How current is your training ?

nagantguy

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So I’ve never been trained to not beat old people for look at my car . Never had to be because I’m not a sociopath. But bought would never enter my head .



But these guys are being sent to “retraining” after beating a 78 year old man until he shit himself because he looked at their car . And the city will $250,000, they will go to a training course where they will be told not to beat senior citizens for looking at things - at least while the cameras are running and all will be well and next time they will know to at least make up a crime first .
 
I wonder what that training looks like.

*Course Objectives*
*Don't beat a 78 year old until he shits himself
1- Don't be a retard etc
 
All paid for by the taxpayer. The only way this shit stops if these payouts come out of the pension funds/personal insurance of the offending officers. Same for any other civil suit vs. public servants.

And it sounds like he was pushing their buttons pretty hard…not illegal, and they should have known better, but he has some blame in this as well.

I know we only see the bad stuff, and most cops are good people…at least most of the time…but they should have known better. That said, my (+) interactions w/cops far outnumber my (-) interactions despite a very heavy right foot that has me paying more than my share of the randomly enforced road tax on a pretty regular basis.
 
All paid for by the taxpayer. The only way this shit stops if these payouts come out of the pension funds/personal insurance of the offending officers. Same for any other civil suit vs. public servants.
^^^^
This right here. Sue the cop personally. And if the supervisor told him to do that, sue the supervisor personally. QI only helps in a criminal case, has nothing to do with civil.

The same principle at work when OJ was found not guilty of murders but was sued successfully by the families of the victims.
 
^^^^
This right here. Sue the cop personally. And if the supervisor told him to do that, sue the supervisor personally. QI only helps in a criminal case, has nothing to do with civil.

The same principle at work when OJ was found not guilty of murders but was sued successfully by the families of the victims.
I’m afraid you have that backwards - QI only applies in civil cases of cases of individual liability. Has nothing to do with criminal cases .

But to show how fucked the justice industry/law enforcement has become - losing a $250,000 civil lawsuit over violation of right - does not result in any criminal charges or even guarantee that the offending officers will be placed on the Brady list .
 
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Why does this surprise anyone? Those cops are properly trained. A well trained cop ignores logic,reason and common sense. An extremely well trained cop also lacks good judgement, empathy and compassion towards their fellow man. They mindlessly obey their communist overlords and Trans police chief, support pedophilia as long as it is committed by well connected party members and selectively enforce laws based on social status and connections.

Ever notice how the FBI and DOJ never arrested anyone who fucked a teenager Jeff Epstein pimped or found out Hunter Biden uses cocaine at the White House. But they located every senior citizen at J6 and imprisoned them?

They pay lawsuits only when WE see what they do.
 
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I’m afraid you have that backwards - QI only applies in civil cases of cases of individual liability. Has nothing to do with criminal cases .

But to show how fucked the justice industry/law enforcement has become - losing a $250,000 civil lawsuit over violation of right - does not result in any criminal charges or even guarantee that the offending officers will be placed on the Brady list .
I know you have a good dental plan there at Quantico but I am wondering what doing nothing about these situations is accomplishing?

Do you believe in just bending over and asking for it to be deeper?
 
I know you have a good dental plan there at Quantico but I am wondering what doing nothing about these situations is accomplishing?

Do you believe in just bending over and asking for it to be deeper?
I literally have zero idea what you are speaking of . Just pointing out your mistake - qualified immunity only applies to civil cases not criminal like you stated
 
I literally have zero idea what you are speaking of . Just pointing out your mistake - qualified immunity only applies to civil cases not criminal like you stated
Okay, so you have corrected me and I won't fight that but what is the meaning of all this if nothing is done to correct or stop it? Doing nothing is not a solution.

But the first person to suggest a solution is certainly going to be on a special list. Granted, we are probably already on a list for being in a gun forum.
 
Okay, so you have corrected me and I won't fight that but what is the meaning of all this if nothing is done to correct or stop it? Doing nothing is not a solution.

