Assange free

well here is my .02.
assange and snowden should be revered as top level heros. so should any whistleblower. did what they did "endanger" our troops? perhaps. the corrupt,power mad neocons who sent them into all of our recent undeclared "wars" put them in a lot more danger. a whistleblower,like snowden or assange,risks their life far more than the average military member. no,i don't mean those in the real combat jobs. the makeup of our military is a whole different discussion of course. endangered our murders,kidnappers,thieves and disruption doing "spooks"? maybe a career alternative to kidnapping,murder and undermining other countries might be considered by those people. they made available info to the american people that which should be out in the open. i am afraid that congress can not be trusted to supervise our clandestine players. but then no president i can name is either. as usual,most of the american sheeple are unaware and uninterested.
i have always been curious as to why the brits grabbed him,held him or didn't kill him. they kept hess locked up for >40 years after the end of the war. don't know if there is any analogy in that.

mrdrar said:

This does not set any legal precedent.

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I was not sure when I typed it... but it does seem to me that it somehow is contrary to the Supreme Court decision from the Pentagon Papers case. Now that may not set any precedent? But how is it that a judge would accept a plea of guilty for something that was clearly not illegal... or charges that should not have been brought?

I'm not arguing against you. But can you expand on how this is 'not' precedent-setting? Or how it does not dilute an earlier SCOTUS decision?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Cheers,

Sirhr

people are locked up (and killed) in this country all the time for acts that are legal. most judges will do anything their masters direct. so,not sure how that works out but innocence here is no protection from illegal action action by the gov. eg 1/6,trumps trials. guilt here does not = arrest or prosecution. eg biden,garland actions,big city non stop riots.

mosin46 said:

i have always been curious as to why the brits grabbed him,held him or didn't kill him. they kept hess locked up for >40 years after the end of the war. don't know if there is any analogy in that.

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They would have if they could have, but by that time the case was way to publicly known and most of the common folks in England were on his side and there was also probably some agreement with the embassy before they let the police in to grab him, that they weren't going to do anything that would make the Venezuelans look a bit too bad back home.

By the time the evil British arrested him, years had gone by and he was an international poster child for USA government evil and oppression.

I would not be surprised if perhaps one of the "insurance files" he had put out was actually real and had stuff in there to be released in case he died that the "good folks" wouldn't find it easy to just ignore like the rest of everything he warned about.

kthomas said:

I'm watching the 'Octopus Murders' on Netflix currently.

Its been interesting...

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Yes interesting to say the least .. Fucking LE on scene declared it suicide, No autopsy on body, State coroner embalmed body in 48 hr's, Death Certificate labeled 'Suicide' even though the right Wrist was sliced across 8 times completely severing all it's tendons. Then somehow Casolaro gripped the razor or knife in his flopping right hand with all it's tendons completely severed. To then cut 4 slashes across his Left Wrist completely severing all it's tendons also. Then Casolaro runs around smearing blood all over the hotel room walls, climes into a bath tub full of water to then bleed out . also Day before his death, and meeting his last contact, Casolaro tells his brother that ..."if an accident should happen to me, It Not an Accident".
.

sirhrmechanic said:

I was not sure when I typed it... but it does seem to me that it somehow is contrary to the Supreme Court decision from the Pentagon Papers case. Now that may not set any precedent? But how is it that a judge would accept a plea of guilty for something that was clearly not illegal... or charges that should not have been brought?

I'm not arguing against you. But can you expand on how this is 'not' precedent-setting? Or how it does not dilute an earlier SCOTUS decision?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Click to expand...

Was this plea deal done in an international court? That would explain it

W54/XM-388 said:

So a bunch of lazy "good folks" could cluck their head and say such a shame while doing absolutely nothing about it?
So another bunch of stupid jingoistic blowhards could cheer because "my military security" or some such B.S.

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Gun forums are full of people wringing their hands over complying with magazine capacity restrictions while traveling to other states.

higginsworksforme said:

Gun forums are full of people wringing their hands over complying with magazine capacity restrictions while traveling to other states.

