoot. As the local club match fee's kept climbing my participation and others dwindled. My local NRL club recently switched to PRS Rimfire and now monthly matches are $50. I'm sure the club has to pay the range a higher fee to hold the event but $50 a match doesn't attract new shooters. (Local: NRA Bullseye 2700 match is $20, F-class NRA matches are $40).
I’m really surprised for my area SW Ohio there are not any matches within a hour for either nrl or prs 22. They are all two hours plus which is strange do to all the uspsa matches around here. And the fact that membership ranges are typically 100 yards for the area. I just assumed there would be more for 22 ranges in SW Ohio, Northern KY and Eastern Indiana. I’ve checked the websites for both orgs and I’m not seeing much. I guess I’m not into driving 2+ hours for a match.
Compared to my upbringing where bullseye competition ruled the day, I would say nrl22 is far from boring.
having limited props that can be easily replicated at low cost is attractive to clubs with limited budgets and resources. I look at 22 matches as an entity unto themselves, not as a substitute or understudy for center fire.
the idea of having a 100 yard and in range limitation ( with option for further distances) brings the largest amount of venues into the game. growing up in the northeast where I did there were dozens of shooting clubs- almost every community had one, and almost every one had a rifle range limited to 100 yard.
as far as the comment on dumping standing stages- Why? It is another challenge and has been a common way to shoot for centuries. Back When I shot high power rifle bullseye competition it was the stage that made or broke you.
criticism for all these types of events- cost! Range fees / match fees need to be kept far more reasonable than many I have seen at sanctioned matches. If the original intent of nrl22 was to bring in new shooters the idea of $100+ entry fees is a loser. Same with the nrl22 annual dues. they would be much farther ahead if the annual membership was about half what they charge.
perhaps I don’t understand the business model, but most matches I attend have entry fees of $20 or less, and don’t see where the need to charge $100 or more comes from.
having limited props that can be easily replicated at low cost is attractive to clubs with limited budgets and resources. I look at 22 matches as an entity unto themselves, not as a substitute or understudy for center fire.
the idea of having a 100 yard and in range limitation ( with option for further distances) brings the largest amount of venues into the game. growing up in the northeast where I did there were dozens of shooting clubs- almost every community had one, and almost every one had a rifle range limited to 100 yard.
as far as the comment on dumping standing stages- Why? It is another challenge and has been a common way to shoot for centuries. Back When I shot high power rifle bullseye competition it was the stage that made or broke you.
criticism for all these types of events- cost! Range fees / match fees need to be kept far more reasonable than many I have seen at sanctioned matches. If the original intent of nrl22 was to bring in new shooters the idea of $100+ entry fees is a loser. Same with the nrl22 annual dues. they would be much farther ahead if the annual membership was about half what they charge.
perhaps I don’t understand the business model, but most matches I attend have entry fees of $20 or less, and don’t see where the need to charge $100 or more comes from.
Humm, I'm just getting into this "precision" 22 stuff. I've gone deep down the rabbit hole. But I'll be damned if I'll ever pay $100 to shoot. There are no nrl matches close to me, that I know of, but I wanted to attend one, but not at anywhere near that price for a local match. A national or regional match, OK.
Matches that cost that much are not the norm. Usually it is a regional level event or multi-day event to cost $100 and are occurring once or twice a year. They have as many as 15-20 or more stages. And payouts/prizes make the entry fee much saner of a proposition. Its not necessarily a "entry level" event although it could be for some.
I have not seen a NRL22X match ask $100.
The $20 entry fee matches are 5-8 stages. They are monthly in nature. Payouts/prizes are little or non existent. Its a low risk....often low reward....but still highly competitive event that still requires much skill and consistency to win regardless of Division. As NRL22 divisions are not skill based....they are equipment based.
The annual NRL22 organization fee is not a requirement to come and compete. Clubs may ask you to....because the NRL incentives it. But they themselves do not require it. Membership is only for those who wish to compete in the points race and/or wish to attend the National Championship. A non-member can come shoot any monthly match they wish.
We just had a two day event here local to me. It was $100 for both days. Or you could come on day 2 for like $25 and something like the 5 monthly NRL stages (if you wanted to compete for less or get your monthly points) and another 5 match specific stages. You were left out of the prizes/cash payouts if you did not pay for both days. But you do get a lot more shooting for same amount of money as the month's prior monthly match.
I wouldn't compete either if typical match fees were $100. Good thing they are in the $20-35 range.
OK then, that sounds more like it. I shoot local uspsa, steel challenge, and idpa matches that are $10-20. I do shoot one or two matches that are over $100, but they are big regionals.
RO'd at this match, plenty of diversity in stage type and call of fire.