But the first person to suggest a solution is certainly going to be on a special list. Granted, we are probably already on a list for being in a gun forum.
I’ve laid out my solutions may times - often at your asking
1. No qualified immunity
2. No civil asset forfeitures
3. No Brady list officer can ever work at any LEO or related agency ever again .
4. No more paid vacation after doing something illegal
5. Civil suits for rights violations comes out of officers pockets .
6. What ever crime /rights violations said officer is found guilty of 5x the penalty any other citizens would receive.
7. Make all officers legal reporters - as in if they know of witness a crime committed by another officer they are legally bound to report it / make arrest ( you’d be amazed at how many places this is not a thing - remember Buffalo NY didn’t institute this until 2021-22.after insane steroid head beat handcuffed suspect and a female officer half to death- and everyone just said o he did it again)
So basically except stiffer criminal penalties just be treated like everyone else .
 
I’ve laid out my solutions may times - often at your asking
1. No qualified immunity
2. No civil asset forfeitures
3. No Brady list officer can ever work at any LEO or related agency ever again .
4. No more paid vacation after doing something illegal
5. Civil suits for rights violations comes out of officers pockets .
6. What ever crime /rights violations said officer is found guilty of 5x the penalty any other citizens would receive.
7. Make all officers legal reporters - as in if they know of witness a crime committed by another officer they are legally bound to report it / make arrest ( you’d be amazed at how many places this is not a thing - remember Buffalo NY didn’t institute this until 2021-22.after insane steroid head beat handcuffed suspect and a female officer half to death- and everyone just said o he did it again)
So basically except stiffer criminal penalties just be treated like everyone else .
8) (actually #1 in my book) - Eliminate red flag laws. Then eliminate/felonize Civil Asset Forfeiture.

Good Luck with #7 above. It ain't gonna happen. Rule #1 for LEOs is you never rat out another LEO. Not if you want to survive on the job. Remember, You're going to need backup at times in that dank, dark alley late at night. And you might find yourself without that back up if you rat out another LEO. That LEO (or his/her friends) might just be "occupied elsewhere." Be Careful.

The problem with trying to hold LEOs accountable on a personal basis is that recruitment of new LEOs would suffer severely. Who would want to do that job with so much risk associated with it? Not only risk of personal safety but risk of losing their livelihood if they make one fatal mistake. We'd probably have to resort to something like "The Draft" during the Vietnam War, and set up a conscription system or something. I'm not sure, though, that I'd want LEO candidates that were "drafted" into the job.

Now, more than ever, we need to take responsibility for our own personal safety and carry the tools we need to ensure that safety.
 
8) (actually #1 in my book) - Eliminate red flag laws. Then eliminate/felonize Civil Asset Forfeiture.

Good Luck with #7 above. It ain't gonna happen. Rule #1 for LEOs is you never rat out another LEO. Not if you want to survive on the job. Remember, You're going to need backup at times in that dank, dark alley late at night. And you might find yourself without that back up if you rat out another LEO. That LEO (or his/her friends) might just be "occupied elsewhere." Be Careful.

The problem with trying to hold LEOs accountable on a personal basis is that recruitment of new LEOs would suffer severely. Who would want to do that job with so much risk associated with it? Not only risk of personal safety but risk of losing their livelihood if they make one fatal mistake. We'd probably have to resort to something like "The Draft" during the Vietnam War, and set up a conscription system or something. I'm not sure, though, that I'd want LEO candidates that were "drafted" into the job.

Now, more than ever, we need to take responsibility for our own personal safety and carry the tools we need to ensure that safety.


Easy fix. Make it to when there is a Civil case against a shithead cop, the pay out does not come from the city/gov..... it comes directly from ALL cops in that department. Straight from their paychecks. If they know they could lose a bunch of pay, they will "police" themselves real fast.
 
