Forster FL sizing die, brass wouldn't go in

UndFrm · Jun 26, 2024

New die, followed the instructions included to set it up - twist in until it touches the raises ram and then another 1/8-1/4 turn.
Lubed the once fired brass inside and out, raises the ram but the brass has way too much resistance. Feels like it goes easy for the first quarter and then I practically have to hang on the ram handle to push it in. That's where I stopped. Also tried the same with new, unfired brass, same issue.

Alpha brass
6mm Dasher

I also tried removing the whole recapping unuty (that has the depriming pin and the expander ball) and run the brass just in the die body. Same issue, gets too much resistance at the same 1/4 way in.

New to this so it's likely that I'm not doing something right but I'm not sure what.

Thank you

Punkur67 · Jun 26, 2024

Sounds like not enough lube.... or at least that's what she said

alamo5000 · Jun 26, 2024

what kind of lube? also if you have pics of the setup that might help someone diagnose the problem.

UndFrm · Jun 26, 2024

Imperial sizing die wax

alamo5000 · Jun 26, 2024

Have you inspected the inside of the die? Too much lube can be a problem so try cleaning the inside of the die out really good with some type of mild solvent/degreaser. In a pinch try rubbing alcohol or something of that sort if you don't have anything else (not WD40 btw).

This is not something easily diagnosed from afar.

After you clean the inside of the die out really good try raising the ram and screwing the die OUT about 1/4 to 1/2 turn and try again.

I would also highly recommend leaving the decapping unit out of the die until you figure out what the problem is.

Also try another brand of brass if you have any.

I am just throwing ideas out to see if anything sticks.

UndFrm · Jun 26, 2024

alamo5000 said:
Have you inspected the inside of the die? Too much lube can be a problem so try cleaning the inside of the die out really good with some type of mild solvent/degreaser. In a pinch try rubbing alcohol or something of that sort if you don't have anything else (not WD40 btw).

This is not something easily diagnosed from afar.

After you clean the inside of the die out really good try raising the ram and screwing the die OUT about 1/4 to 1/2 turn and try again.

I would also highly recommend leaving the decapping unit out of the die until you figure out what the problem is.

Good point, I'll take the depriming unit out.
I did inspect and cleaned the inside but without rubbing alocohol. I'll try that next.
In the mean time, I lubed with Lee Resizing lubricant and with immense frustration and force, was able to get the brass all the way up. And to use equal force to get the ram down.
Noticed the following ring just below the shoulder. Not sure if that's an indication of anything?

Thank you

Dolomite · Jun 26, 2024

Forster FL dies sizes the case almost back down to factory size if not smaller. Measure base & should neck junction before and after sizing. I’m guessing is sized the shoulder body junction down about .005 or so. Check the OAL before and after and note the difference. Could be die is out of spec or your chamber is not a match for that die meaning chamber is larger than the die which requires a lot of force to size the brass all the way back down.

Is that a regular FL die or there match die from Forster?

Check out harrels die, send them 3 fired cases and they send you a die to match your chamber.

918v · Jun 26, 2024

UndFrm said:
New die, followed the instructions included to set it up - twist in until it touches the raises ram and then another 1/8-1/4 turn.
Lubed the once fired brass inside and out, raises the ram but the brass has way too much resistance. Feels like it goes easy for the first quarter and then I practically have to hang on the ram handle to push it in. That's where I stopped. Also tried the same with new, unfired brass, same issue.

Alpha brass
6mm Dasher

I also tried removing the whole recapping unuty (that has the depriming pin and the expander ball) and run the brass just in the die body. Same issue, gets too much resistance at the same 1/4 way in.

New to this so it's likely that I'm not doing something right but I'm not sure what.

Thank you

Try this break-in procedure:

Take a fired case, clean it, lube it with imperial wax, slowly run it into the die until you feel resistance, pull the case out and redistribute the lube on the case so it’s covered again, then run that case a little deeper until you feel resistance again. Pull the case out and repeat the cycle, each time running the case a little deeper until the die touches the shell holder.

Then repeat with another case. In my experience this works well, one or two cases maybe three. After that you can size normally.

spife7980 · Jun 26, 2024

I agree with dolomite, get some measurements and assign actual numbers to the issue instead of just guessing.

ma smith · Jun 26, 2024

the fact this thread has zero measurements is a red flag...

resizing is all about taking the brass from point a to point b dimensionally.

measure, measure, measure

AllenOne1 · Jun 26, 2024

I had the same issue the OP is having with a 6.5C die. I ended up sending it back to Forster (their customer service is very good) for inspection. They told me it was fine and sent it back but I did have them hone the neck out to .288. I've always suspected that they sent me a new die, wish I would have marked it before shipping it back. The die I received back works but I always had trouble getting shoulder dents no matter how lightly I lubed the die.

Fast forward: While I was waiting for the Forster die to be returned I ordered a Whidden bushing die. Much better operation wise and the sizing works better with a non-factory chamber.