While this is a finale I've shot a couple or better that do a solid job with the monthly call of fire.
R
It all depends on what you are trying to do. Each match cost to register. So Lets do the math on 10 shooters showing up just to make this easy. For me as a match director, I do 8-10 stages depending on the time of year. I have special targets as the ground is too hard to pound stands in. So I am at $1000 just in basic NRL 22 targets. Then a couple hundred in props. So for easy math, lets do $1500 I needed to spend to host matches at my club (ive spent more because I like having fun targets as well). So it cost $20 to register your club, $35 to register a shoot, and it cost me $10 to the club for every shooter that shows up. So if 10 shooters show up, of the fee, I am out $15.50 per shooter just to make the shoot happen. Now I am also giving away a rifle to a youth shooter. This is obviously coming out of my pocket. So if I charge $30 for the shoot, I am losing money to host the shoot each month. Now I don't have to do the give aways or have as nice of targets, but it was important to me to try and grow the sport. I know things are tough, but if MD are not "well off", then they may just be trying to recoop what they had to pay to be able to host the shoots. Just my 2 cents on the topic.
Sounds like your club isn't interested in helping?
Our club paid for all the targets to start. We're a not-for-profit with a board of directors though, so the only costs the club sees are land taxes and maintenance (replacing targets, spraying weeds, grading roads, etc). This is covered with a once yearly raffle fundraiser where we give away 30 guns, tickets are $50 and they only sell 500. This money keeps the majority of the club funded and was paying the land off. The improvements get spread across the pistol, rifle, airgun, cowboy, skeet, and sporting clays ranges.
We charge $20 a match, and $10 goes into the 22 account, and $10 goes to the end of year prize table. Usually have 15-25 shooters at the monthly match.
The 22 account is used to keep buying more targets, hit indicators, etc without board approval. We can ask the board for extra $ if we see the need.
Shot a match a couple weeks ago out to 385, which was a 15 inch diamond with a flasher on it. It was easy to see with the flasher.
I shoot as many matches as my schedule allows- the $20 a pop type.happy to do so.
for me the shooting and challenging myself and I proving my skills IS the reward
I honestly am not good enough to be a prize contender at national level. So not being a member is fine by me.
for me the shooting and challenging myself and I proving my skills IS the reward
I honestly am not good enough to be a prize contender at national level. So not being a member is fine by me.
The targets 300 and in I could see the impacts on the steel. When I was getting my dope dialed in I was able to see impacts on a 12 inch tall 1/2 in ipsc at 300.
I have a question begging for an answer. All the different stages are fine for young shooters, but how about us old guys? What percentage of shooters are you eliminating by having stages and different distance to target. I shoot 50, 100 and 200 yard benchrest. Paper targets and one piece rest. 50 & 100 yard match we shoot UIT A 51 at 50, NRA A 23/3 at 100 and SR C 42 printed white at 200. My rest weighs 45 LBS and rifles 17 plus. I'm 83 and prefer not moving much. I also shoot ARA and at most matches the number of shooters over 70 outnumbers the shooters under 50 by a wide margin. A club just started that is 60 miles away. Last 10 years I had to drive 180 miles to shoot matches. Love to shoot, driving not so much. Are there any easy solutions to this problem?
NRL22 has both an "OG"; Old Guys and an Adaptive class. The monthly CoF always lists suggested alternatives for a stage (different starting/shooting positions). Every club I have shot at has gone out of their way to accommodate for a shooter's physical limitations.
The newer offshoot is "Tactical Benchrest" but is not that wide spread yet. A good thread from a member here who started their own match:
Old People Precision Rimfire
Both NRL22 and PRS22 have rules to allow Old Guys to shoot from alternative positions because of physical limitations. What allowances have you seen. I'm not as flexible as I used to be. If I have to go prone, you might as well throw a pillow down there with me, because I'm going to be there...
www.snipershide.com
I understand exactly where you're coming from. I'm 71. Still pretty mobile but there are props in PRS and even NRL22 statges from which I simply cannot build a stable position - or occasionally any position at all. I am now recovering from back surgery which will hopefully give me a couple more competition years.
Yes, NRL22 has adaptive accomodations. But my guess is the folks who develop the CsOF aren't old and decrepit yet. I just looked at the June COF. One stage requires shooting from the knees. Another from prone. Another from a kinda twisted position - and these are the "adaptive" alternatives. I can still do those (once my back heals). Will I be able to do them in 5-10 years? I doubt it.
I have lobbied for senior-friendly matches using PRS-type targets and COF but fired from bench or modified prone. Nothing prone. Nothing from the knees. Nothing with a twisted torso.
