Powder unavailability

#201
Im2bent said:
I've got news for you, this is an election year as such EVERYTHING is going to be super scarce/expensive.
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I fail to see what the election year has to do with powder scarcity. Now Ukrainian and Tawain and the pathetic state of our stockpiles is something to be concerned so far this year I have sent a small fortune on powder bullets and primers not so much because my stocks are low but the guns I mentioned are all acquired in the last six months and I still have a Shiloh sharps due this summer after three years lastly I am going to a precision rifle built in 6 mm gt
That is a lot to work up loads for! Hence my need for additional material my original stockpile can’t support. Then I found out most of the powders I usually use are not available. Which lead to my first opinion of why there was a shortage. If people have seen my addenda to last weeks post you will see I have a different prospective now.
 
#203
cuirc said:
To All who chimed in, particularly the more negative ones, that seem more interested in sexual connotations. I had a conversation with Hodgdon today about the powder situation. They do not expect any relief before the summer at best due to the unavailability of nitrocellulose. With regard to eliminating Enduron powders only 5 poor selling powders will be discontinued; they are 4166, 4451, 4955, 7077,and 8133. They recognize that many IMR powders such as 4350 and 4895 are very popular and will continue.
Also you can go to their Web site and order available powders. As for the unavailable such as 4895 they have a wish list where you can list what you want, that is not available. I have no idea how much this could help on future delivery but I put 7 on my list!
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Better take a shower ,You've been Hosed !. Some industry jerk wad is blowing smoke up your ass ,because Hodgdon doesn't manufacture it ,they ONLY source it . As I've already stated in another section of this forum , NONE of the components are in short supply .

Making Nitrocellulose isn't difficult nor expensive . Aka cellulose nitrate , nitrating cellulose through exposure to nitric fume and sulfuric acid to prevent dilution .
The process uses the nitric acid to convert the cellulose into cellulose nitrite and water:
Chemical formula is :
2HNO3+ C6H10O5 → C6H8(NO2)2O5 + 2H2O

The sulfuric acid is used to prevent the water produced from the reaction , from diluting the concentrated nitric acid. Bases for single double and even triple base smokeless powders .


https://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/4834956/2024-nitrocellulose-market-outlook-report
 
#204
Ex E6 said:
Better take a shower ,You've been Hosed !. Some industry jerk wad is blowing smoke up your ass ,because Hodgdon doesn't manufacture it ,they ONLY source it . As I've already stated in another section of this forum , NONE of the components are in short supply .

Making Nitrocellulose isn't difficult nor expensive . Aka cellulose nitrate , nitrating cellulose through exposure to nitric fume and sulfuric acid to prevent dilution .
The process uses the nitric acid to convert the cellulose into cellulose nitrite and water:
Chemical formula is :
2HNO3+ C6H10O5 → C6H8(NO2)2O5 + 2H2O

The sulfuric acid is used to prevent the water produced from the reaction , from diluting the concentrated nitric acid. Bases for single double and even triple base smokeless powders .


https://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/4834956/2024-nitrocellulose-market-outlook-report
Click to expand...
I am well aware of how yeti make nitroCellulose it is basically the same for nitroglycerin quoting the chemical formulas is unimpressive there are only so many production lines and so many workers to man them we have one ear on and we have to prepare for the next one. The state of our readiness, a large part of which material particularly such items as 155 mm howitzer shells. I believe nitrocellulose is one of the main components in the propellant for these. And with the retard in charge the situation is even more dire.
Does Hodgdon make the nitro… I don’t know I was of the opinion general dynamics did and I bet they their asses are sucking wind. So fuck off till you know haw bad off we are
 
#205
cuirc said:
I am well aware of how yeti make nitroCellulose it is basically the same for nitroglycerin quoting the chemical formulas is unimpressive there are only so many production lines and so many workers to man them we have one ear on and we have to prepare for the next one. The state of our readiness, a large part of which material particularly such items as 155 mm howitzer shells. I believe nitrocellulose is one of the main components in the propellant for these. And with the retard in charge the situation is even more dire.
Does Hodgdon make the nitro… I don’t know I was of the opinion general dynamics did and I bet they their asses are sucking wind. So fuck off till you know haw bad off we are
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NO Hodgdon only sources powders from manufacturers they DON'T make shit never have . With exception to black powder Pyrodex substitute or at least used too .