Advise that you send the Forster die back to your vendor for a refund and purchase a new Whidden bushing die. I would skip the click adjustable one and get the standard bushing die.

memilanuk · Jun 26, 2024

918v said:
Try this break-in procedure:

Take a fired case, clean it, lube it with imperial wax, slowly run it into the die until you feel resistance, pull the case out and redistribute the lube on the case so it’s covered again, then run that case a little deeper until you feel resistance again. Pull the case out and repeat the cycle, each time running the case a little deeper until the die touches the shell holder.

Then repeat with another case. In my experience this works well, one or two cases maybe three. After that you can size normally.

I've had similar experiences with dies that were brandy-new, or had just been cleaned thoroughly. The amount of 'stiction' involved in running an otherwise adequately lubed case through the die is surprising, at least until it builds up a bit of a film inside the die itself.

And yes, it may take a few "sacrificial" cases to do that. It's not like they can't be used for foulers, sighters, positional practice, etc. - I just wouldn't use them in a big match that cycle.

FLIGHT762 · Jun 26, 2024

I would even try some synthetic motor oil on a few cases to try to season the die. On small batches of cases (10-20), I use synthetic motor / gear oil. Works like a champ. You just have to be careful not to use too much, otherwise, you will get case shoulder dents.

I would try this before sending the die back to Forster.

CheapBasterd · Jun 26, 2024

My first Forster die was exactly as you described, it got better after a few dozen cases but it was never smooth as my other dies. "crcrcrcrcr" is the best way to describe it. I bought another Forster die that was honed (possibly polished) and it was night and day from the off the shelf Forster die.

UndFrm · Jun 27, 2024

918v said:
Try this break-in procedure:

Take a fired case, clean it, lube it with imperial wax, slowly run it into the die until you feel resistance, pull the case out and redistribute the lube on the case so it’s covered again, then run that case a little deeper until you feel resistance again. Pull the case out and repeat the cycle, each time running the case a little deeper until the die touches the shell holder.

Then repeat with another case. In my experience this works well, one or two cases maybe three. After that you can size normally.

A lot of responses below mention that it gets easier from case to case. I did what you suggested and it has drastically improved, the case would infact go in now. Probably just a new die thing.

Thank you

redbullitt · Jun 27, 2024

I can see the buttplay angle and extra lube was addressed early on. Very good; carry on.

Dstoenner · Jun 27, 2024

Another thing i have found with every Forster die i own (6br, 6x47L and 22br). I always set my die up so i kiss the bottom of the die at the peak of the stroke. I then put my go gauge in without the stem and see if it touches. All 3 didn’t. They were too long. I ground off the bottom till the go gauge stoped the upward stroke then i use redding competition shell holders to control the set back. I set all of my barrels at .002 more than my go gauge so i have to get the case back to an exact go gauge length and as received these dies won’t do it. But the custom honed nevk is worth every penny

David

memilanuk · Jun 27, 2024

Sticking a steel chamber gauge in a die that by design has to squeeze the brass cases just a little bit *smaller* than the chamber spec to allow for spring back seems like... a really bad idea.

Stick to measuring the sized vs fired brass.

ma smith · Jun 27, 2024

memilanuk said:
Sticking a steel chamber gauge in a die that by design has to squeeze the brass cases just a little bit *smaller* than the chamber spec to allow for spring back seems like... a really bad idea.

Stick to measuring the sized vs fired brass.

+1 ... if that guage ø is not undersized properly what a mess...

memilanuk · Jun 27, 2024

ma smith said:
+1 ... if that guage ø is not undersized properly what a mess...

In theory, it should be way undersized every where but the shoulder datum line. In practice... not something I'd be comfortable with, personally.

Cascade Hemi · Jun 27, 2024

I lubricate new dies. Spray them with One-Shot, lanolin mix, or a q-tip with Imperial. Wipe out with patch after.

As far as Forster goes. I have a 6CM die that sizes the case web of brand new brass back .003". I sent it back for repair twice, now it only sizes new brass back .0025". I can run the same new brass into a 6.5CM Forster die and not size the web. Forster said it's perfect. I don't know if that is what OP has going on but I have since backed off buying Forster sizing dies if possible.

memilanuk · Jun 27, 2024

That'd be frustrating as hell, for sure. But crap like that happens with other brands, too... my Redding Type 'S' F/L bushing 308 Win small base die over-sizes the hell out of the shoulder (diameter), and the custom 21st Century seater die that was made to size from 3x fired cases got sent back at least twice and I finally had a local gunsmith 'fix' it for me.

Moral of the story is that any given brand can have stuff go out that meets their standards, but maybe not the customers.

Dstoenner · Jun 27, 2024

memilanuk said:
Sticking a steel chamber gauge in a die that by design has to squeeze the brass cases just a little bit *smaller* than the chamber spec to allow for spring back seems like... a really bad idea.

Stick to measuring the sized vs fired brass.

I just brought it up with minimal force applied. I was not trying to size it just see where the die was in comparison. The go gauge never touched the shoulder of the die so the die was too long. Hence sized brass would always be too long for my barrels.

Sorry but i am not that stupid

David

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