In my region (central NC), one-day centerfire PRS matches usually fill up with 60 or more shooters. Rimfire? Pfft... 30 or 40. NRL22? 20-30, at least the ones of which I'm aware. One club ran a "senior-friendly" match a couple years ago... but the MD was a guy in his 40s who had no clue that getting into a prone position AT ALL is near-impossible for many, and "modified prone" requiring kneeling on the knees is no better. They ended up with maybe 15 shooters, and haven't had another. Dammit.
I experienced my body decline rapidly from early 60s to early 70s, and I care about my fitness. Whereas I could do 30-40 pushups cold (no stretch/warmup) at 60, I can't do one now without my elbows feeling like they're being impaled with red-hot ice picks. I hold no real hope of being able to shoot competitively in PRS-style matches within another few years... and shooting at paper is simply boring to me personally.
Back to skeet? Steel pistol challenge? Or maybe enough MDs will just leave out their PRS target sets for a seniors match after a PRS event, use the same COF, and let us geezers shoot from positions we can reasonably get into and enjoy.
But, @lion , for now, shoot what you got as regards competition types. I'm not sure what you mean by "eliminating shooters" based on distance to target. Ballistic calculators are everywhere now and Hornady's 4DOF is free and pretty danged good. I've been mentoring a newbie just starting rimfire competition; he did doggone well his first match two weekends ago.
May you be blessed with health good enough to keep shooting for years, sir.
Guess I didn't explain distance to target very well. My bad. 50 & 100 are on the same bench. We shoot 4 groups on 1 target at 50 yds with unlimited sighters. Then we shoot 100 yds on the same bench, 2 10 shot groups with unlimited sighters. Our 200 yard berm is beside the 100 yard. We have to carry the benches to the berm. A little tough for me but the 70 year olds can handle it. One squad shoots while the other pulls targets. We shoot 8 5 shot qroups. Different nights so this is no problem. Last match we had 9 shooters so we had to move 5 benches. When the wind is up it can get interesting. We have traveling trophies for best score, best group & high X count. Very rare for one person to win all 3. Probably boreing for a run & gunner, but exciting enough for us. If I understand correctly in PRS & NRL you shoot different targets at varying distances. Harder for us ond guys to do.
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You are correct. For me, that's part of the allure. Different courses of fire (COF) each month, although NRL22 has some repeatability because they use a standard set of targets and props arranged in a plethora of different ways.
Carrying benches around would not be something I'd want to do, for sure. Heh. I'm thinking that, if you can carry benches, you'd probably be able to handle most of a standard NRL22 course of fire. Each month's COF is posted here. Many MDs will add on a few bonus stages. You do not have to be an NRL22 member to participate. If you find a match near you and contact the MD, I'd be very surprised if every effort wasn't made to make you feel welcome and have a great time. In cases where a standard NRL22 stage has positions I simply cannot achieve, the MD, ROs, and squad members figure out a way that I can shoot and enjoy. ZFull disclosure: I don't participate in the NRL22 points chase. I'm too old and slow to do well anyway, but I would not consider it fair for me to be allowed to skip challenging props (for me, those are the really low-to-the-ground ones like a 5-gallon pail) and still accumulate match points. So, what happens is I'm allowed to substitute a prop I CAN get onto in place of props my body just cannot accommodate anymore.
Check out NRL22 at https://nrl22.com/ . IMPORTANT!!!!! If you google nrl22, you will also see a link for nrl22.org. Things changed with the new season, which started in May 2024. You want nrl22.com for this season's info.
If you only want to shoot from 1 position, at one or a select few distances, then prs22 and nrl22 aren’t for you. And, that’s ok. The point of these disciplines is to get off the bench, and shoot from improvised positions.
I find the bulk of shooters in western Canada want to buy cool centerfire rifles and shoot a pretty tame positional match very occasionally, tending towards bench work without BR focus or commitment. 22LR prs style matches are too hard right out of the gate, and make many physically capable shooters feel bad about themselves. Like guys with very cool cars that refuse to get on the track. It’s a human condition.
That kind of covers it as there are other shooting sports you can do this in. It's fine if all the movement or positions or ranges aren't for you. As mentioned I know the Modern American Rimfire Series does a Tactical Benchrest division where you shoot the same stages but from a bench but again there are different ranges in the stages.
And @DownhillFromHere you are a youngster compared to Lion! LOL
NRL22 has both an "OG"; Old Guys and an Adaptive class. The monthly CoF always lists suggested alternatives for a stage (different starting/shooting positions). Every club I have shot at has gone out of their way to accommodate for a shooter's physical limitations.
The newer offshoot is "Tactical Benchrest" but is not that wide spread yet. A good thread from a member here who started their own match:
Old People Precision Rimfire
Both NRL22 and PRS22 have rules to allow Old Guys to shoot from alternative positions because of physical limitations. What allowances have you seen. I'm not as flexible as I used to be. If I have to go prone, you might as well throw a pillow down there with me, because I'm going to be there...