ATK ,General Dynamics produces Winchester powder and Ball ONLY at the old St. Marks facility in Florida . They do repackage some Ball powers for Hodgdon , such as H 110= Winchester 296 .

USA regulations Government bureaucratic crap has all but driven out any USA smokeless powder producers . Only ATK aka General Dynamics remains and they're Military producers #1 ,so shortages are probable . NO surplus ammo from Lake City ,because Biden stopped sales !.

Now with France ( St. Gobain ) acquiring CSR & Thales ( formerly ADI ) Hodgdon's is up Shit Creek without a paddle .

https://www.aumanufacturing.com.au/australia-and-france-collaborate-in-supplying-ukraine
 
#207
Rocketmandb said:
@Frank Green is the reason I have north of 150lbs of powder stocked up (including more than 30 of RL 26 - I'm getting nervous there, as I'm down from my high of 45lbs!)

Back in the October before Ukraine started, when PMing about/ordering a barrel, he gave me cryptic advice to stock up on everything reloading related. Not that I needed too much prodding given the pandemic had made stuff scarce, but this, combined with a few acquaintances in the military telling me "something is up" made me really take it to heart. I bought up every bit of powder I could find that I regularly loaded, regardless of price (yes, I paid the Gunbroker tax on quite a few lbs and on not an insignificant number of primers and bullets). I actually drove three hours up to Reno because a "local" store had 6 lbs of RL26 - only 2 remained by the time I arrived. At least it's a nice drive...

Today, I don't fret about component availability, as I can look up as I write this and gaze into my closet where I have ~15k primers, a bunch of powder, and not enough support on the shelves to carry the weight of all my bullets.

Thanks Frank! (though my bank account does not like you)

TL: DR When Frank talks, listen.
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I haven’t seen rl 26 since 2020…good for you
 
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#208
Frank Green said:
Maybe in 3 years time frame from what I'm hearing/seeing.

read my post #32.

I'll add VV powder is a little more available.

Guys we make ammunition test barrels even for the powder makers... usually I can order powder direct and I haven't been able to order anything direct for the last about 1.5 years.
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I followed your advice in our conversation by phone a month or so ago on this and a few other topics, and bought an 8lb jug of VV N555 since it was a powder you mentioned as well suited for 6.5CM.

Glad I did as you advised, should keep me in business for the rest of this year and I can get more powder as it comes up without worrying too much about it.
 
#209
Sniperwannabee said:
I haven’t seen rl 26 since 2020…good for you
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Frank: My recent review of the situation only endorses your prudencey War is coming Ukraine seems most likely but I am also concerned about China. The possibility of France and Poland intervening and drawing other NATO members and Putin using battlefield nukes will draw the rest of NATO and WW3!! I doubt a full nuclear exchange because genetically non of us are suicidal. But grab every bit of ammo and components you can I am going to check the CMP for 308 as well as buy any component I can use.
Problem here is everyone else will have to do the same so to the quick go the rewards. And practice our long range skills; those still young enough to pull a trigger or spot will be needed. We can't count on this current Generation.
 
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#210
cuirc said:
Frank: My recent review of the situation only endorses your prudencey War is coming Ukraine seems most likely but I am also concerned about China. The possibility of France and Poland intervening and drawing other NATO members and Putin using battlefield nukes will draw the rest of NATO and WW3!! I doubt a full nuclear exchange because genetically non of us are suicidal. But grab every bit of ammo and components you can I am going to check the CMP for 308 as well as buy any component I can use.
Problem here is everyone else will have to do the same so to the quick go the rewards. And practice our long range skills; those still young enough to pull a trigger or spot will be needed. We can't count on this current Generation.
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I'd worry a little closer to Home ,as in Southern border infiltrators and their pals who've replaced the millions now squatting illegally inside our Country . Thanks in large part to criminal demented pedophile masquerading as someone who knows anything !.
 