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The Pentagon Papers showed that some 50,000 American boys died and hundreds of thousands more were injured physically and metally, by a war that was fought for... political reasons. The Pentagon Papers release fueled the North Vietnamese offensives and made them stand down at the peace talks... prolonging the war and killing lots of American Boys... by compromising their security.

The left was Ecstatic about the whole thing. Ellsburg is Democrat Royalty. Colleges pay him fortunes to speak. The NYT was lauded for their 'courage.'

Ellsburg was the guilty party. NYT was doing its job, repellent as it might seem.

Ellsburg should have been shot for treason. The NYT should have (and I think did) get a Pulitzer.) The American people got to see that the whole thing was a giant lie. Well, not the whole thing. And there were foreign policy and 'Cold War' needs to be met. But were they worth 50,000 Americans? Or could they have been handled other ways? I argue for door number 2.

That's how checks and balances work and why we need a 'functioning' Fifth Estate. Not fascist National Socialist (owned by corporate billionaires) propaganda that would make Goebbels proud. Who calls everyone else Natzees... while being actual Natzees themselves! National Socialism is still socialism...

For those not paying attention.... Just a bit North of here in @Sean the Nailer 's AO...

Yes, they are arresting people in Canada for talking:


Justin Bieber - er Trudeau - sure seems skeered of people 'talking.' He should be after the election the other day.

Oh and the Westchester folks ousted their pet "Squad" Congressman after one term... in a shocking primary loss. I guess the idea of being Hamas biggest supporter in Congress... elected in the most-Jewish district in the USA... wasn't going to end well. Hope the 'electorate' learned its lesson? Though you know they didn't. (most expensive primary race in history... most expensive congressional House Race in history... even though not even the general election yet... )

As the tiny, vocal, violent left continues to lose ground to the fed-up (and large majority), they will increasingly lash out. Use violence. Intimidation. Arrests. Lawfare. Riots... Propaganda... to save their failing asses. Remember that 1939 - 45 was kicked off by a tiny violent, vocal minority that bludgeoned its way into power -- Legitimately. And once it had its hands on the levers, some 100,000,000 people died. More if you consider the number of people that died in the decades since -- a direct result of continuing political upheaval, cold war, divisions in the M.E. and the killing fields of China and SE Asia.

All because of a tiny vocal socialist minority with great propaganda and ruthless willingness to kill and lie... with the backing of the Industrialists and news magnates...

Does noone read history any more?

Sirhr

PS. As a trained historian... I long wondered how one of the most advanced, cultured, organized and otherwise successful societies in the early 1900's... (The Germans) could have just 'let it all happen.' Well, since we are living through remarkably similar events... and all of us are 'watching it happen' for myriad reasons. Not the least of which is that we are believers in the rule of law. And not prone to using violence to achieve our political or social 'utopia.' We believe in a Constitution that is suppsed to allow political 'forward movement' without violence. That protects the minority and defends against mob rule. We believe that the 'line is drawn' when we try and achieve 'our' happiness by imposing 'stuff' on others. We have jobs... while the tiny minority have funds to organize and spend all day looking to undermine those who are providing the funds (through an economic miracle that is capitalism) for their subversive activities. Because we think 'the system' built by our forefathers will triumph... So we sit back and say 'it's not affecting me.' Well, they came for my neighbor... Blah blah blah. I am not saying what is 'right' to do. But every day I am understanding how 1939 happened.

Einstein had a great quote that I was reminded of last month while at the Royal Armouries... "I do not know how WW 3 will be fought. But WW 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."

It can't happen again. Wonder if anyone has spent enough time to think that through. And what would have happened if the tiny bands of Goose-stepping bund had been squashed in 1932... before they had their hands on the levers of power. And issued the Nuremberg Laws. And had Kristal-nacht. And the Night of the Long Knives. And Burned the Reichstag.

It all would have been so easy, methinks. But that is the problem with revisionist history. And the lesson of Cassandra.

So there ya go.

The most frightening thing is that plenty of people support his arrest, for no reason other than that he acted against the interests of the US, despite acting in the interests of humanity as a whole.

