Secret Service Wants New Rifles

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saddlerocker

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Minuteman
Feb 23, 2013
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#1
www.twz.com

Secret Service Wants New Sniper Rifles

The new modular rifles will be able to quickly switch among four different cartridges and will feature a two-to-three-pound trigger pull.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

I would like to discuss/hear opinions on the technical aspects of the USSS Request for Proposals for a new rifle.
Not politics or anything that belongs in The Pit

I personally found the chamberings interesting, the possibility of a carbon wrapped barrel, required folding stock, and the requirement of a Tbac can should make people here feel warm and fuzzy 😁

Quick TLDR is ...

-Commercially available in serial production

-Must be quick change barrel (no barrel vice)

- Camberings and barrels for 300WM 26", 300PRC 27", 300NM 27", and .308 24"

-*Offered* as Left or right hand

-No heavier than 16lbs empty with no accessories

-Stainless steel barrels, but carbon wrapped stainless is acceptable

-Single-stage trigger that needs to “be free of both perceptible creep, as well as perceptible over-travel” and a “trigger pull [that] shall not measure less than 2.0 pounds, nor more than 3.0 pounds.”

-Whatever ‘chassis’ the barrel and the rest of the action sits in needs to have a folding buttstock that can also be extended or collapsed, and that comes with an adjustable cheekpiece for comb adjustment. It also needs to have a mixture of Picatinny-standard and RRS-Lock (also known as R-Lock) accessory rails for attaching scopes and other accessories

-“The rifle shall be supplied with a Thunder Beast Arms Magnus-SR 30 caliber Suppressor, with secondary retention non-timed brake (SR NTB),” the contracting document says. “If the rifle fails utilizing the requested suppressor a Thunder Beast Arms Ultra 9 shall be installed and tested. If the rifle fails with the Ultra 9 then the submission will be eliminated.”
 
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#7
I would assume the 308 is for trigger time and training.
The 300WM or maybe PRC as the standard, but then yeah, there should be 1 other as an "ELR" option, which would be the 300NM, no?
The PRC or WM seems redundant, yes.
 
#8
03machstock said:
3 extremely similar cartridges with a magnum bolt face and then 1 that takes a standard, all in .30 cal? Seems pretty odd, I’d think that would get confusing, and you’d want to spread your choices out more.
Click to expand...
It used to be 308, 300WM, and 338 LM.

300 NM was a game-changer and it displaced 338 LM. I don't know why both 300 WM and 300 PRC are needed.
 
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#13
4.3 The weapons system must be offered in a Right and Left-hand configuration.
Click to expand...
They're not saying swapable. AXSR, not sure the MRAD counts

problem for the MRAD
4.14.1 The weapon shall be supplied with means to mount a sling to the buttstock, the rear area of the receiver, and the handguard, via cup style quick-detach sling swivel.
Click to expand...
 
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#17
R_A_W said:
They're not saying swapable. AXSR, not sure the MRAD counts

problem for the MRAD
Click to expand...
Agreed.
I haven't seen a LH AXSR but the specs otherwise seem to be written around it.

Right on. We read the original RFP and they didn't say anything about swapping RH to LH. They specifically are wanting 10 complete rifles to evaluate with one LH.

They also listed extra "Chassis" in their spare parts list to accompany the base contract award. MRAD doesn't really have a separate chassis so again, while it may not specifically exclude the Barrett, they certainly didn't write the specs to it either.
 
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#21
R_A_W said:
LH AXSR
www.milehighshooting.com

Accuracy International: Left Hand AXSR .300 Norma Mag - 27", Dark Earth

AI : SR30N27MLHDE. The AXSR is based on Accuracy International's submission for the USSOCOM Advanced Sniper Rifle program (ASR).
www.milehighshooting.com www.milehighshooting.com
Click to expand...
Thanks.
I have been living under a rock. Then again $11K kits aren't usually on my radar.

That being the case, it is going to be tough for anybody to compete with A.I. on that solicitation.

USSS isn't even asking about $ at this point. They just want to see who can belly up to the evaluation requirements. Likely only one will be selected and then that "one" can name their price.

Schweeeet.
 
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#22
Terry Cross said:
Thanks.
I have been living under a rock. Then again $11K kits aren't usually on my radar.

That being the case, it is going to be tough for anybody to compete with A.I. on that solicitation.

USSS isn't even asking about $ at this point. They just want to see who can belly up to the evaluation requirements. Likely only one will be selected and then that "one" can name their price.

Schweeeet.
Click to expand...

You should put your hat in the ring
 
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#23
4.4 The offeror(s) must be the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) of the receiver
and bolt assembly
Click to expand...
@Terry Cross OEM actions coming from KMW when?

Remington has the RACS, but they're going to have to develop a QC receiver if they want to win .gov contracts, that 700 gravy train is coming to an end MSR, duh

Are there LH MSRs? That would make Remington the only other contender I can think of
 
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#26
R_A_W said:
@Terry Cross OEM actions coming from KMW when?

Remington has the RACS, but they're going to have to develop a QC receiver if they want to win .gov contracts, that 700 gravy train is coming to an end MSR, duh

So Remington is the only other contender
Click to expand...
LOL.
Nope.

TBH, even if I could, I wouldn't.
If I had USSS as a client, the drama and bureaucracy would be such a PITA, it would force me to walk away from most of my other loyal customers and that ain't gonna happen.