Here are some photos from the last Tactical Benchrest at Powerline Range near St Clairsville OH. The props have been made to duplicate as much as possible the props used for the regular match but allow shooters to use a stool to sit on while shooting. This is still a work in progress. Next match is July 6, 2024. Signup at 8 AM and match starts at 9 AM. Probably 10 stages.
Bill, this looks perfect for seniors (at least this senior). I cannot make the 06-July match but I would surely like to attend one in the future - despite the 7-8 hour drive each way.
Question: are you ok with my showing your photos to some MDs (especially NRL22 MDs) here in NC? It would be AWESOME to emulate your match here. I can think of at least one place that would try it.
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You're welcome to come. Most months we have a Long Gong match the following day. 300 yards at steel. 8", 6" and 4". Lots of fun with frustration.
If you're going to drive that far you might as well shoot more. Check out Long Gong on Facebook.Yes, you may show photos. We would like to see this grow to other places. @DRACO and Jay are building the props. They have a portable bench and stool at each stage with the prop C-clamped to the bench. Many other ideas could be used depending on the available resources at each club.
As I mentioned MARS has a Tactical Benchrest division and you can be a MARS club or not as MARS will add any match with at least 8 stages and 10 shooters to your score in Tactical Benchrest. Any clubs looking to do this should contact Tony about being a MARS club and promoting it.
Thanks for the replies and responses. Looks pretty much like I will have to settle for shooting matches at my home range. I still travel to shoot ARA matches. What started me on this search was the article about the Austrailian shooter with a record group in the .900 range. In the last 10 years I have shot groups smaller than that. Granted the conditions were really good but the 2 best were .720 and .706. Since there were no official measurments I can't really prove anything, but I do have the targets yet. I'm content with being able to shoot with friends and enjoying myself. Thanks to everyone, Wayne
the challenge with NRL22 is that it’s the same course of fire for a whole month, regardless of where you compete for that whole month. I get the uniformity aspect, but I almost wish they’d put out 2 COF’s per month to add more frequent opportunities to change up the same old props or targets to motivate us to compete more frequently.
This is where I feel that PRS Rimfire has the advantage, as I can go shoot 3-4 matches in the same month and get 3-4 totally different COF’s and props all in the same month.
I’d more willing to drive 3-6+ hours to attend a match I haven’t shot 90% of the stages before earlier that month.
I am thankful for how many new shooters NRL22 draws in (as I myself once was less intimidated to try a NRL22 match vs PRS due to having the COF weeks in advance)
This is where I feel that PRS Rimfire has the advantage, as I can go shoot 3-4 matches in the same month and get 3-4 totally different COF’s and props all in the same month.
I’d more willing to drive 3-6+ hours to attend a match I haven’t shot 90% of the stages before earlier that month.
I am thankful for how many new shooters NRL22 draws in (as I myself once was less intimidated to try a NRL22 match vs PRS due to having the COF weeks in advance)
If you have a place to practice, I see the NRL22 COFs as great drills. The problem with matches is that there are many hardworking but not always educated Match Directors out there. They often add conditions to their stages that make the scores almost the same because half the points are from an impossible situation. It’s cool if you are 1/2hr from home, but investing $1K to shoot these matches is not useful.
Here on the Outer Banks of NC we host monthly MARS events with 8-10 stages at distances from 25 to 400+ yards. These are barricade rifle events with an occasional position (standing, kneeling, sitting, or prone) thrown in to maintain your skills. Called a gimmicky circus by some, we have a lot of fun creating these, and since everyone shoots the same COF from the same props, they still have the same skill level requirements. We will gladly accommodate shooters with special needs and you can find us easily on Practicscore and our facebook group- OBX Precision Rimfire Club. Only $30 for non members and all fees roll right back into providing new props, targets, and a prize table for our season finale.
I will also add the gentleman responsible for starting our club has moved on to start/host monthly MARS events at Bear Swamp in Suffolk Virginia
Here on the Outer Banks of NC we host monthly MARS events with 8-10 stages at distances from 25 to 400+ yards. These are barricade rifle events with an occasional position (standing, kneeling, sitting, or prone) thrown in to maintain your skills. Called a gimmicky circus by some, we have a lot of fun creating these, and since everyone shoots the same COF from the same props, they still have the same skill level requirements. We will gladly accommodate shooters with special needs and you can find us easily on Practicscore and our facebook group- OBX Precision Rimfire Club. Only $30 for non members and all fees roll right back into providing new props, targets, and a prize table for our season finale. View attachment 8447899View attachment 8447900