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Doctor's have insurance for their mistakes as well as the hospitals they work in. Every business has liability insurance.
Sounds like a good idea for the police to carry a liability insurance policy. Insurance companies don't like liabilities. Premiums and cancellations would fix a problem.
 
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Doctor's have insurance for their mistakes as well as the hospitals they work in. Every business has liability insurance.
Sounds like a good idea for the police to carry a liability insurance policy. Insurance companies don't like liabilities. Premiums and cancellations would fix a problem.

That is about the only way attorneys would take the cases. Otherwise, only the wealthy would ever have a chance of fighting ab unlawful arrest.
 
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That is about the only way attorneys would take the cases. Otherwise, only the wealthy would ever have a chance of fighting ab unlawful arrest.
The government wants to make it a part of gun ownership so they can make it so that the police have to carry personal liability insurance.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I will trade one for the other. Just saying that they should have to carry personal liability insurance instead of the taxpayers getting the bill for their screwups.
 
I’ve laid out my solutions may times - often at your asking
1. No qualified immunity
2. No civil asset forfeitures
3. No Brady list officer can ever work at any LEO or related agency ever again .
4. No more paid vacation after doing something illegal
5. Civil suits for rights violations comes out of officers pockets .
6. What ever crime /rights violations said officer is found guilty of 5x the penalty any other citizens would receive.
7. Make all officers legal reporters - as in if they know of witness a crime committed by another officer they are legally bound to report it / make arrest ( you’d be amazed at how many places this is not a thing - remember Buffalo NY didn’t institute this until 2021-22.after insane steroid head beat handcuffed suspect and a female officer half to death- and everyone just said o he did it again)
So basically except stiffer criminal penalties just be treated like everyone else .
Excellent list and I am totally on board. How do we make this happen?
 
Well several states have already pulled qualified immunity.
Some states have pulled civil asset forfeitures now that needs to end at the federal level as well .
Accountability and transparency is key.
All body and dash can footage should be available for public viewing in hours or days - no lengthy court battles to gain access to public info.

It’ll take a long time to undo the culture or corruption and secrecy.
A good first step- absolutely necessary first step is dismissal of ALL officers on the Brady List . AZ has nearly 2000 officers /deputies/ correctional officers/ prosecutors.
It’s very hard to find a national number -

But this law firm claims well over 500,000
My state has nearly 1,000. But I can’t find an entry since 2018- so very outdated and under reported .
Ohio more than 800.

Firing those already know to lie, commit perjury, be domestic abusers , tamper with or manufacture evidence ect. Seems like it would be a no brainer to ensure they were no longer in positions of authority- holding public trust and police powers .
 
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Well several states have already pulled qualified immunity.
Some states have pulled civil asset forfeitures now that needs to end at the federal level as well .

And that's a very excellent start. But the #1 priority in my judgement is eliminating (or altering) Red Flag laws. That's the one thing that could affect me, personally, through no fault or action of my own. The proceeding should, at very least, no longer be "ex parte." The respondent's counsel should be present to argue against the petition. In addition, the respondent should be offered the option of "alternative storage" of their property. That property should no longer be seized/confiscated by LE. There should be facilities, similar to those "Metro Storage" locker places designed specifically for the storage of firearms and ammo (one such example being Gunsitters in PA). The respondent takes all their guns/ammo to that facility and pays for a specialized locker. The locker has 2 separate locking ports on it where padlocks can be put through. The respondent puts his padlock on and the authority ordering the ERPO puts on theirs. They then go to the formal hearing and, by the end of it all (i.e. summary adjudication after all appeals, etc.), the party that doesn't prevail has to take their lock off first. Pure and simple.

Accountability and transparency is key.
All body and dash can footage should be available for public viewing in hours or days - no lengthy court battles to gain access to public info.

It’ll take a long time to undo the culture or corruption and secrecy.