#211
Ex E6 said:
I'd worry a little closer to Home ,as in Southern border infiltrators and their pals who've replaced the millions now squatting illegally inside our Country . Thanks in large part to criminal demented pedophile masquerading as someone who knows anything !.
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Ex E6 said:
I'd worry a little closer to Home ,as in Southern border infiltrators and their pals who've replaced the millions now squatting illegally inside our Country . Thanks in large part to criminal demented pedophile masquerading as someone who knows anything !.
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That's two worries only a change in administration will help alleviate some of it
 
#212
O/P, after 5 pages of this, if someone wants to help, could you list the exact powders you're looking for?

I'm sure some of your needed powders may show up here or there on a powder supplier's inventory somewhere. If someone see one of your needed powders, they can let you know.
 
#213
FLIGHT762 said:
O/P, after 5 pages of this, if someone wants to help, could you list the exact powders you're looking for?

I'm sure some of your needed powders may show up here or there on a powder supplier's inventory somewhere. If someone see one of your needed powders, they can let you know.
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Thank You for the thought if you followed this we did get into a lot distractions all of which were entertaining.
But as far as powers go that I would like to get they are 7278, 4895 and Ram shot Magnum. One thing this. exercise did was convince me to look at outer powders so I wound up with about 10 new powders to work with
 
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#216
cuirc said:
Thank You for the thought if you followed this we did get into a lot distractions all of which were entertaining.
But as far as powers go that I would like to get they are 7278, 4895 and Ram shot Magnum. One thing this. exercise did was convince me to look at outer powders so I wound up with about 10 new powders to work with
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I don't know if you're aware of this, Accurate 2495 is a close equivalent for IMR 4895. Accurate 2495 used to be sourced overseas. It is now sourced from the General Dynamics powder plant in Valleyfield, Ontario, Canada. The same plant that produces most of the IMR branded rifle powders. Look at the current IMR and Accurate powder containers. They will show they are made in Canada.

I had 2- 8# containers of the old Accurate 4064. It was sourced from the Czech Republic. That powder was very good.

I'm down to the last pound of the Czech sourced powder, so I recently bought a new can of Accurate 4064 to try. It is Made in Canada. I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Accurate 2495 might be worth trying out.
 
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#217
FLIGHT762 said:
I don't know if you're aware of this, Accurate 2495 is a close equivalent for IMR 4895. Accurate 2495 used to be sourced overseas. It is now sourced from the General Dynamics powder plant in Valleyfield, Ontario, Canada. The same plant that produces most of the IMR branded rifle powders. Look at the current IMR and Accurate powder containers. They will show they are made in Canada.

I had 2- 8# containers of the old Accurate 4064. It was sourced from the Czech Republic. That powder was very good.

I'm down to the last pound of the Czech sourced powder, so I recently bought a new can of Accurate 4064 to try. It is Made in Canada. I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Accurate 2495 might be worth trying out.
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No I was not aware of that detail, I am not comfortable experimenting with powders even when I have good reason to be comfortable with their similarity. From the loading books which I stick to, I probably could be comfortable working up a load for 4895 using H4895 data; if you look at the loads for each they are similar. I have a nuclear background which disposes me to follow procedure strictly.
 
#218
cuirc said:
No I was not aware of that detail, I am not comfortable experimenting with powders even when I have good reason to be comfortable with their similarity. From the loading books which I stick to, I probably could be comfortable working up a load for 4895 using H4895 data; if you look at the loads for each they are similar. I have a nuclear background which disposes me to follow procedure strictly.
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What fun is that ,live a little experiment just remember the 5% rule and Don't exceed it .

Fyi : After 58.4 years of reloading ,still got both eyes ,ears ,hands and ALL their digits and have NEVER ruined a weapon yet !.

Manuals are GOOD things ,they give Min-Max. charges for calibers based upon bullet weights as well as " PRESSURES " .

However I as many have Multiple manuals and NO two are set in stone . Pressure signs of cases or sticky bolt lifts are the shooters guideline .

Don't worry about Brand change as much as Powder Type change . Perfect case in point ; H110 is Winchester 296 ,regardless of what manuals say ,they're the same damn powder .

H4350 and IMR 4350 are NOT the same . Reasoning is Hodgdon didn't want to be sued ,for infringing on Dupont's formula ,so they requested a variation in the stabilizer . MANY MANY Powder distributors also needed slight variations so as NOT to duplicate a Company's powder ,it's patent infringement or was during manufacturing by the " Other Company " . Now days Powder is made outside USA and by " Other Company's " !.
So USA distributors sell the " Other Company's " powders and not everyone makes it just like the Old Company's did .
Hence the %5 rule ,variation from Batch to batch ,original formula improvements as well as " Newer" additives .
 