Historians will look at his arrest with intrigue, marking an episode when the US looked impervious to all, but acted with such insecure self-interest and lack of introspection. A power transition is coming.

Fig said:

Both Snowden and Assange should not have run. They should have stood and fought even though the system is rigged. That robbed their acts of the heroism they rightly deserve. Who knows how badly it would have gone for the Deepstate if they had stood and fought. Even more treason and malfeasance could have been exposed. There is even a chance that justice would have been served (a very slim one).

I'm not saying they don't both believe. I'm just saying that like all leftists their beliefs and values don't line up. That requires lying to yourself on a fundamental level, which is why their belief system looks like insanity to people who are in their right minds.

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You are still showing some faith in the system. That is unsound. The system will kill quickly and with impunity if that is a simple available option.

Plot4654 said:

The most frightening thing is that plenty of people support his arrest, for no reason other than that he acted against the interests of the US, despite acting in the interests of humanity as a whole.

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The statists really come out in the gun forums when these things happen. Muh national military secret securities!

Threadcutter308 said:

I have to admit that I was conflicted about Assange until about five or six years ago.

One the one hand, I had bought into the msm/.gov narrative that by releasing the files, Assange had put our Troops and Spooks in danger, which I didn't like one bit. As time went on and the more I thought about it, I considered all the bullshit that the msm had been pulling and how that factored in to the Assange situation. Then, there was the Pompeo Assassination plan. Then, the Brits put Assange in prison. As time went on, it was more and more apparent that what Assange had done was really the right thing to do. And, Assange was being made to pay for it, in a very, very big way.

I'm not sure that I fully embrace the idea that Assange was (or is) a hero. There could very well have been collateral damage as a result of his actions. I don't believe that I will personally ever know and I'm sure as hell not taking anything the msm says about it with any seriousness. I can't say that I think he's the villain that he was/is made out to be either.

It will be interesting to see what Assange does going forward. Maybe he'll decide that he's had enough and that he's just going to lay low. Or, he may say "fuck it" and double down. We'll see.........

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It doesn't help that he is a huge, fucking, self-absorbed douchebag. The Ecuadorians basically kicked him out of their embassy because he had zero gratitude for what they were doing for him, he was ordering their staff around, using all their resources without so much as a thank you, and virtually everyone there came to loathe him as a person. They wanted to stick their finger in the West's eye by protecting him, but life in the embassy just became unbearable with him there. The ambassador finally said enough.

He is as much of a sociopathic narcissist as the politicians and bureaucrat daemons who inhabit our federal government. They always hate their own the most. He's a very bad person, and his aims were never altruistic. That doesn't change that he did nothing wrong. The veil of secrecy that surrounds and permeates our Federal government is why corruption and intrigue has turned out capital into Kings Landing with all these sociopathic narcissists thinking they're playing Game of Thrones with our country. The Republic has been finished for decades. It's now a facade for the political nobility class to justify their crimes against us. Assange exposed them, and all you need to do to see who they are is look at who is howling the loudest.

Emerson0311 said:

You are still showing some faith in the system. That is unsound. The system will kill quickly and with impunity if that is a simple available option.

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You're right. I think all those of us who have sworn to defend and protect The Constitution on some level don't want to believe what's happening before our very eyes, even when we, ourselves, point it out.

Oh, and Seth Rich was not the victim of a robbery. He was executed for crossing the DNC, period. Assange knows this, and I am sure that part of this plea deal was to keep him quiet about it. Anyone who is paying attention knows, just as we know what a sham J6 was, and we know the fraud in the last election was epic.

Mr.BR said:

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History is written by the victors

Mr.BR said:

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This is false.

They are still all up.

That would be completely pointless now anyway.

kthomas said:

I would like to also point out that Obama suspended Habeas Corpus during his presidency - the government currently has the right to indefinitely detain you, if they so please.

The system has been heavily rigged and corrupted, and there are a lot of protections built into this system to skirt any accountability.

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Also, There is a LONG history of people who have tried to whistleblower going through the correct channels.