If it can be, at all. Human Nature is what it is, and absolute power corrupts, absolutely!. One good place to start is with the caliber of the candidate that applies for the job. I would have them be subject to intense examinations as to their moral character and honesty/integrity. I'd also prefer candidates that are willing to "seek perfection" in what they do, as most business people strive for that. Always, be better at what you do. Don't rely on a "tolerance of mediocrity as a LEO" to not bother to be better. Be innovative, yes, but *always* within the ROE (ie. not trampling upon anyone's civil and constitutional rights, in the process, just to facilitate their job). I'd actually prefer to see a bare minimum requirement of a Bachelor's degree if that isn't a requirement already.

The problem being, as stated earlier, the available pool of candidates willing to accept the job with those requirements and with the risks previously mentioned would sink to almost nothing. Nobody would be cray cray enough to take the job under those conditions. Witness all the veteran LEOs leaving the job at present. We may very well have to go to a "conscription" system where candidates might be "drafted" for a fixed term of years (5 maybe) to serve as LEOs in the same way the Military folks used to be... of course, subject to the same scrutiny requirements as above (i,e, no "4F"s allowed). Now, for that, I'd be willing to offer much bigger compensation. And should the LEO be KIA'd or severely injured, I'd have the family's house "Tunnel-to-Towered" immediately.

A good first step- absolutely necessary first step is dismissal of ALL officers on the Brady List . AZ has nearly 2000 officers /deputies/ correctional officers/ prosecutors.
It’s very hard to find a national number -

Firing those already known to lie, commit perjury, be domestic abusers , tamper with or manufacture evidence ect. Seems like it would be a no brainier to ensure they're no longer in positions of authority- holding public trust and police powers .
But again, who would replace them, if at all possible? I fear you might have to fire enough of them to cause a severe deficit in the ranks of active LEOs. I mean, we could be talking "Defund the Police" levels of departures. If anything, it should be done by attrition (although one could "incentivize" attrition via bad assignments, etc. in some cases). It's how we did it in the corporate world. I'd only "fire" a LEO if it were "for cause" and the cause is severe enough to be "criminal" (i.e. prison time).
 
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And that's a very excellent start. But the #1 priority in my judgement is eliminating (or altering) Red Flag laws. That's the one thing that could affect me, personally, through no fault or action of my own. The proceeding should, at very least, no longer be "ex parte." The respondent's counsel should be present to argue against the petition. In addition, the respondent should be offered the option of "alternative storage" of their property. That property should no longer be seized/confiscated by LE. There should be facilities, similar to those "Metro Storage" locker places designed specifically for the storage of firearms and ammo (one such example being Gunsitters in PA). The respondent takes all their guns/ammo to that facility and pays for a specialized locker. The locker has 2 separate locking ports on it where padlocks can be put through. The respondent puts his padlock on and the authority ordering the ERPO puts on theirs. They then go to the formal hearing and, by the end of it all (i.e. summary adjudication after all appeals, etc.), the party that doesn't prevail has to take their lock off first. Pure and simple.



If it can be, at all. Human Nature is what it is, and absolute power corrupts, absolutely!. One good place to start is with the caliber of the candidate that applies for the job. I would have them be subject to intense examinations as to their moral character and honesty/integrity. I'd also prefer candidates that are willing to "seek perfection" in what they do, as most business people strive for that. Always, be better at what you do. Don't rely on a "tolerance of mediocrity as a LEO" to not bother to be better. Be innovative, yes, but *always* within the ROE (ie. not trampling upon anyone's civil and constitutional rights, in the process, just to facilitate their job). I'd actually prefer to see a bare minimum requirement of a Bachelor's degree if that isn't a requirement already.

The problem being, as stated earlier, the available pool of candidates willing to accept the job with those requirements and with the risks previously mentioned would sink to almost nothing. Nobody would be cray cray enough to take the job under those conditions. Witness all the veteran LEOs leaving the job at present. We may very well have to go to a "conscription" system where candidates might be "drafted" for a fixed term of years (5 maybe) to serve as LEOs in the same way the Military folks used to be... of course, subject to the same scrutiny requirements as above (i,e, no "4F"s allowed). Now, for that, I'd be willing to offer much bigger compensation. And should the LEO be KIA'd or severely injured, I'd have the family's house "Tunnel-to-Towered" immediately.