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#219
For what ever the reason we all agree that for some powders there is a current scarcity. I recently saw a report on the scarcity of 155mm Howitzer shells. Their propellant is predominantly or completely is nitrocellulose.
The possibility of a war in Europe and elsewhere involving us should not be ignored. I am buying all the powders I can use (thanks for the input from this thread I became aware of the world of powders outside of IMR and have reacted to it. I think at some point in the near future the availability of any powder in questionable.
I certainly hope I am wrong.
 
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#220
i just ordered 8 lb's of AA 2520 .first i was in shock .had been looking for weeks no one had any. i had been thinking oh well so much for that powder, it gone for ever .and i got it with free shipping oh happy days ,its my go to for 223 85 gr Barnes
 
#227
Hey all, I'm new to the community and wanted to ask a question on nitrocellulose production. With General Dynamics St Marks plant being the only supplier of smokeless powder for small and medium munitions in the States (far as I can tell? There's BAE that runs Radford which is a government facility. There might be Nammo Talley in Arizona? It'd be great to get a definitive list of NC producers in the States and globally, I apologize in advance for my ignorance). Might anyone know how much profit percent St Marks makes per unit of powder? Probably different on mil vs commercial contracts. Guess it's a question of cost/profit. Anyways, it's a great thread and with all the good conversation, thought I'd chime in too. Cheers, MTK
 
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#228
MackTK said:
Hey all, I'm new to the community and wanted to ask a question on nitrocellulose production. With General Dynamics St Marks plant being the only supplier of smokeless powder for small and medium munitions in the States (far as I can tell? There's BAE that runs Radford which is a government facility. There might be Nammo Talley in Arizona? It'd be great to get a definitive list of NC producers in the States and globally, I apologize in advance for my ignorance). Might anyone know how much profit percent St Marks makes per unit of powder? Probably different on mil vs commercial contracts. Guess it's a question of cost/profit. Anyways, it's a great thread and with all the good conversation, thought I'd chime in too. Cheers, MTK
Click to expand...
Lol ok fed
 
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#229
Lol ok pal piss off. It's a good question. I just got into loading literally a couple years ago and everyone complains about high prices and low supply... soo... what the hell are they actually making? Clearly you don't know lol.
 
#238
MackTK said:
I'm not, sorry if it came off like that
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Just so you know, asking questions like the exact locations, production amounts, and finances of nitrocellulose producers in one of the main countries who is already involved in what may be an upcoming world conflict seems a little suspect.

That information would likely be viewed as a bit sensitive by the country who is in possession of it. Foreign state actors are probably already in possession of that information, but it still isn't something that you would want to publicize.
 
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#240
ya gotta understand , I don’t think anyone cares what the profit margins are for nc plants in the u.s. I get that it may impact costs and such but it just doesn’t play the part of consuming our thoughts. 🤷‍♂️ I can say for myself that it’s gotta be difficult to be new into the hobby with the on going battle of sourcing components. I’ve found myself paying crazy prices just to keep shooting and as long as I can afford to I will. It’s just a hobby for me
 
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#241
MackTK said:
Hey all, I'm new to the community and wanted to ask a question on nitrocellulose production. With General Dynamics St Marks plant being the only supplier of smokeless powder for small and medium munitions in the States (far as I can tell? There's BAE that runs Radford which is a government facility. There might be Nammo Talley in Arizona? It'd be great to get a definitive list of NC producers in the States and globally, I apologize in advance for my ignorance). Might anyone know how much profit percent St Marks makes per unit of powder? Probably different on mil vs commercial contracts. Guess it's a question of cost/profit. Anyways, it's a great thread and with all the good conversation, thought I'd chime in too. Cheers, MTK
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I wrote a similar thread about 8 months ago and was greater negatively especially by he pirate. However I didn't l that bother me. I spoke to Hodgdon, the power supplier. Note they don't make he powder just distribute it. What they told me at the time was that we should see improvement by summer. But there are still several powders, based on my recent conversation with them that don't have a lot of hope for; such as 4198 and 7828. So what I have done is built a powder library of what is available and added powders that came in, such as Magnum.
I think this is the only approach. Take your list of firearms and several of the manuals identify those you can use, check a supplier like Powder Valley for their inventory. Buy all you identify for your guns. Buy more that necessary I bought 4 pounds of each I can use. Now when I want to load for a particular cartridge I have 1 - 3 powders to choose from. To do this right is expensive but I see no alternative other than finding a new hobby. To gain this flexibility I bought about 30 pounds of powder. I keep watch on my inventory and replace what I am low on. I also watch the vendor inventory and buy strategically what are good powders for what I reload if I don't have it or are low on it.