The Intel community used the FBI to destroy their lives. You would have to be a fucking idiot to trust anything the US government tells you.


Snowden saw what happened to all these people. He wasn't going to make the same mistake.

The Biggest threat to western world and the United States citizens, is the US government and its non-elected intelligence/criminal cabal.

kthomas said:

I would like to also point out that Obama suspended Habeas Corpus during his presidency - the government currently has the right to indefinitely detain you, if they so please.

The system has been heavily rigged and corrupted, and there are a lot of protections built into this system to skirt any accountability.

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter anyway. They can do whatever they want whenever they want. They can ignore law and the constitution. Then hide behind state secrets act. The corrupt courts will not hold them accountable and will allow them to hide behind their unconstitutional "laws". Its perfectly legal for them to Lie to Americans, create false flags, and kill US Citizens without Due Process. They will send us to war for bullshit reasons that deplete our national resources and kill our youth. They will concentrate the benefit in the hands of a small group, as the concentration of wealth grows for them, the poor and middle class get squeezed further.

All non elected bureaucrats who run our shadow government and are accountable to no one. There are a handful of large contracting companies that are interchangeable with the CIA, NSA, DIA, FBI, ect. They bribe/blackmail members of congress, the courts and the executive. They have killed US presidents in the past. They own/control the media.

The people that work for them are no different than the SS, Stasi, or Stalinist Death squads.

Light cleanses the Darkness. If you have to hide everything from the American People for "their own good", then you probably aren't doing it for their benefit.

There needs to be a cleansing.

sirhrmechanic said:

The Pentagon Papers showed that some 50,000 American boys died and hundreds of thousands more were injured physically and metally, by a war that was fought for... political reasons. The Pentagon Papers release fueled the North Vietnamese offensives and made them stand down at the peace talks... prolonging the war and killing lots of American Boys... by compromising their security.

The left was Ecstatic about the whole thing. Ellsburg is Democrat Royalty. Colleges pay him fortunes to speak. The NYT was lauded for their 'courage.'

Ellsburg was the guilty party. NYT was doing its job, repellent as it might seem.

Ellsburg should have been shot for treason. The NYT should have (and I think did) get a Pulitzer.) The American people got to see that the whole thing was a giant lie. Well, not the whole thing. And there were foreign policy and 'Cold War' needs to be met. But were they worth 50,000 Americans? Or could they have been handled other ways? I argue for door number 2.

That's how checks and balances work and why we need a 'functioning' Fifth Estate. Not fascist National Socialist (owned by corporate billionaires) propaganda that would make Goebbels proud. Who calls everyone else Natzees... while being actual Natzees themselves! National Socialism is still socialism...

For those not paying attention.... Just a bit North of here in @Sean the Nailer 's AO...

Yes, they are arresting people in Canada for talking:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/06/25/tommy-robinson-arrested-in-canada-after-giving-address-on-free-speech/

Justin Bieber - er Trudeau - sure seems skeered of people 'talking.' He should be after the election the other day.

Oh and the Westchester folks ousted their pet "Squad" Congressman after one term... in a shocking primary loss. I guess the idea of being Hamas biggest supporter in Congress... elected in the most-Jewish district in the USA... wasn't going to end well. Hope the 'electorate' learned its lesson? Though you know they didn't. (most expensive primary race in history... most expensive congressional House Race in history... even though not even the general election yet... )

As the tiny, vocal, violent left continues to lose ground to the fed-up (and large majority), they will increasingly lash out. Use violence. Intimidation. Arrests. Lawfare. Riots... Propaganda... to save their failing asses. Remember that 1939 - 45 was kicked off by a tiny violent, vocal minority that bludgeoned its way into power -- Legitimately. And once it had its hands on the levers, some 100,000,000 people died. More if you consider the number of people that died in the decades since -- a direct result of continuing political upheaval, cold war, divisions in the M.E. and the killing fields of China and SE Asia.

All because of a tiny vocal socialist minority with great propaganda and ruthless willingness to kill and lie... with the backing of the Industrialists and news magnates...

Does noone read history any more?