But again, who would replace them, if at all possible? I fear you might have to fire enough of them to cause a severe deficit in the ranks of active LEOs. I mean, we could be talking "Defund the Police" levels of departures. If anything, it should be done by attrition (although one could "incentivize" attrition via bad assignments, etc. in some cases). It's how we did it in the corporate world. I'd only "fire" a LEO if it were "for cause" and the cause is severe enough to be "criminal" (i.e. prison time).
As to your last point - Brady lost offenses would get me or you jammed up and a record and probably jail time .

Evidence tampering- wife beating - perjury- I don’t give a fuck if firing them all would be akin to “defund “ how we got to where we are is these cunts were allowed to stay on the job when they did this shit . I’d rather have 5 good one then 3000 bad ones with the 5 good men .
Like I said above according to that law firm over 500,000 names have been added to Brady list since the 1990s .

So anyone that says a few bad apples is chronically stupid or flat out lying
 
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As to your last point - Brady lost offenses would get me or you jammed up and a record and probably jail time .

Evidence tampering- wife beating - perjury- I don’t give a fuck if firing them all would be akin to “defund “ how we got to where we are is these cunts were allowed to stay on the job when they did this shit . I’d rather have 5 good one then 3000 bad ones with the 5 good men .
Like I said above according to that law firm over 500,000 names have been added to Brady list since the 1990s .

So anyone that says a few bad apples is chronically stupid or flat out lying

Agreed, actually. One bad apple is bad enough. Indeed, it does "spoil the whole bunch." And, I guess if that means we have to live with "Defund the Police" levels for a time then, perhaps, it's what we have to do.

BTW, this "Brady" list thing had me quite confused until I went to the website and read about it. Previously, when someone said "Brady" to me in a 2A context, I'd immediately think "James Brady" and/or the Brady coalition for Gun safety, etc, etc, and related groups. :eek:
 
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Agreed, actually. One bad apple is bad enough. Indeed, it does "spoil the whole bunch." And, I guess if that means we have to live with "Defund the Police" levels for a time then, perhaps, it's what we have to do.

BTW, this "Brady" list thing had me quite confused until I went to the website and read about it. Previously, when someone said "Brady" to me in a 2A context, I'd immediately think "James Brady" and/or the Brady coalition for Gun safety, etc, etc, and related groups. :eek:
Nope it’s a list of asshole wife beating criminals that still enjoy the warm embrace of the blue line mafia
 
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good discussion. mine-recruiting the right people has always been hard,now seems impossible. IMHO the place to start is the existing laws and the use of LEOs. drug laws,most traffic laws,guarding politicians are all stupid or worse. there are so many useless,abusive and exploitative laws on the books that getting them enforced is a useless waste of resources. the old protect life,liberty and property ideas are long dead. esp true at fed level but very much exists at all gov levels. BS laws are easier to enforce and have less risk so marginal people as cops can be expected to concentrate there. footstep,mask,lock down,speeding ticket laws are not unique just examples. must be recognized also that at times violent,lethal police action is required and justified. makes these issues harder to get right. ideas above about dumping criminal existing cops and holding cops to much higher standards with much graver penalties are right on. i am not smart enough to do anything but recognize the problems and the futility of finding an answer. yea,1 good one better than 100 bad ones.
 
Yes drug laws and protecting the ruling class has separated our “hero’s” from the common man . Add in blatant theft from innocent citizens AND fucking traffic revenue- never forget 2020 the blue cunts couldn’t stop a riot or an arson but wrote over $6 billion in traffic fines- that does not include stops that led to other charges . Glad they had time to do that .
 



50 years in combined law enforcement experience and they are clueless about why they can’t make unlawful arrests.
And claim not to know the law .