Good luck talk to a bank about a loan.
 
#242
Review the stock market report or World Chem analysis ,this is a shooting forum .

Fyi ; Nitro ,Nitric acid ,Nitroglycerin and Nitro cellulose are used for far more than making smokeless powder .


The Nitrocellulose Market (2024-2030) research report provides a detailed analysis of the market's various types [E-grade Nitrocellulose, M-grade Nitrocellulose, A-grade Nitrocellulose, Others] and applications [Coatings and Paints, Printing Inks, Celluloid, Others]. Our report is presented in 100 pages and tables, featuring the most valuable data, growth factors, and competition analysis, as well as market conditions for the forecast period up to 2030.

“According to Our latest ResearchReport on the Global Nitrocellulose Market reveals that the industry is experiencing substantial growth worldwide. The report provides acomprehensive analysis of the market's current size, trends, share, and economic analysis, as well as a forecast for the year up to 2030.” Ask for a Sample Report

Moreover, The main purpose of the Nitrocellulose Market Research Report is to provide a comprehensive analysis of the worldwide market, highlighting key stakeholders in the Companion industry. The report gives an overview of the market's past and present condition, while also outlining expected market growth and trends in a user-friendly manner. Additionally, the report includes information on market volume, share, revenue, production, and sales.

Get a Sample Copy of the Nitrocellulose Market Report 2024-2030

Nitrocellulose Market Report Overview – BOL determining profit % of Defense contractors :ROFLMAO:​

 
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#243
Ex E6 said:
Review the stock market report or World Chem analysis ,this is a shooting forum .

Fyi ; Nitro ,Nitric acid ,Nitroglycerin and Nitro cellulose are used for far more than making smokeless powder .


The Nitrocellulose Market (2024-2030) research report provides a detailed analysis of the market's various types [E-grade Nitrocellulose, M-grade Nitrocellulose, A-grade Nitrocellulose, Others] and applications [Coatings and Paints, Printing Inks, Celluloid, Others]. Our report is presented in 100 pages and tables, featuring the most valuable data, growth factors, and competition analysis, as well as market conditions for the forecast period up to 2030.

“According to Our latest ResearchReport on the Global Nitrocellulose Market reveals that the industry is experiencing substantial growth worldwide. The report provides acomprehensive analysis of the market's current size, trends, share, and economic analysis, as well as a forecast for the year up to 2030.” Ask for a Sample Report

Moreover, The main purpose of the Nitrocellulose Market Research Report is to provide a comprehensive analysis of the worldwide market, highlighting key stakeholders in the Companion industry. The report gives an overview of the market's past and present condition, while also outlining expected market growth and trends in a user-friendly manner. Additionally, the report includes information on market volume, share, revenue, production, and sales.

Get a Sample Copy of the Nitrocellulose Market Report 2024-2030

Nitrocellulose Market Report Overview – BOL determining profit % of Defense contractors :ROFLMAO:​

Click to expand...
Unfortunately My world view is quite pessimistic at the time. We have three major conflicts at the same time Ukraine is hot The middle east and Taiwan is simmering. We are facing an election which will determine the head of the Western alliances.
f a weak president comes out of November then the other two above will probably go hot. We don't have the money to support Ukraine much less take on Iran and China. Compared to all the tests we will face the Nitrocellulose shortage is a small problem. This will only get worse. So stockpile your gun powder while you can get it. And Pray.
 
#247
As far as I know AR is not a major supplies if at all who ever is posting for them may be doing that but it can't be one of the regular participants hence it is not a regular padding an account. You in fact help by reacting to it
 
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