Sirhr

PS. As a trained historian... I long wondered how one of the most advanced, cultured, organized and otherwise successful societies in the early 1900's... (The Germans) could have just 'let it all happen.' Well, since we are living through remarkably similar events... and all of us are 'watching it happen' for myriad reasons. Not the least of which is that we are believers in the rule of law. And not prone to using violence to achieve our political or social 'utopia.' We believe in a Constitution that is suppsed to allow political 'forward movement' without violence. That protects the minority and defends against mob rule. We believe that the 'line is drawn' when we try and achieve 'our' happiness by imposing 'stuff' on others. We have jobs... while the tiny minority have funds to organize and spend all day looking to undermine those who are providing the funds (through an economic miracle that is capitalism) for their subversive activities. Because we think 'the system' built by our forefathers will triumph... So we sit back and say 'it's not affecting me.' Well, they came for my neighbor... Blah blah blah. I am not saying what is 'right' to do. But every day I am understanding how 1939 happened.

Einstein had a great quote that I was reminded of last month while at the Royal Armouries... "I do not know how WW 3 will be fought. But WW 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."

It can't happen again. Wonder if anyone has spent enough time to think that through. And what would have happened if the tiny bands of Goose-stepping bund had been squashed in 1932... before they had their hands on the levers of power. And issued the Nuremberg Laws. And had Kristal-nacht. And the Night of the Long Knives. And Burned the Reichstag.

It all would have been so easy, methinks. But that is the problem with revisionist history. And the lesson of Cassandra.

So there ya go.

Click to expand...

OK,a fair enough rendering of the disaster that the 20th cent was. was hitler and all that followed from that the cause or a symptom? i gotta flip a coin on that one. could look at munich the same way,many do. should be noted well that the same/similar process unfolded in russia in 1917. good points as i never really made a direct comparison between lenin and hitlers similar path and process. very true that the events unfolding in germany in 30s are being employed here and now. they worked then and are working now. our lack of industrial power,unpreparedness,military rot and corrupt politics put us in much worse case than eng in 1939. there is nobody out there to come and save us like the US back then. another thing that eng had but which we have far more widespread is an elite group supported by large minorities trying to destroy our society. eng had the cambridge 5 who did a lot of damage but never really had the wheels of power. they were working for stalin not hitler. stalin was a big part of the problem in the 20th. mao was also but not so much an issue in the west in 30s. the widespread presence of nuc weapons makes now very different dynamic as per einstein above. bad that we seem to have many,esp here,that seem eager to use them and think they will benefit thereby.
100M deaths? yea prob. who knows? other bad things happened-famine in india,instability in latin america,africa,mid east all fed into the mess of 2nd 1/2 of the 20th.
when you say "it can't happen again" i know what you mean. but in fact,it can and likely 5 billion deaths +. could be an extinction event.

mrdrar said:

He was kicked out of the Ecuadorian Embassy after an election in Ecuador resulted in a more US friendly administration.

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And apparently after the USA kind of leaned on the new Ecuadorian government, saying "hey you'd like us to be your friends right..."

W54/XM-388 said:

And apparently after the USA kind of leaned on the new Ecuadorian government, saying "hey you'd like us to be your friends right..."

Click to expand...

"Would be a shame if someone coup'ed you..."

mosin46 said:

OK,a fair enough rendering of the disaster that the 20th cent was. was hitler and all that followed from that the cause or a symptom? i gotta flip a coin on that one. could look at munich the same way,many do. should be noted well that the same/similar process unfolded in russia in 1917. good points as i never really made a direct comparison between lenin and hitlers similar path and process. very true that the events unfolding in germany in 30s are being employed here and now. they worked then and are working now. our lack of industrial power,unpreparedness,military rot and corrupt politics put us in much worse case than eng in 1939. there is nobody out there to come and save us like the US back then. another thing that eng had but which we have far more widespread is an elite group supported by large minorities trying to destroy our society. eng had the cambridge 5 who did a lot of damage but never really had the wheels of power. they were working for stalin not hitler. stalin was a big part of the problem in the 20th. mao was also but not so much an issue in the west in 30s. the widespread presence of nuc weapons makes now very different dynamic as per einstein above. bad that we seem to have many,esp here,that seem eager to use them and think they will benefit thereby.
100M deaths? yea prob. who knows? other bad things happened-famine in india,instability in latin america,africa,mid east all fed into the mess of 2nd 1/2 of the 20th.
when you say "it can't happen again" i know what you mean. but in fact,it can and likely 5 billion deaths +. could be an extinction event.