The main solicitation is 44 pages long. About 30 of that is small print, horse shit hoops and clauses.
The only way to come out ahead on that deal is to have a big enough company to handle the .gov ass kissing requirements and absorb the cost of weathering the eval phase. A.I. is big enough and the specs are written for them to be a walk on that is hard to contest. They are used to dealing with .gov entities from all over so no big deal for them. Once they have met the requirements, they can name their price to recoup their expenses and have a handsome margin.
 
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#27
kthomas said:
It's likely not a matter of "need".

I'm not too familiar with government budgets, but it could be one of those "spend it or lose it" sort of deals.
Click to expand...

IMG_5469.jpeg
 
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#34
Mauser48 said:
Maybe their money is better spent on binoculars.

But seriously it sounds like they're naming an axsr and just posting that as a formality. Although they did say single stage trigger. Maybe Cadex Kraken as well?
Click to expand...
If they can request and purchase non-production scope variants along with other exotic peripherals, I'm pretty sure they can $wing a non-productuon single stage trigger.

X4 on the binoculars, lol
 
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#35
Terry Cross said:
If they can request and purchase non-production scope variants along with other exotic peripherals, I'm pretty sure they can $wing a non-productuon single stage trigger.

X4 on the binoculars, lol
Click to expand...
All it takes is money. In pretty much any line of work big contracts are not all they're cracked up to be and usually just result in a project you can't wait to get out of. I can only imagine a government contract...
 
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#38
giumau1 said:
If it has to be four, Why not 338 LM, 300Wm, 7 PRC and 6.5 CM? If they want a multicaliber with all bases covered...
Click to expand...
Assuming the choices are based on rounds currently in service in LE and MIL. Which equates to more diverse rounds being produced for their applications

Soft tissue, barrier rounds etc. If you stick to the rounds in service you have more options that generally have gone through extensive testing already. Availability would likely be higher to if they’re being produced for mil contracts as well
 
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#40
Nik H said:
No left hand version
Click to expand...
DT also seems to me it’s one of those rifles where either it works for you or it doesn’t. Being a bullpup. I haven’t handled one but I have a Tavor X95 and bullpups don’t fit or work for everyone. Probably a better bet going with a traditional chassis style rifle.

I do think the double stack mags like AI uses are a better bet as well. 10 rounder same size as a AICS style 5 round and can be loaded from the top without having to be removed from the rifle. I’m not sure if it would be needed but if you wanted to quickly swap to an AP or barrier round you could load it through the top while still on the gun. Theoretically
 
#42
Final thought, I saw where someone mentioned FDE Cerekoted rifles. Forgetting one thing, in this current universe, all must be diverse. So, some will be FDE, some tiger stripe, some all black and some pink. Pretty much answers the 300 WM and the 300 PRC question, diversity, trumps common sense and qualifications. (NO presidential or political pun intended or even wanted).
 
#43
Yeah, I guess there is not much to discuss.
They want AXSRs.
The "requirement" of those 4 calibers may just be to further narrow it down to the AI only.
Hell, even the barrel lengths required happen to be what AI offers.

Do the current mk13 mod7 rifles use Surefire cans?
 
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#44
saddlerocker said:
Yeah, I guess there is not much to discuss.
They want AXSRs.
The "requirement" of those 4 calibers may just be to further narrow it down to the AI only.
Click to expand...
Like the job posting requirements here at work:

"Must know blah blah blah.
Must be proficient in XYZ.
Must be named Tim Smith.
Must have blah blah certification."
 
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#45
kthomas said:
It's likely not a matter of "need".

I'm not too familiar with government budgets, but it could be one of those "spend it or lose it" sort of deals.
Click to expand...

Likely possible with a 4th quarter FY solicitation (if it appears the case here).

In my dungeon days in the Fed gub'ment, we went from being frugal the first three quarters to blowing whatever we had left in the 4th. Otherwise justification for reducing your budget for the next FY is sitting right out there.

And when I say we blew money, it was one of those things where you found a project that often wasn't needed...but happened to work and fit within the necessary requirements for spending ____ of dollars.

the old Federal GAO (Government Accountability Office) is as blind as the justice system.
 
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#46
cas6969 said:
Like the job posting requirements here at work:

"Must know blah blah blah.
Must be proficient in XYZ.
Must be named Tim Smith.
Must have blah blah certification."
Click to expand...

Often 'insiders' will have already picked a particular system, and just write parameter requirements around that system as a formality because it is necessary.

They do it with jobs too. Retire from the military on Friday and show back up to work in a suit on Monday for the GS job they created.
 
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#47
saddlerocker said:
Yeah, I guess there is not much to discuss.
They want AXSRs.
The "requirement" of those 4 calibers may just be to further narrow it down to the AI only.
Hell, even the barrel lengths required happen to be what AI offers.

Do the current mk13 mod7 rifles use Surefire cans?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what suppressor is standard to the Mk13 Mod7 kit but USSS is currently already running TBA cans on their custom 300 WIn Mags.
 
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#48
308pirate said:
Or narrow it down to two: 308 and one magnum.
Click to expand...
Agreed. For sure better than their current RFP guidelines.

Even better would be sticking to one of the big 30s only.
Keep it simple, more robust and less likely to introduce user induced errors.

They have already shown that they have no qualms about using custom ammo.
With that in mind, they could purchase guns in 300WinMag, 300PRC or 300 Norma and simply cover all their bases with ammo variants.

The little kid in me thinks the multi-caliber AX and MRAD kits are sexy and awesome but the small percentage of adult in me firmly believes that usually leads to less bang for the buck and most of the kit never being used. The old adage of "Beware of the man who has just one gun" has several positive realities.
 
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