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View thread Contact supportLooks like you still need one of the Otis(?) cleaning kits in the round pouch for that round area on the lid.Finally rounded out the Mk11 kit. Happy is an understatement.
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Couple of questions here- I'll try and answer them.Looks like you still need one of the Otis(?) cleaning kits in the round pouch for that round area on the lid.
Do you know how many of the 'SEAL package' budrichard mentioned were produced?
Were they all white laser engraved with matching upper serial # marks and the Mk11 Mod 0 on the lower but the rest of the markings milled or stamped deeply like yours appear?
Were any completely laser engraved in a gold-ish or perhaps bronze(?) shade? Similar to the suppressor marks but maybe not quite that bright. The only pictures I could find years ago of in-use Mk11s appeared white or silver laser marked except for the one being shot by Major General Dell I believe which was a gold-ish or bronze shade it appears in the photo. The others clearly had to have been taped over before painting or had the paint removed so that the necessary numbers could be seen for checking in and out of the armory I guess. The vast majority of pics are of clone builds or airsoft.
lol, wow I'll say that's covered.Couple of questions here- I'll try and answer them.
-I have Otis kits covered.
-No clue on the kits. Knights has been historically pretty tight lipped about certain things. The early Mk11 years don't have a lot of info out there Re how/what got out.
-There is 3-4 different versions of Mk11s I've seen so far. Converted LWMs, All white engraved Vero, Mix-Match Vero engraving like mine (starting around mid 2002 from what I've found) and the later Titusville.
Some of my Otis kits lol
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May I ask how much you paid sir?Very interesting thread. This is my bring back I bought that is confirmed from Knights. My guess is this was made around 1995 as a SR25 and later updated to Mk11 with a new barrel and hand guard. Any thoughts?
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What surprised me was the decline in Lake City M118 Long Range quality after adoption around 1999. SOCOM specified Mark 11 rifles had to group sub-MOA on acceptance -- yet even out of bolt guns the government-supplied ammo could not. Kevin was very objective about it -- nobody can make a gun shoot mediocre ammo better.
There were a number of 2002 lots that should have gone straight to the dumpster. Probably due to the post 9-11 production surge. Some we got (surplus) at Camp Perry was only worth the brass.
With the IMR (4064) powder the shift in velocity is only 20 fps from 0 to 100 Deg C, with the Standard deviation in velocity over 40 rounds being 15 fps or less. In contrast the M118LR loaded with RE-15 powder will see a 50 fps rise in velocity for a 50 deg rise in temperature.
Winchester-Olin helped develop M118LR using WC-750 powder (produced by Saint Marks which Olin owned at the time).In 1999 the powder type was changed to Alliant Reloder 15. The new nominal charge was 44.3 gr. of RE-15 powder, which produced a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,750 fps from the 24 inch barrel of the M24/M40 with a velocity at 78 feet of approximately 2,700 fps. The reason for the change has not been definitely published ...
ATK got the contract to operate Lake City in 1999 (taking over from OLIN-Winchester)....What surprised me was the decline in Lake City M118 Long Range quality after adoption around 1999. SOCOM specified Mark 11 rifles had to group sub-MOA on acceptance -- yet even out of bolt guns the government-supplied ammo could not. Kevin was very objective about it -- nobody can make a gun shoot mediocre ammo better.
There were a number of 2002 lots that should have gone straight to the dumpster. Probably due to the post 9-11 production surge. Some we got (surplus) at Camp Perry was only worth the brass.
Irving carried an SR-25 that would become the Army's Mk 11 Mod 0.
In his memoirs, he calls it an SR-25, rather than the other name.Irving joined in 2004, the Mk11 Mod 0 well predates that.
The MK11 was a great gun within it's limitations.
Having been there in the 90’s, I can tell you the first 50 SR25’s sent to Crane were not even functional. At the range, they were quick fired into a dirt back stop at close range and each one short stroked after one or two mags and never ran again. After examination, gas leakage could be seen from the gas blocks onto the bbls. Also the bolt lugs were square not beveled on one side for proper locking and unlocking. Mags did not drop freely but had to be yanked out. Obviously, the gas blocks fit loosely and a new taper pin placement might be needed. The gas leak was fixed by applying RockSett. A poor fix. Opening the gas port on one bbl was suggested to see if that would help with the short strokes. That was flatly turned downed. The 50 non functioning 25’s were sent to Crane otherwise KAC would be charged a late fee.
Of course, no warning was given to Crane. Crane had them for about 60 days, sent them back with a list of changes they wanted made. Crane wanted the gas ports opened from .088 to .091 as we suggested. Those first rifles were junk. You would never waste money on one if you saw what I did. There was no proper “breaking in a bbl”. Unless burning out a Kreiger bbl with 250rds of ball ammo is “breaking in”. The 25’s sent back by Crane had bbls completely worn out, full of rust and copper. The bbls were re-coated black and re-used on civilian rifles. Some were sent back by the lucky few civilians that had bore scopes.
Etc…
The time-line posts above explain a lot. I signed the first Army Quality Deficiency Reports on the SR-25 and sent my rifles back to Crane for repair in late 1995-early 1996. They were gone two years.
Kevin Boland was very passionate about the guns when he was working for KAC, explaining my rifles were ancient and (fairly) did not reflect the quality standard during his tenure there.
What surprised me was the decline in Lake City M118 Long Range quality after adoption around 1999. SOCOM specified Mark 11 rifles had to group sub-MOA on acceptance -- yet even out of bolt guns the government-supplied ammo could not. Kevin was very objective about it -- nobody can make a gun shoot mediocre ammo better.
There were a number of 2002 lots that should have gone straight to the dumpster. Probably due to the post 9-11 production surge. Some we got (surplus) at Camp Perry was only worth the brass.