Click to expand...

Yeah... when I say "It can't happen again... " It can and it most certainly will some time.

But it Can't be allowed to happen again.

But sadly, it probably 'will' be allowed to happen again. Not just 'allowed' to happen again... but engineered to happen again. By the very forces who made it happen the first time... in many ways.

Cheers,

Sirhr

PS. And my 100M -120m is probably a bit high... Maybe right including WW1. Then again... the post WW2 number is much higher. 100m in China alone and maybe 150m. Mao was prepared to exterminate 300m (1/3rd of his population) to achieve his shining path. BTW, Wikipedia puts the number for WW2 at about 73 million... but I think that's low... The issue today is that we are now 'so' global that any collapse in the US economy and billions die... the billions fed by our wheat and technology and leadership. Africa, Asia, South America... there are too many mouths without agribusiness. And once the mouths start starving, it's all over everywhere. Even if we can retrench behind our borders and oceans... killing our way out of it will be the end of times... a long Dark Age. It's happened before. It will happen again. But maybe, if we are lucky and say "We can't let this happen again" we'll push off the ineveitable for a couple more centuries. I don't have that much faith in the current crop,though.

Imagine how the world would be different if someone had put a bullet in Hitler in 1927. Or Lenin in 1905. Or Pol Pot when he was just a minor psychopath. Back then, noone knew enough to do so. Today, we know the 'flash points.' We just lack the will or the legal framework. But "Clear and Present Danger" has a legal meaning. And if we get a CinC with balls... well fuck the Church Committee. Game on.

i think your idea of targeted assassination has merit. in retrospect only however. would need a time machine. hitler,stalin,mao,ho,pol pot,amin,castro-all good candidates. who decides and on what basis? the deep states domestic actions have caused big problems. we have done this in chile,congo elsewhere. KGB did it too. taking out ferdinand caused some big problems. results of assinations are just too hard to predict even if you don't object on moral grounds. that is a diff topic.
BTW i just posted a macgregor vid that claims the russ gen staff told him that their ww2 battle losses were 15+ mil. i have always heard 8 mil. but one wonders how a society can survive after that. they had big ww1 losses too.
tends to make me think that a war with them is a non starter for that and many other reasons. nuc for sure. putin was right. it goes nuc and everybody dies.
we can't retrench behind our borders. they have already been massively penetrated.

mosin46 said:

=
we can't retrench behind our borders. they have already been massively penetrated.

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We have not been penetrated enough for 'forces' to matter. If things kick off the 'penetrants' will be exterminated en-masse.

Behind every blade of grass, so to speak. And many of the combatants will be folks who did everyting possible to avoid it... but were pushed into it. Noone fights harder or meaner than the folks who 'just wanted to be left alone.' History proves that one time and again.

Won't be pretty. And we need to avoid it. But using the Balkans as the most likely scenario (not 1861).... the folks who don't 'blend' will be exterminated en-masse in no time. Weeding out the Communists who 'look like everyone else...' Well, that will take longer.

But thanks to social media.... won't be as hard as it was for folks in 1993 Yugoslavia...

Cheers,

Sirhr

you must be an optimist. hope your view is correct. doubt it.

mrdrar said:

He was kicked out of the Ecuadorian Embassy after an election in Ecuador resulted in a more US friendly administration.

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That’s true, but once turned out there were numerous articles about he he treated them, and those jibe with everything else I’ve read about him. You can say that was an excuse, but it seems more like they just had no reason to lie. Seems par for the course.

yes you MUST do all your gov handlers tell you to do in order to discredit someone who has exposed their crimes. i bet snowden kicks his dog and yells at his wife/GF.