And Russ's unit locked theirs in a conex in the US and carried their bolt guns to Afg bc half would not function,
Somebody here helped that unit with the Army Times deal that eventually got theirs repaired.
And Chuck O withheld final payment until the last units were delivered and function tested.
RK hated Chuck.
RK had a booth at snipercraft, I made the "mistake" of asking him if he had talked to Chuck lately... hooo boy howdy...
Those guns malfunctions were not the 118lr back then, were bolt stops breaking, locking up the gun, suppressors loose enough to cause cap strikes, moa gun no can, 5 moa gun add can... and a couple of other small parts failures that were like mosquitoes around the camp fire, that were truly "just a bad run of small parts" inside a lot of good small parts....
The problems later, were the same problems Crane identified with the first batch and unfortunately they persisted the life of the system, in some part because of the inability to know which group of parts were bad and mixed in w good parts.
Guns had to go back just bc of a broken small part rather than a unit armorer replacing it.
and that took forever.
The first civilian unit we had, the upper failed, handguard threads cut too deep. Barrel and handguard came off in our hand...
A little more history:
My Steve Holland war story ("No shit, there I was ..."):A little more history:
I believe the shooter in the middle photo testing the early SR-25 is retired Master Sergeant Steve Holland. He started the 5th SF GRP Sniper Training Detachment in 1991 and was the lead on getting KAC to develop the SR-25. He is also the inventor of 6.8 SPC and the “Mod H” version of the Mk-12 stands for Holland.
My Steve Holland war story ("No shit, there I was ..."):
Steve came through the Military Free Fall School at Bragg when I worked there back in the 20th century (he was a staff sergeant then). If we had C-141 jet support for the last day's jumps we would coordinate in advance with the crew for a mass emergency exit (usually around 30-odd students and maybe eight to twelve instructors). Of course the students wouldn't know or have a clue.
When the C-141 loadmasters raise the internal cabin pressure door and open the clam-shells it's horrifically loud (it's already loud -- it's a four-engine jet). Instead of "Stand up" at two minutes out, "Move to the rear" at one minute, and "Stand by!" at 15 seconds the pilot would give violent rudder turns about 90 seconds out. The loadmasters would run back-and-forth with their flashlights almost in a panic. then consult with the jumpmaster, with the students getting that uncomfortable look. The pilot would give three long rings on the emergency bell (just like you maybe had in public school).
The jumpmaster would then give the hand-and-arm signals for "EVERYONE -- STAND UP! MOVE TO THE REAR!"
Instructors have to be double on-the-ball to make sure all equipment and ripcord pins are checked and safe. SFC Paul F. said when he got to Steve, all he heard was "HOLY MARY JESUS -- HOLY MARY JESUS" as he secured his goggles and assembled on the ramp.
The pilot would then stand on the emergency bell and the jumpmaster would signal "BAIL OUT! GO!" at the real release point.
Lots of fun and memorable to be in the air with forty of your new best friends bailing out of a jet to finish the course.
I would also be interested in any info on the BR or "SR-25k"Anybody seen any pics of the original battle rifle/ chopped gun prototypes?
Anybody seen any pics of the original battle rifle/ chopped gun prototypes?
I would also be interested in any info on the BR or "SR-25k"
I was actually referring to the SR-25 thats 3 rifles up from the one you pointed out. I’ve seen a photo from a book that said they were originally rifles that Delta armorers chopped down while in country.I think you are asking for pics of the early SR-25s with the shorter 20" barrel and smooth handguard, but before the RAS rail was developed?
That was called the SR-25 Special Military Lightweight (SpLW) Match rifle. Those date mid-to-late 1990s. SOCOM purchased 45 of them in 1999, along with 45 KAC suppressors, but pictures of them being used n service seem non-existent, or at least I have never seen such pictures.
That said, I found this picture somewhere on the Internet of the KAC 'museum' or display room, and one can be seen on that wall:
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I don't know anything about this rifle, but it looks like the late 1990s era SR-25 SpLW with the suppressor - note the round handguard.
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My poor man's Mk 11 Mod 0 replica uses the upper from one of those late 1990s era SR-25 SpLW rifles, but I am using an LMT lower.
Here you can see the original round hardguard and original gas block. Upper was later fitted with the proper Mk 11 rail and gas block.
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I've been slowly piecing it together since I got this salty old case in 2019, followed by an LMT lower. Hope to finish it this year.
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One interesting thing about that original Mk 11 case is that the "Q" prefix scope serial number is for a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50mm scope.
When I called NF about it, they said that serial number was from either 2005 or 2006. So this Mk 11 was apparently updated with a Nighforce scope shortly after they won their first contract with SOCOM, which was July 2005. Fwiw, my replica has one of those NF scopes too.
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It's been a long and expensive journey to get this far, but I still need a few things to finish it up. I have misplaced the KAC buffer and the front sight, but hopefully they will turn up with a little more searching...that what happened to this project that was purchased more or less piece by piece over a 5 year period...
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Hard to see, but this is a "P" prefix Mil-Spec NF scope, so it's serial number is likely from the 2005-06 era, similar to the old case.
One can also see the early shell deflector that was bolted to the rail. Got lucky with some basically free KAC rings last month.
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Here's my poor-man's LMT lower that started this project. Not correct, but I recently added that UID tag to slightly improve the aesthetics.
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Unfortunately the original Mk 11 KAC suppressors are discontinued and today's prices mean I'll never be able to purchase one to fully complete this Mk 11 Mod 0 project. (Still kicking myself for not biting the bullet back in 2019-20, and buying one for $1800, but I didn't have an upper at that time, and didn't realize what would happen to the prices over the past year or two). Anyhow, that's about all I know.